online ammo purchase w/o FID

[skimdan 0]

Hi Guys,

 

So ive read up on the topic, and also looked at the statues... what i'm looking for is confirmation.

 

I am in the 1st month of waiting for my FID and permits (never had the FID).

 

Can I buy ammo (from cabellas online) and have it shipped to NJ while I wait for my FID? It will be 500-1000 rounds of 9mm and a few k rounds of 22lr.

 

Thanks in advance for the replies.

[beltfedmx5 0]

Yes. I order ammo from cabelas to nj all the time. No FID needed.

[Urban Grunt 44]

Cabelas your good to go

[The_Matrix 105]

just received my order from Cabelas. No problems.

[PK90 3,573]

You are required by NJ law to have a FPID in order to acquire handgun ammunition while in NJ. That includes shipping it to a NJ address. If you travel out of the state, you may acquire it without a FPID as NJ law does not apply.

 

No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire handgun ammunition unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a manufacturer, wholesaler, or dealer under this chapter or is the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, or a valid permit to carry a handgun and first exhibits such card or permit to the seller, donor, transferor or assignor.

[madmnk78 3]

You are required by NJ law to have a FPID in order to acquire handgun ammunition while in NJ. That includes shipping it to a NJ address. If you travel out of the state, you may acquire it without a FPID as NJ law does not apply.

 

a lot of online places treat it as if you were traveling out of state - some require a copy of your FID, some do not. Cabellas doesn't. I had thought it was based on if the online store had a presence in NJ or not.

[Malice4you 627]

A few recent orders from cheaperthandirt for handgun ammo (.22, 9mm, and .45 so far) have not required that I present any form of ID or sign any waivers/filled out forms, unlike what their website and catalog claims. I kept waiting for an email to show up, or to get a phone call asking me to send in [something], only to find the order shipped. Not unhappy about it, just wish I'd known earlier, as I woulda ordered more ammo from the start from them, and saved a few bucks per box.

[QuePsiPhiSmkr 14]

I am reading this thread.. What is the rush? There are plenty of places with good sales.....Ammo will be there. Why risk anything?....

[EX Carnival man 223]

Hi Guys,

 

So ive read up on the topic, and also looked at the statues... what i'm looking for is confirmation.

 

I am in the 1st month of waiting for my FID and permits (never had the FID).

 

Can I buy ammo (from cabellas online) and have it shipped to NJ while I wait for my FID? It will be 500-1000 rounds of 9mm and a few k rounds of 22lr.

 

Thanks in advance for the replies.

I use http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/ I've never had a problem

[Anselmo 87]

Just because Cabela's will ship to you without FID doesn't mean it is legal for you to receive it.

[Steve_G 51]

Just wait until you receive your FID. It's not worth the risk. As Paul pointed out, you can't purchase handgun ammo without the FID. Yes, some stores will ship it to you but, they are not the ones that are going to get screwed if you get caught. Truth is you probably would be fine but, why risk it? If you get caught, at the very least you can kiss your FID and 2nd amendment rights good bye. With the way NJ is, you would probably have a new roomy named Bubba.

[Malsua 1,422]

As Paul pointed out, you can't purchase handgun ammo without the FID.

 

Let's be a little more precise here. You cannot _RECEIVE_ handgun ammo inside of NJ without a Purchaser ID. You may travel to PA and obtain as much as you'd like as ownership inside of NJ without a purchaser ID is not illegal. If you go to NY, some stores will ask you for your pistol license, some won't, it's not law but company policy for some of the larger chains.

[NickySantoro 211]

That includes shipping it to a NJ address.

 

Documentation? That would seem to contradict the Uniform Commercial Code.

[PK90 3,573]

Documentation? That would seem to contradict the Uniform Commercial Code.

?

The law is clear as stated. "NJS 2C:58-3.3b" NJ Legislators made a law just like acquiring firearms. I do not know what "Uniform Commercial Code" has to do with it.

[BRaptor 68]

Documentation? That would seem to contradict the Uniform Commercial Code.

 

Well, that depends on what is stated in the contract, no?

 

It doesn't really matter. I would think it's still going to be difficult to get around the "plain meaning" of the word "receive," or the saving clause, "or otherwise acquire."

 

 

?

The law is clear as stated. "NJS 2C:58-3.3b" NJ Legislators made a law just like acquiring firearms. I do not know what "Uniform Commercial Code" has to do with it.

 

I think he's referring to the moment when one acquires title to goods. According to the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), some agreements and situations result in the buyer acquiring title at the seller's location (presumably out of state). Other agreements and situations result in the buyer acquiring title at the buyer's location (presumably in NJ).

