Poll! Best firearm for home defense

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Nothing says home defense like a 12 ga.

 

Copy that. But I have a Glock 23 handy as well.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Wow, you are totally lost. You want a full-auto sub gun for home defense? Unless your expecting a hoard of Bolivian drug dealers to take you out leave the sub gun in the safe.

 

And revolvers aren't difficult to shoot or reload. Learn the wheel-gun and how to run it and she'll do the job.

 

The thread is: "best firearm for personal defense"

 

Your home is close quarters environment where your potential invader can easily be within breathing distance of you in a few foot steps. It's also gonna be dark. You're also gonna be tired (if it's a 'bump in the night scenario'), and you're gonna want all your gun stuff in one place where you can reach it. You also won't be wearing hearing protection either.

 

Dunno about you, but if I had a choice, I would suppress all my guns that are intended for HD for that last reason alone. Shooting without hearing protection in an enclosed environment pretty much guarantees deafness. Also... guns tend to have a nice little muzzle flash which may ruin your night vision (aka your eyes adjusted to the dark).

 

Full auto/burst fire is an awesome feature for a subgun... it kinda gives you some advantages of a shotgun, without the whole "shotgun" part as it lets you put rounds down range into a target at will.

 

Like I said: "in an ideal world"... you know, one where the 2nd Amendment is respected, and folks can easily pick up an MP5 Navy suppressed.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

The thread is: "best firearm for personal defense"

 

Your home is close quarters environment where your potential invader can easily be within breathing distance of you in a few foot steps. It's also gonna be dark. You're also gonna be tired (if it's a 'bump in the night scenario'), and you're gonna want all your gun stuff in one place where you can reach it. You also won't be wearing hearing protection either.

 

Dunno about you, but if I had a choice, I would suppress all my guns that are intended for HD for that last reason alone. Shooting without hearing protection in an enclosed environment pretty much guarantees deafness. Also... guns tend to have a nice little muzzle flash which may ruin your night vision (aka your eyes adjusted to the dark).

 

Full auto/burst fire is an awesome feature for a subgun... it kinda gives you some advantages of a shotgun, without the whole "shotgun" part as it lets you put rounds down range into a target at will.

 

Like I said: "in an ideal world"... you know, one where the 2nd Amendment is respected, and folks can easily pick up an MP5 Navy suppressed.

 

 

No No and No

 

You'll empty the magazine in no time. I hope that you will rethink your "hopeful choice" and realize that it's not a good one.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

No No and No

 

You'll empty the magazine in no time. I hope that you will rethink your "hopeful choice" and realize that it's not a good one.

 

Not if you practice.

 

Worse comes to worse, it's a select-fire weapon, and you can always go semi-auto.

 

I don't see how any of the other options beats this...

 

semi-auto handgun: hard to aim, limited firepower

revolver: capacity blows chunks

shotgun: pretty awesome, limited capacity (typically 5 or 6 unless you really rice it up)

carbine/rifle: getting there...

 

Oh yeah: shoot any one of those indoors and prepare to be deaf and blind.

 

An NFA sub-machine gun with a suppressor and the other important accouterments has all of the advantages for a wide variety of home invasion scenarios. It's quiet, it's dark, it can sling some heavy lead a short distance, and the recoil is pretty light.

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Well Adam, give Sosa my regards. And say hello to my little friend.

[Old School 611]

12 gauge bird shot. Will make the intruder look like the following, but won't penetrate any walls:

 

 

 

(Actually, my vote is "other", pistol caliber carbine)

 

 

You racist!

[tbtrout 141]

The Vidoe Game Warriors came for this thread.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Well Adam, give Sosa my regards. And say hello to my little friend.

 

 

But for real Ray Ray, what's wrong with my suggestion for "best Home defense"?

 

Outside of the obvious legal and financial disadvantages... but my assumption is that in an ideal firearms world, such items wouldn't be as restricted as they are.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

The Vidoe Game Warriors came for this thread.

 

I hardly consider my suggestion a "video game" one. But if you lack the imagination to truly envision a great home defense weapon, than do tell: what would you consider the best? And why?

[Krdshrk 3,878]

 

But for real Ray Ray, what's wrong with my suggestion for "best Home defense"?

 

Outside of the obvious legal and financial disadvantages... but my assumption is that in an ideal firearms world, such items wouldn't be as restricted as they are.

