Whoa...... COSTCO.

[xXxplosive 824]

UPDATE 7:57 PM: “On Sunday, January 21st, at approximately 1pm, Brick Township Police responded to 465 Rt 70 (Costco) for an accidental discharge of a firearm,” police told TLS. “The owner of the firearm sustained a non-life threatening injury.

[High Exposure 5,664]

 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

there is no such thing as "an accidental" discharge. negligent.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

48 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

there is no such thing as "an accidental" discharge. negligent.

Actually, 12 year old boys have accidental discharges.

It's their older brothers, fathers and uncles that have negligent discharges.

[High Exposure 5,664]

6 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

there is no such thing as "an accidental" discharge. negligent.

That’s a pretty narrow view.

I’m not saying this wasn’t negligence, I’m saying it may in fact be accidental.

Guns are mechanical. Parts can break or not work as intended. It doesn’t happen often, but guns can go off with no human interaction of the firing controls - ergo - an accidental discharge. I have seen it happen.

Heck, there has been a recent “rash” of Sig 320’s that have gone off in holsters with no one touching them. That may be what this is. If so, that’s not negligence.

Edited January 22 by High Exposure
Edited for clarity

[xXxplosive 824]

guns going off with no human interaction.....where, when.

[High Exposure 5,664]

There’s been a dozen or so instances of a holstered sig 320 going off without being touch by a person in the last year alone.

About 15 years ago I had a Springfield TRP 1911 that had a problem with the sear or disconnect (some MIM part chipped/cracked). When I dropped the slide on a new mag, the hammer fell as the slide went forward and the pistol discharged. Luckily I was at the range when it happened and not loading the pistol at home. I was following all 4 firearms safety rules at the time - treating it as if it was loaded, pointing the muzzle down-range at a target I intended to shoot, and I never touched the trigger.  Those circumstances are not a negligent discharge. That was purely a mechanical failure and “accidental”.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 minute ago, High Exposure said:

About 15 years ago I had a Springfield TRP 1911 that had a problem with the sear or disconnect (some MIM part chipped/cracked). When I dropped the slide on a new mag, the hammer fell as the slide went forward and the pistol discharged. Luckily I was at the range when it happened and not loading the pistol at home. I was following all 4 firearms safety rules at the time - treating it as if it was loaded, pointing the muzzle down-range at a target I intended to shoot, and I never touched the trigger.  Those circumstances are not a negligent discharge. That was purely a mechanical failure and “accidental”.

This sort of thing does indeed happen. My then GF was at an IDPA match using a borrowed Kimber 1911. When at the safe table (no ammo present) she was unbagging the gun to put it in her holster. Part of the process is to check clear, point the gun in the designated safe direction and pull the trigger on an empty chamber. A fraction of a second after closing the slide in the middle of this procedure, the hammer dropped without any contact with the trigger.

We called over the owner of the gun and was able to repeat the hammer follow issue approx. 1 time out of 3 closing the slide. Needless to say, the owner was horrified they had loaned a faulty gun and it was not used until it had been to a gunsmith to be fixed.

If it had happened when loading to run a stage, it would have resulted in an accidental discharge.

[Bklynracer 1,265]

2 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

guns going off with no human interaction.....where, when.

New Mexico, Where they we’re filming Rust, ask Baldwin, he swears that’s what happened.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

8 hours ago, njJoniGuy said:

Actually, 12 year old boys have accidental discharges.

It's their older brothers, fathers and uncles that have negligent discharges.

bbaahahahahaaahahaha

3 hours ago, High Exposure said:

That’s a pretty narrow view.

I’m not saying this wasn’t negligence, I’m saying it may in fact be accidental.

Guns are mechanical. Parts can break or not work as intended. It doesn’t happen often, but guns can go off with no human interaction of the firing controls - ergo - an accidental discharge. I have seen it happen.

Heck, there has been a recent “rash” of Sig 320’s that have gone off in holsters with no one touching them. That may be what this is. If so, that’s not negligence.

i wasn't thinking of the 320 thing when i typed that. but....just like i don't believe car crashes are accidents.....i believe the same with this. of course i realize that there are instances when something could break causing a true accident.......it's not common though.

