Wife got pulled over

[panteramatt 27]

So this morning my wife calls me pretty mad. Shes going to work and gets pulled over by state police. Woman walks up to her truck and tells her she pulled her over for a fog light being out. Im not starting anything here just want to know, is it really illegal to have a FOG light out? Headlight I can see but seriously? Im not starting anything here cause I have friends in LE but I know I woulda been pissed if she had made me late to work and figure the state police have way better things to do. Maybe some of the LE on here can shed some light.

[remixer 1,645]

if its legal or not seems pretty petty thing to do considering there are real crimes that need attention.

[lunker 274]

One word. REVENUE

[bry@n 195]

I assume she didn't get a ticket ?

[Scott204 1]

no law on fog lights being out just headlights. Technically the verbage for fog lights is auxillary driving lights. and the only laws that are required of them is color and number you are allowed to have.

[Scott204 1]

One word. REVENUE

 

REALLY??? one ticket for headlight not working is really going to get enough REVENUE to suuport the state huh.

[lunker 274]

REALLY??? one ticket for headlight not working is really going to get enough REVENUE to suuport the state huh.

 

multiply that times several per day per officer and it adds up.

[panteramatt 27]

The woman comes back with a warning and acted like she was doing my wife a favor. And revenue? How much would the ticket have been $50? I just cant believe any cop especially a TROOPER would have wasted a taxpayers time in the morning knowing there going to work. And my wife had a 40 minute drive. I would have probally been arrested.

[Scott204 1]

So you are syaing officers are told to go out and write tickets to make money for towns????

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Ok wait a minute,,,, Did she get a ticket???

 

If not, I would look at it as a courtesy notification that it was out being a fog light not working is a lot less notable than a headlight.

 

Now if she got a ticket, That's another story being they aren't required equipment, and if so, what was the ticket violation..

[Urban Grunt 44]

I'd say if you have a light out it gives reason to stop and check anything else that may not be working,also to inform the driver of the defective light.

[bry@n 195]

It's the point that she got pulled over for a bs reason because the cop was fishing.

 

I don't know about nj, but in NYC, there is a quota. At least if you like nights and weekends off.

[panteramatt 27]

Ok wait a minute,,,, Did she get a ticket???

 

If not, I would look at it as a courtesy notification that it was out being a fog light not working is a lot less notable than a headlight.

 

Now if she got a ticket, That's another story being they aren't required equipment, and if so, what was the ticket violation..

 

She didnt get a ticket just a warning. For one, if its not illegal why did she even get a warning? Two, if it was out of courtesy, why did the cop run her license? Ive never heard of a cop caring about a citezen enough to pull them over to let them know about a fog light for their protection! Third, I wonder if she had something wrong like no insurance or no license if she would get out of it in court do to getting pulled over for a BS reason?

[Wikkie2204 0]

It's been a while since I've had to read Title 39 but isn't there a Failure to Maintain ticket, pursuant to lights?

 

(A quick google search would have answered my own question)

 

39:3-66. Maintenance of lamps, reflectors, etc.

All lamps, reflectors and other illuminating devices required by this article shall be kept clean and in good working order and, as far as practicable, shall be mounted in such a manner as to reduce the likelihood of their being obscured by mud or dust thrown up by the wheels.

 

I'm not sure what devices are required by this article but this obscure statute has a $44 fine attached to it.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Wikkie2204

[tony357 386]

Fishing.

[WVisHome 0]

Don't specifically know in NJ, but I know in the past I've heard that if you have lights and they're on, they ALL have to work. I recall hearing stories about pickups being pulled over for having one of those yellow lights out on top of the cab.

[panteramatt 27]

Ok, heres what I found:

 

 

3-47 Improper lighting equipment; altering equipment $44

3-47a Headlights required with wipers $44

3-49 Headlights $44

3-49(a) Headlights while wipers on $25

3-50 Improper use of emergency lights (Limited to subsection (a) and (b) only) $44

3-51 Improper auxiliary driving lamps $44

3-52 Improper additional lighting equipment and use thereof $44

3-53 Spot lamps $44

3-54 Special restriction on lights $44

3-55 Improper operation with alternate road lighting equipment $44

 

3-56 Operating without front lighted lamps $44

3-57 Improper single beam lighting $44

3-58 Improper multiple beam headlights $44

3-59 No light beam indicator $44

3-60 Improper use of high and low headlight beams $44

3-61 Lamps and reflectors required on particular vehicles $44

3-61.1 Mounting of lamps and reflectors $44

3-61.2 Combination of lighting devices and reflectors; prohibited combinations $44

3-61.3 Stop Lamps: construction, placement and use $44

3-61.4 Overhanging loads; placement and use of red lamps and flags $44

3-62 Unlighted lamps on parked vehicle $44

3-64 Emergency warning light equipment $44

3-64.3 Signals to flash simultaneously when stopped for transacting business $44

3-65 Lamps on other vehicle and equipment $44

3-66 Maintenance of lamps $44

[A-Tech 8]

As far as I know, all lights have to function. Whether they are auxiliary or not. If they are there, they must function.

