M&P 15

[vladtepes 1,060]

S&W replied back to my email ammo question. My question was "I just purchased the (NJ Complaint) Model M&P15 Sport Rifle on sn# xxxxxxx and have a question. Could this rifle run the cheaper Russian ammo like Wolf, Silver Bear or Tula? Please advise". Their reply was the following, “As long as the caliber is correct although we do not recommend this ammo. Thank You” that was it. I followed up with a phone call and the Rep said the Russian ammo could damage the extractor so no Russian ammo for my M&P15 Sport. It would have been a nice option but not a big deal since I never ran it in the Mini14 either.

 

I found the Geissele YouTube vid for the Geissele Super Semi-Automatic (SSA), nice find. The vid goes into great detail about the install so now that I’ve seen it, you’re correct it looks very easy to upgrade. Definitely going to upgrade the trigger but I want to shoot it stock first to be able to do a comparison and above all make sure everything else is in working condition.

 

Thank you ALL for the replies, now I just have to shoot it......

 

the dynamic line of triggers are really cool because of the flat trigger surface.. I LOVE mine...

[M1152 713]

I found this post about Steel cased ammo, looking at those images I’ll be sticking with brass for my Sport. I took the Sport out Friday for the maiden voyage and I'm very pleased with it. Looking back I should have picked one up sooner. I’ve replaced the front sight with the XS 24/7 Front Sight Post. As per vladtepes I looked over on the Geissele site and went with the Geissele Super Semi Automatic Trigger (SSA). After viewing the other models I think that would be best for me. after the trigger is installed I'll be done

[Lalo 13]

Probably the same as Rssian ammo, I've shot probably about 2000 rounds of this ammo through my M&P 15 without issue.

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/223-5-56/mfs-223-55gr-fmj-zinc-plated.html

 

I even ran through about 400 rounds over the course of a 7 hour class ith out a singe misfire. :shrug:

[TheDon 3]

Love the M&P 15. IMHO, it is an awesome entry level rifle for the AR platform. There is no need to jump into a $1,500 rifle until after you fall in love.

 

Russian ammo is good enough for a M&P15. I do not think you will be able to perceive the difference in accuracy inside of 50 yards. I have shot (or, my kids have shot) 10's of thousands of rounds of Tul, Wolf, and Bear and we never had a single round fail to go bang or FTE. The dirty factor is the only thing you really need to consider. My kids can blow through 300+ rounds in an afternoon of shooting. So, for me the cost difference is well worth it.

 

ETA:

If you are worried about S&W saying the steel casing may damaging the extractor, I would take that with a grain of salt. The money you will save in ammo price on your first trip to the range will buy you a half dozen new extractors.

Edited October 9, 2012 by TheDon

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

To the OP, the first thing you should do is upgrade the trigger. I never understood how some ppl buy firearms, and then put $100's of dollars worth of accessories on, when the trigger is so much more important. Shitty trigger=shitty accuracy. I have a m&p15 chamberd in 5.56. Not the sport. The gas keys were not staked properly and it took THREE trips back to S&W to fix it. I know everyone says their CS is great, but I had to send my AR back three times. It literally seemed like they did not touch the gun the first two times. It took a nasty letter for them to finally fix it properly. But since then, it has run flawlessly and will serve you well. But look to upgrade the trigger, b/c the stock one is horrible.

 

EDIT: I forgot this thread was about ammo. My bad. Mine shoots steel cased ammo just fine. It makes the gun dirtier and doesn't perform as well as brass, but for range use, its fine.

[M1152 713]

To the OP, the first thing you should do is upgrade the trigger. I never understood how some ppl buy firearms, and then put $100's of dollars worth of accessories on, when the trigger is so much more important. Shitty trigger=shitty accuracy. I have a m&p15 chamberd in 5.56. Not the sport. The gas keys were not staked properly and it took THREE trips back to S&W to fix it. I know everyone says their CS is great, but I had to send my AR back three times. It literally seemed like they did not touch the gun the first two times. It took a nasty letter for them to finally fix it properly. But since then, it has run flawlessly and will serve you well. But look to upgrade the trigger, b/c the stock one is horrible.

 

EDIT: I forgot this thread was about ammo. My bad. Mine shoots steel cased ammo just fine. It makes the gun dirtier and doesn't perform as well as brass, but for range use, its fine.

The trigger is now upgraded, installed the Geissele Super Semi Automatic Trigger (SSA), only shot it with stock so looking forward to next time out to test trigger upgrade. the post is not restricted the ammo, I'm new to the AR so I'll listen to any advise or input on the system. As far as the ammo will stick to brass for now but may contact Wolf next and see what they say since S&W doesn't thing it is a good idea. That's not good to hear that there CS sucks, about 2 years ago I sent a used revolver back for trigger work and they took care of it fairly quick and I'm not the original owner.

