Whats the point of a law if its never followed?

[dwamp2006 1]

Sorry that this is my first post, but i recently applied for my permits (little over a month ago). I see people are waiting anywhere from . to 6 months to get their permits. Almost never have i seen it done in the 30 days the law states. I just called and was told they are "back logged" and it could take another 3-4 weeks. I feel the start of a run around coming, and im not to happy. So whats the point if they have the law that says they must issue a decision in 30 days if its never followed? Why are new jersey citizens trampled on by our own government?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

First, welcome!

 

Second, Pizza Bob or someone will be here later with the actual law, but they do not have to issue permits within 30 days. Not sure of the exact wording, but I know many on here know it by heart.

[Dan 177]

Because they can get away with it according to a NJ judge ruling. It is part of the trampling of our civil rights in NJ and it has gone on for too long.

 

I urge you to look into joining NJ2AS, ANJRPC, and SAF if you haven't already. These are the guys on the front lines fighting for our rights.

[hopper 36]

Unfortunately this is the state we live in and the system we have to deal with , only thing i can say is look into the NJ2AS and join one of the only groups fighting in this state to get our rights back .................WWW.NJ2AS.COM

[bhunted 887]

You say permits. You mean FID? P2P? Also, what town? Please fill out your profile so folks could help you better.Welcome aboard.

 

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[XDJohnTact 49]

Welcome to the forum from Toms River. If we knew where you were from, someone might give more informed information regarding actual wait times.

[mcbethr 42]

You need to tell us your town.

 

Why do they do it? Because they can. Who are you going to complain to? The police?

 

I don't think that many towns do it out of spite. I honestly think that if you are a detective, what are you going to do, spend your time investigating crime, or spend your time investigating permits?

 

This may be a reflection of the funding of a police department - all the more reason why we should go to straight Federal NICS.

[TheDon 3]

The law gives the issuing agency 30 days (45 for out of state) to determine if a person is prohibited from purchasing a firearm. If they cannot prove someone a prohibited person in 30 days, the shall issue.

 

The loophole is that the law does not state when the timer starts. Does it start when you submit your paperwork, when your references return their forms, when the NJSP process the SBI, when? Many municipalities blame your references, the NJSP, etc. for the delays, even though they took their time in submitting the paperwork to Trenton or in sending out the letters to your references.

 

Not defending it, just reiterating the BS that I have heard tale of about many municipalities.

+1000 for Lumberton: No BS. Always ~30 days after your fingerprints are processed for a FPID, ~30 days for a P2PP.

Nonetheless, I feel others' pains, even though I don't have similar experiences.

[PK90 3,570]

IIRC, case law said the clock starts when the SBI check is returned.

[djg0770 481]

Almost never have i seen it done in the 30 days the law states.

 

After an email to the mayor, I got my second to last round of permits in 30 days on the dot.

 

My last round of permits was 7days. No BS.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Sorry that this is my first post, but i recently applied for my permits (little over a month ago). I see people are waiting anywhere from . to 6 months to get their permits. Almost never have i seen it done in the 30 days the law states. I just called and was told they are "back logged" and it could take another 3-4 weeks. I feel the start of a run around coming, and im not to happy. So whats the point if they have the law that says they must issue a decision in 30 days if its never followed? Why are new jersey citizens trampled on by our own government?

 

That 30 day rule was tossed out in the late 90s during a lawsuit, Judge ruled that in the name and interest of 'public safety', 30 days may not be sufficient for a background check or whatever, thus, goodbye 30 day rule. There is no clock as when it should start, because there isn't one.. People just get the FID's and P2P if and when the local PD decides when it's time.

[gun594 4]

The law gives the issuing agency 30 days (45 for out of state) to determine if a person is prohibited from purchasing a firearm. If they cannot prove someone a prohibited person in 30 days, the shall issue.

 

The loophole is that the law does not state when the timer starts. Does it start when you submit your paperwork, when your references return their forms, when the NJSP process the SBI, when? Many municipalities blame your references, the NJSP, etc. for the delays, even though they took their time in submitting the paperwork to Trenton or in sending out the letters to your references.

 

Not defending it, just reiterating the BS that I have heard tale of about many municipalities.

+1000 for Lumberton: No BS. Always ~30 days after your fingerprints are processed for a FPID, ~30 days for a P2PP.

Nonetheless, I feel others' pains, even though I don't have similar experiences.

 

 

The Don, I totally agree about Lumberton, very polite, smooth and relatively quick. I feel bad after reading about some of the issues/long waits that others have had to endure.

[dwamp2006 1]

Sorry, its hamilton twp, mercer county. it makes me even more mad that the lady doing the filing confidently told me 2-3 weeks when i picked up the forms, then when i submitted the forms it she said 3-4 weeks, and now after calling at 31 days its another 3-4 weeks. Its just messed up that any other state all the do is make a phone call while your standing there, but thats not good enough for this crummy state.

 

I applied for my initial FID card and 3 Pistol permits.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Sorry, its hamilton twp, mercer county. it makes me even more mad that the lady doing the filing confidently told me 2-3 weeks when i picked up the forms, then when i submitted the forms it she said 3-4 weeks, and now after calling at 31 days its another 3-4 weeks. Its just messed up that any other state all the do is make a phone call while your standing there, but thats not good enough for this crummy state.

