Wife asked a good question

[I saw nothing 3]

We were sitting on the deck the other night relaxing and my wife asked "What do we do if NJ declares Marshall law and a state of emergency and claims they need to take our guns.... for our safety.."? Honestly, I did not know how to answer with the exception of "if I answer the door it will be with some sort of protection or we would grab our stuff and leave the state."

 

Then she throws in the "zinger"... This floored me, she asked "then what happens if they close off all the bridges"? I was like "honey, are you feeling ok"? But you know what, she has a point and this may have been triggered by a conversation with a good Russian friend of ours a few weeks back. What is your feeling on this?

[Krdshrk 3,878]

They can take my guns - out of my cold dead hands.

 

There are plenty of ways out of new jersey without going over a bridge/tunnel. But most of that is up north. I would hunker down and wait for some of the madness to pass before trying to move anywhere.

[Malsua 1,422]

No, they would need to take our guns for their safety, as this is why they would be taking them.

 

Unless there is a collapse or major catastrophe, this isn't going to happen.

[vladtepes 1,060]

We were sitting on the deck the other night relaxing and my wife asked "What do we do if NJ declares Marshall law and a state of emergency and claims they need to take our guns.... for our safety.."? Honestly, I did not know how to answer with the exception of "if I answer the door it will be with some sort of protection or we would grab our stuff and leave the state."

 

Then she throws in the "zinger"... This floored me, she asked "then what happens if they close off all the bridges"? I was like "honey, are you feeling ok"? But you know what, she has a point and this may have been triggered by a conversation with a good Russian friend of ours a few weeks back. What is your feeling on this?

 

 

if there is a "state or emergency" the last thing I will be doing is answering the door..

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

No, they would need to take our guns for their safety, as this is why they would be taking them.

 

Unless there is a collapse or major catastrophe, this isn't going to happen.

 

 

Probably what they thought in New Orleans pre-Katrina. In light of that, some states have passed laws that forbid the seizure of weapons in the event of a declared emergency. I believe that PA has done this, although not sure. Anyone aware of NJ's status in this regard?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[bbk 188]

IIRC, the state can stop the sale of firearms during a state of emergency (I also believe there is no such thing as "martial law" in NJ, though, that's simply a label-- so, who knows in application). When I was reading the statutes on the OEM site, I didn't see anything about firearms seizure.

[mcbethr 42]

I don't think that this is much of a concern.

 

NJ Policeman: "KNOCK KNOCK. Good morning, Citizen. We are violating the Forth Amendment by going door to door confiscating guns due to the state of emergency. Do you have any guns in the house?"

NJ Citizen: "What on earth would I have a gun for? Do I look like some kind of mouth-breathing Birther from Arkansas? I want your badge number, how dare you imply that I am some kind of gun nut?"

 

Yeah, I don't think we have too much to worry about. They'd probably give up after the third house.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I don't think that this is much of a concern.

 

 

I sure hope you're right. Holy crap, wouldn't it suck to have to give up our guns just when we need them the most? Naively, I hadn't even considered that possibility. Next thing you know, you're going to tell me that they're going to confiscate our gold. Oh wait, they did they once, didn't they.

[MrP 81]

I don't think that this is much of a concern.

 

NJ Policeman: "KNOCK KNOCK. Good morning, Citizen. We are violating the Forth Amendment by going door to door confiscating guns due to the state of emergency. Do you have any guns in the house?"

NJ Citizen: "What on earth would I have a gun for? Do I look like some kind of mouth-breathing Birther from Arkansas? I want your badge number, how dare you imply that I am some kind of gun nut?"

 

Yeah, I don't think we have too much to worry about. They'd probably give up after the third house.

 

Yep... Milk out of my nose onto the keyboard. Time to find a napkin.

[vjf915 456]

I'm pretty sure that playing ignorant, denying that you are a "gun nut" would work when they have on file that you have an FID. None of my guns have been voluntarily "registered", but I'm sure that by tracing paperwork....they can get a pretty good idea of what I do and do not have. I think the best case idea is to hide a couple in a pretty well hidden area, and give them a couple useless guns. If they came knocking on my door and didn't have a list, I wouldn't mind forking over my .22 and old double barrel 12ga if I thought it would make them go away.

 

I also think that this is a touchy subject. We would all like to say "out of my cold dead hands", but do you really want to shoot the messenger?

[StephanieSeven 70]

I don't think that this is much of a concern.

 

NJ Policeman: "KNOCK KNOCK. Good morning, Citizen. We are violating the Forth Amendment by going door to door confiscating guns due to the state of emergency. Do you have any guns in the house?"

NJ Citizen: "What on earth would I have a gun for? Do I look like some kind of mouth-breathing Birther from Arkansas? I want your badge number, how dare you imply that I am some kind of gun nut?"

 

Yeah, I don't think we have too much to worry about. They'd probably give up after the third house.

NJ Policeman: Sir, stop with the bs. When I run your address in our database it shows me the purchase permits issued to you. Give me your sh*t.

