Funny Stuff at the Range

[NJDrew1 0]

I was finishing up at Ready Aim Fire when a young couple came to the counter. She points to the .45 and tells the clerk she wants to rent it. He asked them both if they've ever fired a gun before and they say no. He tells her that he's starting her out with a 9mm, and that she can come back and swap it out for the .45 later if she really wants to. I could only imagine her taking her first shot and throwing the gun down-range if he had given her the .45

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Honestly, a .45 or 1911 for that matter is not any worse then shooting a 9mm... The 9mm is actually more snappy then the .45acp, but the .45 does have more oomph. When i shot my 1911 for the first time i was gripping it like a mad mad anticipating the recoil... to my surprise it was very manageable. The pistol plays a bigger role then the caliber in this type of situation.

[NicePants 58]

At least she didn't ask for a .357 magnum.

[vortex0178 3]

Or the .44 Mag Trail Boss...

 

I agree with jack, though. When I first shot a 1911 I was surprised that the recoil wasn't all that bad - more of a heavy push instead of a flippy snap.

[67gtonut 847]

See.... I am no fan of the .45 in a 1911 Did not like the feel at all

Just bought a .45 M&P and it shoots almost as soft as my 9mm

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

[Sandy 44]

I get a flippy snap from my .45 1911 that I am trying to conquer. It is easy on the hands though , it is just muzzle flip. As opposed to my Model 60 J frame when it shoots .357s . Not so much muzzle flip , but the hand feels it slam. My M7P .40 is just a soft push . Funnily enough I feel my husband's 9mm PX4 Storm in 9mm is jumpier than my .40 . Light gun I guess , does not absorb the recoil as much ?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I get a flippy snap from my .45 1911 that I am trying to conquer. It is easy on the hands though , it is just muzzle flip. As opposed to my Model 60 J frame when it shoots .357s . Not so much muzzle flip , but the hand feels it slam. My M7P .40 is just a soft push . Funnily enough I feel my husband's 9mm PX4 Storm in 9mm is jumpier than my .40 . Light gun I guess , does not absorb the recoil as much ?

 

I haven't even shot my PX4 yet, but with the rotating barrel it should shoot softer then most 9mm's

[Mikeythumbs 1]

I get a flippy snap from my .45 1911 that I am trying to conquer. It is easy on the hands though , it is just muzzle flip. As opposed to my Model 60 J frame when it shoots .357s . Not so much muzzle flip , but the hand feels it slam. My M7P .40 is just a soft push . Funnily enough I feel my husband's 9mm PX4 Storm in 9mm is jumpier than my .40 . Light gun I guess , does not absorb the recoil as much ?

 

If you are a righty with the 1911 some people say (Larry vickers ) put your right thumb on top of the safety it one makes sure in a bad situation you don't knock the gun into safe and 2 the down pressure you can exert helps with muzzle flip. The only thing To be careful of is getting slide bite

 

 

also get te web of the thumb index finger a high as possible jammed right under/in to the beaver tale it helps redirect the energy straight back into the arm rather then upward motion

 

last tight grip not only helps with recoil but makes sure the gun functions right a loose grip will cause fte as the slide won't go through its full range o motion. Hope that helps some as the 1911 is auchincloss a great gun

 

Btw which one are you shooting out of curiosity

[matty 810]

Wha?

 

If you are a righty with the 1911 some people say (Larry vickers ) put your right thumb on top of the safety it one makes sure in a bad situation you don't knock the gun into safe and 2 the down pressure you can exert helps with muzzle flip. The only thing RO be careful of is getting slide bite also get te web of the thumb index finger a high as possible jammed right under/in to the beaver tale it helps redirect the energy straight back into the arm rather then upward motion amd last tight grip not only helps with recoil but makes sure the gun functions right a loose grip will cause fte as the slide won't go through its full range o motion. Hope that helps some as the 1911 is auchincloss a great gun Btw which one are you shooting out of curiosity

[Mikeythumbs 1]

Was it the format or what I said that you are disagreeing with gonna stop answering to the forums from my iPhone always seem to have problems sorry for the run on paragraph

[Mikeythumbs 1]

Is that better

[irishpete 2]

From irishpete'swife ...Pete , until you fix my laptop remember to sign out ! lol

 

I understood your paragraph , thanks

 

I have a Colt Combat Elite .45ACP with VZ G10 slim grips. I saw a video of myself shooting it and realized I have to really work on that muzzle flip lol Things to work on at the range...