 

I applied for my initial FID card and 3 Pistol permits.

Most other states.

 

MA and IL have FID/FOID type cards as well, and NY handgun buying regs make NJ look easy. Some states, (CA &CT come to mind) have waiting periods of 10 days or so, still less than the absurd waits here, but not instant either.

[PeteF 1,044]

That 30 day rule was tossed out in the late 90s during a lawsuit, Judge ruled that in the name and interest of 'public safety', 30 days may not be sufficient for a background check or whatever, thus, goodbye 30 day rule. There is no clock as when it should start, because there isn't one.. People just get the FID's and P2P if and when the local PD decides when it's time.

 

This is completely ridiculous.

If the legislature meant "whatever amount of time it takes to get the check done", they would have written that. It clearly states 30 days, and still says 30 days after at least 1 revision. Our system of "make laws up" judges needs to be completely redone.

Justice is supposed to be blind not stupid.

[TheDon 3]

This is completely ridiculous.

If the legislature meant "whatever amount of time it takes to get the check done", they would have written that. It clearly states 30 days, and still says 30 days after at least 1 revision. Our system of "make laws up" judges needs to be completely redone.

Justice is supposed to be blind not stupid.

 

That is essentially the definition of a Statist government. When there is any conflict between the controls empowered to the State and the rights of the People, the State's interests win. Kind of backward from what our founding fathers had in mind.

 

ETA:

And for the most part, based upon NJ natives who were born and raised in this State, the people are generally OK with that. The only people who seem to notice are people who relocated here from America.

Edited September 9, 2012 by TheDon

[PeteF 1,044]

That is essentially the definition of a Statist government. When there is any conflict between the controls empowered to the State and the rights of the People, the State's interests win. Kind of backward from what our founding fathers had in mind.

 

The problem is its not the "People" vs the state, it's one branch of the state versus another branch of the state.

1) Legislature and executive make the laws.

2) Executive enforces the law.

3) Judicial decides whether law is constitutional or not.

 

In this case (as in many other NJ cases) judges did 1,2 and 3, which is completely out of there prevue.

[Soju 153]

but they do not have to issue permits within 30 days. Not sure of the exact wording, but I know many on here know it by heart.

 

False.

 

It is part of the trampling of our civil rights in NJ and it has gone on for too long.

 

 

Fact.

 

But to answer the questioned asked in the thread title, there isn't one. Why do people allow it to happen? Because there is no recourse and we are threatened with force and violence if we don't comply.

[dwamp2006 1]

So i just called after it being 60 days and was told itll be another MONTH!!! This is making me mad, my rights mean nothing to NJ. Also, I just moved last week so i dont even live in the township anymore. The town i live in now i would have to apply with the state police since there is no township police station. So what should i do, can i have my application transfered or am i stuck waiting?

[deadeye74 5]

So i just called after it being 60 days and was told itll be another MONTH!!! This is making me mad, my rights mean nothing to NJ. Also, I just moved last week so i dont even live in the township anymore. The town i live in now i would have to apply with the state police since there is no township police station. So what should i do, can i have my application transfered or am i stuck waiting?

 

Your drivers license must match your FID/pistol permits to buy. I personally never heard of an application transfer. I would say you should ask the NJSP how to handle it. If you moved, did your change of address for mail/DL, your probably going to have to apply for a FID change of address and new pistol permits once you finally receive the ones you currently are waiting for.

[dwamp2006 1]

4 months and 6 days later, and my permits are finally ready for pick up!!!! now i just gotta find time to get there since theres only a 2 hour window each day to get them! score!!!!

[brocglock23 4]

First of all, congrats. Second, what's the deal with the address? Do you now need to get it changed or were they able to correct this for you?

[TheSmokingGun 0]

Laws are enforced by cops.

 

The same cops that are tasked with processing your permits.

 

So basically, put 2 and 2 together and figure out why so many towns don't care if it's 30 days or 6 months.

[dwamp2006 1]

no

[PK90 3,570]

So you intend to lie on a Federal and/or State Form when you acquire a firearm?

[dwamp2006 1]

So you intend to lie on a Federal and/or State Form when you acquire a firearm?

 

no i do not. But i was lied to when i was told it was only going to be 2-3 weeks to get my permits.

[slapmypc 0]

Until there are repercussions for the failures of the PD's to provide a required service in a timely manner, nothing will change. You can be the nice guy, or the squeecky wheel, in the end you have no control of the outcome.

 

Honey or Lemon?

[Handyman 5,682]

Laws are enforced by cops.

 

The same cops that are tasked with processing your permits.

 

So basically, put 2 and 2 together and figure out why so many towns don't care if it's 30 days or 6 months.

 

 

Indeed. I know in Edison officers of the law are quite busy, for example.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/edison_police_turmoil_continue.html

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2012/12/edison_police_misconduct_bruta.html

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2012/12/edison_police_lawsuit_intimida.html#incart_m-rpt-2#incart_m-rpt-1#incart_m-rpt-2

 

I wonder how long Edison permits take?

[Ron 0]

So you intend to lie on a Federal and/or State Form when you acquire a firearm?

 

Nice Paul!!!