Market forces, NICS, etc.

[Mreed731 5]

I feel for FFL's these days.. I couldn't imagine not being able to get inventory for my business. And losing customers to an out of state shop not because I don't service them, or treat them well or charge competitive prices but instead simply because I can't get inventory to sell to them..has to suck. There is no way I would buy any firearms out of state right now. To me it's far more important to support my local shop so they will be there for me in the future. NICS is more a nightmare for them than us in my opinion. What the hell's the hurry? Yes, I too would like to bring home my new toy the same day I buy it, but these days it's just not happening so I'm sure as hell not going to let the FFL suffer even more just because I have to have instant gratification. Last Saturday I bought an FNS 9 from Paul at Arms & Ammo, I paid for it in full, I have to pay for it anyway so why make him wait just because my local PD has had my dam permit application for 4 weeks now? Oh and by the way, while I was at Paul's place he was busy on the phone arguing with the SP or someone in authority over the NICS delays and the impact it is having on permits. Amazingly he doesn't seem too concerned about the huge profits in the $10 monthly storage....oh that's right, he doesn't charge it.

[Donobieus 15]

Accepting mail? Hah.

 

Ffl takes 100% of the liability, the hours or work to log the gun, call or fax Nics, see you once or twice, and have your guns take up space in his safe. Then there is the chance you get Nics rejected, or wait months for permits or fid, or your gun is not nj compliant.

 

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

 

I would not order a firearm without the proper permits, nor one that wasnt NJ compliant.  And if i did i would expect to pay for it to be NJ compliant.  Im not talking about that kind of charge at all.  The HOURS of work to log the ONE gun i purchased is why the fee is acceptable, as well as the Nics fee.  Please dont assume that im complaining about anyone making money where and when they can.  Its the OVERCHARGING for a transfer fee that makes the sale not worth it that i was making reference to.  And SEEING me once or twice is how you build a customer base, not something i would complain about.

 

I think FFLs are getting squeezed by the NICs situation. Some of us have stopped purchasing b/c of the ammo shortages and NICs delays; others are purchasing out-of-state; and still others are doing a lot of private transfers/sales of ammo and firearms. FFLS, like any other business, want to turn over inventory fast. And, in my experience (albeit limited), FFLs have ALWAYS taken care of good customers or new customers. IMHO, dealers are suffering right along side us.

 

 

 

Stopped purchasing???  That makes no sense whatsoever.  Without inventory you make zero profit.  I have no problems with waiting for the nics check if my local FFLs had ANYTHING in stock that is easily found online at multiple sites. Example...I was looking for a Ruger P95.  Found it at 5 different online stores ranging between $306 and $400.  Both of the FFLs i visited told me that it would take months to get one and quoted me a price of over $500 if and when they did get one.  As a customer why would i consider that at all???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bhunted 887]

Love how everyone went off on tangents. What was the point of this whole thread? The OP originally determined pretty much that if we put pressure on he ffls, that they'd be forced or enacted to get legislation proposed.

 

Obviously, that was a bad idea and mindset.

 

Now everyone has redirected this thread into a match involving nics and transfers and their associated fees. Also pricing and stocked items. Someone pointed out that there are a plethora of ffls offering all types of pricing. As free Americans, you are all also free to shop how you see fit.

 

What is the point of pissing about a few that do not satisfy your needs while also kicking them in the arse for not having stock? If you can save time and hundreds of dollars, by all means, go or it!

 

What I as well as others have seen during our 2A dilemma is panic buying or all sorts. It literally screwed up the market. Say thanks to yourselves or anyone that joined that band wagon.

 

We've also seen what looks like little children that can't get their toys fast enough, so they stomp and cry like babies. In what we live in right now, timing is of the essence if you are in dire need. But if you're not, what the hell are your problems?