 

'cept for the sig of course

[1LtCAP 4,264]

2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

There’s been a dozen or so instances of a holstered sig 320 going off without being touch by a person in the last year alone.

About 15 years ago I had a Springfield TRP 1911 that had a problem with the sear or disconnect (some MIM part chipped/cracked). When I dropped the slide on a new mag, the hammer fell as the slide went forward and the pistol discharged. Luckily I was at the range when it happened and not loading the pistol at home. I was following all 4 firearms safety rules at the time - treating it as if it was loaded, pointing the muzzle down-range at a target I intended to shoot, and I never touched the trigger.  Those circumstances are not a negligent discharge. That was purely a mechanical failure and “accidental”.

funny you mention the 1911 with a problem.

 

 last week. on patrol live. in daytona beach. they had a "shots fired" call. they get there. pretty dam big hole in the window. they did their "overkill for the cameras" thing, and then found out it was the guy upstairs. with a 1911 in 10mm. he claimed it just went off in the holster. he was drunk, and admitted he was drunk. i'm pretty sure he was messing with it. got no way of knowing for sure though.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

but i got a question on this part.......

2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

.

About 15 years ago I had a Springfield TRP 1911 that had a problem with the sear or disconnect (some MIM part chipped/cracked). When I dropped the slide on a new mag, the hammer fell as the slide went forward and the pistol discharged.

i thought 1911's have a block in the way of the firing pin that would prevent it from hitting the primer even if the hammer dropped unless the trigger is also pressed?

 

 i'm not trying to question what you said.....i've just never had a 1911 that far apart and was told about that block.....

[NJ_Sig 37]

As far as I know the P320 ND’s were found to be an improper holster issue

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

but i got a question on this part.......

i thought 1911's have a block in the way of the firing pin that would prevent it from hitting the primer even if the hammer dropped unless the trigger is also pressed?

 

 i'm not trying to question what you said.....i've just never had a 1911 that far apart and was told about that block.....

Some do, some don't. The original didn't. Some S&W and Kimbers use a variation of the Schwartz system which is deactivated by the grip safety. On the Colt Mark IV/Series 80 type guns it is deactivated via a linkage by the trigger. 

On S&W E-series guns, they did away with the Schwartz system and used a lightweight firing pin which can't transfer enough energy to ignite the primer if dropped.

[raz-0 1,259]

On 1/22/2024 at 3:04 PM, High Exposure said:

There’s been a dozen or so instances of a holstered sig 320 going off without being touch by a person in the last year alone.

About 15 years ago I had a Springfield TRP 1911 that had a problem with the sear or disconnect (some MIM part chipped/cracked). When I dropped the slide on a new mag, the hammer fell as the slide went forward and the pistol discharged. Luckily I was at the range when it happened and not loading the pistol at home. I was following all 4 firearms safety rules at the time - treating it as if it was loaded, pointing the muzzle down-range at a target I intended to shoot, and I never touched the trigger.  Those circumstances are not a negligent discharge. That was purely a mechanical failure and “accidental”.

Site me some examples. Every one I have seen has gone off while something was interacting with the holstered gun in some way or the trigger has been messed with significantly (likely by someone who does not grasp the limits of the safety mechanisms with regard to dicking with the trigger).  

The only one I know of that even comes close to "was in the holster" was 1) subjected to significant contact during a physical struggle, and 2) in a light bearing safariland holster that has a history of issues with multiple brands of firearms and NDs. 

There was a USPSA incident where the headline was it just went off. The details form actual attendees were that nobody was looking at the exact moment, so they decided to blame the gun. But it was proximal to when the competitor would be handling a loaded gun. 

There is only one incident that I know of that the gun "just went off" and it was a legitimate accurate description of what happened. That was an M17 with (i believe ) the army. the root cause was that a foreign body entered the gun and interfered with the operation of it. The operator of the firearm decided if you push the trigger hard enough it will have to shoot. This resulted in damage to the drop safety tab on the striker and to the striker/sear interface. There was a subsequent AD due to having effectively disabled the drop safety.  That was a few years ago now though. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

I gave you a specific example of my 1911 that would fire without any input on the trigger. 

