Socialism has arrived

[crazyboy 13]

Well health care passed.

[matt6669 71]

The slums are jumping up and down. YAY free health care for us!

 

November is going to be bitter sweet!

[71ragtopgoat 23]

If I'm not mistaken this has some constitutional issues. Both in how it was passed and how it will work.

[n4p226r 105]

doesnt matter. congress doesnt care about the constitution

[bbk 188]

I am seriously irked. I think everyone had that pit in their stomach, knowing that this would pass. But what bothers me is the realization of what this thread is titled. This really is a socialist nation now. Let that sink in.

 

What now? Or better yet, what's next? I think that last bit of liberalism in me was gouged out by those hypocrites in DC tonight.

[Maksim 1,504]

way toooo early to start freaking out yet.

 

The bill does have some decent points, and this is the light version, of the three or so presented.

 

There is no government care here, but merely requirement for everyone to have insurance.

 

Before this passes, bam bam has to sign it, ie, tuesday, but then they have to go step by step to get the rest of it. however most of the bill, will not take effect until 2015 and later.

 

I haven't seen the full synopsis, but hopefully will have something in my email this week, as this has a great impact on my insurance business.

 

Will keep this updated.

[tbtrout 141]

The slums are jumping up and down. YAY free health care for us!

 

November is going to be bitter sweet!

They already had it.

 

Let the law suits fly.

[Maksim 1,504]

The slums are jumping up and down. YAY free health care for us!

 

November is going to be bitter sweet!

They already had it.

 

Let the law suits fly.

 

 

at least 3 have already been filed in advance of this.

 

Mark Levin being one of the big ones.

[Larry1851 0]

Can't this legislation be repealed, like prohibition?

[BigBlueQ 7]

Add to the fact that it will slowly bleed small businesses into closing up shop...my wife owns a pre-school w/ about 40 employees. They all get insurance through their spouses, but if this is finalized she'll have to fund it herself.

 

Her enrollment is already at half full due to the unemployment rates, and this health bill will add another 41 "formerly employed" to the statistics.

[Maksim 1,504]

Can't this legislation be repealed, like prohibition?

 

Probably?

 

plenty of time...

 

here is the thing though, in NJ, we already have most of the stuff in the bill as law....

 

IE guaranteed insurability, and insurance limits. so it will not be as big of a hit. Our health insurance premiums are twice as high over others.

[bbk 188]

I'm not freaking out per se. Its just troubling that it happened in such a way with nothing more then a whimper in appeal (metaphorically-- of course there was a lot of press, but it really didn't seem to stop the momentum much; nor did the public opinion's opinion matter much). I do have optimism in this aftermath that it will be ultimately different in the end though... whether through refinements or whatnot.

[Maksim 1,504]

Add to the fact that it will slowly bleed small businesses into closing up shop...my wife owns a pre-school w/ about 40 employees. They all get insurance through their spouses, but if this is finalized she'll have to fund it herself.

 

Her enrollment is already at half full due to the unemployment rates, and this health bill will add another 41 "formerly employed" to the statistics.

 

 

She can offer it, however she doesn't have to pay for the their premiums. There is no cost to her to offer it, and quite honestly, it is a good benefit to keep their employees happy, and to attract new talent.

[wsl 2]

Add to the fact that it will slowly bleed small businesses into closing up shop...my wife owns a pre-school w/ about 40 employees. They all get insurance through their spouses, but if this is finalized she'll have to fund it herself.

 

Her enrollment is already at half full due to the unemployment rates, and this health bill will add another 41 "formerly employed" to the statistics.

 

 

She can offer it, however she doesn't have to pay for the their premiums. There is no cost to her to offer it, and quite honestly, it is a good benefit to keep their employees happy, and to attract new talent.

 

She has to pay for health insurance or have the option to take the penalty of 2k per employee. So if its costs more than 80k, its cheaper to not offer it.

 

As to the nothing taking effect until 2015.... Most goes into effect as soon as its signed. All the reform and regulations on health insurers happens immediately. All the kickbacks/bribes happen immediately. All the taxes happen immediately. The 500 million cut from medicare happens immediately. No one gets new coverage until 2014. The main tax to pay for it happens 2018.

 

And because there's no cost control in the bill, expect all premiums to rise big time before anyone gets anything covered. The first 4 years of reforms to the insurance companies by itself is going to raise premiums.

 

There will be constitutional lawsuits that hold it up like mandating everyone to purchase a product, but as of 3/21, we are officially the U.S.S.A

[NJ609 22]

I disagree with anyone who would say this is not the time to panic.

 

As far as I'm concerned America died last night. Not just because of what a pile of crap this bill was, but how it was passed, the closed door sessions, the ignoring of the will of the people. You know "the people", the ones who pay taxes.

 

Now it's not fiction anymore: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

[67gtonut 847]

Well..... I am going to see what this brings in real life .....

 

Health Care does need something..... Curious to see what this really does....

 

My coverage has been getting worse year by year, due to the fact my employer just cant afford the plans, due to the high cost of healthcare.....

 

No panic here..... just curiosity .....

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Maks, I'm sure you didn't miss the part about the new 3% tax on "unearned" income for people making over $200K. Capital gains, dividends, rent...

[Malsua 1,422]

Well..... I am going to see what this brings in real life .....

 

Health Care does need something..... Curious to see what this really does....

 

My coverage has been getting worse year by year, due to the fact my employer just cant afford the plans, due to the high cost of healthcare.....

 

No panic here..... just curiosity .....

 

Your employer may just decide to drop coverage completely and pay the per employee penalty. This puts you on the hook.

