Liberty Safe Gave Feds Access Code to Gun Safe During Raid on January 6 Protester

[124gr9mm 859]

I think it's funny that a woke corporation like Apple refused to provide Fed's a backdoor to their product when Fed's asked, but Liberty Safes quickly/easily gives out the code to their safes:

 

Liberty Safe Confirms They Gave Feds Access Code to Gun Safe During Raid on January 6 Protester

Liberty Safe, "America's #1 heavy-duty home and gun safe manufacturer," according to their website, issued a statement late Tuesday night confirming that they'd given the FBI an access code to a customer's gun safe in response to a request on August 30, 2023.

 

https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2023/09/06/liberty-safe-caved-gave-fbi-access-code-january-6-n2163468

 

The statement from Liberty:

"

On August 30, 2023, Liberty Safe was contacted by the FBI requesting the access code to the safe of an individual for whom they had a warrant to search their property. Our company protocol is to provide access codes to law enforcement if a warrant grants them access to a property. After receiving the request, we received proof of the valid warrant, and only then did we provide them with an access code. Liberty Safe had no knowledge of any of the details surrounding the investigation at the time.

Liberty Safe is devoted to protecting the personal property and 2nd amendment rights of our customers and has repeatedly denied requests for access codes without a warrant in the past. We do not give out combinations without proper legal documentation being provided by authorities.

We regularly update our policies to ensure both compliance with federal and state law and reasonable consumer privacy protections within the law. First and foremost, Liberty Safe is committed to preserving our customers’ rights, and we will remain unwavering in those values."

 

I won't be purchasing their products.

 

 

[45Doll 5,877]

At least we know who's their priority.

[voyager9 3,434]

It’s more alarming that they have access codes at all.  

[45Doll 5,877]

By the way, my Zanotti Armor safe has a classic tumbler lock with key, and they throw away the combination after shipment.

I know the feds have a blow torch, but they wouldn't get any help from Zanotti.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

10 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

I think it's funny that a woke corporation like Apple refused to provide Fed's a backdoor to their product when Fed's asked, but Liberty Safes quickly/easily gives out the code to their safes:

There is a big difference between giving the FBI unrestricted backdoor access to Apple's platform and complying with a lawfully issued warrant to access a single safe.

What would you have Liberty Safe do? Earn themselves a prosecution instead?

[glockncolts 50]

Fuck the FEDS. Let them get it open themselves.........

[124gr9mm 859]

17 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

There is a big difference between giving the FBI unrestricted backdoor access to Apple's platform and complying with a lawfully issued warrant to access a single safe.

What would you have Liberty Safe do? Earn themselves a prosecution instead?

Apple refused a request to break into an individual phone.  The Fed's went back and forth many times, asking first for the ability to do it themselves to sending the pone to Apple to have them do it.  Apple refused.

Liberty Safes did nothing to "earn themselves a prosecution".  They have a corporate policy that states they will roll over to any request that accompanies a warrant.  That policy was not built out of a court decision/challenge, it's just what they have in place.

Liberty can do whatever they feel is in their best interest.

I will never purchase one of their products.

 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

5 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Apple refused a request to break into an individual phone.  The Fed's went back and forth many times, asking first for the ability to do it themselves to sending the pone to Apple to have them do it.  Apple refused.

Ah - that case. IIRC Apple said it wasn't possible. I.E. they couldn't do it even if they wanted to.

[124gr9mm 859]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Ah - that case. IIRC Apple said it wasn't possible. I.E. they couldn't do it even if they wanted to.

Yeah, that was their corporate statement.

My neighbors 17 year-old kid jailbreaks old iPhones for fun, so you have to weigh the corporate statement for what it is...

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 minute ago, 124gr9mm said:

Yeah, that was their corporate statement.

My neighbors 17 year-old kid jailbreaks old iPhones for fun, so you have to weigh the corporate statement for what it is...

Jailbreaking and breaking into a phone are completely different things. You need to be able to get into the phone in order to jailbreak it, and usually it will wipe the contents of the phone in the process as it is usually installing a different version of the OS.

[124gr9mm 859]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Jailbreaking and breaking into a phone are completely different things. You need to be able to get into the phone in order to jailbreak it, and usually it will wipe the contents of the phone in the process as it is usually installing a different version of the OS.

I was just using the ability of a teenager jailbreaking as an example that technology like iPhones are historically not bullet proof.

I find it beyond reason to believe that Apple did/does not have the ability to get into ANY iPhone they want.  I cannot prove that, but I've worked with enough people in technology roles to know that people who create technology always have ways to back-door their way in.

I'll create another thread if you'd like to debate the Apple scenario (or we can PM).

As for Liberty they will not be getting any of my business.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

so wait? their safes can be opened by one other than the owner? that's kinda scary, and not truly secure. also, i guess i'll never buy one of their products now......

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 minute ago, 1LtCAP said:

so wait? their safes can be opened by one other than the owner? that's kinda scary, and not truly secure. also, i guess i'll never buy one of their products now......

It's not very surprising. Most electronic 'security' devices have a manufacturer's access code. It makes it easier to service the device if that's ever needed. Some companies will use a single code for all devices (so when it gets into the wild, there is no security at all) and some will use a different code for each device and store it with the serial number in their database, in case it is needed.

Others don't build a backdoor at all, and if you have an issue, there is a reset procedure which can be used to wipe the device and start over. This will usually need physical access to the brains of the device, which for a safe, should be accessible only from inside the safe.

