Open Carry Phily Incident Charges Filed

[Soju 153]

i don't know any 18 years olds I would trust with a bb gun let alone a real gun lol..

 

 

How many 18 year olds do you know? Just because you weren't mature enough to have a BB gun at 18 doesn't mean others aren't. I know people in the 30-40 year old range I wouldn't trust with a gun. You know what that means? It means age restrictions or requirements are moot. You can't regulate individuals with age restrictions after a certain point. And considering 18 is the age people are considered adults, any further restrictions are ridiculous.

 

 

 

As for your comment about living near a liquor store where a robbery occurred.. What would have changed should you have had a gun?? What would have changed if the cashier had a gun on his hip?? Probably nothing.. Because by the time the cashier realized what was going on he would have been shot..

 

 

 

 

So you keep saying (about the original topic with the OCer in Philly) that because none of were there we don't know how everything went down, and then you come up with this? Now you are just making things up. You have no idea that the cashier being armed wouldn't have changed anything. How do you know the cashier wouldn't have shot the robber instead? Oh that's right, you don't.

 

Ignorance is bliss.

[Soju 153]

Ok.. You know what I give up.. You are right and I am wrong.. Everyone 18+ should be allowed to carry a gun... You win.. You win.. Ok Gov.. give everyone a permit to carry.. Let EVERYONE who applies carry a gun.. Actually forget it.. No permit needed.. No rules.. Just buy the gun and strap it on.. I will guarantee you that in the first week you will get about at least 100 shootings.. They will be mixed between criminals committing normal crimes that they now have access to a gun by just going to the store and purchasing.. and the home owner who saw someone in their yard, got scared, and opened fire.. only it turns out the guy was so drunk he had no idea where he was.. or how about the lady who wasnt expecting someone at the door and is scared as no one is supposed to be goign there that late.. should she call the cops.. nah.. she just got her gun... but whatever.. I am done going back and forth.. You win.. Let everyone carry... Good night..

 

I can guarantee you are wrong, and with evidence too. Why don't you take a look at the states that have no permits required to carry? The states that all it takes is to walk into a shop, by a gun and some ammo, walk out of the store, load up and strap it to your hip? I'm up here in NH, have walked around with a gun on my hip everytime I've left my house, bought a handgun in about 15 minutes at the shop. And guess what? I haven't shot anybody yet. And guess what else? I wouldn't even be above the age you think people need to be (based on your other post). Imagine that. Funny thing right? You should be done, because your posts are absurd, unfounded, biased beyond belief, and ignorant.

[Jon 264]

I had typed out a long response, but after doing a brief search, and locating some posts of yours on another website, I refuse to have anything to do with your hypocrisy.

 

(In reference to removing catalytic converters from a street car, and then driving it in NJ)

 

Well the emmissions shouldnt be a problem. Got a couple of friends in that area.. As far as the police hassling that shouldnt be a problem either since I am the police lol...

 

LOL... Keep in mind that the vehicle is not a daily driver.. It is a car that will be built up and go to shows and to the track for amatuer things...I mean yea i will take it out once in a while but this is not meant to drive every day to and from work and all that.. I am trying to restore it and be able to have something nice. But hey what can I say, membership has its privileges.

 

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/exhaust/499346-found-some-interesting-things.html

 

I also love that you added tinted windows, underbody neons, and never ran a front plate on your vehicle WHILE serving as a Law Enforcement Officer. You are the cop that gives cops a bad name.

[Maksim 1,504]

 

I , then , then

 

You just tried to , but ended up

[Malsua 1,422]

Let me see if I have this straight

 

"Us vs Them"

"People are civilians." For what it's worth Cops are civilians. All the time, even on the job.

"Regular people can't handle it"

"Obey my Authoritay"

"I give orders that must be obeyed"

"Membership has is privileges"

"Nicname is 'Fearthis'"

and finally,

 

"Drives an "I.R.O.C."

 

Hmm, this is screaming something at me. here's a clue:

[Vlad G 345]

It is no a Us vs Them.. More of "i want to go home at the end of the day" type of attitude.