 

I haven't even shot my PX4 yet, but with the rotating barrel it should shoot softer then most 9mm's

The PX 4 has very low recoil and is a nice gun to shoot. I have 3 P2Ps coming soon and one will most likely be for that gun in a subcompact version. Not the next gun , but one of the 3 The M&P .40 and the CZ75 Sp01 tactical for that matter in .40 cal each have even less recoil which surprised me. The CZ is very heavy , all metal. The M&P has a longer barrel ( I got the 5" Pro series) . You'll like that PX 4 .

[Krdshrk 3,878]

The PX 4 has very low recoil and is a nice gun to shoot. I have 3 P2Ps coming soon and one will most likely be for that gun in a subcompact version.

Note - only the fullsize and compact have the rotating barrel. The subcompact does not.

[irishpete 2]

Thanks for the heads up I did know that , but I think in 9mm it should be fine. I'll have a chance to shoot one before getting my own. One of the ladies I know has one. It is between that and the Nano for my subcompact , which now may be another 2 months before I get one. Something else may have caught my eye 3 remaining P2Ps when they arrive will be for a compact , subcompact , a 6 inch revolver. In that order. Then I am done . Won't even apply for more permits. Riiiight????

[Sandy 44]

ahem. From Pete's wife ^

 

Now I ruined all of his " unread topics" feature too lol

[Mikeythumbs 1]

From irishpete'swife ...Pete , until you fix my laptop remember to sign out ! lol

 

I understood your paragraph , thanks

 

I have a Colt Combat Elite .45ACP with VZ G10 slim grips. I saw a video of myself shooting it and realized I have to really work on that muzzle flip lol Things to work on at the range...

 

 

The PX 4 has very low recoil and is a nice gun to shoot. I have 3 P2Ps coming soon and one will most likely be for that gun in a subcompact version. Not the next gun , but one of the 3 The M&P .40 and the CZ75 Sp01 tactical for that matter in .40 cal each have even less recoil which surprised me. The CZ is very heavy , all metal. The M&P has a longer barrel ( I got the 5" Pro series) . You'll like that PX 4 .

 

Hope it helps

[Sandy 44]

I'll try it and let you know

 

So , I wonder if the girl ever went back for the .45 ? Baptism by fire..power lol

[Mikeythumbs 1]

I'll try it and let you know

 

So , I wonder if the girl ever went back for the .45 ? Baptism by fire..power lol

 

At least she didn't try to rent a .44 mag or worse that .500 s&w they have there

[Krdshrk 3,878]

The first time I had gone out shooting with a couple of classmates (back when I was in tech school), we mix loaded a revolver with .38's and .357s and gave them to a guy who had some experience but didn't know too much.... First shot was .38.... then..... .357 boom... he paused, said WTF, then shot the next one - .38 again.. and back to .357.. oh that was fun...

[raz-0 1,259]

I could only imagine her taking her first shot and throwing the gun down-range if he had given her the .45

 

Why? .45 recoil is pretty manageable by any physically sound adult. Most guns are. 45 is also pretty average has handguns go in terms of recoil. A light weight .357, which internet and gunstore idiots seem to recommend to women all the time is about as unpleasant a gun to shoot as I have experienced (then agian I'm not stupid enough to pick up a light 3" barreled .44 with full zorch loads). People psych themselves out too much when it comes to recoil, think way too much of the power of handguns in general, and give women too little credit for being functional adults able to operate machines designed for a pretty low common denominator.

[Sandy 44]

Yes , I cringe inside when people tell women to start with a .22. Not that I think there is anything wrong with a .22 . Affordable ammo , nice gun selections.

 

My issue is if you tell a woman the reason she should start with a .22 is because of recoil , you are setting her up to be apprehensive , most unnecessarily so , of any larger caliber. I would not hand a woman new to the game my J Frame with .357s in it , but I would feel totally comfortable handing her my M&P .40 . I took my cousin who was brand new shooter, she is a small girl about 5'2 and slight. I started her with my M&P .40 , then the J frame revolver with .38s , then my Colt .45 . Her favorite was the M&P .40 ..as was another girl my husband and I took shooting . It was easier to rack and , according to her , less recoil than the PX4 9mm even. Same opinion I had. I bet the M&P in 9mm would be a perfect 1st gun for any nervous woman , especially since it comes with a small backstrap you can change it out to. No need to make her think right off the bat she can "only handle" a .22 .

 

Just my opinion as a woman who is relatively new to shooting.