 

NJ Citizen: Oh.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

NJ Policeman: Sir, stop with the bs. When I run your address in our database it shows me the purchase permits issued to you. Give me your sh*t.

 

NJ Citizen: Oh.

 

*hands over Airsoft guns*

[I saw nothing 3]

I'm pretty sure that playing ignorant, denying that you are a "gun nut" would work when they have on file that you have an FID. None of my guns have been voluntarily "registered", but I'm sure that by tracing paperwork....they can get a pretty good idea of what I do and do not have. I think the best case idea is to hide a couple in a pretty well hidden area, and give them a couple useless guns. If they came knocking on my door and didn't have a list, I wouldn't mind forking over my .22 and old double barrel 12ga if I thought it would make them go away.

 

I also think that this is a touchy subject. We would all like to say "out of my cold dead hands", but do you really want to shoot the messenger?

 

That is where the concern comes in and really got me thinking. I know I say "just try and take them..I dare you" but I honestly think that since we are "stupid" law abiding citizens and don't want trouble we probably would "give in".

 

However, then I started thinking EVERY country that confiscated firearms there was massive genocide. Innocent people ended up dying [even] worse and more torturous deaths. I honestly don't know what I would do and hope to God we never find out, but I do think this is a possibility in the very near future. Before you call me crazy, if I told you 4 years ago that our country would be where it was now would you have thought I was crazy? I would have and that is why I think it is always a good idea to see what others think. We can learn from the past to avoid disasters in the future...

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

We can learn from the past to avoid disasters in the future...

 

 

Unless you're a liberal progressive

[Melgamatic 66]

Unless there is a collapse or major catastrophe, this isn't going to happen.

 

Someone else mentioned Katrina, and that's a good example. That kind of catastrophe is not impossible, especially for those of you who live only a few miles from the ocean.

 

Also, we had pretty serious rioting in multiple major cities in 1969, and the government could very well declare some kind of state of emergency that they felt allowed them to collect guns.

 

I'm much more worried about this kind of intermediate disaster and state of emergency than the "complete collapse of society" scenario, because a) the smaller disasters have actually happened with some regularity, and b) I'm not quite able to change my life in order to plan for the complete collapse / zombies / "one second after" kind of disaster.

[vjf915 456]

The people who think that collecting legally purchased guns in an emergency are the same kind of people who want to ban "assault clips" and design Brady commercials. Something like Katrina happens, I'm boarding up MY house and defending it....not going out to loot. I think that the best idea in this situation would be to just NOT answer the door, and try to make it look like nobody is home. With the volume of gun owners, and stretched thin law enforcement.....I doubt they are going to break out the tactical gear and door breachers to take your guns, they will probably just move onto the next house.

[Malsua 1,422]

Someone else mentioned Katrina, and that's a good example. That kind of catastrophe is not impossible, especially for those of you who live only a few miles from the ocean.

 

Also, we had pretty serious rioting in multiple major cities in 1969, and the government could very well declare some kind of state of emergency that they felt allowed them to collect guns.

 

I'm much more worried about this kind of intermediate disaster and state of emergency than the "complete collapse of society" scenario, because a) the smaller disasters have actually happened with some regularity, and b) I'm not quite able to change my life in order to plan for the complete collapse / zombies / "one second after" kind of disaster.

 

A Katrina level event for a region could happen, although I'm not quite sure what could knock out much or all of the state in one swoop except some kind of Nuclear calamity. Even a hurricane is really only going to be a problem for those within 20 miles of shore or so. A major earthquake along some fault that's lain dormant since the Pleistocene, might do it. Maybe if the Yellowstone or Mammoth super volcanoes fires us up. We'd be ok here in the East...at least until all the food was gone. Blotting out the sun for a decade might be a problem. You really can't plan for something along those lines, so why bother.

[NorthernYankee 94]

I have been thinking about this same thing after watching the Katrina videos of them confiscating legal firearms. If there was some natural disaster and police/National Guard came around to confiscate my weapons, I wouldn't allow them in my home. And if they tried to forcibly enter, there would be problems, if they won't honor our rights we need to fight for them.

[I saw nothing 3]

I have been thinking about this same thing after watching the Katrina videos of them confiscating legal firearms. If there was some natural disaster and police/National Guard came around to confiscate my weapons, I wouldn't allow them in my home. And if they tried to forcibly enter, there would be problems, if they won't honor our rights we need to fight for them.

 

Seeing the elderly woman get tackled by a government agent then take her gun was VERY alarming. I think as law abiding citizens we look for the good in people and were brought up to trust our government authorities. However, when governments get to the point of firearm confiscation then freedom is lost and the consequences of giving in are far worse than standing up.

I remember growing up and watching film where innocent people were being lead like cattle to their demise, by their government. I would utter to myself "do something... at least die trying"! I guess it is easier said when you have never been in that situation, but i always believed in "die trying".

 

I guess if the birds are singing, neighbors walking their dogs and children are playing outside it is hard to imagine fighting off a government official that comes to your house for confiscation. However, if the sky is red, cars are burning, rubble is blocking the streets and hoodlums running around with ski masks and AK-47's... then it is easily justified to answer your door with an attitude.