 

Hey man, I understand that, but guess what .. So do we. We'd like to get home too. The problem we are facing is that at some point the safety of police officers has become more important then the safety of those their are supposed to protect. Do you see the problem here? Its not that we don't appreciate what you do, and yes your job is more dangerous then most, but it is far from the most dangerous. Construction workers, farmers, fishermen, loggers, sanitation workers, coal miners they all have a higher work related fatality and injury rate then policy officers. Their jobs are as necessary as yours, because while I firmly convinced that we do need law enforcement, I'm also pretty sure we need food, shelter, and energy. However you almost never see the people on those jobs advocating the removal of rights from everyone else for their safety.

 

On the average day I don't need to carry a gun. I get up, walk the dog in a good neighborhood, drive to work on a collage campus, drive back, stop for some food shopping in a good area, go home, walk the dog again. Of course, there were 5 shootings on my collage campus just a few weeks ago. The problem is that not all days are average. Even more importantly to me, my wife DOES need carry a gun and she can't. She does charity animal rescue work often in the worst **** holes on earth. It comes with the territory, good people take care of their pets, people living in **** holes often don't. She goes on and does work that the state doesn't with money she raises herself without anyone getting taxed for it and she does it in places where the police officers in the area told her "We don't hang out here long, its not safe". She is 5ft tall and often alone there, and doesn't even have a badge of some sort to instil any kind of government authority. If anyone ever needed to carry a gun is her, but in New Jersey that's not reason enough. I guess the state's position is that it is better for her to be unarmed, for the safety of the armed drug dealers or maybe for the safety of the officers that don't actually want to go into those places. On the days I can join her to giver her a hand, I carry a powerful flashlight. Awesome defense that. By the time a police officer gets there, at least they'll be able to find out bodies by the bright lights on the ground assuming they weren't stolen.

[kenw 293]

Wow, satisfy that pesky need to sleep, and I miss a bunch of interesting stuff.

 

Also its not a Us vs Them attitude that I have.. When I say I have a biased opinion it is because I look at the situation strictly as a cop.. not as a civilian or a civilian carrying.. It is no a Us vs Them.. More of "i want to go home at the end of the day" type of attitude.. Call it what you want but you will always see it something from your side of the fence.. Its just the way people are.. A guy who smokes weed all the time is going to feel greatly that it should be legal and allowed.. While others will still be against it.. We see things from our own perspective and that is what makes us human.. We have our own opinions on matters.. And perhaps you are right.. Maybe it is just that I have spent all my life in NJ and it was not until I got on the job that I began dealing with guns that I have the attitude that I have.. And maybe spending time with guys like those on the forum will open my mind more.. Time will tell.. But don't think I am against anyone in particular or putting down anything.. I am open to many things.. But I guess when you are used to things being a certain way change isnt always easy to process..

Like anyone else, you are entitled to your opinion, and like anyone else, your opinions have been shaped by your experiences.

 

Yes, you should spend some more time with responsible members of the shooting community. It may expand your narrowly formed opinions somewhat. You may be surprised at what you learn about people, and freedom.

 

While I don't agree with virtually anything you said, I do want to thank you for honestly (I assume) answering the question, and for your service to the community, irrelevant of your personal motives for serving.

[axeman_g 128]

At least this thread got put to some use

[tony357 386]

If he really is a officer clearly a case of badge gone to head, next one to read about in the papers..

 

What officer would use a screen name fear this, holy shiit send him off for evaluation..

[kenw 293]

I knew this was starting to remind me of something sitting deep in the recesses of my memory.

 

Quote from Blade Runner...

 

Deckard: [getting up to leave] I was quit when I come in here, Bryant, I'm twice as quit now.

Bryant: Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!

 

Sad on so many levels, not the least of which is that I remember a small quote from an old movie that wasn't so great to begin with.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

What officer would use a screen name fear this, holy shiit send him off for evaluation..

