NJ Passes public workers health/pension reform

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Well, i'm not sure which district this is but many do not operate in such a manner.

 

 

Agreed. My mother inlaw district is very strict. But how many aren't?

 

What ever happens in the end, some people will be hurt and upset. Sad, but true.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Parenting. Final answer.

 

so parents who are rich do a good job raising kids to learn in school? but those in less wealthy areas have bad parents?

kind of a bold statement.. but if true then what are we as a society going to do to fix it?

 

agree to disagree if you will.. but the standard should be the same across the board.. pushing kids through the school system in an attempt to not "leave them behind" is only doing a disservice to them and society.. if you don't learn.. you shouldn't graduate..

[JackDaWack 2,895]

so parents who are rich do a good job raising kids to learn in school? but those in less wealthy areas have bad parents?

kind of a bold statement.. but if true then what are we as a society going to do to fix it?

 

agree to disagree if you will.. but the standard should be the same across the board.. pushing kids through the school system in an attempt to not "leave them behind" is only doing a disservice to them and society.. if you don't learn.. you shouldn't graduate..

Believe it or not if you have been to some of the schools parent meetings its actually not that far off. I'n not saying its 100% correct, but there seems to be a correlation between parent involvement in poor ares compared to wealth ones. One of the biggest factors we came across was the fact that many parents had zero contact with the schools because they were illegal. They could be excellent parents, but u need to be involved with the school your child is in. However, many contextual factors are responsible for students achievement.

 

Just as an example, my little brother was a "problem child". Was always in trouble at school, the rest of use(siblings) never made a peep and always did well. He needed someone at the school to look after his best interests, and the only person who did so was my father. It brought him closer with my brother and got him in a program and classes that worked for him, instead of the school wanting to just push him through. A year ago we weren't sure if he would be attending college and now he got a scholarship and is going to a very good school... if my father let him slide through the system he would probably have failed this year.

 

The fact is not rich or wealthy, its just whether or not your involved with your kids education.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Oops I revise my statement - parenting and parental participation..... and the environment.

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

The fact is not rich or wealthy,

 

and I agree.. completely.. so with that said.. the standard should be EXACTLY the same..

 

 

when you have people who are unequal.. and you want to lend them a hand pulling out of the bad aiding them in obtaining equality.. you have to be careful.. if the system is more generous to those who do NOT succeed.. it becomes far easier to fail.. than to strive.. and when that is the case all you do is breed people who don't want to do for themselves because someone else will do for them.. I feel that our society has fallen too far into that trap.. at some point you have to treat people equally, if you ever want them to be equal..

 

that is not to say people with specific real documented learning disabilities don't need some extra help.. but I am more saying that it is NOT OK for someone from a "good area" to be expected to obtain a "10" but then only expect a "6" from the person in a "bad" area.... the standard should be the standard..

 

but that is kind of WAY off from this whole teacher thing..

[KpdPipes 388]

This bill is just good ole fashion union busting. Thats it. Chris Christie will not even consider any compromise put forth by any of the unions. I totally agree with Mark WVU. It seemed like everyone only gave a crap when the economy went down the toilet but the politicians on both sides were signing these contracts left and right years ago when the economy was great. How about consolidating the school districts? Why does every town need 1 high paid superintendent ? They always go after the guys making less money. I totally agree that the spending got out of control with these sweet heart union contracts but why is Christie showing so much hate toward the teachers??? He makes it seem like a large percentage of teachers are underperforming and this is just not the case. I don't care where you work. There will always be some idiot underperforming that skates by without getting fired for a long time. The teacher bashing is just out of hand.