 

The argument being, if you "acquire title" outside of NJ, then you are not breaking NJ law, because you did not "receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire handgun ammunition" in NJ.

 

I wouldn't want to be the test case.

[PK90 3,573]

Don't you acquire title to a firearm when you take possession, not when you pay for it? Same for the ammo, no?

[SpecialK 193]

huh wha? In Colorado I sold a shotgun to a buddy of mine living in Southern Colorado. He deposited money into my account, I spent the money, I had the shotgun sitting in my house. He owned the shotgun, but picked it up months later. Same thing in the rest of the actual United States of America(Some exception apply NYC, Cali....). Doesn't matter if it is a firearm, ammo or a lawn mower. If I buy ammo online from Cabela's I give them money, they then set aside ammo that is now mine in ownership. I own this ammo, it does not matter if I have it shipped to me or I drive and pick it up it was acquired out of state.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Don't you acquire title to a firearm when you take possession, not when you pay for it? Same for the ammo, no?

 

A little off-topic, but Paul opened the door. A member of Sig Forum (actually he may be a member here, also) found a S&W "Registered" magnum in a state other than his state of residence. It was an extremely good price. He paid for it, in full, and documented everything photographically. His job takes him abroad for extended periods and he arranged to have the gun shipped to his FFL when he would be back in-country to receive it.

 

In the interim, the seller realized that he could have sold the gun for considerably more and tried to reneg on the deal. It was headed to court when the dealer relinquished claim. But the arguments were as Paul stated - does the gun become the buyers property when it is paid for, or when it is legally transferred. The buyer's lawyer made a good enough case for the former, that the seller backed down.

 

I would agree that it is when it is paid for, not transferred. If a firearm is shipped to a local FFL from out of state and the buyer for some reason is refused when the NICS is done, he can still dispose of it, to make himself whole, without ever taking possession of it. There have been a number of sales on here, where the seller never took possession of the gun because they were waiting for their P2P. Decided they didn't want the gun and sold it without ever taking possession. It becomes the buyer's property when money changes hands. The transaction is completed when it is legally transferred.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

[exfed2002 4]

If you go to NY, some stores will ask you for your pistol license, some won't, it's not law but company policy for some of the larger chains.

 

NYS law requries handgun ammo buyers to have the approriate license or evidence of exemption.

 

It's been that way for years.

[BRaptor 68]

Don't you acquire title to a firearm when you take possession, not when you pay for it? Same for the ammo, no?

 

It depends.

 

huh wha? In Colorado I sold a shotgun to a buddy of mine living in Southern Colorado. He deposited money into my account, I spent the money, I had the shotgun sitting in my house. He owned the shotgun, but picked it up months later. Same thing in the rest of the actual United States of America(Some exception apply NYC, Cali....). Doesn't matter if it is a firearm, ammo or a lawn mower. If I buy ammo online from Cabela's I give them money, they then set aside ammo that is now mine in ownership. I own this ammo, it does not matter if I have it shipped to me or I drive and pick it up it was acquired out of state.

 

Nope.

 

The goods are fungible. In your example, Cabela's owes you the agreed upon brand, size, quantity, etc. of ammunition at the agreed upon price. There is no special quarantining of "your" ammo until it is boxed by a warehouse worker and shipped to you. Even after being boxed, Cabela's could unpack "your" ammo, switch it for boxes of identical ammo and send it to you. You'd never know, and you'd have no recourse, even if you did.

 

A little off-topic, but Paul opened the door. A member of Sig Forum (actually he may be a member here, also) found a S&W "Registered" magnum in a state other than his state of residence. It was an extremely good price. He paid for it, in full, and documented everything photographically. His job takes him abroad for extended periods and he arranged to have the gun shipped to his FFL when he would be back in-country to receive it.

 

In the interim, the seller realized that he could have sold the gun for considerably more and tried to reneg on the deal. It was headed to court when the dealer relinquished claim. But the arguments were as Paul stated - does the gun become the buyers property when it is paid for, or when it is legally transferred. The buyer's lawyer made a good enough case for the former, that the seller backed down.

 

I would agree that it is when it is paid for, not transferred. If a firearm is shipped to a local FFL from out of state and the buyer for some reason is refused when the NICS is done, he can still dispose of it, to make himself whole, without ever taking possession of it. There have been a number of sales on here, where the seller never took possession of the gun because they were waiting for their P2P. Decided they didn't want the gun and sold it without ever taking possession. It becomes the buyer's property when money changes hands. The transaction is completed when it is legally transferred.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

This situation falls under the "the offeree is entitled to the benefit of his bargain."

 

 

In the end:

 

Transfer of title coincides with assumption of risk of loss (due to theft, fire, damage, etc.). It doesn't always happen at payment, or at the moment of shipping, or upon delivery to the buyer. It depends on the UCC (contract laws of the state) and what the parties agree to.