[lunker 274]

So you are syaing officers are told to go out and write tickets to make money for towns????

 

I can't speak to whether this is true for State Troopers, but I am friendly with local officers who have told me there is a "suggested" amount of tickets they are supposed to write each month. There was a series in the New York Post a few years back where several anonymous NYPD officers indicated they had unofficial ticket quotas to uphold, or they would suffer consequences like bad assignments, etc. Higher up brass denied this of course.

And as a teenager who grew up in North Jersey and frequently drove into NYC, end of the month ticket quota time was not a figment of our imagination. Myself and most of my friends had gotten at least one ticket in the area of the 59th street overpass at one point or another. Thankfully though, back then NYC did not reciprocate very well with New Jersey, and we just threw the tickets in the trash. Can't do that any more unfortunately.

[Dan 177]

Fishing expedition IMO. So many laws are on the books that if any cop wanted to pull anyone over, they can easily find some law to justify the stop. That's just reality.

[Luso 6]

That's nothing. someone very close to me was on their way to work in the morning. Got pulled over by a state trooper on the parkway. The person in question asked if there was an issue, and the trooper replied "I heard 2 other cars honk at you as you drove by them, which probably means you were speeding..no one honks at people for no reason" I am not kidding. That was his line.

 

Got a ticket for "reckless driving".

 

I told the person I would smack them if they paid that ticket. Asked for discovery and plead not guilty. Go to court.

 

No discovery on first appearance. ok

 

No discovery on 2nd appearance, tries to ask for dismissal, judge cuts off the person in question and grants another court date for the state.

 

3rd court appearance, same thing. tries to get a word in, shut up and cut off by judge

 

4th appearance, same thing.

 

5th appearance. Furious and losing hope, the person insists on getting a word in when the judge again cuts them off. The state at this point has had 5 months to produce any and all evidence of the speeding and "reckless" driving and has refused to do so. the judge said they get one more shot

 

6th appearance, finally, thrown out.

 

 

I can't tell you how many times this happens, and sadly most people, especially women, are so petrified of cops and a court room, they are DIEING to open up their walllet to pay a fine and get the hell out of there.

 

So many times these officers make something up, probably multiple times a day, and prey on the fact that statistically, most people will not even fight it, and the ones who do, will plea and still get a fine out of them. It's tyranny, and it;s nothing more than a municipal bake sale.

 

I wouldn't mind it so much if the municipal courts werent holding hands with the public prosecutors, but they are. They know it fills their coffers, and they will grind you down until you submit. Do you know what its like to call out of work for 6 days over the course of 6 months? Most people don't have that resilience.

 

The same thing happened to me. I saw a cop (in another state) in the bushes, I slowed down. I met eyes with him as I passed knowing I wasn't speeding. pulled me over and gave me a speeding ticket, and as he handed it to me, ADVISED ME to plead it down and they would probably "knock the points off". What kind of officer gives out tickets, in the interest of pubic safety and of increasing his record of tickets, while advising you to plead to a lesser crime and avoiding the stiff penalties? That to me screams "we are raising money" not "we are trying to deter you from doing unsafe things".

 

I send certified letters for discovery. I don't get it. Go to the court date. Prosecutor treats me like I am a rapist (remember, this is an ALLEGED speeding violation). I told him I asked for discovery and I would like to see it before I move forward with my plea. ANyone has the right to see the evidence to be used against them. Otherwise, I would be happy with pleaing the 4 point ticket to zero and paying a small fine. I was very busy and needed to get back to my job and would be willing to pay just the fine in exchange for moving on with my life. He brings in a second cop into the little plea room to loom over me and scream at me for not taking his plea bargain. They refused to budge on the plea (they wanted only to make the 4 pt down to a 2 pt, I refused to have points on my record as I never have, and I know he didnt catch me, it was principle) I kindly ask to leave so that we can just discuss it in court. After 10 minutes of them yelling at me, I go to the judge. The judge is about to dismiss because they gave me no evidence. A court clerk runs up from the back fo the room screaming and hands a paper to the judge. It's a printout from the police officer's cruiser that he filled in when he gave me the violation. All it says is what he alleges I was doing (address, time of infraction, alleged speed, etc) The judge shows it to me and says "did you get this?" i said "yes, that's not evidence. That's a template for the ticket that officer XXX filled out in his cruiser. Anyone can write on a piece of paper what they think happened. That alone isn't evidence that I was speeding. I want the printout from his radar gun, a certificate of his training, a certificate of his last gun inspection. etc etc"

 

The judge then looks at me in a coy fashion and says "well..what do you want to do now?" As if to say, he knows there is some magical legal buzzword I can use that would get this dismissed at this point. I tell him I want discovery or I want the ticket dismissed. The judge then actually says "there really isn't discovery for issues like this, this is just minor traffic court".