 

If you all haven't figured out by now that WE the people are responsible for a lot of this and WE the people are the ones that must try to fix it, then you must have just woken up! Well, now it's time to smell the coffee! Use your heads and stop pissing in each other's ears and use your energy where needed. Not here or pissing down every other person's necks. We need to ban together with each other and this includes the ffls.

 

So tell me... What was the point of this long diatribe? This thread is way off from the original. All he needed was to be informed. Consider him informed.

 

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Donobieus 15]

Youre right bhunted.  I may have gone a lil overboard....Although im pretty sure i didnt piss in anyone's ear.  And if i did i apologize wholeheartedly....but they should have removed their head from the bowl...just sayin.  

[mustang69 505]

Not all FFL's charge a lot of money for their services.

I (for example) only charge $25.00 + NICS but this isn't about me, it's about

people who throw mud because they are unhappy with the system.

 

I would think a customer would want to establish a relationship with his/her dealer

and not base every decision solely on the bottom line cost of a particular firearm.

I have many customers who ask for favors, spl requests, ect. and the regulars get

treated like friends / family - Do you get that when you travel out of state for your gun?

I think not!

This, exactly.  It's times like these when the relationship with my FFL really matters.  They treat me right, I treat them right.  Its not about squeezing the last buck out of a deal.  I've found that attitude creates a lot of good will on both sides that pays dividends in the long run.  Price is only one item to consider.

 

For me, it's the FFL saving me some ammo when it comes in or holding a gun without me paying for it until NICS comes back.  For them, a happy repeat customer, no BS from me and referrals.   

[bhunted 887]

Has anyone noticed the OP has not left any further input? Seemed to be a troll message.

[bhunted 887]

Youre right bhunted. I may have gone a lil overboard....Although im pretty sure i didnt piss in anyone's ear. And if i did i apologize wholeheartedly....but they should have removed their head from the bowl...just sayin.

 

Wasn't directed just at you. It was a general statement.

[Maksim 1,504]

John, enjoy this bit of tangent, as well, we are getting our feelings and frustrations out, and everyone has been respectful is is the ONLY guideline here.

 

You are absolutely right about transfer fees and they do vary.  Until, I can personally do something about this, hint hint, wink wink, it is just part of the equation.

 

It's really weird about gun availability, and the different phillosphies and business models the gun dealers in NJ choose.  There are vendors on this forum who all take a different route, for some, they will only order items for you, and only new, other FFL's, deal a lot in used guns as well, for others, the business is the range.  

 

Much like the shooters on here, and in the state, there are different important factors, I am just glad we have choice.

 

Now, if we are taking out all the extra value you get from the FFL, and we strip out the gas and tolls driving to someone across the state, then yes, as a commodity, I suppose $25 transfer, no more than $50 is ideal. =)

[ColtPistols 0]

I've always been more or less a capitolist so I don't have a problem with dealers charging 70 to 100 bucks for a transfer fee. Or anything they want for that matter. I still find it cheaper in most circumstances to order a handgun from an internet based dealer, pay their transfer and NICS fees and still come out 150 bucks ahead from what they would sell the same Colt for in their store. Availabilty is become more of a problem now so things might change. But because of price I wanted to do multiple purchase exemptions. The last dealer I bought from had some nice Colts in stock so, even though I could get them substantially cheaper online, I'm impatient to wait for stock to return and thought I would support my local guy. Unfortunately he talked me out of it. It's $25 a month storage for each handgun, and according to him his other customers had been waiting over six months for their exemptions all ready. So that comes out to roughly 450 over what I could get them for on the internet, plus 300 or more for storage fees just for the price of supporting the local guy. I opted out and still bought one from him. I'm not complaining but I decided to wait. I realize the waits are no fault of the dealer, but it seems to me that if you can fit roughly 4 or five pistol cases in a cubic foot, stacked 8 feet high, thats 800 bucks a month in storage fees per square foot. I guess people have to charge what they need to to stay in business, but I'm just gonna wait on purchases for a while now.

