Question on wife using my gun for HD

[Dan 177]

Hah at the Bill Clinton comment, pretty funny.

 

I still think my argument holds water though.

[Old School 611]

Is this thread about getting rid of your wife? What's the damned obsession about?

 

Pick up a weapon, not necessarrily a firearm, and kill eliminate the threat.

 

It's all up to the proseccutor after that. You guys kill me! :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[Malsua 1,422]

 

Pick up a weapon, not necessarrily a firearm, and kill eliminate the threat.

 

Yes.

 

It's all up to the proseccutor after that. You guys kill me! :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

People always say that when we discuss the legal details. I'm interested in an intellectual capacity as to what the statutes actually say and mean. Trying to puzzle them out and reading arguments and counter arguments educate and inform. If you can't read past a few sentences without your eyes glossing over, it's not a topic for you.

 

I'm of an entirely different mindset where the rubber meets the road...or to be topical, where the flying projectile meets the intruder.

[Dan 177]

Is this thread about getting rid of your wife? What's the damned obsession about?

 

Pick up a weapon, not necessarrily a firearm, and kill eliminate the threat.

 

It's all up to the proseccutor after that. You guys kill me! :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

Old School, some of us find it fun to try to decipher our state's arcane and contradictory gun laws. Its become sort of an extension of the hobby for me, kind of like reloading, another example of something some people love and other's hate.

[SpecialK 193]

only if this state had wording in its Constitution that made it so there was some sort or unalienable right to defending our life and protecting our property this would be a non-issue, you know something along the lines like this...

 

 

All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

 

 

Wow to have a right to defend ones self and protect ones property that was absolute, actual, certain, definite, fixed, imprescriptible, inalienable, incapable of being surrendered, indefeasible, inviolable, lawful, prescriptive, privileged, rightful, unalterable, unimpeachable, untransferable, wouldn't that be nice?

[kenw 293]

Isn't the thesaurus a wonderful resource? And in alphabetical order, too.

[SpecialK 193]

I got that from a legal dictionary/thesaurus actually

 

I do feel bad I didn't attribute part of my post to it's source.

 

This part

"All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness."

 

I got from this website My link

 

wait a second! Hold the presses! Does that mean we do have this right? That it is the first goddamn article in the New Jersey State Constitution that gives us this right to self defense???????????????

FcuK New Jersey! Great on paper, feces in actuality.

[PK90 3,570]

I'll just leave this here, as most of it pertains to self defense for everybody.

 

My link

[Old School 611]

Yes.

 

 

 

People always say that when we discuss the legal details. I'm interested in an intellectual capacity as to what the statutes actually say and mean. Trying to puzzle them out and reading arguments and counter arguments educate and inform. If you can't read past a few sentences without your eyes glossing over, it's not a topic for you.

 

I'm of an entirely different mindset where the rubber meets the road...or to be topical, where the flying projectile meets the intruder.

 

Mark it is only a mute exersize. Have you ever been to court? The lawyer talks to the prosecutor before your case is heard and depending on #1 The attitude of the prosectutor(does he have a hidden agenda) or #2 the relationship between your lawyer and the prosecutor your fate is determined. It's not exactly the Scopes Trial.

[Dan 177]

I'll just leave this here, as most of it pertains to self defense for everybody.

 

My link

 

Good read Paul. I like this part pertaining to retired officers:

 

 

Seems many un-retired officers have it the other way around these days....

Latest example is Miami cops holding guns up to crime witness's heads in order to intimidate and take their cellphones away to be smashed on the ground to cover up any video recording evidence of police activity around the Memorial Day shooting.

[The Dark Knight 11]

Seems many un-retired officers have it the other way around these days....

Latest example is Miami cops holding guns up to crime witness's heads in order to intimidate and take their cellphones away to be smashed on the ground to cover up any video recording evidence of police activity around the Memorial Day shooting.

 

I blame the judicial system and police unions, personally. If these guys went out, acted like thugs, then a district attorney aggressively pursued the same charges they would for a criminal without a badge, and a judge/jury threw them into prison for a decade or two, you'd see police behavior straighten out very quickly. But when all these guys get is a paid suspension, a mean article about them in the local paper and maybe, maybe, MAYBE a little slap on the wrist, they are given the go-ahead to behave in this manner with impunity.

 

Once in a while you see one of these guys get sent to the pen but for every one that ends up in a cell are ten others who are back in a cop car in a matter of weeks.

[Dan 177]

Back on topic...

 

Of course all IMO, and NJ gun laws are wrought with contradictions, but this argument supports my logic above.