 

Can you believe that? They don't need evidence you stole or murdered someone. They just need to SAY you did, and you are powerless to defend yourself.

 

I asked for an adjournment because I was so dumbfounded I seriously didnt know how to proceed. I come back a second time, and the officer wasn't there, so the prosecutor quickly told me before going to the bench that he gets 1 adjournment as well. Reasonable.

 

Appearance 3, cop isn't there again, and the prosecutor, who squeezed my balls the first time with another cop, suddenly goes "THe cop isn't here, and you are such a wiseass, this is ridiculous that I am still seeing your face in my courtroom. I tell you what, we don't have time for this anymore, I'll give you zero points and you pay an improper parking ticket and get the hell out of here"

 

At this point, I am so fed up with this guy, now I want to take it to them. I said "no thanks, the cop isn't here, i'll gladly plead my case to the judge and get the ticket dismissed altogether. The cop doesn't respect me enough to show up to his court dates while I am missing 3 days of work, that's not my problem."

 

The guy went off on me. The people outside were shaking thinking I had killed someone. All this , over something I didn't do. I told him to stop screaming at me , and finally cut him off "let me explain something to you, my state (NJ) and your state have the following relationship. No matter how many points I get on a ticket in your state, if I plead guilty, only 2 points transfer to my NJ license. Now put yourself in my shoes. I could take your plea, I would get 2 points and a fine. I could just straight up PLEAD GUILTY and walk away and not even have to speak to you or a judge, guess what my result is? 2 points and a fine! same thing! Right now, I'm most encouraged to get the judge to dismiss this where at least I'll get away with no points or fine, and guess what happens if I lose in court??? 2 points and a fine!! I have zero reason to sit here and get berated by you."

 

He starts insulting me telling me I'm a wiseass, that I think the court room is a joke, that I am wasting the police forces time by having cops come to traffic court while there is a "state of emergency" going on in the country (this was during sandy). I said that's not my problem, if the officer isn't willing to come to court, I would advise you tell him to stop writing tickets. Look, you think you have problems? This week my house almost got destroyed, I have a house on the jersey shore. I have x y and z going on with my family. I have a business I run in your town here that fills your public coffers with revenue. You think I am spending more than 2 seconds of my day thinking about or worrying about this stupid ticket?? I've had enough of you , give me the parking ticket and we're done here, otherwise, you know what I am going to tell the judge. I am not taking your plea" I figured the same thing that happened to my friend would happen to me, where continuances would just keep rolling from the judge, so I was prepared to just pay a fine with no points and be done with this bully. He gives me the parking ticket with no points, opens the door, and as I walk out to the line of 30 people at the window, with cops everywhere, he yells out loud "I DONT EVER WANT TO SEE YOUR FACE SPEEDING IN MY TOWN AGAIN!!!!!" THe entire room looks at me, women literally grasped their little children tighter to their legs. It was as if I was a criminal. I said "well, I run a business that pays taxes to this town and supports the fine officers of your police force, so unfortunately you will be seeing a lot of me".

 

He calls in another woman, my goodness, she was out of that room in 2 seconds, she immediately paid whatever plea he offered here, then he yells at me to "get back in his room" he proceeds to tell me I am a jerk, a wiseass, I think I'm funny. You can't make this stuff up. I asked if he was finished and that I would leave.

 

There was a turning point where the guy laid off, told me a story about some friend he his has a house in toms river, and suddenly softened up. Moral of the story, these people use intimidation (and lies) to get you to plead. Their cops write nonsense tickets all the time, won't show up, and then the bulldog prosecutors seal the deal. The money stays in house. It's a great business model. How dare someone demand their rights, and see the evidence laid before them. You are a condescending "wiseass" if you do that, and you are "putting people at risk during a state of emergency"

 

 

Moral of the story???? Get a ticket, never pay it. I urge everyone who gets a speeding ticket to in writing with a certified letter, petition for discovery. Half of the time, they won't have anything and it will get thrown out. What matters is having the stamina of taking on their bullying tactics. If everyone didn't bend over like these scared housewives I saw in that courthouse, they would clog up those courts so fast, that these police chiefs would be FORCED to tell their officers "stop writing bs tickets, you better have the goods when you pull someone over." then you don't have to waste the courts time, you just serve the defendant their discovery and they are screwed and case is closed.