 

Full auto is difficult to control at best. Would you REALLY want to shoot up your own house?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Full auto is difficult to control at best. Would you REALLY want to shoot up your own house?

 

As the video I posted shows, the lack of control is simply not true.

 

As for shooting up your entire house, the same is true with a shotgun, and more so with a rifle. A pistol caliber in .45acp shooting subsonics however...

[hd2000fxdl 422]

As the video I posted shows, the lack of control is simply not true.

 

As for shooting up your entire house, the same is true with a shotgun, and more so with a rifle. A pistol caliber in .45acp shooting subsonics however...

 

Dude, Really??

 

F/A HD, I'd hate to be you neighbor if you were being attacked.

 

Harry

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Dude, Really??

 

F/A HD, I'd hate to be you neighbor if you were being attacked.

 

Harry

 

Again, the difference between FA/SA aside, does it really matter if 12ga buckshot tears through your walls? 9mm/.45acp from a handgun? A 5.56 or 7.62 round? Or a .357/.44magnum?

 

Using any gun, you have the potential to miss your target and hit something you didn't intend. FA or SA. So what's the big difference then? Full-Auto is actually quite controllable with the right setup, but some folks here (who have never shot full-auto) have some Hollywood notions on the matter and sound just like the Brady Bunch folks who want to further diminish our rights.

 

"Why do you need an AR-15???" "Why do you need more than 10 bullets???" "Why do you need semi-autos???"

[Underdog 1,593]

The DA/SA twin ruger revolvers. (Do these count as one?)

 

And, their big brother, Mr. Mossberg, is always near if needed.

 

In truth, I am considering a Glock 23 w/ a couple of loaded 15-round Glock 22 mags.

[ClangClang 14]

I voted for a semiauto pistol. But to be honest, I'd say a properly trained and loyal guard dog would be the best HD tool, hands down. It will bark to alert you of an intruder's presence, will fight to the death for no regard to its own safety, and can instantly discern in the dark who is friendly or who is foe.

[MrP 81]

How in the world has anyone not mentioned the fact that if you use your NFA Firearm in a SD scenario THE COPS WILL TAKE THAT SH*T. I'm not going to have a gun a paid 15k for and waited 6 months for tax stamps for, get thrown in a squad car and stowed in some locker as evidence.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

How in the world has anyone not mentioned the fact that if you use your NFA Firearm in a SD scenario THE COPS WILL TAKE THAT SH*T. I'm not going to have a gun a paid 15k for and waited 6 months for tax stamps for, get thrown in a squad car and stowed in some locker as evidence.

 

Again, I stipulated in an ideal world where the unconstitutional legal barriers to owning an NFA weapon were simply not there.

 

In terms of parts alone, a brand new select-fire M-16 is not much more expensive than your run of the mill semi-auto. What drives the cost up are the regulations, tax stamps, and oh yeah: limited supply thanks to the Hughe's Amendment to the 1986 FOPA.

 

That NFA wouldn't cost you $15k if the law were on the right side of the US Constitution.

[Underdog 1,593]

If you defend yourself, are you going to be charged with a crime? What right does anybody have in taking your HD weapon unless you are charged with a crime? And, what are the odds of recovery? At the least, if your possession is taken and it is a handgun, you should immediately be offered a pistol permit to replace it.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

German Shepherd > Gun

 

Get a rescued shepherd, if you can. They will follow you to the ends of the earth.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

 

But for real Ray Ray, what's wrong with my suggestion for "best Home defense"?

 

12 gauge pump action shotgun

can't beat it for close quarters battle,which is exactly what home defense is

[GRIZ 3,369]

1. Agreed. But for HD, why make things harder on yourself?....2. This is true... but the vast majority of revolvers are either 5,6, or 7 shooters.... Either way, the capacity advantage is definitely with the semi-auto...a revolver would have to reload twice to keep up with a 13-15 round semi-auto magazine.

 

I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in using a revolver for HD. You have all these disadvantages with 0 real upside. I love wheel-guns, but they have been fully displaced by modern, reliable, semi-autos in almost every role outside of cowboy action shooting.

 

Semi autos have a capacity advantage without an argument. How many rounds do you think you'll use in that HD encounter? If you start with 6 you'll most likely have a couple left when its over if you can shoot. Yes more ammo is better but if you know what you're doing 6 will do unless you are being attacked by a platoon of gangbangers that were Army Rangers.