 

I seem to recall we had someone here before who's screen name was something like "Rights trampler"(exaggeration) or something of that nature who said they were a cop.

 

I remembered. "PistolWhip"

Edited May 17, 2011 by Malsua

[johnoutdoors 10]

It is no a Us vs Them.. More of "i want to go home at the end of the day" type of attitude..

 

This is the "Us vs. Them" attitude. By stating that, you are suggesting that I (the general public) am inhibiting your ability to go home. Whether or not I have a gun, I am automatically a threat to your life. I understand that you need to take unknown people and situations cautiously. But how many times have you actually had someone go from traffic stop to attemped murder? I would bet that if the attitude changed from "I just want to make it home" to "I want to do my job safely and not treat people like they ALL want to kill me," then your life would still be safe and the general public would be more likely to respect the man with the badge.

[LorenzoS 100]

I am now starting to doubt FearThis is for real. I think we've just been part of a pretty good joke. Nice run there for a while.

 

Come on now. He just registered a week ago, screen name "FearThis," his posts get increasingly silly and erratic trying to keep the pot stirred and now ... an IROC?" This guy is either someone from CeaseFireNJ trying to get a rise out of us or more likely, a 16 year old kid having some fun.

[PDM 91]

I'm curious, if Mr. FearThis believes that ordinary law abiding citizens should not be allowed to carry, what about retired LEO? Do you agree witht he system in NJ where retired cops are a privileged class who get to carry? According to your way of thinking, why should that be? They are no longer on the job and have zero responsibility to respond to a crime in progress, even if it happens in front of them. They no longer must answer to a seargent, Captain, Chief or review board. They don't necessarily have any better training than a myriad of private citizens who are denied the right. In a defensive shooting an on the job cop would have no way of knowing that the retired cop was once a cop, any more than he would no that any other citizen is law abiding. So why?

 

That said, IMHO, we need to do a reality check. Was the guy treated in an abusive and unprofessional manner? Clearly. But he was carrying in PHILLY, where civilian carry is practically unheard of, not Texas, Alaska or Vermont. I don't think it was unreasonable for an officer to stop him to check out what was going on, and when stopped he should have complied immediately and 100% with the officer's directions, even if the officer was out of line. It was the officer's responsibility to know the law, and he should have let him go as soon as he confirmed he had a carry license. The guy could have filed a complaint against the cop later due to his lack of courtesy and professionalism. I know that open carry is all people have in places like Philly and CA, but I do think it is a bad idea.

 

Finally, FearThis wrote that if civilian carry is allowed, he "guarantees" that 100 people will be shot soon thereafter. On what basis? Has this happened in Vermont, Alaska, Texas, Georgia, Florida, etc., etc.

[axeman_g 128]

troll

[Cylinder Head 22]

This thread is absolutely epic. Thank you FearThisInc for edifying every stereotype regarding IROC driving, law breaking NJ cops. Let me guess, you're also 5'8" and 220lbs of pure a**-injected muscle as well?

[PDM 91]

If the troll comment was directed to my post above, I'm confused, but whatever.

[LorenzoS 100]

think the Troll comment is directed at FearThis. He's just too cliche to be real.

[axeman_g 128]

towards Fear...

[Dr. KGM 1]

Officer fearthis inc as a law abiding citizen and newcomer to the target shooting arena i have a few sincere questions for you:

1. If one were to have ccw in nj and they were stopped by a leo should they present their ccw in order to ease the situation? I am putting myself in ur shoes and if i were a leo i would appreciate this action. My greatest fear is that u see my concealed weapon without knowing that i have a ccw, well that could be a mess!!

 

2. What is the magazine capacity in nj?

 

3. Are hollow point bullets legal?

 

4. Is a collapsable stock legal on pump shot gun in nj?

 

Thank you for your service to our community i appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

[hmmjak 2]

wow you guys write a lot. i had to just skim through the post cause it was getting a little too long for me. i'm sorry if i repeat anything that was already said and if i do then this is me supporting it.