 

Here's a quote from the CBO:

 

"Average premiums per policy in the nongroup market in 2016 would be roughly $5,800 for single policies and $15,200 for family policies under the proposal, compared with roughly $5,500 for single policies and $13,100 for family policies under current law.4

Those figures indicate what enrollees would pay, on average, not accounting for the new federal subsidies. The majority of nongroup enrollees (about 57 percent) would receive subsidies via the new insurance exchanges, and those subsidies, on average, would cover nearly two-thirds of the total premium, CBO and JCT The weighted average of the differences in those amounts equals the change of 10 percent to 13 percent in the average premium per person summarized above, but the percentage increase in the average premium per policy for family policies is larger and that for single policies is smaller because the average number of people covered per family policy is estimated to increase under the proposal. The effects on the premiums paid by some individuals and families could vary significantly from the average effects on premiums.

 

Unless you make 28k or less per year, you are not eligible for a subsidy so expect to pay the full amount.

 

Numbers like the above are lowballed. The reason being, many doctors and other providers will leave(supply and demand, less supply, greater demand costs will go up), furthermore drug companies are getting a nice big shafting so their prices will not remain static. Expect to pay at least 20% more than the figures above listed.

[matty 810]

None of us (for the most part, Maks at least excluded) have lived under "socialism" as it was called by the former gov'ts of Iraq, the UsSr or National socialism. Or Cuba and Venezuela currently. I have seen the aftermath of these things firsthand in E. Europe, at least through various trips and its not pretty. I don't think this is "socialism"....yet. It is another small step that way, and will NEVER EVER go away. Patriot Act anyone? The current bunch in power at both ends of PA ave. campaigned against the Patriot act, and just a few weeks ago that same group of dopes re-authorized it. When gov't gets power and money it doesn't give it up, easily.

[djg0770 481]

There is no government care here, but merely requirement for everyone to have insurance.

 

I thought this was the land of the free and the home of the brave? Do you have any idea what this "mere" requirement would have meant for me earlier this year? Bankruptcy - plain and simple.

[GoNRA 12]

yeah I gotta agree with NJ609,

 

The will of the people was ignored, they will be voted out.. but like the republican leader said last night "The system is broken".

[BCeagle 12]

Nothing like waking up less free then you went to bed.

 

We need either a veto proof majority or the preidency to over turn it.

 

[GoNRA 12]

The Answer to the broken system?

 

[NJ609 22]

I'd like to point out that I believe although most of us as tax paying Americans are against this bill, few of us are ignorant to the need of reform.

 

But make no mistake. This is not reform, this is control. And as someone else said, today we woke up less free.

 

God damn right I'm angry about it. There is nothing in this world more important than our freedom, it's why we have everything we take for granted in this nation. And without it, the account will drain out of an ever growing hole in the bottom of the vault until there's nothing left but "we ought to" and "it's the right thing to do".

 

That is not a nation I want to live in. So I will continue to write my letters and be ignored by my representatives who are not likely to be evil men, but ignorant men. I'll place my votes hoping to stem the tide of this ignorance. And by the time I'm gone either it will all have worked out, which I'd be thankful for, or it will be on the express train to hell with no chance of turning around.

 

In that case I lament for future generations this burden we are placing upon them.

[kenw 293]

There is no government care here, but merely requirement for everyone to have insurance.

Two points on this statement:

 

1 - This is the first time in the history of America that, as a requirement of citizenship and under threat of fine or imprisonment, citizens have been required to purchase something simply as a result of living here. Even if I agreed with everything else in the package, that alone is enough to scare the crap out of me.

 

What will we be "required" to purchase next?

 

2 - The groundwork is now laid for the single payer system that they really wanted. The bill outlines (without any details) the "minimum requirements" for health insurance plans that the insurance companies must offer. If the requirements turn out to be such that the companies cannot provide such coverage at the required prices, and are unable to provide those plans to the people who are covered by private insurance companies, what's a loving and caring government to do? Just provide such services directly. Single payer will happen through attrition of the private companies, who will slowly find themselves priced out of the system.

 

Good morning, Comrades. It's the beginning of a Brave New World, and we get to be in on its inception. I feel so proud.

[Malsua 1,422]

The only problem with Ron Paul is that he's too kooky on certain issues.

 

Great on government size and spending.

 

He's also for no tariffs and open borders. If you think there are jobs left now, wait till an open borders libertarian gets in. The world will look at the US as a wounded Gazelle and pounce.

[NJ609 22]

What will we be "required" to purchase next?

 

Bacon is bad for you so we should start taxing it.

 

 

Just like... Soda.

 

Hmm maybe we should just ban those things outright now!

[GoNRA 12]

The only problem with Ron Paul is that he's too kooky on certain issues.

 

Great on government size and spending.

 

He's also for no tariffs and open borders. If you think there are jobs left now, wait till an open borders libertarian gets in. The world will look at the US as a wounded Gazelle and pounce.

 

Actually he's quite the opposite, he wants to tighten the borders and keep the military for national issues instead of dealing with everyone elses problems. There is no fighting to keep countries out of communism anymore, well except for our own. But aside from that 90 percent of countries are democracies.

 

[GoNRA 12]

Seems like everyone thinks Ron Paul and Steve Lonegan are crazy right wing radicals, would you say the same about the founders?

[kenw 293]

What will we be "required" to purchase next?

 

Bacon is bad for you so we should start taxing it.

 

 

Just like... Soda.

 

Hmm maybe we should just ban those things outright now!

Politics 101

Before we ban anything, we monetize the shlt out of it. Keep levying and raising the taxes until the point of zero net gain, then ban it outright because there's no longer any profit in taxing it.

 

It will soon happen to cigarettes. Each time the taxes go up, more people quit. When the taxes no longer support the bureaucracy, the move to ban will move to the forefront. And since the number of smokers will have been reduced to a statistically insignificant number, it'll be no problem, and the government will have nationalized another industry, since tobacco companies are too big to fail.