 

I cant speak for the Teachers, but Both Police Unions and the Fire Union have put forward Several suggestions that would have fixed the Pension problem, STARTING with Increasing our Contributions. We tried this THREE years ago, and were turned down, it's been brought up several times with the current administration, But Christie doesnt want to hear it. I've said it before and i'll say it again WHERE WAS YOUR OUTRAGE when Whitman Started to NOT Pay into the pensions??? Where was your outrage when the Pickle Pirate and Codey, and then Corzine continued it???? The Same politicians YOU GUYS ARE LISTENING TO NOW are the ones who have been raping you for your taxes, and you guys are buying their Bullsh!T like Ice Cream.... You want to know why the PERS sustem is bankrupt?? and PFRS isnt?, because WE dont have Double-triple-whatever Dippers. We TRIED to fix this, but the scumbags in Trenton didnt want to hear it. You guys kiss Christie's a** all you want..I dont want to hear what a POS he is when the next round of Gun laws goes on his desk and get signed.

[Springfield1911 22]

I am totally on your side! I never understood how Whitman got away with ruining the pension by "diverting" $1 Billion to "balance" the budget. That is just insane. She pretty much screwed all the taxpayers in my opinion.

Oh yea.. Pickle Pirate..LOL thats a good one...never heard that one before!

I cant speak for the Teachers, but Both Police Unions and the Fire Union have put forward Several suggestions that would have fixed the Pension problem, STARTING with Increasing our Contributions. We tried this THREE years ago, and were turned down, it's been brought up several times with the current administration, But Christie doesnt want to hear it. I've said it before and i'll say it again WHERE WAS YOUR OUTRAGE when Whitman Started to NOT Pay into the pensions??? Where was your outrage when the Pickle Pirate and Codey, and then Corzine continued it???? The Same politicians YOU GUYS ARE LISTENING TO NOW are the ones who have been raping you for your taxes, and you guys are buying their Bullsh!T like Ice Cream.... You want to know why the PERS sustem is bankrupt?? and PFRS isnt?, because WE dont have Double-triple-whatever Dippers. We TRIED to fix this, but the scumbags in Trenton didnt want to hear it. You guys kiss Christie's a** all you want..I dont want to hear what a POS he is when the next round of Gun laws goes on his desk and get signed.

[tbtrout 141]

I keep wanting to respond in this thread but I can't, so I wrote this instead. Half of you would understand my response, half of you would argue it and all of you would have something to say about it. So there, let's line up the dead horses. :thsmiley_deadhorse: :thsmiley_deadhorse: :thsmiley_deadhorse: :thsmiley_deadhorse: :thsmiley_deadhorse: :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[maideneddie 35]

As a public worker in this state all I have to add in this conversation is that we are ALL one step closer to being COMPLETELY F'ed in this state as a whole. Screwing the people that work for this state will in the big scheme of things do nothing to correct our current situation. I know that as of currently we state workers are the demonized ones that are supposedly the root cause of NJ's financial woes, but the truth is that misappropriation of funds and poor governmental structure is really what is to blame. When you have a society that is more or less run by the people that have the most financial clout (and money themselves) of course the will always be a personal agenda.

 

So ride the wave and bash us that work to serve all of you and allow us to lose what we have legally earned. In the end you will see that this will in no way effect your property tax bill, your health care bill, 401k, electric or whatever is pissing you off at the moment. Just remember though that when your street isn't plowed good enough, or full of pot holes, need a cop but your towns PD was cut or disbanded like mine, no longer have garbage pick-up, house burns down due to fire dept cuts, or closures, or your kid is not getting the same education they were getting don't get mad because you agreed that we state workers were the ones screwing you....the NJ tax payer. Kind of ironic isn't it, us state workers are tax payers also.

 

Just don't cry to me when your town shoves it up your a** next year when you get your tax bill, because the bottom line is taxes go up not down.....

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I cant speak for the Teachers, but Both Police Unions and the Fire Union have put forward Several suggestions that would have fixed the Pension problem, STARTING with Increasing our Contributions. We tried this THREE years ago, and were turned down, it's been brought up several times with the current administration, But Christie doesnt want to hear it. I've said it before and i'll say it again WHERE WAS YOUR OUTRAGE when Whitman Started to NOT Pay into the pensions??? Where was your outrage when the Pickle Pirate and Codey, and then Corzine continued it???? The Same politicians YOU GUYS ARE LISTENING TO NOW are the ones who have been raping you for your taxes, and you guys are buying their Bullsh!T like Ice Cream.... You want to know why the PERS sustem is bankrupt?? and PFRS isnt?, because WE dont have Double-triple-whatever Dippers. We TRIED to fix this, but the scumbags in Trenton didnt want to hear it. You guys kiss Christie's a** all you want..I dont want to hear what a POS he is when the next round of Gun laws goes on his desk and get signed.

