A4001: Requires firearms endorsement on DL IDs *UPDATED*

[varna 9]

I just recieved a response to my e-mail to Nelson Albano on this DL bill......

 

I just wanted to let you know that this was a staff error and that the

Assemblyman did not intend to be a co-sponsor of the legislation, and

does not support the legislation. We have submmited the paperwork to

remove the Assemblyman from the bill.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

 

---

Jonathan S. Atwood

Legislative Director

 

Senator Jeff Van Drew

Assemblyman Nelson T. Albano

 

1124 North High St.

Millville, NJ 08332

 

P: 856-765-0891

F: 856-765-0897

[Chvl67 0]

Reading some of the comments in the "Essex" thread got me thinking-how the F would this work? Meaning, if I move, I need to update my DL address. Takes about 10 minutes at the DMV if I want a new license instead of the stickies. If I move, in order to update my FPID, I need to go through the ridiculous background and mental health search-AGAIN.

So are we to believe that this process will do away with the HUGE wait to get an updated FPID, or will they DENY your DL address update because your FPID updates would not be "approved"?

Although I suspect this is all just a moot point-because the FPID is not being REPLACED with the DL endorsement-it's just another way to demonize firearms owners, and otherwise make them guilty criminals with the "Scarlet F"...

[tony357 386]

I do not think this will pass their is no need for it unless they just want to call you out when you are carded ( getting pulled over)

it would be hard to fake a fire arms card with all the back ground checks..

[tt-33 8]

now this if someones on megans list is that on a dl ,every time I need id the world will be informed im a gun owner.where is this going special licence plates or a bumper sticker guns may be on board

[Nikos 31]

Bill updated 04/04/2013 to show details (link below)

http://www.njleg.sta...500/4001_I1.PDF

 

 

A4001 MAINOR, JIMENEZ

3

1 STATEMENT

2

3 This bill would require State residents who have a permit to

4 purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card to

5 obtain a firearms endorsement on his or her driver’s license. If the

6 resident does not have a driver’s license, the resident would be

7 required to obtain a firearms endorsement on a non-driver

8 identification card as issued by the New Jersey Motor Vehicle

9 Commission (MVC).

10 When the resident renews his or her driver’s license or non

11driver identification card, the bill would require the resident to

12 provide evidence as required by the Chief Administrator of the

13 MVC and the Superintendent of State Police that he or she has not

14 been disqualified to possess a firearm.

15 Under the bill, firearms retailers in this State would be prohibited

16 from selling a firearm to a resident who does not produce a valid

17 driver’s license or non-driver identification card which has a

18 firearms endorsement.

19 The bill would also require residents to exhibit their driver’s

20 license or non-driver identification card with a firearms

21 endorsement upon request of a law enforcement officer. It is

22 presumptive evidence under the bill that a resident who fails to

23 exhibit the license or identification card does not have a valid

24 firearms purchaser identification card.

25 A fine of $500 would be imposed on a resident who fails to

26 obtain the firearms endorsement required by the bill and his or her

27 permit to purchase a handgun or firearms identification card would

28 be revoked.

29 The fee for the firearms endorsement would be set by the chief

30 administrator.

[BOOMSTICK 6]

29 The fee for the firearms endorsement would be set by the chief

 

Wonder how much that will run us? *shakes head*

[Nikos 31]

1. We need to have our DL ID endorsed

2. We need to prove to the MVC that we're not disqualified tobpossess firearms

3. Failure to get our DLs endorsed will result to $500 fine and loss of permits. Or FPID?

4. FFLs cannot sell us firearms w/o DL endorsement even though we have FPID & permits

5. **NOT CLEAR** we must provide our ID to Law Enforcement upon request. Sounds like we're getting singled out.

6. This will incur additional burdens and costs to exercise our 2nd amendment right.

7. Mainor is a pr1ck.

[ifjpm 0]

This bill is going way to far. So everytime you go to a doctors office, get a blood test or requested a photo ID every scumbag out there is going to know where they can come and burglarized your house to get firearms. This is the worst bill I have seen yet.