 

2C:58-3.1. Temporary transfer of firearms

1. a. Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-9, N.J.S.2C:58-2, N.J.S.2C:58-3 or any other statute to the contrary concerning the transfer or disposition of firearms, the legal owner, or a dealer licensed under N.J.S.2C:58-2, may temporarily transfer a handgun, rifleor shotgun to another person who is 18 years of age or older

 

 

Any other statute, such as 2C:39-6, and "disposition" (defined as "final arrangement"), i.e. keeping or carrying "any firearm".

 

e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

[Malsua 1,422]

Mark it is only a mute exersize. Have you ever been to court? The lawyer talks to the prosecutor before your case is heard and depending on #1 The attitude of the prosectutor(does he have a hidden agenda) or #2 the relationship between your lawyer and the prosecutor your fate is determined. It's not exactly the Scopes Trial.

 

I agree that it's generally a MOOT exercise, as you're will primarly be dependent upon prosecutorial benevolence to stay out of jail.

 

I've been to court, I was on several juries, including one for Heroin possession in Newark. I also read a lot and I used to work with a Law firm and the Holmes county Ohio prosecutor. I was always hearing bits and pieces about they way lawyers and prosecutors work and think and it ain't like you and I think.

 

A competent defense lawyer can introduce enough doubt at a trial to get you clear. Know the law, knowing these arguments can't hurt even if it's just flapping jaws. If nothing else, it cements the idea in everyone's head that the entirety of 2c about guns needs tossed and re-written.

[Old School 611]

I agree that it's generally a MOOT exercise, as you're will primarly be dependent upon prosecutorial benevolence to stay out of jail.

 

I've been to court, I was on several juries, including one for Heroin possession in Newark. I also read a lot and I used to work with a Law firm and the Holmes county Ohio prosecutor. I was always hearing bits and pieces about they way lawyers and prosecutors work and think and it ain't like you and I think.

 

A competent defense lawyer can introduce enough doubt at a trial to get you clear. Know the law, knowing these arguments can't hurt even if it's just flapping jaws. If nothing else, it cements the idea in everyone's head that the entirety of 2c about guns needs tossed and re-written.

 

Agreed Mark... This probably has value if it only prevents one member from flagrently violating the law.

[tommy3rd 132]

I agree it's stupid, but I don't want to risk getting into trouble.

if someone breaks into your house while you're away and your wife is home, would you really worry that you'll get in trouble? my wife doesn't have a permit, but i tell her "honey, if someone breaks in and you feel like you're in danger, just call 911 and shoot the mofo. i'll take care of the lawyers."

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Is this thread about getting rid of your wife? What's the damned obsession about?

 

Pick up a weapon, not necessarrily a firearm, and kill eliminate the threat.

 

It's all up to the proseccutor after that. You guys kill me! :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

That's the answer to this thread and should've ended right here!

My wife has no FID or anything. She knows where the guns are and won't hesitate to take care of business. Worry about the scumbag lawyers afterwords, Because she and my daughter will be ALIVE!

[msg73 1]

Of course if their lives are in danger, then all bets are off...do whatever is necessary. However, this doens't mean that we shouldn't be responsible to proactively do what we can to stay within the law. Wouldn't it be better if my wife shot someone defending her and the kid's lives legally without having to "deal with the lawyers" afterward?

 

What I got from this thread (thanks to all that responded) was that 1) long guns are fine with the proper COE's filled out (both parties have FID) to legally transfer back and forth for her to use for HD and 2) it's not legal (not 100% sure though) for my wife to use my handgun when I'm not there.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm home with my wife, then can she handle my handgun (ex: backing me up) as I'm with her? Or, can I take her to the range and have her shoot my HG for practice? I believe so, but not 100% sure.

 

Thanks again.

[LorenzoS 100]

Seriously, if your home defense plan in any way involves the legalities of whose gun is whose then you are doing it wrong. There are many things to consider in your defense plan, including clarity on when you should / should not use deadly force. The question of whether one of you using the other's gun is an illegal transfer is NOT, repeat NOT, an issue.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Of course if their lives are in danger, then all bets are off...do whatever is necessary. However, this doens't mean that we shouldn't be responsible to proactively do what we can to stay within the law. Wouldn't it be better if my wife shot someone defending her and the kid's lives legally without having to "deal with the lawyers" afterward?