The teachers unions have been doing the same thing, although many would like you to think otherwise. The suggestions which were put forward meant the state needed to overhaul the system so it would work for the people. However the state wants the people to work for the system. They suggested having bids on health care contracts to increase competition, but this means the state doesn't get all those nice kick backs, the ones we never seem to see.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Why should a private worker have to pay for a public workers benefits AFTER they have retired?

 

Why should a private worker have to pay for a public workers pension? Why do they have pensions in the first place?

 

 

I don't think it is right to take anything away from people who have already been promised certain things in their contracts, however it's time to future proof the system by requiring all new hires to fund their own retirement with a possible small match from the govt, do away with health benefits for life, and require them to put more towards their current health plans. I really don't think it's too much to ask

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Why should a private worker have to pay for a public workers benefits AFTER they have retired?

 

Why should a private worker have to pay for a public workers pension? Why do they have pensions in the first place?

 

 

I don't think it is right to take anything away from people who have already been promised certain things in their contracts, however it's time to future proof the system by requiring all new hires to fund their own retirement with a possible small match from the govt, do away with health benefits for life, and require them to put more towards their current health plans. I really don't think it's too much to ask

Why not just privatize the whole public sector then? This way if your going to treat public workers like privatizes entities they can at least be held to the same standards. The cops can fund themselves through citations, schools through tuition...if you can afford it and the firefighters can charge for calls. Is it wrong to support the people which work/ed for you. Although i may tend to agree that people would follow the law more frequently, be more careful about things that catch on fire, and kick(figuratively) there kids when they do poorly in school.

[matty 810]

Who you calling a Christie fan, Willis? The only way the situation is gonna change is to get rid of the same old pols, that keep getting voted back in again and again, by unions or annoyed taxpayers, take your pick. Why'd the biggest unions go all in for McLyncheevey and Corcrosszine? How's the PBA/FOP/CWA/NJEA honchos making out with yer union dues, fellas? Are they worried about their pensions or healthcare? Is that Champion of Unions, Ironworker Sweeney ( a subsidiary of Norcross, Inc.) Or J Fletcher Creamer? Hovnanian? Stavola? Carla Katz? Agree that the root cause in NJ at least was the diversion of pension monies. Once the pols saw they could get away with it, it was off to the races. When NJ ran a surplus, it should have gone in to make up for previous deferred contributions. But how would that benefit the Party Bosses? Better for them to have the money to steal and hand out to their cronies. Ye'll get no disagreement from me that you all are getting the rug pulled out from under ya, if you have any constructive suggestions on how to un-a** the oinkers from the statehouse, that is legal, and morally defensible, I am all ears. Sorry it's your turn in the barrel, but my brother has been under/unemployed for going on 3 years now, and I have a 2 hr commute one way to keep my health insurance I need. IMHO the 'reform' is 99.999% horse pooh to make Lardass & Brown-nose look like they are 'doing something'. Feh.

 

 