 

You've ignored the revolver advantages of having the easiest malfunction drill that you can do with one hand and the easiest manual of arms. If you have a Ruger, S&W, Colt, Dan Wesson, Korth, Charter or any other DA revolver you don't need to even look at it to know how to make it work.

 

Delegating revolvers to cowboy action shooting is demonstrates a lack of understanding.

 

Semi autos are easier to use than a revolver and high capacity appeals to the spray and pray crowd. Not saying high capacity is bad but it isn't impressive if that's the first advantage you mention. A decent trained revolver shooter (and I'm not talking Jerry Miculek) can overcome all the "faults" you mention except ammo capacity. If you refuse to take the time and effort to learn a revolver properly you're missing a lot.

 

why no carbine? been doin research, hearing good things as an option for home defense?

 

Carbines have my vote. They're easy to use, easy to aim, and (in all places except NJ) they have a greater capacity (30 rounds in most instances).

 

The only disadvantage is that you need two hands to operate them. But given the variety of light mounts and other options, it's a minor issue.

 

Disadvantages? Overpenetration unless you are using a 223/5.56 is a big one. Muzzle flash will light up things moreso with a short barrel. A flash surpressor reduces the flash from the shooters perspective but doesn't do anything to prevent the flash from lighting up the room. The biggest however they not conducive to mobility in close quarters (you don't have to turn around fully to use that handgun) and are the easiest weapon to get taken from you (as any long gun is). You can't keep that muzzle in close like you do a handgun, you will have to let that muzzle stick out a bit. That offers your opponent the leverage advantage. The same goes for guns with surpressors. Subguns are a little better but retention is still harder than a handgun.

 

Ideally, the best firearm for HD is an NFA fully-automatic or burst fire 9mm/45acp sub-machine gun fitted with a suppressor, lightweight stock, red-dot, weapon light, sling, and 30 rounds of sub-sonic hollow point ammunition.

 

This is way off base because:

 

1. A lot of people who buy a subgun really never learn how to use it.

2. A 9mm penetrates more in building materials than a 223/5.56 (FBI and other agencies have proven this). Subsonic ammo stays subsonic in a Glock 26 or MP5 so you are not getting a ballistic adavantage. Not sure how a 45ACP does but a std 230 FMJ is going close to 1000 fps from a 10-12" barrel which will enhance penetration.

3. A surpressor adds length to that subgun making it easier to take away. People don't go totally deaf firing in a confined area. I can't say how others may be affected but I have had to shoot in a confined area more than once and have been exposed to numerous other explosions without hearing protection including being on the shooting end of literally thousands of rounds of artillery (105, 155, 8" and 175). I have 70% hearing in my left ear and 50% in my right. I had to give up my dream of being a piano tuner but far from deaf.

 

My assessment of a subgun being a poor choice as a HD weapon is based on the fact that I started shooting subguns in 1968 (OJT) and as a LE Firearms Instructor for about 30 years and a subgun instructor for over 10. I thought I knew how to use a subgun after taking my agency operator's course (35-50 hrs depending how fast we progressed) but learned how much I didn't know when I went to instructor's school (about 60 hrs of instruction).

 

Since 1968 there have been only 5 years I have not had at least limited access to FA weapons due to my LE and military experience. I realize to most people shooting anything FA is quite a novelty as it would have been for me if I hadn't had the opportunities I've had. Not trying to brag just letting you know what I base my assessment on.

 

Your home is close quarters environment where your potential invader can easily be within breathing distance of you in a few foot steps. It's also gonna be dark.

 

Which is why you don't want a long gun or longer than a handgun gun so you'll be able to retain it.

 

You're also gonna be tired (if it's a 'bump in the night scenario'), and you're gonna want all your gun stuff in one place where you can reach it.

 

Which is why you want a gun with the simplest manual of arms and malfunction drill. If you put a maglite by your handgun you will also have an impact weapon.

 

 

You also won't be wearing hearing protection either.

 

 

You need to be real. There is a very small percentage of shooters that use a surpressor on a HD gun. Doing so gives your opponent a leverage advantage to take your gun away in those close quarters. Auditory exclusion will take care of the noise bothering you but not the hearing loss. Faced with the options:

 

a. lose some hearing

b. be dead

 

I'll take option A everytime.

 

Shooting without hearing protection in an enclosed environment pretty much guarantees deafness.

 

If you're saying total deafness that is false as I have related. I should have lost all my hearing in 1968.