[remixer 1,645]

All i will say as an firearms retailer. I cannot wait until we are able to approve a firearms purchase in 5 minutes

[Newtonian 453]

There s more then a few FFLs and forum vendors who post their opinions on regular basis as you might have read, but to say that they like this situation just for charging storage fees i i find it very unbelievable.

 

Maybe you need to find yourself a better shop .

 

I'm not saying they like the situation. I'm talking economic incentives.

[Newtonian 453]

Hey, I never said the FFLs liked the situation. What I tried to say was that many/most FFLs do not have the economic incentive to change anything.

 

For example: I picked up 4 guns at my FFL last week. They charged me $240 for the xfers, $30 for storing one gun (I'd lost my permit), and $20 for storing another. My alternative for the Mosin was going through NICS twice.

 

That's $290 for what...about one hour's work, maybe 90 minutes, logging the orders, doing the paperwork. They don't even call when things come in. And I'd asked them about both gun types (Mosin, CZ82), but they said they couldn't get them.

 

That's a lot more than they'd have made selling me a gun, or just about anything else in the store.

 

Loyalty goes both ways. I've been shopping at this place for almost 20 years. Guns, clays, shells, ammo, fishing supplies, accessories, etc. Charging $30 for storing a 2"x6"x10" box, when you know the customer lost his permit, ON TOP of the $60 transfer, and given everything crazy about NJ gun laws, is just as disloyal IMO as running to PA to avoid this insanity.

 

BTW, Stroudsburg or Milford are just 27 and 26 very pleasant miles from where I live.

[Newtonian 453]

Not all FFL's charge a lot of money for their services.

I (for example) only charge $25.00 + NICS but this isn't about me, it's about

people who throw mud because they are unhappy with the system.

 

I would think a customer would want to establish a relationship with his/her dealer

and not base every decision solely on the bottom line cost of a particular firearm.

I have many customers who ask for favors, spl requests, ect. and the regulars get

treated like friends / family - Do you get that when you travel out of state for your gun?

I think not!

See my previous post about loyalty and long-term relationships.

 

Loyalty ends when someone charges you double for a service, plus a storage fee, with no discount for multiple guns.

 

 

The FFL posters in this forum would be the first people to drive their trucks 2 blocks to save three cents on a gallon of gasoline, or to shop around for body shop work.

 

Gimme a break.

[remixer 1,645]

 --

[remixer 1,645]

Loyalty ends when someone charges you double for a service, plus a storage fee, with no discount for multiple guns.

 

I have never charged anyone for storing a gun.. in fact iv been burdened with people buying multiple guns out of state and having me hold them for months and months and i have never asked for a penny, iv even had people offer to add a storage fee which i refused. what im getting so far is 1 of 2 things.

 

1. your current FFL might be expensive for your taste

2. It seems you have a grudge against people charging you for transfers and your FFL is possibly not a fan of you hence the high fee's

 

 

The FFL posters in this forum would be the first people to drive their trucks 2 blocks to save three cents on a gallon of gasoline, or to shop around for body shop work.

 

Gimme a break.

 

Why would you assume all the FFL's who replied to your post are like that.. Seems your painting with a broad brush. 

 

Refer back to #2 .

People get treated how they treat others. If you walk into a store with the notion your going to get screwed it might show and you might be treated that way.

[Damjan 73]

 

There s more then a few FFLs and forum vendors who post their opinions on regular basis as you might have read, but to say that they like this situation just for charging storage fees i i find it very unbelievable.

Maybe you need to find yourself a better shop .

 

I'm not saying they like the situation. I'm talking economic incentives.

 

Thanks for your clarification. As i mentioned i have also shopped in PA recently and convinience was one of the reasons.

Im sure many here will come back with stories about FFLs taking advantage, but also of great service.

 

If they did this to you after 20 yrs, that is not nice. You need to find another shop.