 

as to the article

i think both sides could have been A LOT smarter about the whole situation.

the officer should never have his firearm out and already pointed at the guy. he should of just exercised caution like having his hand on his firearm in case it needs to be quickly drawn and giving orders to the guy to slowly take out his id and permit and show it to him. also, i think the officers should already know that it was legal to carry in philly, open or concealed. i'm not sure how you can enforce the law if you don't know the laws. now i understand that it is impossible to know every single law however things like this should be known.

 

oh and to the people making the point where they dont have to obey an officer's demands when they're doing something COMPLETELY legal. yes i guess you have a point. but in this situation the officer didn't know if the man was legally carrying. you can only carry if you have a permit. if an officer demands to see your permit you better answer and show him your permit.

 

as to the rest of this stuff in this thread...

NOTE: i do support the fight for our right to carry concealed. however, i'm a little hesistant for it to be extended to open carry anywhere. i believe open carry actually works as a disadvantage when it comes to self defense. if a criminal who is about to rob some store and sees you're carrying a gun, i'm pretty sure he would target you first. the element of surprise is key.

 

"As for your comment about living near a liquor store where a robbery occurred.. What would have changed should you have had a gun?? What would have changed if the cashier had a gun on his hip?? Probably nothing.. Because by the time the cashier realized what was going on he would have been shot.."

you should look at the news reports of the crimes being stopped by armed citizens. youtube the armed citizen. granted things might not always work out that way BUT i would rather be given a chance to defend myself rather than just sit there and hope that this criminal who is robbing me at gun point not shoot me even after i cooperated with all of his demands.

 

the whole worry about 18 year olds with handguns. majority of the states require that the person be 21. places like vermont and alaska i think are only the few places that allow 18 yr olds to carry.

 

carrying restricted in certain places i can understand to an extent. mental institutions, prisons, etc. ok i understand. but schools??? definitely not. why shouldn't people be allow to carry concealed? and to answer the question that went out. i know both utah and texas allow students who have a CCW permit to carry on campus as well. state funded though. i think private universities have an option.

there were students at VTech shooting who have their CCW permit but since they can't carry on campus they could not do a thing while their fellow students were being massacred.

 

Officer fearthis inc as a law abiding citizen and newcomer to the target shooting arena i have a few sincere questions for you:

1. If one were to have ccw in nj and they were stopped by a leo should they present their ccw in order to ease the situation? I am putting myself in ur shoes and if i were a leo i would appreciate this action. My greatest fear is that u see my concealed weapon without knowing that i have a ccw, well that could be a mess!!

 

2. What is the magazine capacity in nj?

 

3. Are hollow point bullets legal?

 

4. Is a collapsable stock legal on pump shot gun in nj?

 

Thank you for your service to our community i appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

 

are you testing him or you really just don't know and asking questions open to everyone?

[Dr. KGM 1]

Please let the officer reply i trust him as he represents the

law and is the one who has to enforce it.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

 

are you testing him or you really just don't know and asking questions open to everyone?

 

These are things that people have been illegally and maliciously prosecuted for in NJ.

 

Please let the officer reply i trust him as he represents the

law and is the one who has to enforce it.

You should know that he is not the only LEO present on this forum, in fact many LEO's are currently active in this thread.. I cant believe you just said you trust someone you don't even know..... From the hypocrisy that has been dug up i wouldn't want this guy patroling my streets. Being an officer is a privilege, it's not something you become so you can dictate the law, and hold yourself above the law.

Infact you could learn a thing or two from our LEO community here and how they actually hold themselves to higher standards then the law..Not a lower one..

[FearThisInc 35]

Ok.. so here it goes.. I am not saying that shootings are going to rise dramatically and stay there.. All I am saying is that withing the first weeks there would be a dramatic rise in the amount of gun calls.. I am sure it would slow down but in the beginning you will get EVERY person just doing it to "do it".. It's simple mathematics.. You raise the amount of guns into a community there is bound to be a rise in gun calls.. So I am not saying that there is going to be some huge amount of killings every day but at the beginning yes there will be a lot of gun calls which I am sure would slow down after a few weeks..