 

Clog up those bully municipal courts, make them think twice before LYING about what you were doing.

[jgofnj 5]

......., why did the cop run her license?

 

They will always run the license, one reason is to see if there is an outstanding warrent, It's normal procedure.

[Scott204 1]

"So many times these officers make something up, probably multiple times a day, and prey on the fact that statistically, most people will not even fight it, and the ones who do, will plea and still get a fine out of them. It's tyranny, and it;s nothing more than a municipal bake sale."

 

Its comments like these that make me hate this forum.

[Luso 6]

Another note, the prosecutor was also a cop, so while he's looming over you in a chair, he has his hand on his belt where there is a nice Sig and a taser at either side of him. Think about what that does psychologically to someone who isn't comfortable with guns.

 

What I don't get about these people, is what I was offering them, was the same result for them..MONEY. Whether I get points or not, doesnt matter to them. Once he realized his cop was never going to show up, why doesnt he just play it smart, give me the plea that I want, take my money, have the same end result, and I am out of his hair not bothering him? they only think with their cocks, it's all about winning, not even achieving the result they want.

 

I still contend, there should never be a police officer sitting on the side of the road waiting for people speeding. That to me means one thing: the police budget is too big. fire someone. All the nonsense ever does is almost cause accidents. I can't tell you how many times cars in front of me SLAM ON THEIR BRAKES for no reason, and its because a cop is sitting there in a cruiser up ahead. They cause MORE DANGER than they do preventing accidents by writing tickets. Seeing cops hanging out on the side of the road does little to raise respect from the public. they should be investigating actual criminals

[FLHX 1]

My son got the same BS ticket for having his fog lamp out. The women cop was very nasty, basically saying he was causing a dangerous situation by having one fog light out. My son was very nice and took his ticket and didn't say anything but yes ma'am and no ma'am. She just had a bad attitude and was looking for problems and for him to give her an attitude. The nicer he was the more pissed she got.

[Luso 6]

"So many times these officers make something up, probably multiple times a day, and prey on the fact that statistically, most people will not even fight it, and the ones who do, will plea and still get a fine out of them. It's tyranny, and it;s nothing more than a municipal bake sale."

 

Its comments like these that make me hate this forum.

 

It's situations like mine that make me feel that way. What happened in that story is real. How would you feel if it happened to you? Do you like being accused of crimes, and then having a court of law tell you, they don't have to give you discovery? THat you have to plead guilty?

[panteramatt 27]

Wow good writeup luso and good for you for standing up for yourself. I think these bs tickets should be illegal to hand out. Seriously, dont we taxpayers pay enough!!!

[Luso 6]

Wow good writeup luso and good for you for standing up for yourself. I think these bs tickets should be illegal to hand out. Seriously, dont we taxpayers pay enough!!!

 

Thank you. Let me be clear, I don't hate police officers. There are great men and women out there.

 

But let's not be naive. They know they have a chief to keep happy. There are people out there who will write dubious tickets. My beef here lies more in the questionable court system than the officer. If the officer wants to write a bogus ticket, fine, but when I contest it, if they don't have the goods, the court and the judge need to drop it. They don't because they want to wear you down and suck the money out of you. Very few people will go to the lengths of the above stories, not even because they aren't brave enough, they simply don't have the time! And the courts know that!

[brocglock23 4]

"So many times these officers make something up, probably multiple times a day, and prey on the fact that statistically, most people will not even fight it, and the ones who do, will plea and still get a fine out of them. It's tyranny, and it;s nothing more than a municipal bake sale." Its comments like these that make me hate this forum.

While there are times where police pull me over for legitimate reasons there are times where I'm thinking WTF did I do?

List of my favorite reasons:

Cop: You looked like you were going pretty fast. Me: Can you really judge what looks fast

Cop: You didn't stop long enough. Me: A stop is a stop whether it is 1 second or 1 minute.

Cop: You were doing 50 mph in a 45. Me: The sign back there said 50mph so I was doing 50. Cop: That sign must be wrong.

 

I've had privilege of meeting some really nice officers but there are some who have ego complexes so I don't think it's right to "hate this forum" because some people are complaining about some bad experiences involving police. Unless you think police can't do wrong, ever.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Driving/Fog light (mounted down low), or Day Time Running Lights (mounted higher)? Guess she doesn't have that magic gold shield on her dashboard, huh? You know the shield from observing the same laws the rest of us mortals have to obey....................