 

As the video I posted shows, the lack of control is simply not true.

 

I disagree. The video shows lack of trigger control (you should be able to shoot a 2-3 rd burst on call), the shooter needs to improve his stance to prevent all that rocking around he's doing, and doesn't show what accuracy he's getting (you just see some dirt getting shot). If that shooter was confronted with multiple assailants the #2 bad guy has plenty of time to get effects on target at the tempo he's shooting. He needs to learn how to shoot it faster.

 

Using any gun, you have the potential to miss your target and hit something you didn't intend. FA or SA. So what's the big difference then?

 

The big difference is with a SA you shoot and miss once (unless you are doing spray and pray) there is only one stray bullet; with a FA, even if you're doing it right, you'll get at least 2 or 3 chances to hit something you didn't want to.

 

But to be honest, I'd say a properly trained and loyal guard dog would be the best HD tool, hands down.

 

Best suggestion yet! That's why I but it in bold. You can get a mutt from the pound (I have two), be nice to it, and it will adore you and protect the castle.

 

Again, I stipulated in an ideal world where the unconstitutional legal barriers to owning an NFA weapon were simply not there.

 

In an ideal world the weather would always be perfect, the water warm, the drinks cold, and no crime so we wouldn't have to talk about this at all. But its not and you have to deal with what's real.

 

 

But if you lack the imagination to truly envision a great home defense weapon, than do tell: what would you consider the best? And why?

 

I have and I have. Imagination not needed just analysis of facts from experience I have acquired from shooting for close to 45 years, Army AD, Guard and Reserve 1967 to 2010 (a few years dead time in there), over 30 years as a LEO and Firearms and Tactics Instructor, the good fortune to get to go to a lot of shooting and tactics training for free and having been put in a position where I might have to fire a shot in anger more than once.

 

I don't believe knowledge is power and am willing to share.

 

My rankings of weapons discussed for HD are:

 

1. Revolver

2. Semi Auto Handgun (if you have more than one the one you are most familiar with)

3. Pistol Caliber Carbine (if there is an issue with recoil)

4. Shotgun (I prefer a pump, extended mag nice but not required, a O/U or SxS will do)

5. 5.56 AR

 

Long, I know but there was a lot to say.

[Jon 264]

Thanks for taking the time to post that, Griz... great insight and very informative. +1

 

My choice is a semi-auto handgun lying next to a revolver. #1 choice for me is the pistol, #1 for the wifeypants is the revolver. I have put more rounds through my HD pistol than any other weapon, which is why it's my go-to. Same for the wifeypants.

[tbtrout 141]

I hardly consider my suggestion a "video game" one. But if you lack the imagination to truly envision a great home defense weapon, than do tell: what would you consider the best? And why?

Well, home defense can me many things to different people. Are you refering to someone in your home where you now have to do room clearing, or a repel borders action? Either way what works for one may not work for another. The best home defense gun is the one the the person using it can control and shoot properly. If you want to get imaginative my house could be rigged for claymores. But that is not feasable. I also would feel perfectly comfortable with a 22 pistol if that is all availible. Defending your home is more of a mindset than the gun you use. I just like how the video game generation thinks life is like whatever game they play.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Well, home defense can me many things to different people. Are you refering to someone in your home where you now have to do room clearing, or a repel borders action? Either way what works for one may not work for another. The best home defense gun is the one the the person using it can control and shoot properly. If you want to get imaginative my house could be rigged for claymores. But that is not feasable. I also would feel perfectly comfortable with a 22 pistol if that is all availible. Defending your home is more of a mindset than the gun you use. I just like how the video game generation thinks life is like whatever game they play.

 

But the thread isn't about home defense itself, it's about the best firearm. So if we're looking purely at that, then one must consider the best firearm overall.

 

Despite what GRIZ says, I still feel that the solution I put forward is probably the best all round one in terms of ease of use and a complete package.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

But the thread isn't about home defense itself, it's about the best firearm. So if we're looking purely at that, then one must consider the best firearm overall.

 

Despite what GRIZ says, I still feel that the solution I put forward is probably the best all round one in terms of ease of use and a complete package.

 

Adam, what Griz and TBtrout said is perfect. I could never imagine needing a Mac-10 or MP5 for home protection, but I guess you can.