[Newtonian 453]

I have never charged anyone for storing a gun.. in fact iv been burdened with people buying multiple guns out of state and having me hold them for months and months and i have never asked for a penny, iv even had people offer to add a storage fee which i refused. what im getting so far is 1 of 2 things.

 

1. your current FFL might be expensive for your taste

2. It seems you have a grudge against people charging you for transfers and your FFL is possibly not a fan of you hence the high fee's

 

 

 

Why would you assume all the FFL's who replied to your post are like that.. Seems your painting with a broad brush. 

 

Refer back to #2 .

People get treated how they treat others. If you walk into a store with the notion your going to get screwed it might show and you might be treated that way.

 

C'mon, M.A. Doing business is about value, not simply price. You guys are making it sound like I walk into the shop with an attitude, and would throw my mother under a bus to save a nickle. 

 

All I did was relate a situation that actually, and recently occurred to me, and suggest a voluntary, market-based solution.

 

If you can charge $25 for a transfer -- and I'm not saying by any stretch that you make $24.95 on the deal -- then why must my local shop charge $60? Freedom works both ways. He has the right to charge $6,000 if he wants; I have the right to go elsewhere, as ANYONE in this forum would do for any other good or service.

[DSD1026 48]

If you can charge $25 for a transfer -- and I'm not saying by any stretch that you make $24.95 on the deal -- then why must my local shop charge $60? Freedom works both ways. He has the right to charge $6,000 if he wants; I have the right to go elsewhere, as ANYONE in this forum would do for any other good or service.

 

ok, well you just gave credence to what many of us have been saying..  Your issue is not the NJ FFL's "in general" fault, its the fault of your local FFL.  They choose to set their transfer price.  It sounds like you had a number of guns to transfer and had a bit of a problem of your own (lost permit, etc).  Im not saying that what they did is outstanding customer service, but it also sounds (to me, at least) that you knew the cost of it going into the transaction (or should have).  I am not sure they were "hiding" these costs for you.  Will they lose some business because of that kind of fee(s), sure..  Will they still get business?  probably. 

 

Again, as many others have said, I don't really have a problem with you heading to PA to get some stuff..  Many do..  (I probably would too if i lived close enough)..  But I did not like the fact that you were painting all NJ dealers/FFL's with the same brush, when it is clearly not the case.  And in fact, you DID say that NJ dealers "liked" the situation, just not using the same words.  Saying they have incentive to keep it the way it is basically says they like it because they can charge transfer fees and storage fees..  You also said that if they could, they would lobby to remove out of state sales.  It really just sounds like you are railing against all NJ dealers & FFL's because you had a poor experience with one of them, which to be frank, is unfair on your part.  Fact is, they CAN'T change the laws..  They are simply people, just like you and I are.  WE are the ones who have to change it. 

 

Oh, and you didn't suggest a solution.  Going out of state to buy is not a solution to the actual problem.  It is your personal solution for YOUR problem.  The problem is the government, not the FFL's.

[jackandjill 683]

OP started the thread with few assumptions

 

a) that ALL (implied) FFLs charge outrageous price

b) somehow they have clout at NJSP and they are not using

c) The "idea" is to stir market prices based above assumptions with hope of fixing the system

 

Its very clear

 

a) not true

b) not true

c) in our dreams

 

Case closed.

 

What if, the whole idea of all laws, delays in NJ is really to drive FFLs out of business and then bring in additional laws restricting out of state purchases ?

Then we end up with handful of "state approved" FFLs for the name sake and no practical way of exercising 2A.

 

So lets stop with all these assumptions and take up directly with the reps instead of bit*ching about FFLs.

[Newtonian 453]

OP started the thread with few assumptions

 

a) that ALL (implied) FFLs charge outrageous price

b) somehow they have clout at NJSP and they are not using

c) The "idea" is to stir market prices based above assumptions with hope of fixing the system

 

Its very clear

 

a) not true

b) not true

c) in our dreams

 

Case closed.