I don’t have specific examples re: Sig 320 recorded. I do have memory of quite a few instances where it occurred over the last 18 months or so (as well as an alarming number of self destructing Sigs).

I don’t own a 320, nor will I ever - so I have no need or desire to research or catalogue these events. I just know that every month or so there is another story of a gun going off without the user touching the trigger in the spotlight. I also noted that they are almost always Sig 320s and rarely/never Glocks, HK, CZ, etc…. (Although - If it was not a mechanical issue with a specific make/model and a matter of improper handling/storage by a human you would think it would be a fairly general cross section of brands having this issue)

The point I was making was the fact that there is such a thing as an accidental discharge vs negligent discharge. That guns are manufactured by the hands of man and are in fact apt to malfunction at times at no fault to the shooter/owners negligence.

[xXxplosive 824]

Hmmm......back to the Revolver.....nah.....never heard of guns just going off......sound like some liberal ploy...omo.

[High Exposure 5,664]

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

Hmmm......back to the Revolver.....nah.....never heard of guns just going off......sound like some liberal ploy...omo.

Years ago I investigated the accidental discharge of a revolver that went off in a dry cleaners front lobby. It was in a holster (holster looked like a leather wallet that completetly covered the trigger of a hammerless DAO revolver) in the back pocket of a pair of jeans of a RPO. Video footage showed there were no hands or other badly parts anywhere near the gun when it went off. The guy was just standing there in line and the gun went bang. You could see the bottom of his pocket blow out and the tile floor chip. Never could figure out how it happened.

[xXxplosive 824]

SPOOKS.......

[raz-0 1,259]

2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

I gave you a specific example of my 1911 that would fire without any input on the trigger. 

I don’t have specific examples re: Sig 320 recorded. I do have memory of quite a few instances where it occurred over the last 18 months or so (as well as an alarming number of self destructing Sigs).

I don’t own a 320, nor will I ever - so I have no need or desire to research or catalogue these events. I just know that every month or so there is another story of a gun going off without the user touching the trigger in the spotlight. I also noted that they are almost always Sig 320s and rarely/never Glocks, HK, CZ, etc…. (Although - If it was not a mechanical issue with a specific make/model and a matter of improper handling/storage by a human you would think it would be a fairly general cross section of brands having this issue)

The point I was making was the fact that there is such a thing as an accidental discharge vs negligent discharge. That guns are manufactured by the hands of man and are in fact apt to malfunction at times at no fault to the shooter/owners negligence.

I was asking about the p320. And every month it's a bunch of rehashing old shit for the most part. This won't go away until the lawyers stop getting paid to try and win those cases they keep losing. But they keep beating that horse because the pre-disconnector models had an actual problem. 

As for the general problem, The light bearing holsters is a general problem. Safariland has several notifications for incidents with glocks on their website. Glock leg is a phrase because there were general problems with glocks and NDs. It just happened pre social media where you weren't subject to some idiot dropping rage bait for clicks over and over. Once you get past glock and sig, you are down to also rans. M&Ps only got so popular. Did they have issues? Dunno, but the floppy trigger was replaced with a dingus trigger. CZs aren't in the LEOP world. In the competition world their thing is NDs while manually decocking. How many gen 1 models of firearms has ruger recalled now because they were broken in some unsafe way?  Remington? 

But back to sig, they have always been a popular choice for LEO issue. If you look at the still ongoing lawsuits they cite a ton of hammer fired Sigs. It's like half the citations in some of them. So yeah that had a general problem. 

 

I do agree that there are ADs and NDs. 

 

[SmokenClay 21]

 

[JohnnyB 4,325]

In 2016, the PT24/7 was included in the settlement of a lawsuit which alleged that it, and certain other Taurus handguns, could fire accidentally if dropped and that Taurus covered up the safety defects. Without admitting guilt, the company paid $39 million, extended the warranties, and recalled the pistols for repair.