[Shane45 807]

Just skimming through this thread. Looks like there is a discussion on FA/subguns as a HD weapon. In my opinion the disagreement stems from a position of an absolute vs a practical solution. There is also a training/proficiency component. As much as I cant even begin to fathom a subgun in mediocre hands IF WE WERE IN FANTASY LAND OF NO RESTRICTIONS I could easily see picking a subgun for myself. I have time on FA P90 and Uzi. The P90 is an incredible package for tight quarters. A 2 round burst Kriss would be interesting as well. But back to the world of the realistic, the selection of a subgun for someone inexperienced with it would of course be a disaster. A subgun is a very narrow scope weapon. So for the practical real world, my vote was my pistol.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

1. Agreed. But for HD, why make things harder on yourself?....2. This is true... but the vast majority of revolvers are either 5,6, or 7 shooters.... Either way, the capacity advantage is definitely with the semi-auto...a revolver would have to reload twice to keep up with a 13-15 round semi-auto magazine.

 

I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in using a revolver for HD. You have all these disadvantages with 0 real upside. I love wheel-guns, but they have been fully displaced by modern, reliable, semi-autos in almost every role outside of cowboy action shooting.

 

Semi autos have a capacity advantage without an argument. How many rounds do you think you'll use in that HD encounter? If you start with 6 you'll most likely have a couple left when its over if you can shoot. Yes more ammo is better but if you know what you're doing 6 will do unless you are being attacked by a platoon of gangbangers that were Army Rangers.

 

You've ignored the revolver advantages of having the easiest malfunction drill that you can do with one hand and the easiest manual of arms. If you have a Ruger, S&W, Colt, Dan Wesson, Korth, Charter or any other DA revolver you don't need to even look at it to know how to make it work.

 

Delegating revolvers to cowboy action shooting is demonstrates a lack of understanding.

 

Semi autos are easier to use than a revolver and high capacity appeals to the spray and pray crowd. Not saying high capacity is bad but it isn't impressive if that's the first advantage you mention. A decent trained revolver shooter (and I'm not talking Jerry Miculek) can overcome all the "faults" you mention except ammo capacity. If you refuse to take the time and effort to learn a revolver properly you're missing a lot.

 

why no carbine? been doin research, hearing good things as an option for home defense?

 

Carbines have my vote. They're easy to use, easy to aim, and (in all places except NJ) they have a greater capacity (30 rounds in most instances).

 

The only disadvantage is that you need two hands to operate them. But given the variety of light mounts and other options, it's a minor issue.

 

Disadvantages? Overpenetration unless you are using a 223/5.56 is a big one. Muzzle flash will light up things moreso with a short barrel. A flash surpressor reduces the flash from the shooters perspective but doesn't do anything to prevent the flash from lighting up the room. The biggest however they not conducive to mobility in close quarters (you don't have to turn around fully to use that handgun) and are the easiest weapon to get taken from you (as any long gun is). You can't keep that muzzle in close like you do a handgun, you will have to let that muzzle stick out a bit. That offers your opponent the leverage advantage. The same goes for guns with surpressors. Subguns are a little better but retention is still harder than a handgun.

 

Ideally, the best firearm for HD is an NFA fully-automatic or burst fire 9mm/45acp sub-machine gun fitted with a suppressor, lightweight stock, red-dot, weapon light, sling, and 30 rounds of sub-sonic hollow point ammunition.

 

This is way off base because:

 

1. A lot of people who buy a subgun really never learn how to use it.

2. A 9mm penetrates more in building materials than a 223/5.56 (FBI and other agencies have proven this). Subsonic ammo stays subsonic in a Glock 26 or MP5 so you are not getting a ballistic adavantage. Not sure how a 45ACP does but a std 230 FMJ is going close to 1000 fps from a 10-12" barrel which will enhance penetration.

3. A surpressor adds length to that subgun making it easier to take away. People don't go totally deaf firing in a confined area. I can't say how others may be affected but I have had to shoot in a confined area more than once and have been exposed to numerous other explosions without hearing protection including being on the shooting end of literally thousands of rounds of artillery (105, 155, 8" and 175). I have 70% hearing in my left ear and 50% in my right. I had to give up my dream of being a piano tuner but far from deaf.

 

My assessment of a subgun being a poor choice as a HD weapon is based on the fact that I started shooting subguns in 1968 (OJT) and as a LE Firearms Instructor for about 30 years and a subgun instructor for over 10. I thought I knew how to use a subgun after taking my agency operator's course (35-50 hrs depending how fast we progressed) but learned how much I didn't know when I went to instructor's school (about 60 hrs of instruction).