 

 

 

 

Love the M&P 15. IMHO, it is an awesome entry level rifle for the AR platform. There is no need to jump into a $1,500 rifle until after you fall in love.

 

Russian ammo is good enough for a M&P15. I do not think you will be able to perceive the difference in accuracy inside of 50 yards. I have shot (or, my kids have shot) 10's of thousands of rounds of Tul, Wolf, and Bear and we never had a single round fail to go bang or FTE. The dirty factor is the only thing you really need to consider. My kids can blow through 300+ rounds in an afternoon of shooting. So, for me the cost difference is well worth it.

 

ETA:

If you are worried about S&W saying the steel casing may damaging the extractor, I would take that with a grain of salt. The money you will save in ammo price on your first trip to the range will buy you a half dozen new extractors.

You got my number, I had shotgun news open tonight looking at parts entertaining the thought of doing a build this winter.I checked out a few youtube videos and the lower looks pretty easy but I still would have some questions.I think my own build could be next, a little more research and then I give it a shot. As I mentioned above for now will stick with the brass but will re-visit the Russian ammo again, will contact wolf and see what they say. I've shot hundred of rounds of Russian with my Kel-Tec and no issues whatsoever so if the SU16 could shoot Russian you would think the M&P 15 should be OK with it...

[vladtepes 1,060]

The trigger is now upgraded, installed the Geissele Super Semi Automatic Trigger (SSA), only shot it with stock so looking forward to next time out to test trigger upgrade. the post is not restricted the ammo, I'm new to the AR so I'll listen to any advise or input on the system. As far as the ammo will stick to brass for now but may contact Wolf next and see what they say since S&W doesn't thing it is a good idea. That's not good to hear that there CS sucks, about 2 years ago I sent a used revolver back for trigger work and they took care of it fairly quick and I'm not the original owner.

 

 

 

 

You got my number, I had shotgun news open tonight looking at parts entertaining the thought of doing a build this winter.I checked out a few youtube videos and the lower looks pretty easy but I still would have some questions.I think my own build could be next, a little more research and then I give it a shot. As I mentioned above for now will stick with the brass but will re-visit the Russian ammo again, will contact wolf and see what they say. I've shot hundred of rounds of Russian with my Kel-Tec and no issues whatsoever so if the SU16 could shoot Russian you would think the M&P 15 should be OK with it...

 

the only true disadvantage is that it is not a mid length gas system.. that is the only thing it lacks that I would be bothered by now that I am used to mid length..

[Fallout 3]

my AR HATES wolf ammo and other steel cased ammo. i always use remington or pmc

[M1152 713]

I gave Wolf a call and asked for their take and obviously the Rep said it should be fine. He suggested breaking-in new Sport rifle in with about 200 rds w/brass before switching to Wolf. He said the reason the steel case is dirtier than brass is because the steel case ammo doesn’t expand like the brass. When the Steel case ammo is fired it allows blow-by because of its inability to expand and seal like brass. For those that have already researched this probably nothing new here…so up to now still feeling pretty good about the Russian ammo, but not for long....

 

I’d commented earlier that my SU16(s) didn’t have any issues with any of the Russian ammo, in fact that is all I shoot out of them and I've put many rds thru both my SU16's. Long story short, I damaged one of my SU16’s foregrip and sent it in for repair. I received it back today and on the repair slip (standard form letter) it says; ***Steel, polymer and aluminum cased ammunitions are NOT recommended*** , I went on the KelTec forum to see what they say, in their FAQ it is the item, they say Laquer or polymer-coated steel-cased ammo (such as Wolf) should not be shot together *with brass-cased ammo, and the chamber should be thoroughly cleaned after shooting any laquer or polymer-coated steel-cased ammo so the great ammo debate still continues for me. I’m going to keep running the Russian in the SU16's but may just stick with brass for the Mini’s and new Sport.

 

Finally I’m really starting to like the AR platform with my little M&P 15 Sport. I’ve spent some time looking at the self builds over in the NJGF AR section and ALL are very impressive so it got me to thinking maybe I will go ahead and build one. From a mechanical standpoint I think I could do it w/o too much difficulty. When I get a better handle on the configuration I’d like to go it I will post a proposed parts list and ask for direction from you guys. In the meantime while poking around for AR parts yesterday found yet another ammo warning here http://www.dsarms.com/ammowarn.asp ,, another strike for Russian ammo

[rightisright 3]

When the Steel case ammo is fired it allows blow-by because of its inability to expand and seal like brass.

 

Bingo. Steel cased ammo doesn't obturate enough to get a good seal against the chamber.