[10X 3,296]

1. We need to have our DL ID endorsed

2. We need to prove to the MVC that we're not disqualified tobpossess firearms

3. Failure to get our DLs endorsed will result to $500 fine and loss of permits. Or FPID?

4. FFLs cannot sell us firearms w/o DL endorsement even though we have FPID & permits

5. **NOT CLEAR** we must provide our ID to Law Enforcement upon request. Sounds like we're getting singled out.

6. This will incur additional burdens and costs to exercise our 2nd amendment right.

7. Mainor is a pr1ck.

 

This accomplishes exactly nothing that isn't already covered by the FID, but it does create a huge new bureaucracy--under the DMV, which can't run the one they've already got. And yes, it singles us out.

[bhunted 887]

KMADF!

[AlDente67 563]

More cash for the DMV, hooray!

 

Let's do this:

-Make the stamp mandatory on the DL

-Make another stamp mandatory on the FID (that you have a drivers license)

-Make mandatory a facial tattoo, ala Mike Tyson

-Rub your belly and pat your head at the same time

-Anything else the DMV Director can come up with

 

Repeat every 2 years

[Babyface Finster 45]

God, I can't wait to leave this shithole behind.

[RUTGERS95 890]

not sure how this can pass legal reivew

[mipafox 438]

1. We need to have our DL ID endorsed

2. We need to prove to the MVC that we're not disqualified tobpossess firearms

3. Failure to get our DLs endorsed will result to $500 fine and loss of permits. Or FPID?

4. FFLs cannot sell us firearms w/o DL endorsement even though we have FPID & permits

5. **NOT CLEAR** we must provide our ID to Law Enforcement upon request. Sounds like we're getting singled out.

6. This will incur additional burdens and costs to exercise our 2nd amendment right.

7. Mainor is a pr1ck.

 

8. Applies only to law-abiding citizens.

 

Courts have held that criminals cannot be required to register their firearms and cannot be punished for failure to register.  It is a Fifth Amendment violation.  Only otherwise law abiding citizens can be punished for failure to register firearms.  I would assume the same would apply to a driver's license endorsement. I am obviously not a lawyer.

[wooly bugger 1]

1. We need to have our DL ID endorsed

2. We need to prove to the MVC that we're not disqualified tobpossess firearms

3. Failure to get our DLs endorsed will result to $500 fine and loss of permits. Or FPID?

4. FFLs cannot sell us firearms w/o DL endorsement even though we have FPID & permits

5. **NOT CLEAR** we must provide our ID to Law Enforcement upon request. Sounds like we're getting singled out.

For 2, does this mean that in another Essex fiasco, we'd essentially be indefinitely unable to drive?

For 5, are we required to produce any drivers license upon request? What if we're jogging and didn't bring our wallet? Is this the next step toward, "papers please?"

 

I doubt this will pass, but it's terrifying that anyone would even propose this.

[gunguy1960 2]

If it allows us to use gun racks in our trucks and plink while driving down the road I might be in favor of it, belt feds would have to be out the sunroof.

[SlipperyPete 0]

Can you imagine the backlog, and lines at Motor Vehicle if you have to get a new license? We have already witnessed the fiasco of the NICS delays. Another piece of legislation the does nothing but demonize law abiding folks, and does nothing to fight crime.

[BCeagle 12]

not sure how this can pass legal reivew

 

I'll file the challenge for free on day one, if I get some help.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

Christie would NEVER sign this!!!

[njgunrunner 0]

No, I'm not. They want everyone to upgrade to a photo FID. NJSP has to comment on that bill, and they'll likely flip out when they figure out what this will do to local PDs.

Your local Pd will now have to re-investigate you on each renewal prior to renewing the fid card. For some towns, that will result in a delay of 2-3 months on fid card renewals. plus, look out if the pd renewal letter gets lost in the mail. you get arrested and your guns are seized.

[voyager9 3,434]

Your local Pd will now have to re-investigate you on each renewal prior to renewing the fid card. For some towns, that will result in a delay of 2-3 months on fid card renewals. plus, look out if the pd renewal letter gets lost in the mail. you get arrested and your guns are seized.

 

Pretty sure the "FID" is really a FPID.. The "P" is for purchaser. I need the ID to purchase a firearm, not own one. If this new bill went into effect and my ID expired I wouldn't be able to purchase any new firearms but could still legally own my existing ones.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

If those firearms were pistols, and you needed ammo, you'd need the FPID...