 

Since 1968 there have been only 5 years I have not had at least limited access to FA weapons due to my LE and military experience. I realize to most people shooting anything FA is quite a novelty as it would have been for me if I hadn't had the opportunities I've had. Not trying to brag just letting you know what I base my assessment on.

 

Your home is close quarters environment where your potential invader can easily be within breathing distance of you in a few foot steps. It's also gonna be dark.

 

Which is why you don't want a long gun or longer than a handgun gun so you'll be able to retain it.

 

You're also gonna be tired (if it's a 'bump in the night scenario'), and you're gonna want all your gun stuff in one place where you can reach it.

 

Which is why you want a gun with the simplest manual of arms and malfunction drill. If you put a maglite by your handgun you will also have an impact weapon.

 

 

You also won't be wearing hearing protection either.

 

 

You need to be real. There is a very small percentage of shooters that use a surpressor on a HD gun. Doing so gives your opponent a leverage advantage to take your gun away in those close quarters. Auditory exclusion will take care of the noise bothering you but not the hearing loss. Faced with the options:

 

a. lose some hearing

b. be dead

 

I'll take option A everytime.

 

Shooting without hearing protection in an enclosed environment pretty much guarantees deafness.

 

If you're saying total deafness that is false as I have related. I should have lost all my hearing in 1968.

 

As the video I posted shows, the lack of control is simply not true.

 

I disagree. The video shows lack of trigger control (you should be able to shoot a 2-3 rd burst on call), the shooter needs to improve his stance to prevent all that rocking around he's doing, and doesn't show what accuracy he's getting (you just see some dirt getting shot). If that shooter was confronted with multiple assailants the #2 bad guy has plenty of time to get effects on target at the tempo he's shooting. He needs to learn how to shoot it faster.

 

Using any gun, you have the potential to miss your target and hit something you didn't intend. FA or SA. So what's the big difference then?

 

The big difference is with a SA you shoot and miss once (unless you are doing spray and pray) there is only one stray bullet; with a FA, even if you're doing it right, you'll get at least 2 or 3 chances to hit something you didn't want to.

 

But to be honest, I'd say a properly trained and loyal guard dog would be the best HD tool, hands down.

 

Best suggestion yet! That's why I but it in bold. You can get a mutt from the pound (I have two), be nice to it, and it will adore you and protect the castle.

 

Again, I stipulated in an ideal world where the unconstitutional legal barriers to owning an NFA weapon were simply not there.

 

In an ideal world the weather would always be perfect, the water warm, the drinks cold, and no crime so we wouldn't have to talk about this at all. But its not and you have to deal with what's real.

 

 

But if you lack the imagination to truly envision a great home defense weapon, than do tell: what would you consider the best? And why?

 

I have and I have. Imagination not needed just analysis of facts from experience I have acquired from shooting for close to 45 years, Army AD, Guard and Reserve 1967 to 2010 (a few years dead time in there), over 30 years as a LEO and Firearms and Tactics Instructor, the good fortune to get to go to a lot of shooting and tactics training for free and having been put in a position where I might have to fire a shot in anger more than once.

 

I don't believe knowledge is power and am willing to share.

 

My rankings of weapons discussed for HD are:

 

1. Revolver

2. Semi Auto Handgun (if you have more than one the one you are most familiar with)

3. Pistol Caliber Carbine (if there is an issue with recoil)

4. Shotgun (I prefer a pump, extended mag nice but not required, a O/U or SxS will do)

5. 5.56 AR

 

Long, I know but there was a lot to say.

 

 

GRIZ, no offense, but all your basically saying is that with training, you can overcome any firearms' potential drawbacks. Whether it's a wheelgun shooter overcoming the obvious limitations in capacity and trigger pull, or the limitations in using a suppressed NFA SMG.

 

So in short: your justification for choosing whichever gun you feel is best is entirely dependent on ones' proficiency with a particular firearm. That aside (and one was proficient with any firearm equally), any of the potential drawbacks with a full-auto weapon can also be easily overcome.