 

However, it is good to throw these things out there and discuss them. In the end, regardless of our differences we believe in freedom and will do anything to preserve it.

 

As Ben Franklin said "We must all hang together or we will assuredly hang alone..."

[SpecialK 193]

 

 

I also think that this is a touchy subject. We would all like to say "out of my cold dead hands", but do you really want to shoot the messenger?

 

a PO is not some mindless messenger. If they choose to infringe on a persons second Amendment rights they are a traitor to this great nation.

[tuktuk 16]

Really guys ? Really? You gonna start a shootout with the police / national guard ? To prove a point? That you rather die "free" ? We haven't been free in a very long time ladies and gens courtesy of our politicians on the left, center and right.....

No disrespect to anybody on this forum but I think 90% of us will last under 60seconds in that kind of situation anyways. Hiding some guns that I might try, starting an insurgency against the state / federal governments ... I dont think so.... And def not dying for sure, I got a wife and a kid and elderly parents I have to take of....

[njpilot 671]

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

[SpecialK 193]

Really guys ? Really? You gonna start a shootout with the police / national guard ? To prove a point? That you rather die "free" ? We haven't been free in a very long time ladies and gens courtesy of our politicians on the left, center and right.....

No disrespect to anybody on this forum but I think 90% of us will last under 60seconds in that kind of situation anyways. Hiding some guns that I might try, starting an insurgency against the state / federal governments ... I dont think so.... And def not dying for sure, I got a wife and a kid and elderly parents I have to take of....

 

They cease to be the police or national guard once they make this (hypothetical) decision. The government is created by a set of laws, if it does not follow the laws it is not the government. Police in New Jersey make up .04% of the population (a rough estimate, might even be lower after all the layoffs). No one would be starting anything with these people who choose to do them wrong, it is those that go against this Country that will be starting it.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I'm pretty sure that once they declare martial law, that supercedes the Constitution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law Scary thought, but that's the way it would be. Is it worth the necessary time and effort to prepare for such an eventuality? I suppose that's for each of us to decide.

[tankcommander 4]

This is a tough call, but remember your local and State Police have all your hand gun purchases on record. They get a copy of all issued permits.

 

They know you have them. Personal story someone we know was making threats against the family. The wife was upset and went to the police to make a complaint. The police replied what are you worried about your husband has lots of guns.

 

I'm sure they didn't go into a very deep back ground check. They Know.

 

As a retired National Guardsman I know that I would not obey an order to confiscate law abiding citizens firearms.

 

TC

[vjf915 456]

a PO is not some mindless messenger. If they choose to infringe on a persons second Amendment rights they are a traitor to this great nation.

No they are not mindless messengers, they are not robots......they are people too. People whose job is to follow specific orders, whose job pays to keep their wife and kids safe. I am NOT justifying their actions, but I also have no intentions of any malicious actions against another human being when I can simply hide most of them and give the useless guns up, such as a $100 .22 and a broken $100 SxS shotgun. Do I like it? Not at all. But that $200 worth of useless guns is NOT worth the lives of police officers following orders, and the negative impact the actions will have on my conscience.

[SpecialK 193]

No they are not mindless messengers, they are not robots......they are people too. People whose job is to follow specific orders, whose job pays to keep their wife and kids safe. I am NOT justifying their actions, but I also have no intentions of any malicious actions against another human being when I can simply hide most of them and give the useless guns up, such as a $100 .22 and a broken $100 SxS shotgun. Do I like it? Not at all. But that $200 worth of useless guns is NOT worth the lives of police officers following orders, and the negative impact the actions will have on my conscience.

 

Orders are only orders when they are lawful. Would you absolve a police officer of all responsibility if he were to murder someone under the chiefs orders? "oh sure he shot my father, but he was just following orders. Orders trump all laws." If the order is unlawful then it is his or her duty not to follow it.

[Daedalus 19]

Yet another reason to own an airplane!

[vjf915 456]

Orders are only orders when they are lawful. Would you absolve a police officer of all responsibility if he were to murder someone under the chiefs orders? "oh sure he shot my father, but he was just following orders. Orders trump all laws." If the order is unlawful then it is his or her duty not to follow it.

I am NOT justifying their actions

Reading > you

[bbk 188]

SpecialK, I think you're being way over-idealistic, and not quite keeping in mind reality. A government exists because a society allows it to exist. Whether or not it is doing the right thing or fails in maintaining its duties does not immediately make the government illegitimate. Look at the countless number of overt and more subtle governments in power who continue this trend (some of whom are being reminded of it in Northern Africa and Southwest Asia). Simply saying that you do not believe that something is what it is does not make it any less then what it is presently.

 

As for this topic-- be careful with what you are saying. I'm not saying that being disgruntled with how things are presently is wrong and not allowed. But suggesting or saying things outright that point towards being outwardly militant/violent will not be tolerated.

Remember this is a public space, and what you include in this public space reflects not just the individual but the whole community. If you feel a certain way that treads or stamps on that line, keep it to yourself.