 

What if, the whole idea of all laws, delays in NJ is really to drive FFLs out of business and then bring in additional laws restricting out of state purchases ?

Then we end up with handful of "state approved" FFLs for the name sake and no practical way of exercising 2A.

 

So lets stop with all these assumptions and take up directly with the reps instead of bit*ching about FFLs.

 

I did not mean this post to be controversial. I did not assume anything about ALL NJ FFLs. I don't understand why some people assume that. I did assume that the the trade group representing FFLs/Gunsmiths/Dealers had more clout than me emailing representatives who don't even represent me (my own are fine on guns). I mean, that's how it works in the real world. 

 

 

All I'm saying here is to fulfill your own enlightened self-interest, to reward dealers who provide good value, and to go elsewhere when they don't. There's nothing sinister or barbaric about that. That's how we buy cars, clothing, everything.

 

BTW, I'm equidistant between Stroud or Milford, PA, and Randolph, which is where I've been going to shoot. Why should someone over-pay for a transfer, and wait 20 days for the privilege of making an extra trip when they can walk out of the store with their purchase?

 

I'm not blaming NJ FFLs. 

 

Yikes.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Because if you keep going elsewhere then when things do return to normal a lot of the stores won't be there. I don't need anything that bad not to support a local ffl somehow

[Newtonian 453]

Because if you keep going elsewhere then when things do return to normal a lot of the stores won't be there. I don't need anything that bad not to support a local ffl somehow

Correct. I will continue to buy everything sports-related from this particular shop. They're the only large outlet in these parts. They will survive.

 

You're only looking at this from one angle. It works both ways, man.

[Maksim 1,504]

How long did the FFL store these guns for you?

Did they tell you how much the transfer fee is ahead of time?

[Newtonian 453]

How long did the FFL store these guns for you?

Did they tell you how much the transfer fee is ahead of time?

I know the fee was lower last time I transferred something to them. I believe it was $35 last autumn. 

 

I also knew about the storage fee. The reason I incurred it is I stupidly threw out a permit with my income tax junk. Ouch.

 

I am not blaming this fine shop in any shape, manner, or form. THEY ARE A GREAT SHOP. There, I said it.

 

Good customer service, good advice.

 

Could they have taken my 18-19 years of business into account, and the fact that they knew I lost my permit, and the problem with two NICSs? Sure. Was I shocked at paying $300 to transfer a 40-year pistol and 45 lbs of cosmoline through them, yes.

 

Did they do anything wrong? NO!!! There, I've said it. Everyone satisfied?

 

However, as a consumer I have a right to purchase a fishing rod or hearing protection for my son at the shop, to buy fishing line or ammo or other accessories there as I see fit, and have long guns FFL'd to Dunkelbergers, which is a nice 40-minute drive down Rte. 94, and located on the main street of one of my favorite local burgs. 

 

Obviously, if I lived 40 miles southeast of where I reside, and a local shop did transfers for $25 (probably what it costs -- business owners will recognize a loss leader here), then I'd be insane to drive to PA.

 

I don't owe anybody a living though. NOBODY. Not welfare recipients, not advertisers on ArmsList, and not anyone who provides a good or service that I perceive to be 2x what it should be.

 

This is one thing I've mentioned, at least three times now, that nobody has addressed. 

 

Does anyone on this forum go out of their way to pay 2x for toilet paper? For steak? A car? Has nobody who's responded ever been in a WalMart? Dick's? Home Depot? You realize you're putting those mom-and-pop stores out of business, don't you (or in some cases, already have)??

 

Has nobody here cringed at seeing a used, beat-up firearm at their local shop for $XXXX, and the same product online, new, with all sorts of goodies, for the same price?

[Maksim 1,504]

See, your posts as they go on, seem more like rants.... people here are just keeping everyone else honest.

 

Your first post is in a tone that every FFL in NJ, it is in their best interests  to have long nics wait.

