nj ccw question

[brocglock23 4]

Well then perhaps I am misunderstanding out approach. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this is about finding a new, clever wording to describe "justifiable need.". I believe that just about every approach has been tried and rejected in the past.

 

The way I'm reading this, our strategy is to request (or demand) en masse that we be allowed to exercise our Constitutionally protected right to self defense. I would be shocked if they turned around and said, "Sure, OK, no problem." More likely, we will all be rejected, but then we will have the numbers and the ammunition to show that our rights are being categorically denied. They will no longer be able to stand behind the statistical sham that 98% of applicants are receiving their permits.

I'm exactly thinking the same thing. That is why I'm proposing the members who live in the same town get together and do it at the same time so it's a flood of applicants in the month of January. We don't need any fancy statement. Just an influx of applications being denied.

 

droid maxx is way better than the note 2

 

 

[RS1200XL 4]

Can towns reject accepting the application?  I recall hearing about an individual requesting info from his town; to which he was told "You won't get it, don't waste your time or ours."  If towns work as a blockade to CCW applications, we will still be in the same boat.

 

If this has been discussed in other threads, I applogize but I have never looked into getting an NJ CCW for several reasons, one being the nearly 100% guarantee I won't get it.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Can towns reject accepting the application?  I recall hearing about an individual requesting info from his town; to which he was told "You won't get it, don't waste your time or ours."  If towns work as a blockade to CCW applications, we will still be in the same boat.

 

If this has been discussed in other threads, I applogize but I have never looked into getting an NJ CCW for several reasons, one being the nearly 100% guarantee I won't get it.

 

IF that happened it has to be a violation of something....in addition to common sense.  That's the same as someone being told, "You have the right to vote but your candidate has no chance of winning so we won't take your voting ballot because it would be waste of our time to count it  How about you just stay home on election day?." 

 

If that were to happen I would think one may want to take out their phone/camera, notify them that they are being recorded and politely tell them again that you would like to submit your application. 

[ogfarmer 138]

this is all part of the NJ2AS CCW application collection project. NJ2AS is actively working on this again and I suggest you folks join for $35 and get involved, more #'s the better. Joining forces is what brings strength.  If your on FB at least join the group and get involved if your not ready to join as a member. This is a active discussion and project.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Just be aware that you will have to check that you were denied a permit to carry when you submit your next application for a permit to purchase. No big deal for most, but you will have to explain it every time.

besides this, is/are there any serious negative repercussions? as in, could they cause the revocation of a utah non-resident? or cause the denial of the florida ccw?

[Luso 6]

besides this, is/are there any serious negative repercussions? as in, could they cause the revocation of a utah non-resident? or cause the denial of the florida ccw?

 

yes, the serious negative repercussion is continuing to live without ccw rights, which is what you are suffering through right now already. You have literally nothing to lose, because right now you have nothing

 

Those other states would just see your explanation saying "I was rejected purely because my state judge determined I did not have a justifiable need to own a gun, and not due to any criminal record whatsoever" florida and Utah are not fascist bungholes like NJ

 

this is all part of the NJ2AS CCW application collection project. NJ2AS is actively working on this again and I suggest you folks join for $35 and get involved, more #'s the better. Joining forces is what brings strength. If your on FB at least join the group and get involved if your not ready to join as a member. This is a active discussion and project.

I would recommend everyone, not just a few people , contact them and every NJ group saying you support doing this application dump. They need to hear from their members what we would like to see transpire. Not everyone thinks this this is a good idea. Be a strong advocate for the cause with the reasoning used throughout this thread

 

Can towns reject accepting the application? I recall hearing about an individual requesting info from his town; to which he was told "You won't get it, don't waste your time or ours." If towns work as a blockade to CCW applications, we will still be in the same boat.

 

If this has been discussed in other threads, I applogize but I have never looked into getting an NJ CCW for several reasons, one being the nearly 100% guarantee I won't get it.