[compujas 21]

I understand your point Sandy, and do agree to an extent, but there are also women who aren't comfortable with a .40. My wife and several of her friends for example. They've all shot my Glock 22 .40S&W and none of them enjoy it, they say it's too harsh, and that was with 180gr rounds...they wanted nothing to do with the 165's. But then none of them have a problem handling my Beretta 92 9mm. So while you're right in that they shouldn't be pigeon-holed into starting on a .22, a .40 might not be the right place either.

 

Also, when considering a brand new shooter, regardless of gender, starting with a .22 helps them overcome their fear of guns (if they have one) because they have nearly no recoil, so they don't have to worry about the recoil and can focus on the fundamentals of grip and trigger rather than thinking "oh crap, am I going to drop it". A .22 IMO is a good place for anyone to start, not because they CAN'T handle anything more than that, but because you don't KNOW what they CAN handle. People come in all different kinds, not everyone is suited to a .500S&W Mag.

 

All that aside, my wife actually picked out the M&P 9mm as what she wants for her first gun.

[Sandy 44]

Duly noted:) I guess I just don't feel any unpleasant recoil from the .40s we have. The gun moves around a bit , sure , but nothing is uncomfortable , ouchie , or anything . Maybe the gun moving when you shoot it might scare some..I just don't think a woman should settle for a .22 just because..they should at least try larger calibers once they are comfortable. Conversely I think it is asinine when people hand a woman a snub nosed light magnum because it fits in their purse . Even my heavy J frame , the 357s feel like you are playing catch with a hardball and no glove. I like to shoot it , but would never hand it to someone who never shot magnums before. You often see people handing women guns with tremendous recoil ( especially long guns) as a joke. It is funny , yes , but still a jacka$$ thing to do to someone.

 

She will love that gun. You can buy really bling backstraps for it too I actually may order the stars and stripes ones lol

 

http://www.gungoddess.com/for-m-ps/

[JackDaWack 2,895]

From irishpete'swife ...Pete , until you fix my laptop remember to sign out ! lol

 

I understood your paragraph , thanks

 

I have a Colt Combat Elite .45ACP with VZ G10 slim grips. I saw a video of myself shooting it and realized I have to really work on that muzzle flip lol Things to work on at the range...

 

 

The PX 4 has very low recoil and is a nice gun to shoot. I have 3 P2Ps coming soon and one will most likely be for that gun in a subcompact version. Not the next gun , but one of the 3 The M&P .40 and the CZ75 Sp01 tactical for that matter in .40 cal each have even less recoil which surprised me. The CZ is very heavy , all metal. The M&P has a longer barrel ( I got the 5" Pro series) . You'll like that PX 4 .

I actually picked up the compact version, the whole reason i purchased was because of the highly regarded reviews in terms of recoil since it is a compact... I don't believe the sub-compact has the rotating barrel so just be aware, Krdshrk beat me to it! I need to find some time to run her through the paces, it will be retiring my 92 as my go to HD pistol if it holds true.

[Sandy 44]

It is a really good looking compact gun IMO. Let me know how you like it . The friend who is going to let me try her subcompact is another woman and she seems to like it as well .

 

They make nice guns , and I like the fact that they come with different backstraps.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Sandy, you have to understand that you are the anomaly - not the norm. For a brand new shooter, a rimfire allows them to concentrate on the basics - grip, stance, sight picture, trigger squeeze etc, etc without having concern about recoil. In the end, the basics serve you well regardless of caliber being shot. Always good to have the funamentals down before you add a variable like recoil. Not saying that a new shooter shouldn't experience a little variety. Started my son's GF out with a .22, until she felt comfortable. Moved to light .38 Spls then on to 9 mm. Ultimately the .45 ACP. She decided that she was OK with the 9 mm, but the .45 was a bit much. If I had started her with the 9 mm the session may have ended there, the gradual ascending power helped her acclimate to the recoil. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Sandy 44]

Pete says the same thing . Hmmmm.