I cant speak for the Teachers, but Both Police Unions and the Fire Union have put forward Several suggestions that would have fixed the Pension problem, STARTING with Increasing our Contributions. We tried this THREE years ago, and were turned down, it's been brought up several times with the current administration, But Christie doesnt want to hear it. I've said it before and i'll say it again WHERE WAS YOUR OUTRAGE when Whitman Started to NOT Pay into the pensions??? Where was your outrage when the Pickle Pirate and Codey, and then Corzine continued it???? The Same politicians YOU GUYS ARE LISTENING TO NOW are the ones who have been raping you for your taxes, and you guys are buying their Bullsh!T like Ice Cream.... You want to know why the PERS sustem is bankrupt?? and PFRS isnt?, because WE dont have Double-triple-whatever Dippers. We TRIED to fix this, but the scumbags in Trenton didnt want to hear it. You guys kiss Christie's a** all you want..I dont want to hear what a POS he is when the next round of Gun laws goes on his desk and get signed.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Why not just privatize the whole public sector then? This way if your going to treat public workers like privatizes entities they can at least be held to the same standards. The cops can fund themselves through citations, schools through tuition...if you can afford it and the firefighters can charge for calls. Is it wrong to support the people which work/ed for you. Although i may tend to agree that people would follow the law more frequently, be more careful about things that catch on fire, and kick(figuratively) there kids when they do poorly in school.

 

 

Why are you answering my question with a question? You aren't answering the questions I posed.

 

There is nothing wrong with supporting the people who are WORKING for me. There is however a problem with supporting an able bodied adult who is NOT WORKING anymore.

 

Anytime you buy a product or service, you are supporting the people who work for you, even if you don't see their faces. If your local butcher retires after 25 years would you keep paying him money for a product and service you were no longer receiving? I'll answer for you. You won't. So why should we?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Why are you answering my question with a question? You aren't answering the questions I posed.

 

There is nothing wrong with supporting the people who are WORKING for me. There is however a problem with supporting an able bodied adult who is NOT WORKING anymore.

 

Anytime you buy a product or service you are supporting the people people who work for you, even if you don't see their faces. If your local butcher retires after 25 years would you keep paying him money for a product and service you were no longer receiving? I'll answer for you. You won't. So why should we?

In all honesty it keeps the public sector competitive. If the state didn't offer incentives who do you think would be applying for these jobs? I understand there is a lot of dead weight in the system right now, but going in...it is very hard to get positions and extremely competitive.. When you cut all the incentives, no one will want the jobs and all you will be left with are people who use it as a last resort. Just like going into the private sector, there is risk and reward, more risk more reward. In the public sector everything is set fourth, a new public worker will roughly know how much they will be making when they retire and what is at the end of their career, less risk less reward.

A butcher of 25 years has 25 years to master his business and make lots of money, or run it into the ground. A public worker does not have such opportunities.

 

My cousin just had an interview at a school for a single position that had over 1,000 applicants.

 

I understand where your coming from, and believe me many people close to me feel the same way as you.

[KpdPipes 388]

Who you calling a Christie fan, Willis? The only way the situation is gonna change is to get rid of the same old pols, that keep getting voted back in again and again, by unions or annoyed taxpayers, take your pick. Why'd the biggest unions go all in for McLyncheevey and Corcrosszine? How's the PBA/FOP/CWA/NJEA honchos making out with yer union dues, fellas? Are they worried about their pensions or healthcare? Is that Champion of Unions, Ironworker Sweeney ( a subsidiary of Norcross, Inc.) Or J Fletcher Creamer? Hovnanian? Stavola? Carla Katz? Agree that the root cause in NJ at least was the diversion of pension monies. Once the pols saw they could get away with it, it was off to the races. When NJ ran a surplus, it should have gone in to make up for previous deferred contributions. But how would that benefit the Party Bosses? Better for them to have the money to steal and hand out to their cronies. Ye'll get no disagreement from me that you all are getting the rug pulled out from under ya, if you have any constructive suggestions on how to un-a** the oinkers from the statehouse, that is legal, and morally defensible, I am all ears. Sorry it's your turn in the barrel, but my brother has been under/unemployed for going on 3 years now, and I have a 2 hr commute one way to keep my health insurance I need. IMHO the 'reform' is 99.999% horse pooh to make Lardass & Brown-nose look like they are 'doing something'. Feh.