They can't deny you you're right to apply. It ceases to be an application if they do so. At that point you record the bureaucrat refusing to process your application and call the state police to tell them the name of the jerk refusing to take your paperwork along with the name of the chief of police from that department. I'm not spending another year waiting for more talk and people without a sack. It's time to demand what we want instead of cowering in fear. Them denying you dropping off the application is what you WANT to happen. That just proves how fascist they really are- get it on tape.. It will only help our argument

 

 

 

We all need to start getting pissed and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. This is a BS law and it's time to ante up and do something about it

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Deleted due to ineptitude with the edit feature.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I have been giving this a lot of thought. It's the closest thing to civil disobedience that we can do to call attention to an unjust law, without actually breaking the law.

 

New Year's Day falls on a Wednesday. We should try to coordinate getting our applications in within the first week afterward. I don't think we should do it quietly. Do we have any friends in the press who would give it favorable coverage? Maybe we should contact Fox News after we have a solid plan in place. Perhaps we could call Rachel Maddow. Ha,ha, just kidding!

 

It's not going to have much impact if we have a few dozen people do it. We are going to need hundreds, if not thousands. Perhaps we could post notices at local gun shops and ranges.

 

I really think it would be helpful if we could get NJ2AS on board with this.

[ogfarmer 138]

NJ2AS is already doing something, its up to you to get in on it with them. We are discussing this at meetings, and currently on their FB page. There is a lot to go into this coordination.

[maintenanceguy 510]

This will never happen in NJ unless it's well organized, coordinated with the current cases pending before the courts, and done with some sort of end game plan.  Just applying gets us nothing.  Visit the NJ2AS facebook page and see what's happening there.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

This will never happen in NJ unless it's well organized, coordinated with the current cases pending before the courts, and done with some sort of end game plan.  Just applying gets us nothing.  Visit the NJ2AS facebook page and see what's happening there.

 

Exactly!  I'm a member of NJ2AS (as everyone on here should be), but I'm not on Facebook.  Any way to get in on that discussion?

[maintenanceguy 510]

No, NJ2AS is a very busy group on facebook.  I wasn't a facebook user either and joined for just that group.  I'm not a facebook guy. I have one facebook friend and belong to one group.  I won't even accept my wife's friend requests.   It's worth creating a facebook profile to get involved.

[Luso 6]

This will never happen in NJ unless it's well organized, coordinated with the current cases pending before the courts, and done with some sort of end game plan. Just applying gets us nothing. Visit the NJ2AS facebook page and see what's happening there.

Just applying certainly gets you something, in fact it gets you everything. What we need are thousands of rejections, nothing else.

 

Where ni2as and other groups come in is convincing their members who are willing to to do it. But the rejections are what we need and make a huge difference in skewing the acceptance rate and changing the ability for anyone, from the pantano case lawyers to nj2as' spokespeople, to actually be able to agitate for change

 

If the numbers stay the same, interests groups on their own will be able to do nothing

[maintenanceguy 510]

And then what.  A thousand denials.  What do we do with them?

 

I'm not suggesting that applying in large numbers is a bad idea.  I just want to have a plan.

[BD104X 1]

Requirement #6 is written proof of qualification from certified firearms instructor. Any suggestions on where to go for this?

[BD104X 1]

NJ2AS is already doing something, its up to you to get in on it with them. We are discussing this at meetings, and currently on their FB page. There is a lot to go into this coordination.

What's with the secrecy? Why can't the people who are familiar with the plan discuss it on here?

[ryan_j 0]

And then what.  A thousand denials.  What do we do with them?

 

I'm not suggesting that applying in large numbers is a bad idea.  I just want to have a plan.

 

It puts to bed the lie from the AG that they approve 94% of permits. 

[ryan_j 0]

Requirement #6 is written proof of qualification from certified firearms instructor. Any suggestions on where to go for this?

 

NRA basic plus a range qual. Gun For Hire is one of the places that does this. 

[ryan_j 0]

Can towns reject accepting the application?  I recall hearing about an individual requesting info from his town; to which he was told "You won't get it, don't waste your time or ours."  If towns work as a blockade to CCW applications, we will still be in the same boat.