[Sandy 44]

I also freak out when women can't change a flat , won't even try to drive a stick shift , or won't do any type of activity that might break a nail ..or only want to work with other women in a self defense class they just shelled out for . But that is just me

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Sandy, you have to understand that you are the anomaly - not the norm. For a brand new shooter, a rimfire allows them to concentrate on the basics - grip, stance, sight picture, trigger squeeze etc, etc without having concern about recoil. In the end, the basics serve you well regardless of caliber being shot. Always good to have the funamentals down before you add a variable like recoil. Not saying that a new shooter shouldn't experience a little variety. Started my son's GF out with a .22, until she felt comfortable. Moved to light .38 Spls then on to 9 mm. Ultimately the .45 ACP. She decided that she was OK with the 9 mm, but the .45 was a bit much. If I had started her with the 9 mm the session may have ended there, the gradual ascending power helped her acclimate to the recoil. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I have to echo this as well. I brought my co-worker and his GF to the range. Started them out with my Beretta Neos and Ruger 10/22. They liked both (she preferred the 10/22, and he preferred the Neos). I moved them up to 9mm - my Px4 and M&P 9L - they didn't like either. They preferred to unload with .22 over the 9's. They didn't mind trying them though. His GF was actually a pretty decent shot with the 10/22.

[Sandy 44]

They did not like either because the .22 was nicer to shoot.

 

A good analogy would be teaching someone to drive on an automatic , then letting them get comfortable and saying here , now drive a manual. They have a much higher chance of not bothering to learn a manual because it is too easy to drive the auto. Things sometimes become scarier when you have the intro softened for you. I'll go even farther and say a young man would be jumping at the chance to go vroom in the manual..but the woman is more likely to just stick with what she has been made comfortable with. . Gender differences .

 

Two perspectives I guess. I left the BH without shooting the first time I went with my husband ..partly because I was afraid I was going to drop the gun in front of a bunch of men. I was very intimidated and nervous . Then I took my first lesson with GFH with a few full size 9mm and a .38 revolver. Plenty , and I mean plenty of emphasis on breathing , sighting up , sloooooow pull on the trigger , learning not to anticipate the recoil , exercises to check to see if you are flinching. . It was a good first lesson and I just don't see the recoil on a full sized 9mm to be beyond something a beginner would handle. If I had started on a .22 I still would have been afraid to drop the gun once I moved up to something that actually moved when you shot it. The bad habits I have when it comes to recoil management ( I tend to not grip hard enough with my weak hand , and I still flinch sometimes) would not have been evident on a .22 , therefore I would have learned slow trigger pull , breathing in one step and then recoil management later on when I shot a gun that showcased it. Just a different path to learning. Personally I would rather get it right up front. Different strokes like Bob said.

 

Here is an analogy that shapes my opinion on training women to do anything male dominated - A few years under my belt teaching women self defense and convincing them that training with other women and/or guys in giant padded suits that don't hit back may be the more enjoyable and easy way to go ... and yes , an easier way to learn the fundamentals *seemingly* because your errors won't be as obvious ,because the subject you are using can be controlled even though you are making errors . So I ask them what is your objective..do you want to just have fun and get a workout or do you really want to learn self defense ? If they really want to learn self defense I tell them that learning will start when they leave the ladies class . They are not wasting their time necessarily by being in the woman's class as they are learning some fundamentals..but they will find half of what they had confidence in was working because they were doing it on a weaker opponent.

 

I'm not saying it is bad to go the milk fed route..hell , even pro boxers are fed pinkies , tomato cans , whatever before getting any real opponents and title shots. It is just a longer route which is fine and there is a percentage of fighters who are never the same after the have their first "real" match.

 

I would be curious to hear from the sponsors here that run schools that do intro to pistol classes..what handgun do you normally put into a woman's hand when she has never fired one before?

 

Curious not in a challenging way , curious in a curious way I only know how I was started off ( and it worked well for me, and I was very scared at first ) . I wonder if they tailor it to the person's personality?

 

I think it is more ingrained attitude in a woman rather than actual strength that makes them leery of recoil. Sorry , you can't get me to say a newer full size 9mm like a PX 4 Storm has any kind of scary recoil. I think the apprehension and the squealing because the gun moved when you shot it is a type of personality disorder that is fostered in girls starting from like age 1.

 

Perfect example. A 7 year old boy won't get his toy because there is a bug near it and he is shamed into overcoming his fear..a 7 year old girl does the same and dad chuckles and gets the toy for her. Fast forward 20 years and nobody is comfortable handing her a gun that might jerk slightly when she pulls the trigger because she'll want to go home.

 

And I think a girl that would never shoot again because she tried a 9mm , will probably not be cured of that type of fear because she shot a .22 first. Totally my opinion here based on my experience of trainign women in martial arts ( not totally related I know) One of two things will happen..she'll like the extra bang of the 9mm and will continue to want to try bigger guns..or she'll put it down and say " oh no , I much prefer my .22" . And that is not a bad thing if she only enjoys her .22 . Right? So what do I know ? ..not much admittedly