 

Never follow steel cased ammo (my preference is to not use it at all!) w. brass cased. If you do, come prepared with a good case extractor (cleaning rod)!

 

I stick w. brass for my ARs and steel for my AK/Saigas

[Soju 153]

When it comes to steel cased ammo and AR's, I'm not going to say to use it. I'm not going to say to not use it. But I would say that you shouldn't come to any conclusions for or against it simply based on other peoples opinion or experience. And I would suggest trying it.

 

If you don't mind spending the money, don't want to even worry about potential issues, and don't want something that is generally dirtier by a good amount, then sure, even trying steel cased ammo probably isn't necessary.

 

If you would like to save money, and don't mind cleaning your rifle, there isn't much reason to not at least try steel cased ammo.

 

Personally, I have shot about 1500 rounds of steel cased ammo through my AR. I have not had a bad experience. So right now, I don't have a reason to NOT use steel cased ammo. When you are saving 40% on ammo costs, you can shoot more. I haven't seen any real differences in accuracy either.

 

Of course if you do try it, and have issues, then maybe your rifle isn't great for it, and it probably isn't worth it. But you won't know unless you try.

 

Make an informed decision. Don't miss out and waste money unnecessarily because of unfounded fear.

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

......

Make an informed decision. Don't miss out and waste money unnecessarily because of unfounded fear.

 

Preach on brother!!

 

Personally I save about $100 or more per 1000 rounds of Tula/wolf (steel) compared to 1000 rounds of pmc/xm193. My Adams arms eats steel with ease so I'm very happy and I was hesitant at first but I'm glad I tried it myself.

 

I have more than 1000 rounds of each steel and brass and I just alternate or shoot half of each per outing.

[M1152 713]

I’d like to upgrade to the stock but need some guidance so I get the order correct the first time. I placed a few links below; the first link is what I used to identify my tube, this is child’s play for most of you but being an AR newbie I have to ask… I’m 99.5% sure my stock use the Carbine with the keyed tube for lack of a better term. In the second link from the AR forum another NJ guy ask the same question. Assuming that is answer is correct does anyone have any experience with that setup and is that a practical solution or would you do something different? Is the product in link #3 all I need or do I need additional parts and the castle wrench?

 

http://ar15barrels.com/tech/stocks.jpg

http://www.ar15.com/...c=bottom#bottom

http://www.jsesurplu...kace-short.aspx

 

 

PS

More importantly Best of luck to ALL with the upcoming storm. These early storm models don't look good for the NE

[StanBo 1]

Mosin Fan how are you doing with the MP15? I am in the same boat now (shopping) and this one is on my list. New to ARs as well. Considered purchasing a fully built while getting comfortable with them and moving to a home made later.

[M1152 713]

Mosin Fan how are you doing with the MP15? I am in the same boat now (shopping) and this one is on my list. New to ARs as well. Considered purchasing a fully built while getting comfortable with them and moving to a home made later.

Not bad, I ended up following fellow member’s Bishop lead completing the stock. I was undecided at first with the stock extension but I ended up installing it and I like it allot because now I have a better fit. If I was more technical on the AR platform I would have liked to have built my own as well but didn’t want to end up with a bunch of mismatched parts. The plan was to lean from this one and build my own later but will have to see what happens after things clam down, that's another story for another day.... The two links below are from Bishop’s thread. The first link he is showing me choice of configurations, the second link is my M&P15 prior to installing the extension. I need to update to a more recent picture but all in all it is the same minus the extension and foam cover. I did wind up using the foam because had I left it off you could see where it is pieced together by way of the extension.

 

Bishop's Ace side x side comparison

M&P 15 w/o extension

 

The other upgrade worth mentioning again is the Geissele trigger(s) that fellow member vladtepes mentioned, He has a higher end Geissele but I purchased their baseline SSA model which is a huge improvement over the stock S&W trigger, I suppose that's another reason to build your own but it is what it is.

[DavidV433 0]

i also bought the sport, i've only fired brass rounds thru it so far about 150 rounds. im gonna wait till about 200 rounds to use the steel case tula that i bought off a member, thanks to clintoons recommendation. from reading this thread im gonna look into changing the trigger.

[BossyMossy 0]

Congrats buddy! I just got mine over the weekend as well, so i definitely know how it feels. Enjoy!

[BossyMossy 0]

ha just realized this thread is like three months old.

[millsan1 3]

I am picking up my Sport today or tomorrow, depending on when NICS gets back to my shop.

[Rifleman1 32]

Shot 60 rounds at Heritage Guild yesterday, all PMC X-Tac 55gr. Laser boresighter due to arrive on Wednesday so I can zero the scopes. Love the M&P15 Sport so far.