 

If this has been discussed in other threads, I applogize but I have never looked into getting an NJ CCW for several reasons, one being the nearly 100% guarantee I won't get it.

 

They do that all the time. Some of them do their best to discourage you. 

 

Didn't someone here file an app only to have it returned months later, check uncashed saying it wouldn't be approved don't bother?

[njpilot 671]

Exactly!  I'm a member of NJ2AS (as everyone on here should be), but I'm not on Facebook.  Any way to get in on that discussion?

Same here.

 

No, NJ2AS is a very busy group on facebook.  I wasn't a facebook user either and joined for just that group.  I'm not a facebook guy. I have one facebook friend and belong to one group.  I won't even accept my wife's friend requests.   It's worth creating a facebook profile to get involved.

Sorry, but it's pretty stupid that I have to "create a facebook profile" in order to receive information from an organization that I pay annual dues to as well as donate additional funds during the year.

 

I don't want to "create a facebook profile". I receive emails from NJ2AS and we have a subsection here on the forum.

 

If anything is so "top secret", that it can't be shared here, then ask for the NJ2AS subsection to become a members only, password protected area and let the information and discussions be posted there.

[ogfarmer 138]

nothings top secret. Its just a up to the minute discussion.

[maintenanceguy 510]

No secrets - just hundreds of posts a day.  Some topics - like ccw get 200 in a day.   There's no way to share that volume of information in a post here.  And don't blame NJ2AS for having a busy facebook page.  Their other option is to shut the page down and not let anyone participate.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Not blaming them for having a FB page, but many of us who are not involved with FB would like to know how things are going.  

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'm not a facebook guy either.  But it takes 5 minutes to sign up and get involved.  Worth the work in my humble opinion.

[Luso 6]

And then what.  A thousand denials.  What do we do with them?

 

I'm not suggesting that applying in large numbers is a bad idea.  I just want to have a plan.

Please look back through the thread, I and others have given many ideas for agitation after the rejections. 

 

There are many ways to get to this goal. Just having the denials is an absolutely necessary first step, and eliminates an argument the statists can now use to their favor. 

 

The fact is we aren't even asking for permission. They have to say no, before we can say "why not?" If you just sit here stagnant with no one applying, we advance nothing. 

 

Anyone who thinks there is something to wait for has a screw loose, honestly. I hate to be that rude but it's true. There is absolutely no reason to wait for anything unless your goal is to keep NJ a carry free state. in that case, by all means, never apply. that's what they want. It's like saying you want to lose 10 pounds, but you need to wait before you decide if you should start running on the treadmill. what are we waiting for?

 

denying 50,000 people their carry application or driving the acceptance rate to 0.05% of applicants is a huge advantage. You will now have civil rights and second amendment groups on your side. You can agitate on a social level with race, class, sex. this has been described many times earlier in this thread. read through

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

i was out of the area for a few days, to arguably the only worse commie place i could find, commieforniastan. im working on getting my ducks in a row for this, didnt get it done before i left. i seem to have stirred up something here

 

as far as the justifiable need obviously we have to show need, obviously "because the constitution says so", or "dont be tyrants and gimme" are not valid examples of that. does anyone have a better way with words then i do to satisfy the requirement and give us the best chance possible here

[Luso 6]

i was out of the area for a few days, to arguably the only worse commie place i could find, commieforniastan. im working on getting my ducks in a row for this, didnt get it done before i left. i seem to have stirred up something here

 

as far as the justifiable need obviously we have to show need, obviously "because the constitution says so", or "dont be tyrants and gimme" are not valid examples of that. does anyone have a better way with words then i do to satisfy the requirement and give us the best chance possible here

The reason is frankly tangential to just applying. The reason won't matter, because we know the answer will be no regardless .