 

While the youtube isn't the most stellar example of Full-auto use, for a first timer, it really wasn't all that hard to hit what I was aiming at. Bursts are easy to control, and bringing the firearm to bear was quite trivial (it's already so short combined with a red-dot). I may not have the "tacticool" experience you have, but if I were given one and only one option for HD, I would take the best one in all scenarios. A full-auto SMG, suppressed gives the defender the greatest benefit with the least amount of drawback.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Adam, what Griz and TBtrout said is perfect. I could never imagine needing a Mac-10 or MP5 for home protection, but I guess you can.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Some folks here love AKs and think they're the end all be all of HD weapons... or ARs... or wheelguns.

 

Frankly, the lack of imagination is just an extension of the typical Anti-Gun thinking... you really can't imagine a subgun for HD? What next? Can't imagine a possible need for an AR-15? Or a semi-auto shotgun? Or more than 10 rounds in a magazine? There are folks out there who don't understand why anyone one need a gun in the first place, and would rather have no one have them in the first place. Thank goodness for the 2A though right?

 

And let's be honest here Ray Ray, if a subgun were as easy and cheap to buy from a gun store as a Remington 870, I doubt very much your safe would be lacking one. Or your bedroom.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Just skimming through this thread. Looks like there is a discussion on FA/subguns as a HD weapon. In my opinion the disagreement stems from a position of an absolute vs a practical solution. There is also a training/proficiency component. As much as I cant even begin to fathom a subgun in mediocre hands IF WE WERE IN FANTASY LAND OF NO RESTRICTIONS I could easily see picking a subgun for myself. I have time on FA P90 and Uzi. The P90 is an incredible package for tight quarters. A 2 round burst Kriss would be interesting as well. But back to the world of the realistic, the selection of a subgun for someone inexperienced with it would of course be a disaster. A subgun is a very narrow scope weapon. So for the practical real world, my vote was my pistol.

 

Understood. However, there is a training/proficiency component to all firearms. With proper training, any and all firearms can be fair game. I think a lot of the objections in this thread stem from a simple lack of understanding the utility in FA weapons in a wide variety of scenarios ranging outside of HD. But we as a nation, and by an even greater extent as subjects in the Socialist State of New Jersey are brainwashed into thinking that semi-autos = ok, but full-auto = bad.

 

If we want to win the fight for our rights, we need to dispense with this mindset, and assume all things are fair game for use for whatever we desire. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect the right of the people to keep and sometimes bear semi-autos. It protects the right to all arms, unless otherwise specified (within the Constitution).

 

Like I said: if folks could pick up an FA subgun like a P90 as easily as an 870, I'd be very surprised if no one here ran out to buy them by the bushel and justify their use like they would for all their other firearms.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Defending your home is more of a mindset than the gun you use.

 

Very true. You only have to read "The Armed Citizen" in the American Rifleman to see this. When you see the 85 year old grandma repel a home invasion by gangbangers with the Raven she bought for $35 it becomes obvious.

 

IF WE WERE IN FANTASY LAND OF NO RESTRICTIONS I could easily see picking a subgun for myself. I have time on FA P90 and Uzi. The P90 is an incredible package for tight quarters. A 2 round burst Kriss would be interesting as well.

 

You recognize the training and proficiency needs so there's no argument there. The UZI is worthy of note as it put most of the weight behind your shooting hand enhancing control. The P90 was originally marketed as a "Personal Defense Weapon" but to most (myself included) its a subgun. However, nothing is absolute and the P90 may be a good choice. I got to first shoot the P90 at a seminar at East Brunswick PD range when FN was trying to promote their line to the LE community. Most of the disadvantages for using a subgun as a HD weapon don't apply to the P90 as:

 

1. Its not only more compact than most subguns its also offers more control. FN said it has half the recoil of a MP5 and they are probably right. Recoil is a big control factor with subguns and I may have to say the P90 is has the least recoil of them all. This impressed me to the point I started to draw a happy face on the target shortly after I started shooting it.

 

2. The round it uses contributes to the low recoil. I would hazard a guess with the high velocity and lightweight it would perform similar to the 223/5.56 in building materials and reduce the threat of overpentration in building materials.

 

3. It is undoubtedly the most compact of all controlable subguns due to its bullpup configuration. Close quarters use is enhanced.

 

4. Retention issues with long guns and other subguns don't apply to the P90. The hands forward design moves the fulcrum of that lever to the shooter. There's not much for your opponent to grab.

 

2 rd triggers are light years easier to control. I don't have any experience with the Kriss but if it lacks a memory like the MP5 2 and 3 round burst it may work.