Most Carry Qualification Requirements Erased 9-17-23

[xXxplosive 824]

passing is not the issue.......keep repeating after you've completed it once and passed and $$$ are the issue. Been a life long resident, everything here comes with a price tag attached to it....another 200 $$$ to the State for something I already paid for 3 months ago.....Huh.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Topics merged, Title updated.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

they should've made the state lose the requalification requirement.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i mean.....there is no right to a dl, but they don't make us requalify for that.....

[124gr9mm 859]

This is very good news. 

Hopefully it's a little momentum heading into the other pending litigation...

[Krdshrk 3,877]

25 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

This is very good news. 

Hopefully it's a little momentum heading into the other pending litigation...

Is it though?  it seems like a compromise.  The requirements were so overreaching before we could have pushed harder to get it removed completely - now we have less leverage.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

and they're STILL getting away with moving the goalposts
 

[b47356 21]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

i mean.....there is no right to a dl, but they don't make us requalify for that.....

Don't give them any ideas.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

i mean.....there is no right to a dl, but they don't make us requalify for that.....

Driving is a privilege.  "They" should start taxing the religious organizations and see where that goes.  Whole different ball game there.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

8 minutes ago, b47356 said:

Don't give them any ideas.

how about voting? A malicious or ill informed vote is a thousand times more dangerous than a firearm.......

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I don't get the talk about needing to re-qualify.  As I understand it, if the first qual was substantially equivalent, there should be no reason to repeat it.

 

[voyager9 3,434]

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

Is it though?  it seems like a compromise.  The requirements were so overreaching before we could have pushed harder to get it removed completely - now we have less leverage.

Overton window..

[bennj 215]

2 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

and they're STILL getting away with moving the goalposts
 

Our applications were approved by our respective PDs, we were permitted to carry by our county court judges, and later (after 12/22/22) by our local PDs. Why do we have to re-qualify because Murphy/ Plankton said (to paraphrase The King and I) "let it be re-written, let it be re-done"?

[xXxplosive 824]

they love charging $$$$ for you to excercise your Constitutional Right as a US citizen deemed so by the USSC.....why would they care....and that's the best that our representatives here in NJ can do......past performance proves that......omo.

[JohnnyB 4,326]

If you took HCQ1 or HCQ2 under the more stringent standards, IMHO, you don't need to requalify! 

[xXxplosive 824]

Your opinion doesn't matter, nor does mine,,,,tell that to your chief after they post the new NJSP requirements............they needed to accept what's been already done according to their past directive and list of ranges and personnel / instructors that they had already approved.....that's what the NJCAAAAP or whatever should have fought for, not a compromise...this is no win, just a lowering of the standard...what's next on the agenda....omo.

[bennj 215]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

If you took HCQ1 or HCQ2 under the more stringent standards, IMHO, you don't need to requalify! 

Maybe so, as long as holster draw was included, according to the new form. 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

43 minutes ago, bennj said:

Maybe so, as long as holster draw was included, according to the new form. 

The HQC1 and HQC2 cof required holster draw. You can't have done them without it. 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

so....with this new bs......what's the verdict? the course i took was substantially identical to the new requirements, and i shot perfect score. instructor says i'm(as are his other students that passed) good to go. so......if that's the case, do we still need to submit that sp182....or whatever the number of the form is........to my towns pd?

 

 this is the part that's got me worried. paperwork. that's what fooks everyone up sooner or later in anything.

[xXxplosive 824]

Hmmm...............

[124gr9mm 859]

21 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

so....with this new bs......what's the verdict? the course i took was substantially identical to the new requirements, and i shot perfect score. instructor says i'm(as are his other students that passed) good to go. so......if that's the case, do we still need to submit that sp182....or whatever the number of the form is........to my towns pd?

 

 this is the part that's got me worried. paperwork. that's what fooks everyone up sooner or later in anything.

To me it seems that part of the new communication is making the qual less 'difficult', and part is kicking things down the road to December (presumably to a point when another update from the courts comes down.

If you've taken your qual already then it was done under a more stringent course of fire.