 

If you want my serious answer, I would say "

 

due to high violent crime rates in the cities I frequent like Paterson and Newark , the recent scare at the garden state plaza, and my general desire to have the ability to sovereignly protect myself and my loved ones against unwanted violent force"

 

But that flowery rhetoric won't matter, they will reject. We just need that to happen to 5000 other people

 

I think this is part of the problem, it's being so over thought. You can't complain until they say no . Do whatever you can to get them to say no to as many people as possible, and THEN is the time for cerebral debate on the best course of agitation. There are many options

 

Here's another idea - for those concerned about this tarnishing their ability to get more purchase permits- how about meeting with your chief briefly beforehand, and bluntly telling him what You are doing??

 

" chief x, I just wanted to let you know I'm going to submit my application for concealed carry, knowing full well the political climate in the courts will almost certainly have me rejected. My goal is just to have the state tell me definitively that I can not exercise this privilege. Knowing I have no criminal record and have been honored with permits in the past , would you hold it against me when I apply for purchase permits in the future after I will be forced to disclose that I was denied a carry permit?"

 

Simple! Record the damn conversation while you're at it. No decent human being , never mind he's a statist, would possibly hold it against you. If they refuse to process the application, we collect a list of all the chiefs refusing your application and make a stink about that! All of these things people bringing up as roadblocks , are actually POSITIVE consequences we can spin to our advantage. The more they victimize us, and act like tyrants openly, the worse they look. It's not in their interest to do that

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I believe Luso has this exactly right.  We are not going to think up some clever new way of explaining justifiable need that will get us all approved.  The point is to get thousands of denials so we can remove New Jersey's disguise as a "may issue" state, and fully expose them as the "will not issue" state that they are.  

 

I believe it's high time we go on the offensive to try to take back some our rights which have long been denied.  I think NJ2AS and ANJPRC are great, but all of their efforts have been to cut our losses from various legislative pushes, while restrictions on us gradually get tighter and tighter.  Don't misunderstand me, I'm happy that of the 84 or so bills introduced in our legislature this year, only a few got passed.  But that's still a few more than what we had.  When was the last time we pushed to get something back?

 

With the recent rash of mass shootings, and the expansion of CCW laws in more that 80% of the other states in our nation, there is no better time than now to rally for for this.  As has been noted, we really have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

[Se9 0]

I'm in think we need to go for coffee some where and talk about this

[Luso 6]

I have nothing bad to say about NJ's groups. But something old glock guy said couldn't be more truthful

 

We sit here pounding our chests that x amount of laws DIDNT get passed because of our efforts, but 2 or 3 did. That means incrementally, we have LESS freedom than we did before

 

Playing defense all the time only results in further encroachment on your liberty. It's a losing proposition.

 

Do you want incrementally worse gun laws slowly, or do you want to sack up and figuratively punch these scumbags in power back in the teeth? You have to go on offense, and make them take a position that is uncomfortable.

 

Every second we are on offense, they are NOT on offense writing 17 more bills.

 

What do you prefer? Look at what the past has gotten us to.

 

Chicago, our president's home town, now has to reckon with concealed carry. Why the blank can't it happen here?

 

Everyone is bogged down in process, ethics, morals, debate, opinions..it's a waste of time. Make them say no - make them make a chess move..then we can have this discussion in what to do next. Everyone needs to make it clear to whatever group you belong to that this is an operation you want to see executed ASAP. Not next year, not next summer, NOW

 

This isn't about building inroads with politicians, scoring political points, metaphorical victories, etc. it's about advancing our liberties, and in this game you're either doing that or you're not.

 

You can all pat your backs about the last year since newtown, but the fact of the matter is you are now strangled by more laws than you were before. Congratulations, we lost

 

It's time for some damn offense. Stop listening to lawyers and other people who think they know what's best in this fight. Read these facts and decide for yourself: are we advancing the agenda? Or are we just incrementally losing rights? You will realize its only the latter and NONE of the former. Time for new tactics, and anyone who is told their group doesn't want to participate should openly be willing to tell them that your donation money is going elsewhere then.

 

We are no longer here to defend the status quo. It's time to WIN. I would rather take up a fight and lose, occupying the legislators time who therefore can't write new bills because THEY are on defense, than sit here playing nice and watching more bills get through the legislature.