[Tallday 10]

Makes no sense for most in NJ. would be different if we were able to CCW could help LEO on traffic stops. But could also lead to more questions about whats in the car or on you! and would that be enough "cause" to have you get out and be searched?

[Chvl67 0]

Your local Pd will now have to re-investigate you on each renewal prior to renewing the fid card. For some towns, that will result in a delay of 2-3 months on fid card renewals. plus, look out if the pd renewal letter gets lost in the mail. you get arrested and your guns are seized.

There's absolutely no way they can do this without upgrading the process and the systems that accompany it. I know this bill speaks nothing to it, but I have it on authority that a large number of Troopers in the NJSP want out of the process altogether, NICS included. What they'd like to see is some sort of data incorporated into the bar coding on your DL (not an actual endorsement, like the "M" for motorcycle) so that they could run your license if needed to determine your status. The only way this works is if they do away with the FPID and P2P process altogether. Meaning, they'd get on board with the Federal NICS check system reporting, and replace all the aspects of the "approval" process with that--including for P2P's. Once you're "endorsed", you just hand your DL to the FFL, pick out your weapon, he runs the NICS check like PA, and you're done. Of course whether any actually LISTENS to the guys in the NJSP that want this remains to be seen, and whether the legislators who don't want anyone to have firearms allows it to happen is another story.

[voyager9 3,434]

There's absolutely no way they can do this without upgrading the process and the systems that accompany it. I know this bill speaks nothing to it, but I have it on authority that a large number of Troopers in the NJSP want out of the process altogether, NICS included. What they'd like to see is some sort of data incorporated into the bar coding on your DL (not an actual endorsement, like the "M" for motorcycle) so that they could run your license if needed to determine your status. The only way this works is if they do away with the FPID and P2P process altogether. Meaning, they'd get on board with the Federal NICS check system reporting, and replace all the aspects of the "approval" process with that--including for P2P's. Once you're "endorsed", you just hand your DL to the FFL, pick out your weapon, he runs the NICS check like PA, and you're done. Of course whether any actually LISTENS to the guys in the NJSP that want this remains to be seen, and whether the legislators who don't want anyone to have firearms allows it to happen is another story.

 

That wouldn't work with private f2f transactions.

[njgunrunner 0]

Just read this:

"A3676 also requires a privacy invading in-home inspection as a condition for issuance of an FID card"

 

Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland..../#ixzz2QJkelcYR

 

New Jersey law provides that an FID card is void if the holder becomes subject to a “disability.” Accordingly, if these bills take effect, ALL persons already holding an FID card who have not had the home inspection, psychological evaluation, or provided the list of household members (and thereby overcome the “disabilities” imposed by the legislation) MUST TURN IN their Firearms ID card to the Police. The turn in must be done within 5 days by law or face prosecution for 4th Degree Crime (Felony -18 months prison time.)

Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland..../#ixzz2QJli2zIK

 

this is of concern: "New Jersey law states that it is unlawful to purchase or possess a firearm without having first obtained a New Jersey Firearms Identification card."

 

so, does this bill really mean everyone will need a home inspection (A3676), or they must surrender the FID card and w/o the FID card they must surrender all firearms?

[TK421 2]

So here is the question, do my 2nd amendment rights not exist if I do not obtain a permit? I think there is enough precedent in the law to know these types of laws would never pass constitutional muster. I'm waiting for someone to take on NY for their recent spat of BS revoking people's firearm "permits."

[CMJeepster 2,778]

So here is the question, do my 2nd amendment rights not exist if I do not obtain a permit? I think there is enough precedent in the law to know these types of laws would never pass constitutional muster.

Next they'll want you to get a permit to practice your chosen religion.

[Babyface Finster 45]

Next they'll want you to get a permit to practice your chosen religion.

 

Not if it's the "right" one.

[Pythagoras 2]

So here is the question, do my 2nd amendment rights not exist if I do not obtain a permit? I think there is enough precedent in the law to know these types of laws would never pass constitutional muster. I'm waiting for someone to take on NY for their recent spat of BS revoking people's firearm "permits."

Next they'll want you to get a permit to practice your chosen religion.

Not if it's the "right" one.

 

This right here. *smh*