 

I am wondering still, how long did you hold the guns at the FFL that they charged a storage fee?

 

How far away are you from Hackettstown Guns Ammo or Mastadon?

 

People are just trying to help you....  as far as value...

 

Was this shop also a range?  If so... the value of paying that much would be that you can use your guns while you are waiting for permits, etc.

 

What shop is this?  

 

you can send it to me as a pm if you want.

[bhunted 887]

Heh - heh - heh!

 

See, your posts as they go on, seem more like rants.... people here are just keeping everyone else honest.

 

Your first post is in a tone that every FFL in NJ, it is in their best interests to have long nics wait.

 

I am wondering still, how long did you hold the guns at the FFL that they charged a storage fee?

 

How far away are you from Hackettstown Guns Ammo or Mastadon?

 

People are just trying to help you.... as far as value...

 

Was this shop also a range? If so... the value of paying that much would be that you can use your guns while you are waiting for permits, etc.

 

What shop is this?

 

you can send it to me as a pm if you want.

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Maksim 1,504]

Important: The transfer fees our shops charge are a TREMENDOUS incentive for them to retain the status quo, including the long NICS delay. (My closest shop charges $10/month to store guns, which is very easy to reach considering a 20-day NICS and a couple of weekend commitments).

 

I'll bet if NJ gun-buyers decided to purchase all their long guns across the Delaware, dealers would eventually get the message, and they might effect some legislative changes.

 

The cloud in this silver lining is that they'd lobby the legislature to ban out of state sales entirely.

 

 

Hey, I never said the FFLs liked the situation. What I tried to say was that many/most FFLs do not have the economic incentive to change anything.

 

For example: I picked up 4 guns at my FFL last week. They charged me $240 for the xfers, $30 for storing one gun (I'd lost my permit), and $20 for storing another. My alternative for the Mosin was going through NICS twice.

 

That's $290 for what...about one hour's work, maybe 90 minutes, logging the orders, doing the paperwork. They don't even call when things come in. And I'd asked them about both gun types (Mosin, CZ82), but they said they couldn't get them.

 

That's a lot more than they'd have made selling me a gun, or just about anything else in the store.

 

Loyalty goes both ways. I've been shopping at this place for almost 20 years. Guns, clays, shells, ammo, fishing supplies, accessories, etc. Charging $30 for storing a 2"x6"x10" box, when you know the customer lost his permit, ON TOP of the $60 transfer, and given everything crazy about NJ gun laws, is just as disloyal IMO as running to PA to avoid this insanity.

 

BTW, Stroudsburg or Milford are just 27 and 26 very pleasant miles from where I live.

 

 

See my previous post about loyalty and long-term relationships.

 

Loyalty ends when someone charges you double for a service, plus a storage fee, with no discount for multiple guns.

 

 

The FFL posters in this forum would be the first people to drive their trucks 2 blocks to save three cents on a gallon of gasoline, or to shop around for body shop work.

 

Gimme a break.

 

 

C'mon, M.A. Doing business is about value, not simply price. You guys are making it sound like I walk into the shop with an attitude, and would throw my mother under a bus to save a nickle. 

 

All I did was relate a situation that actually, and recently occurred to me, and suggest a voluntary, market-based solution.

 

If you can charge $25 for a transfer -- and I'm not saying by any stretch that you make $24.95 on the deal -- then why must my local shop charge $60? Freedom works both ways. He has the right to charge $6,000 if he wants; I have the right to go elsewhere, as ANYONE in this forum would do for any other good or service.

 

 

The posts above, just highlighted/bolded.  Read them, then take a step back and see why people are having a hard time with this.

 

You had a bad experience with one stop, and then try to implement a solution because of your faulty assumption that every FFL in the state, has incentive to have long delays, because they ALL want to charge you storage fees.  You then and go insult the same FFL's on the forum by calling them cheap.

 

See the issue?