 

As for the comment about other states not having a lot of shootings.. You are talking about other states, not NJ.. Other states might not have killings everyday.. Fine.. But how long have they had carry laws?? Or how long have their gun laws been almost non existent? As stated before, NJ has NEVER been a gun state.. They slap on absurd restrictions and some towns screw guys trying to get permits than is imaginable.. So growing up in a state this is ALL some of us know.. And some people will never even touch a gun in their lives.. So you are right.. Down the road if NJ opened the gun laws like other states I am sure it would be fine.. But before that you will get a lot of shootings.. And I am not saying its going to be good guys like the guys on here.. A lot of scum will have easier access to the guns like the guy that shot the clerk at the liquor store.. But you will have the occasion where a civilian shoots someone because they felt threatened and it might turn out that the guy they shot was unarmed or just not in the right state of mind.. So whatever the case is there would be a rise in gun calls..

 

And the member that posted about my age requirements.. Again it goes back to being a cop.. You know how many kids 18,19,20,21,22,23... that I have had to lock up because they just were not grown up enough to realize what they were doing was the most retarded thing they could do.. Given that there are older guys out there who make the same mistakes but the majority are younger.. So again as a cop I feel there should be a age requirement.. I said 23-25 if it was my way not having anything to do with legal.. hypothetically is all I was saying...

 

As for the guy who went out of his way to look up my old iroc.. Thanks for taking the time lol.. Didn't know I meant that much to you.. But in defense.. I am not the A-hole cop that writes you a ticket for something I have.. As many of you stated I am also a civilian.. I am not the type of guy that is going to do one thing over here and then issue you the same thing over there.. If I do it then I don't write for it.. that's my philosophy.. But just for your knowing.. the car has been sold..

 

Now onto my test... First let me start of by saying that I do not know all the rules and regulations regarding restrictions on weapons.. We are not trained to know the exact restrictions on all weapons.. Most of our encounters with guys with guns is going to be criminal.. Not me stopping you and inspecting all your firearms.. With that:

 

1. If I see you are carrying concealed you should present your carry card but if you do not have one I am sure there is a way of looking it up.. IF neither is available then you would have an issue.. As stated before, how do I know if you have a permit to carry or are just some guy who decided to walk out with a gun on your hip.. If you can provide no documentation and there is no way of looking it up I would assume you would be detained until such documentation is available.. But on such a call a supervisor would always be notified..

 

2. In NJ mag capacity is 15

 

3. Must give an example on the hollow points.. If I recall correctly they are illegal unless used in proper manner.. but if a criminal walks in to rob a store and has hollow points I believe there is a charge for it

 

4. If I recall correctly you can have a collapsible on a pump shotgun.. But can honestly say that I probably wouldn't have been able to answer that before last week..

 

But Dr. I hope you realize that I never claimed to KNOW all the laws.. I clearly stated that already..No one knows EVERY part of EVERY law.. Have you ever picked up a 2C book?? It is impossible to know every part of it.. Even Judges have to look things up once in a while to make sure they are accurate in their rulings.. But again when am I going to be charging someone for an illegal weapon unless they are caught in a criminal act?? I am not going to walk up to your door and start asking if you have firearms and inspect them.. I am a street cop.. So when/if I run into this chances are its not going to be on a range guy like yourself.. It's going to be on a guy who just robbed the liquor store..

 

But once again I think this topic is done.. I have my views on things and you have your views.. I joined this site in hopes of learning some new things and maybe meeting some new guys that were into shooting.. But as always politics got involved and ruined it all.. Should have known better then to even start on such a topic here.. Just know that I am with most of yous on easing up the laws.. But feel that some restrictions are necessary.. Just figured that like mature people you would respect that someone has an opinion and view other then yours.. That there would be some common ground... But it is what it is I guess..