 

What I got from this thread (thanks to all that responded) was that 1) long guns are fine with the proper COE's filled out (both parties have FID) to legally transfer back and forth for her to use for HD and 2) it's not legal (not 100% sure though) for my wife to use my handgun when I'm not there.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm home with my wife, then can she handle my handgun (ex: backing me up) as I'm with her? Or, can I take her to the range and have her shoot my HG for practice? I believe so, but not 100% sure.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

before I respond.. I HAVE to ask.. due to questions like "filling out COE for a HD situation.." and even more interestingly her "backing you up".. but are you trolling?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

 

 

Handle the intruder then deal with the aftermath.

[BRaptor 68]

Of course if their lives are in danger, then all bets are off...do whatever is necessary. However, this doens't mean that we shouldn't be responsible to proactively do what we can to stay within the law. Wouldn't it be better if my wife shot someone defending her and the kid's lives legally without having to "deal with the lawyers" afterward?

 

What I got from this thread (thanks to all that responded) was that 1) long guns are fine with the proper COE's filled out (both parties have FID) to legally transfer back and forth for her to use for HD and 2) it's not legal (not 100% sure though) for my wife to use my handgun when I'm not there.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm home with my wife, then can she handle my handgun (ex: backing me up) as I'm with her? Or, can I take her to the range and have her shoot my HG for practice? I believe so, but not 100% sure.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

Hey Mike,

 

Want to Fu$# with the NJSP a little? Do this (***this is not legal advice, and is probably a bad idea for you to actually do***)(also, be cautious of OGAM):

 

1) File a COE for a "one-half, undivided interest" in each long-arm to your wife (one at a time). That way, you are both "tenants in common" for the long arms. That means you both own the long arms and have the rights to fully "use and enjoy" each long arm without having to get the other's permission or without them needing to be in the vicinity.

 

2) File PPP's for a "one-half, undividied interest" in each pistol to your wife. That way, you are both "tenants in common" for the handguns. That means you both own the pistols and have the rights to fully "use and enjoy" each pistol without having to get the other's permission or without them needing to be in the vicinity.

 

So, technically, after those "transfers," you guys both own any HD firearms and it doesn't matter who uses them in an HD situation.

 

 

P.S.

If you actually go forward with this really crazy/bad idea, I would be curious to know what the NJSP or NJ Attorney General had to say about the transfers after they receive the paper work.

[bry@n 195]

personally I would prefer my wife act and worry later. Being safe is what's most important.

 

 

 

Now in my position, she shoots. Has her own firearm and practices with it. So it is not a concern.

[djg0770 481]

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

emphasis above added by me

 

 

Here are the sections that e above exempts you from:

 

Unlawful possession of weapons.

 

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

Basically, you don't need an FPID in your home, you don't need a pistol permit in your home, you don't need a carry permit in your home.

[PK90 3,570]

Basically, you don't need an FPID in your home, you don't need a pistol permit in your home, you don't need a carry permit in your home.

 

+100000000000000000000

[Sixtytwo327 14]

before I respond.. I HAVE to ask.. due to questions like "filling out COE for a HD situation.." and even more interestingly her "backing you up".. but are you trolling?

 

Wondered the same thing on page 1...

[mipafox 438]

In a perfect world, you each have your own guns and would defend your own lives with your own gun.

 

In a legitimate home defense situation in which it is ruled a justifiable homicide, I don't believe any prosecutor would press charges on the victim for an "illegal transfer". It can be argued that the exemptions cover the home...maybe, maybe not, who knows, it doesn't matter. Have your spouse protect herself and others in the home, asinine laws be damned.

 

I'm speechless that this is a topic of discussion. Best of luck.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

This thread is pissing me off. COE's and FIDs and permits and whatever is all bullsh1t! Enough of the ideas and tricks and swindling of guns, just us it as needed!

[mipafox 438]

This thread is pissing me off. COE's and FIDs and permits and whatever is all bullsh1t! Enough of the ideas and tricks and swindling of guns, just us it as needed!

 

 

Get some pitchforks, torches, and 10,000 of your closest friends, and go down there and give them the what for.

 

Or, get two friends, check the legislative schedule, and go down there and bang on doors and record their responses and post them on video sharing sites so the rest of country starts humiliating them.

 

Or, just complain on NJGunforums.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Lock this thread, I'm gonna strangle myself with some of these responses. What is your wife gonna do, use a bat cause it's not her gun?!? Jesus Christ, common sense isn't that common!

[mipafox 438]

Ray Ray, calm down. I know that never comes across well, I never like to hear it. You and your family are the most important things. NJ sucks stretched donkey cock that was modified over the course of years on the penis enlargement forums, but count your blessings.

 

What was Jesus asked about? I think it was Love, Faith, or Hope (somebody will correct me). He said Love was the most important thing.

 

And fugg NJ.