 

The issue is you have ONE bad experience, with ONE FFL, and that was partly to blame on yourself because you lost a permit, thus encurring extra storage charges, and not knowing the transfer fee was $60.  is it $60 + nics?

 

FFL's have to hold your guns while you wait for permits.  They would LOVE to get your guns out of the safe, because that means they have less inventory they can hold.  As such, your shop obviously is not focused on transfers, but offers it for those who really need it and charges for it.  Some at home FFL's have far lower costs, and payroll to cover over big box stores.

 

As far as driving for gas.... yes, I am a jew and I know the gas stations that have the lowest prices, but I also waste money on Premium for my car.  But then.... there are times where I do not know where I am and I feel like an idiot for paying $4 a gallon for gas, because I do not know if there are any other gas stations around.

 

We all pay a premium for something.

 

Why do people pay for $12 for a beer at a bar, when you can buy it for $2 at a store and drink at home?

 

We all have our perceived value.  For transfers, you should of ask ahead or known or ask for a discount for the transfer fee.  Or.... use the Gun Price Request feature right on this forum, or put up a WTB listing.

 

There are a ton of ways to not overpay... this is what this forum is about, and what people are trying to get across.  And it all started with you putting all the FFL's in one basket.

 

The FFL's on this forum, ARE part of the community, they answer questions, we shoot with them, they hang out in Chat.  They will go out on a limb for you.  They are truly awesome people, and why many FFL's have built their business based on the forum alone.

[bhunted 887]

The main problem I gathered from all this is. In one sentence you are pist at your ffl... In another, you'll still continue to do biz with him. So what was the point of all this? Your ideas were off... By a long shot and you contradicted yourself. (Shrug)

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Newtonian 453]

I have obviously hit a raw nerve here. I have to go back and see what I wrote that could have engendered so much animosity. I thought, and still think, that what I wrote was reasonable. Many of you object nevertheless. 

 

I said that FFLs have no incentive to change the current system. I did not say they were all evil. This is how the human race operates. 

 

Somebody makes $300 for paying someone $20/hr to work 1.5 or two hours. A loyal, long-standing customer. 

 

Instead of rehashing what you think I wrote about what you think you wrote about what I think I wrote, can you please address specific points? 

For example:

 

** If an FFL makes $300 from processing some transfers and charging for storage, is it out of line for me to complain? Or is this subject verboten? You guys like the Second Amendment alright. How about the First f*****g Amendment? I know, in forums like these, that nobody ever comes to anyone else's defense, but isn't anybody else "pist" about this subject? 

 

** Do we have an obligation to support vendors in every way, dealers who expect solidarity, loyalty, etc., when they exploit geography and proximity? Is there no way to provide some sort of feedback, through voluntary exchange, that does not define me as the reincarnation of Michael Bloomberg? 

 

** Nobody answered my question about toilet paper, steak, etc. DOES ANYONE READING THIS PURPOSELY PAY 2X FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN GUNS AND AMMO?? And if you do, WHY???

 

** I understand that FFLs have to make a living, that the paperwork is onerous, that a $20-30-35 transfer fee is close to unprofitable. But: Is the issue of loyalty, when it comes to prices for well-defined services, a one way street? What if they charged $100? $150? $200? When would rank-and-file posters begin to complain? 

 

I would love to hear from people who are not FFLs, who understand WTF I'm trying to say here. And if anybody has anything to say in defense of these arguments, please stop being a pussy and write what's on your mind. If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it.

[Newtonian 453]

The main problem I gathered from all this is. In one sentence you are pist at your ffl... In another, you'll still continue to do biz with him. So what was the point of all this? Your ideas were off... By a long shot and you contradicted yourself. (Shrug) Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD Typos courtesy Apple...

I am "pist" at only one aspect of their business. I've said already that they are a GREAT shop. I would have to drive 45 minutes to do better. I am not going to drive that distance for a box of shotgun shells. Maybe that is the problem.