Every person involved with the PBA is also a Cop..President, board members, delegates ect. I'm pretty happy with how my Union dues are spent.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

This is horse $hit. My wife works for the Salem county board of social services (welfare office) she is 30 and has worked there since she was 21 right out of college. Everyother week she brings home $1200. So those of you who had bad teachers that $600 a week. In this day and age that isn't sh!t. The benefits were the only reason that job was worth having. A college degree is required so you have a big loan to pay off on top of it. For this $600 a week you deal with some of the lowest forms of life around. I mean real scumbags. Child molesters, murderers, rapists, crackheads and people with all kinds of infectious deseases. Multiple times her tires have been slashed or her car has been keyed. Guess who has to pay for it. Me. One worker got ran down in the parking lot by a car. We grocery shop out of county, send kids to private schools because of these scum bags. Countless times my wife has been screamed at by

[Shawnmoore81 623]

These people. They have called her parents house on w/e's because their number was listed, bothered her on Facebook. All this for $600 a week. If her pay gets cut they can take that job and shove it up their a**. Nobody should have to deal with that kind of environment

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Btw I told her to quit countless times but she won't because of the money she has invested in her pension.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Btw I told her to quit countless times but she won't because of the money she has invested in her pension.

 

 

and there is your answer... at the end of the day it is a choice... does this job compensate me enough that it is worth it for me to be here... once that answer is no.. then she should leave.. no one forces her to go to work every day.. it is a free choice she makes.. not being rude or anything but at the end of the day we choose where we work..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

A butcher of 25 years has 25 years to master his business and make lots of money, or run it into the ground. A public worker does not have such opportunities.

 

 

Why not??? I'll tell you I have been funding my own retirement from the time I was a teenager.

 

My father taught me very early in life that you are not handed things, you are not entitled to them, you have to work for them, so ever paycheck from the time I started working, (Granted at 16 and 17 years old I had a little help) but from 18 on I have paid myself first, put money away, invested and guess what, I budgeted myself to live on what was left after that. Yes I may have not had all the toys a lot of other people have but its damn nice to be 45 and looking at 5 more years and I can decide if I want to work anymore or retire completely. I gave that to myself, no body else did.

 

Harry

[Babaganoosh 192]

These people. They have called her parents house on w/e's because their number was listed, bothered her on Facebook. All this for $600 a week. If her pay gets cut they can take that job and shove it up their a**. Nobody should have to deal with that kind of environment

 

Bringing home 600 a week is approx 50k a year. While it's not great it's not terrible either. There are plenty of people out there who would love that job. A lot of social workers make less than that. They do it because they like to help people, not for the money.

 

I still do not think the taxpayers should have to pay her, or her benefits once she stops working. You should get what you put into the system, plua a small percentage match, plus accrued interest and that's it. Taxpayers should not be on the hook for someone who is no longer contributing to society

[vladtepes 1,060]

Bringing home 600 a week is approx 50k a year. While it's not great it's not terrible either. There are plenty of people out there who would love that job. A lot of social workers make less than that. They do it because they like to help people, not for the money.

 

I still do not think the taxpayers should have to pay her, or her benefits once she stops working. You should get what you put into the system, plua a small percentage match, plus accrued interest and that's it. Taxpayers should not be on the hook for someone who is no longer contributing to society

 

 

to take it a step further.. his wife makes 50k.. I am sure he at least makes 40k? so that is 90k+ a year.. hardly tough to get by..

[Babaganoosh 192]

that is 90k+ a year.. hardly tough to get by..

 

 

I dunno, maybe where you live but here in Monmouth County 90k isn't a lot. Don't get me wrong, I only make about 55k a year myself right now. I am single so I have to pay all my own bills. Stuff is expensive here. I live in a really small apt and it costs me 900 bucks a month. In another state this place would be like 400 a month. Electric is 60 a month, gas is 50. I split my cable and internet with my upstairs neighbor and that's 45 bucks a month. My cell phone is 80 (no land line) Car insurance is 70 (liability only. My car is paid off thank god. Thats 1260 bucks a month on the bare necessities although you could argue the cell phone. That's no gas in my car, no food in my mouth, no food for the dog, nothing. So someone who makes 50k a year spends over half his or her paychecks a month on the bare minimum to live. That's not really a good ratio. Now I am not poor, but I am not wealthy by any means. I look around up here and half the cars you see driving around are luxary cars. Lexus, Acura, BMW, Mercedes. No kidding. Even people 20-25 years old are rocking really nice cars. I just don't know where they all get the money from. What do they all do for work?