[Xtors 333]

Seems to me they have now specified exactly what is meant by substantially equivalent and if you didn't shoot an HCQ with holster draw (e.g., went to Shooters) then you have to do it again. To whit:

Substantially Equivalent Courses. An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if the prior course include each of the following:

1. A minimum of 50 scored rounds per participant.

2. Minimum passage score of 80% using an FBI type Q target.

3. At least 10 rounds must be from the 15, 10, 7, 5, and 3 yard lines each. If fewer than 10 rounds were fired from those distances, the remaining rounds must have been fired from farther distances.

4. The participant must demonstrate safe holstering and unholstering during the shooting course, which must include safely drawing the weapon from a secured holster before firing at each of the required distances and re- holstering after completing the round.

5. The participant must demonstrate proficient and safe reloading during the shooting course.

No substantially similar courses completed after the CCARE Protocol is issued will be accepted.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

The "requirements" for carry should be similar to any other Constitutional Right.

Everything they are doing is placing conditions on that right.  First they set ridiculous conditions.  Then they did us a "favor" by reducing those ridiculous conditions slightly.  

IMHO the "requirements" should be that the applicant is of legal age and they have nothing disqualifying them (felon, mentally unstable, addiction, etc) that would exempt then from purchasing a firearm.  And a nominal fee ($25?).  License should be good for minimum of 5 years. 

That's it.  Anything else we should be fitting tooth and nail.  

They can strongly encourage additional training.  The State can make non-mandatory videos about safety etc that they again encourage all applicants to view.

Keep fighting until the 2nd Amendment in NJ isn't followed by numerous  conditions which must be meet for you to exercise it.

 

[CMJeepster 2,778]

1 minute ago, gleninjersey said:

License should be good for life.

FIFY.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

2 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

FIFY.

Honestly it should be Constitutional Carry.  Shouldn't even be a licensing scheme by the State.  It's a Natural Right.  Full stop.  Mic drop.

[124gr9mm 859]

56 minutes ago, Xtors said:

Seems to me they have now specified exactly what is meant by substantially equivalent and if you didn't shoot an HCQ with holster draw (e.g., went to Shooters) then you have to do it again. To whit:

Substantially Equivalent Courses. An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if the prior course include each of the following:

1. A minimum of 50 scored rounds per participant.

2. Minimum passage score of 80% using an FBI type Q target.

3. At least 10 rounds must be from the 15, 10, 7, 5, and 3 yard lines each. If fewer than 10 rounds were fired from those distances, the remaining rounds must have been fired from farther distances.

4. The participant must demonstrate safe holstering and unholstering during the shooting course, which must include safely drawing the weapon from a secured holster before firing at each of the required distances and re- holstering after completing the round.

5. The participant must demonstrate proficient and safe reloading during the shooting course.

No substantially similar courses completed after the CCARE Protocol is issued will be accepted.

We'll see.

It looks like the admin requirement is submission of SP 182 Version.

That form (both versions) reference "HQC2 (modified)" as meeting the requirement, so if you have either form submitted it seems like you'd be good.

Waiting for the 'experts' to opine...

[xXxplosive 824]

no expert, but waiting for the thousands who have already received their permits flood their local chiefs with the same Cert. Documents again that they have initially completed an HQC1 or HQC2 COF....as some one already said, these courses are more stringent and require holster draw if you took one......But.......just who is going to make that decision ..............omo.

[YankeeSC 1,204]

1 hour ago, Xtors said:

Seems to me they have now specified exactly what is meant by substantially equivalent and if you didn't shoot an HCQ with holster draw (e.g., went to Shooters) then you have to do it again. To whit:

Substantially Equivalent Courses. An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if the prior course include each of the following:

1. A minimum of 50 scored rounds per participant.

2. Minimum passage score of 80% using an FBI type Q target.

3. At least 10 rounds must be from the 15, 10, 7, 5, and 3 yard lines each. If fewer than 10 rounds were fired from those distances, the remaining rounds must have been fired from farther distances.

4. The participant must demonstrate safe holstering and unholstering during the shooting course, which must include safely drawing the weapon from a secured holster before firing at each of the required distances and re- holstering after completing the round.

5. The participant must demonstrate proficient and safe reloading during the shooting course.

No substantially similar courses completed after the CCARE Protocol is issued will be accepted.

FWIW this is essentially what is required by South Carolina.

[xXxplosive 824]

Who cares about how SC regulates the US Constitution down there.......really.

[YankeeSC 1,204]

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

Who cares about how SC regulates the US Constitution down there.......really.

The Supreme Court.