[PK90 3,573]

As there is a law in place that says you can not take possession of the shipped ammo in NJ without a FPID, then the odds are against the purchaser.

[Malsua 1,422]

NYS law requries handgun ammo buyers to have the approriate license or evidence of exemption.

 

It's been that way for years.

 

This is true of NYC, but I have not seen the statutes for NYS. Some stores I've been to don't ask for Pistol ID, Walmart and Gander mtn, do.

[RecessedFilter 222]

A lot of my gf's family lives in PA and NY, both in towns along the border. I have bought ammo in both states, from small tiny gun shops to Walmart, and have never been asked for any identification. I just got back from being up there today, found some .45 for $13 a box, WINNING! I love going up there.

[deadeye74 5]

As there is a law in place that says you can not take possession of the shipped ammo in NJ without a FPID, then the odds are against the purchaser.

 

Say you do have your P2P and buy online out of state but the vendor never asks for your credintsls. Would the person in NJ who is properly "authorized" to buy ammo liable for not submitting credentials to the seller? I would assume the only way someone would find out that you got the ammo from a vendor out of state was if NJSP did an audit of the sellers invoice records.

[PK90 3,573]

As long as you have a FPID and/or PP you are able to legally acquire the ammo while you are in NJ. I believe that the "exhibit" portion of the law is something the seller/disposer has to worry about. Somehow, this thread turned into who will send ammo to NJ without showing a FPID. There are numerous threads about that. I thought the original post asked if it was legal to acquire ammo WITHOUT one. There is a difference.

 

....I am in the 1st month of waiting for my FID and permits (never had the FID)....

 

One may asked why "Ammoman" does not ship ammo to NJ residents. I believe that it is because of the "exhibit" portion. This is why dealers outside of NJ will ship ammo. They do not have to worry about NJ law. But IMO, they will soon catch on and start restricting sales to NJ residents.

[Njgunowner 2]

PK90 and the others are correct. In order to receive handgun ammo WHILE IN THE STATE OF NJ you must have a FID. Once you exit the state you can do whatever the law allows in whatever state you happen to find yourself. Doesn't matter if it is an online retailer. You guys need to read a LOT more carefully when your buying ammo, as most retailers will put a disclaimer stating it is up to YOU to make sure you can legally purchase the product at the location it's shipped to.

 

Long story short, it's perfectly legal where they are to ship it so the retailers are covered. It is NOT however legal for you to receive it without a FID in NJ and you could, however unlikely, be prosecuted.

[skimdan 0]

Hi again everyone,

 

I apologize for causing a stir on this one. I had read the laws regarding my question and had thought that it would be illegal. I will NOT be buying at this time, due to the risks.

 

The question was posed as to "what my rush is", which is a fair question. I have the itch! I have the tendency to get wrapped up in everything I do to the point that waiting is no longer a simple option . In this case though, the waiting far outweighs the risk.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Dan

 

You are required by NJ law to have a FPID in order to acquire handgun ammunition while in NJ. That includes shipping it to a NJ address. If you travel out of the state, you may acquire it without a FPID as NJ law does not apply.

[Anselmo 87]

Hi again everyone,

 

I apologize for causing a stir on this one. I had read the laws regarding my question and had thought that it would be illegal. I will NOT be buying at this time, due to the risks.

 

The question was posed as to "what my rush is", which is a fair question. I have the itch! I have the tendency to get wrapped up in everything I do to the point that waiting is no longer a simple option . In this case though, the waiting far outweighs the risk.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Dan

 

I hope your FID process is quick. Waiting on the first purchase takes patience.

[KpdPipes 388]

As long as you have a FPID and/or PP you are able to legally acquire the ammo while you are in NJ. I believe that the "exhibit" portion of the law is something the seller/disposer has to worry about. Somehow, this thread turned into who will send ammo to NJ without showing a FPID. There are numerous threads about that. I thought the original post asked if it was legal to acquire ammo WITHOUT one. There is a difference.

 

 

 

One may asked why "Ammoman" does not ship ammo to NJ residents. I believe that it is because of the "exhibit" portion. This is why dealers outside of NJ will ship ammo. They do not have to worry about NJ law. But IMO, they will soon catch on and start restricting sales to NJ residents.

 

We would have lost Cabelas as well if they had ever actually opened for business in Xanadu..once they were an NJ Dealer, they would not have been able to ship handgun ammo without the FID cards.

[dtown223 12]

Ok, so let's say someone (ME) has a NJ FID

but it's sitting at the local PD waiting on a change of address. Would it be legal to acquire ammo because I have an FID, even if it isn't actually in my possession?