 

Maybe I should just get a gf, move in together and split the bills? Maybe a roommate? I really don't want a roommate at age 34 but I know a lot of people who do since the cost of living is so high. Point being that although 90k sounds like a decent amount, in some areas of NJ it isn't ****.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I dunno, maybe where you live but here in Monmouth County 90k isn't a lot. Don't get me wrong, I only make about 55k a year myself right now. I am single so I have to pay all my own bills. Stuff is expensive here. I live in a really small apt and it costs me 900 bucks a month. In another state this place would be like 400 a month. Electric is 60 a month, gas is 50. I split my cable and internet with my upstairs neighbor and that's 45 bucks a month. My cell phone is 80 (no land line) Car insurance is 70 (liability only. My car is paid off thank god. Thats 1260 bucks a month on the bare necessities although you could argue the cell phone. That's no gas in my car, no food in my mouth, no food for the dog, nothing. So someone who makes 50k a year spends over half his or her paychecks a month on the bare minimum to live. That's not really a good ratio. Now I am not poor, but I am not wealthy by any means. I look around up here and half the cars you see driving around are luxary cars. Lexus, Acura, BMW, Mercedes. No kidding. Even people 20-25 years old are rocking really nice cars. I just don't know where they all get the money from. What do they all do for work?

 

Maybe I should just get a gf, move in together and split the bills? Maybe a roommate? I really don't want a roommate at age 34 but I know a lot of people who do since the cost of living is so high. Point being that although 90k sounds like a decent amount, in some areas of NJ it isn't ****.

 

 

things are all relative...

 

if you make a certain amount of money.. and spend the majority of it "just living" then it is time to make some hard choices.. they may involve change in job.. moving.. reductions in spending... at the end of the day you "need" a roof over your head.. and food on the table.. despite what popular culture tells us high speed internet.. $5 lattes... and a car that costs 10s of thousands of dollars.. are all luxuries not needs..

[vjf915 456]

Bringing home 600 a week is approx 50k a year.

$600/week times 52 weeks = $31,200/year.

[vladtepes 1,060]

$600/week times 52 weeks = $31,200/year.

 

 

he was probably talking before taxes.. rounding etc.. just "estimating".. when someone says that it is a "$70k a year job" or "triple figure salary" they are normally talking pretax and other deductions.. or at least that has been my experience..

[vjf915 456]

he was probably talking before taxes.. rounding etc.. just "estimating".. when someone says that it is a "$70k a year job" or "triple figure salary" they are normally talking pretax and other deductions.. or at least that has been my experience..

I'll have to disagree with you for one reason...

Bringing home 600 a week is approx 50k a year.

He used the phrase "bringing home". When someone uses that phrase, they are referring to after taxes.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'll have to disagree with you for one reason...

 

He used the phrase "bringing home". When someone uses that phrase, they are referring to after taxes.

 

 

right.. once more..

 

when you say "I have a $50k a year job" you are not NORMALLY talking about BEFORE deductions.. in fact some companies even send out "statements" showing you the "value" of your employment.. and they are including the money you make pre-taxes, health insurance, etc.. granted there are no jobs I am aware of where a $50k a year job equates to $30k a year take home.. I am just saying you are being overly critical.. as "brings home about 600 a week" "that is like a $50k a year job" well maybe it is not 600 a week.. maybe it is a little more.. I am just saying he was not saying "she makes exactly $52,490 a year.. that is ridiculous.." he was saying "that is like a $50k a year job.." I do not believe he was trying to be exact.....

[GRIZ 3,369]

There's been a lot of argument about the state matching for pensions. Many forgot if they work for someone else your employer is paying like 7.5% for Social Security.