 

Also if you want facts.. Check where the majority of the guns that kill cops, innocent bystanders, etc come from.. Those free states that you want NJ to be like.. That's where the guns come from.. Studies have shown that a large percentage of guns come from states that lack gun control laws.. Just saying.. You guys wanted facts..

[Babaganoosh 192]

You know what? I gotta give KpdPipes a +1 in general. Especially in comparison to this guy. I'm not ashamed to admit that for the most part I am a cop basher. Then again most of my experiences with the police have been with tools like Fearthis and that clown PistolWhip. I really think they outnumber the good guys like KpdPipes. I know I haven't been in agreement with him on many subjects but he definatly doesn't bring the US vs THEM type attitude to the forums or the the range. I met him briefly without knowing it until afterwards at USPSA in CJRPJ and next time I'd like to sqaud with him. That's a lot coming from a guy who is not really fond of the police.

 

So I'll take this oppurtunity to thank him for bringing another perspective to these forums and being an example of how I think cops should be. You really don't notice it until you see how some of these idiots think on here. Protect and serve themselves it seems.

 

Rant and Rave over.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

As for the guy who went out of his way to look up my old iroc.. Thanks for taking the time lol.. Didn't know I meant that much to you.. But in defense.. I am not the A-hole cop that writes you a ticket for something I have.. As many of you stated I am also a civilian.. I am not the type of guy that is going to do one thing over here and then issue you the same thing over there.. If I do it then I don't write for it.. that's my philosophy.. But just for your knowing.. the car has been sold..

 

 

The point is that you yourself cannot follow the laws that you swore to uphold...

It's not about i break a law but dont write up other people who break the same one..It doesnt work that way, in the peoples view.

 

The rest of your post is basically personal opinion, i see no real facts in there... The problem with younger people on the 18 age group and up is that we treat them like children and they act like children, a small fact that you should probably know is that if your at age 20 and still immature, chances are you will never mature.

 

You came to one of the most pro-gun sites in the country, oppressed and stepped on by our state, you couldnt possibly expect any less from us?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Anyone here watch the Handgun and other shows on the Outdoor Channel late at night?

 

There was an episode on recently which I bet arose from this incident. Maybe they did their own Law and Order ripped from the headlines..........

 

Showed different scenarios with two police officers approaching a guy on the sidewalk who was openly carrying.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Anyone here watch the Handgun and other shows on the Outdoor Channel late at night?

 

There was an episode on recently which I bet arose from this incident. Maybe they did their own Law and Order ripped from the headlines..........

 

Showed different scenarios with two police officers approaching a guy on the sidewalk who was openly carrying.

Yes, it was on last week, i believe is was the self-defense show. They showed three scenarios on how to handle a police encounter while openly carrying. I thought the same thing when i watched it... it was on pretty late though.

Only problem i noticed is that it teaches you how to handle the situation when the officer knows your rights and is not violating them.

[SSlav 14]

I know my share of LEOs. Unfortunately it is not those guys (who are professional, respectful and polite) who are shaping my opinion of the profession. For good or bad I do not think of them as LEOs. I think of them as fellow shooters (those that I have met through shooting sports) or fellow parents (those that I have met through my son's school or sports functions). It the "membership has its privileges", "respect my authorota" types that I think of as a stereotipical LEO. Unfortunate.

[Jon 264]

As for the guy who went out of his way to look up my old iroc.. Thanks for taking the time lol.. Didn't know I meant that much to you.. But in defense.. I am not the A-hole cop that writes you a ticket for something I have.. As many of you stated I am also a civilian.. I am not the type of guy that is going to do one thing over here and then issue you the same thing over there.. If I do it then I don't write for it.. that's my philosophy.. But just for your knowing.. the car has been sold..

 

Don't flatter yourself. As a civilian member of Law Enforcement in NJ I find it personally insulting when someone in a sworn capacity, especially some 25yo with no experience, starts spouting BS about how he's better than the citizens he's supposed to be serving. You are the cop that gives all Law Enforcement Professionals a bad name in this state and I highly recommend you change your attitude or find a different career.