There are plenty of customers who would be upset to hear that their $5000 safe needs to be cut open, potentially damaging the contents worth perhaps many times more than that, so we find ourselves in the situation where the manufacturer keeps a backdoor, just in case. The downside is that they can be legally compelled to give up that backdoor or face the wrath of the government.

[124gr9mm 859]

A friend shared this with me:

[1LtCAP 4,264]

 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

4 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

It's not very surprising. Most electronic 'security' devices have a manufacturer's access code. It makes it easier to service the device if that's ever needed. Some companies will use a single code for all devices (so when it gets into the wild, there is no security at all) and some will use a different code for each device and store it with the serial number in their database, in case it is needed.

Others don't build a backdoor at all, and if you have an issue, there is a reset procedure which can be used to wipe the device and start over. This will usually need physical access to the brains of the device, which for a safe, should be accessible only from inside the safe.

There are plenty of customers who would be upset to hear that their $5000 safe needs to be cut open, potentially damaging the contents worth perhaps many times more than that, so we find ourselves in the situation where the manufacturer keeps a backdoor, just in case. The downside is that they can be legally compelled to give up that backdoor or face the wrath of the government.

i;m ok with them having that backdoor to help custgomers. the problem lies with them providing (probable) criminals the code to get in it.

[silverado427 10,730]

[maintenanceguy 510]

Sounds like there was a warrant to search the home.  I didn't see anything about Liberty Safe being served with a warrant to provide the code.  A corporate policy to not provide the code to anyone except the safe owner would make me more likely to purchase their products.  If some judge served Liberty with a warrant, that's different - they the have to comply.

At least they should remove the Statute of Liberty from their advertising.

[siderman 1,138]

8 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said:

Sounds like there was a warrant to search the home.  I didn't see anything about Liberty Safe being served with a warrant to provide the code.  A corporate policy to not provide the code to anyone except the safe owner would make me more likely to purchase their products.  If some judge served Liberty with a warrant, that's different - they the have to comply.

At least they should remove the Statute of Liberty from their advertising.

Just gonna post the same sentiment. Liberty corporate policy is to just roll over. And now it's open that there's another load of data, consumers safe combos, ready to be hacked or hijacked by crooks or/and law agencies.

 

 

[silverado427 10,730]

[1LtCAP 4,264]

5 hours ago, siderman said:

Just gonna post the same sentiment. Liberty corporate policy is to just roll over. And now it's open that there's another load of data, consumers safe combos, ready to be hacked or hijacked by crooks or/and law agencies.

 

 

little redundant there

so i guess what we need now, is a safe room with no access to it other than by the owner. none. nada. zilch.

 

 reinforce that bitch.

[Cheflife15 455]

That poor lady in the classifieds...

[124gr9mm 859]

They're already backpedaling:

 

 

 

 

Day late and a dollar short.

I'll never buy or recommend their products...

[FishNHard 145]

Guess there employees better update there zip recruiter resume's.

[Scorpio64 5,156]

27 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Day late and a dollar short.

What is interesting to me is their speed in coming up with a solution to the problem of phederal phishing trips.  That in and of itself is telling, there had to have been a severe backlash.  The phones at LS must have been off the hook all day and night dealing with outrage.  I think the conservative, or at least moderate anti-bs cancel culture is finally catching on.  Corporations are FINALLY aware they are not too big to fail and can be Budweiser'd.

 It's really sad that all that needs to be done to get into your safe is one unsubstantiated accusation and a judge that will summarily issue warrants for fishing trips. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

Okay. Others have said it and I'll say it again.  If the FBI had a search warrant they can look everywhere whatever was listed in the warrant could be hidden. Providing the code was a way to prevent damage to whatever was in the safe.

[kc17 622]

8 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

They're already backpedaling:

 

They had also turned off comments to the original post. Don't know about the new one, haven't looked yet.

[voyager9 3,434]

Certainly their original policy was concerning but we should give them some credit for fixing it.  Even if it’s only due to the severe backlash, the end result is a better policy and more customer control.  That’s a good thing.  

[kc17 622]

6 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Okay. Others have said it and I'll say it again.  If the FBI had a search warrant they can look everywhere whatever was listed in the warrant could be hidden. Providing the code was a way to prevent damage to whatever was in the safe.

I'm not LEO or a lawyer. So I will not go down the road of what the FBI had the legal right to do or open. I don't think any of us know with certainty what the warrant said either. 

Much of the outrage, is the fact that Liberty had the codes to get into customer's safes and quickly gave that information out. I think many people were not even aware Liberty had codes to get in. Liberty's social media presence would lead someone to believe they would not so quickly cave in and hand out the codes. 

Compare this to how Apple responded when the Feds wanted access to the data on terrorist's cell phones. Apple did not comply. 

Additionally, people were reporting that Liberty refused to help them gain access to their safe when they lost the code. Obviously, we do not know the full story in those cases. I also saw a link to a news article where Fire Fighters had to cut into a Liberty Safe after a child became locked in one on a showroom floor. Of course, it's possible nobody thought to call Liberty for assistance. But, maybe they did and were told they didn't have the codes?

[1LtCAP 4,264]

10 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

That poor lady in the classifieds...

was thinking the same thing.....

10 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

They're already backpedaling:

 

 

 

 

Day late and a dollar short.

I'll never buy or recommend their products...

too late. damage is done. they could give me one of their safes for free, and i'd list it for sale