Manufacturing of 80% in NJ or bringing 80% from out of state other rifles also

[SocietyHill 0]

Hello everyone...  New to these forums here but in no way am I new to the hobby.

I just wanted to post my findings.

I called up the NJ State Police Firearms unit to ask some questions regarding kits etc...

When I called I fully expected to have to go turn in my Rifle at the very least and thought they were going to ask me to turn myself in to the state police.  

 

 

If a person brings a rifle from another state are they required to have a Firearms ID.

NO

If a person brings a rifle from another state are they required to register the rifle.

No

IF a person takes said rifle to a shooting range are they required to have a Firearms ID.

No

Do I have to have a Firearms ID to transport said rifle to and from a Range ?

No.  Be sure you transport according to the law.

 

At this point I then asked about my 80% milled receiver...  I explained that I moved to NJ from NY back in 2005 and at the time it was legal to make your own Lower Receiver.  I explained that I went through the entire legal process even going as far as to register the rifle as I had serialized it for Theft purposes.  While in NY when I originally tried to register it I was asked 2 questions.  Are you planning on selling it and Are you planning on transferring or willing it out.  Both NO at which point I asked "well then why are you registering it you are not required to)  I then explained that I brought my 80% with me to NJ and that I wanted to register it legally in the state.  This time I got the same answer from NJ that I got from NY.  I was told I could voluntarily register it but was not required to do so and they didn't see any reason for me to.

 

I then asked how I could make it legal to have it and I was told that as it is as long as it follows the no assault rifle rule and conformed to all the NJ ban laws I was in confines of LAW.  But if I wanted to give it a try I could try to register it with the ATF but was told again it isnt required.

 

Here was my questioning after I explained my scenario.

 

80% Kits

Can I legally Posses 80% lower in NJ.

Yes

Can I legally Posses 80% lower in NJ without a Firearms ID

Yes

Do I need my Firearms ID to  transport my 80% MILLED / COMPLETED lower to and from a range.

No

Do I need a Firearms ID to posses my 80% MILLED / COMPLETED receiver or transport to a range and back.

No

Do I need a Firearms ID to or MILL / COMPLETE

No (But it is a very thin line...  It is considered a grey area,  and NJ has NEVER prosecuted anyone for it.  Manufacturer is a term more used Commercially and for sale of said kits and is even considered to be a really grey area among prosecutors as well.)

 

Do I have to have a firearms ID to touch a gun or Join a range in NJ

NO. A Firearms ID is for purchase.  Its a myth that you have to have a FID to hold a gun or shoot one and it is in no way shape or form a law that you cannot shoot at a range without FID.  Ranges LIE to you and do it for liability but I promise you there is no Law regarding such nonsense.

 

Here is the number I called ... I originally called Troop A and got a lot of my questions answered by the girl who answered but hten we started talking manufacturing and building,  and to my surprise its not all that un-common,  but she had to refer me to the firarms unit. Here is the number.

NJSP Firearms Division

609-882-2000

 

I used to work for a Law Enforcement Supply Company here in NJ.  Ive never had my FID nor was I required to,  all I needed was to be Pink Carded... Thats it... So there is a lot of misconception about the laws in NJ.  I actually got so sick of reading all the mis information on all the different forums so I decided to call NJSP and a lawyer and get real answers instead of the bull$hit answers I was seeing from all these street law lawyers.  And I especially got tired of peoples "Interpretational law" 

 

So the bottom line is this.  You can legally without a Firearms ID bring your 80% milled receiver into the state with no issue and can posses it and transport it to and from a range or FFL dealer etc.  

You can purchase 80% Lower receivers and Upper kits in NJ without a Firearms ID.  Milling is grey but has never been prosecuted.  You do not have to register it.  You are not required to Serialize it nor do you even have to report it.

 

In my own opinion,  if you get pulled over with it,  as long as you are not an a$$hole to the officer and explain the situation I believe you will be OK.  And if you believe in your heart your about to get screwed ask the officer to call the NJSP Firearms division out of courtesy and respect and give them the number.  But it is all at the discretion of the officer and I truely believe if you are following the transport laws and are not breaking any other laws you would be fine.  In fact I believe this enough that I take mine to the range all the time.  Unfortunately all the ranges down this way want a Firearms ID for you to join but you can go as a guest so a friend and I split the cost of the membership and I go as his guest.

 

Why dont you have your Firearms ID SocietyHill?

Good question.. As I said I worked for a Lawe Enforcement Supply Company here in NJ and was going to get it but was told it wasnt really necessary at the time as I could be Pink Carded.  And as far as my FID for owning guns I wasnt required to but people insisted I was breaking the law so I was a little paranoid but had contacted state police back in 2006 and got clarification.

I am applying for my FID but have never had any real reason to have to have it.  I purchase all my Ammo online or from PA. 

 

And for everyone out there suggesting Im skirting the law... In no way was I or am I trying to get around laws or push grey areas... I have been around Firearms my whole life. My Grandfather ,  Father and Brother are all Law Enforcement so I respect the Laws. Firearms in our houses are not weopons they are tools, like a hammer and every tool has a purpose in my opinion.  And to further that we are a family of marksmen,  its what we do,  so I definately would never break the laws and ruin any chance I have at owning guns ever again.

I will also post copies of the laws I looked up as it went much further than the NJSP firearms laws.  One law led me to another to another to another lol.

And as a safeguard I have printed the laws out directly from the state police, NJSA and penal codes and I carry them in my Rifle Case with the AR.  

Thanks for reading guys and good luck,  I browse the forums but have never posted before so its kinda cool to actually post =D

I am not an attorney nor am I giving any legal advice but I hope this helps a few people.

Be safe and Many Blessings my friends.

SocietyHill 

[Shane45 807]

But you do understand you cant finish it in NJ right? An 80% reciever is no different than a 60, 40 20 10 or plain block of aluminum. BUT in NJ you can not take it past 80% unless you are a type 7 FFL.

 

Why would you take an 80% reciever to the range?

[HuntingPaper 62]

Why would you take an 80% reciever to the range?

To use it as a paperweight and keep your spare targets from flying off the bench. Your welcome...

[PK90 3,570]

[SocietyHill 0]

Wrong and Wrong Its legal for both.

And yes you can absolutely finish it.

 

Even the state police laughed at some of the stuff I told them people posted.

And you can most certainly finish it,  as I said the word Manufacturer is a grey term in teh law and is applied commercially. 

 

Actually i said 80% lower Milled / Completed which I realize is 100% complete at that point but since it pertained I placed it in the post.

 

My Bottom line is this ... WHO AM I GONNA TRUST WHEN IT COMES TO LAW... A BUNCH OF PEOPLE ON TEH INTERNET WHO INTERPRET THINGS TO FIT THEIR AGENDA OR THE STATE POLICE FIREARMS DIVISION.  

Its local law enforcement that worries me.

I have a lot of respect for State Police btw always have and this proves why.  I got a solid concise and clear answer. And as I stated previously I was prepared to turn my guns and myself in.  

 

And quite honestly,  I would never have called them at all if not for the fact of the mis information I was reading all over and it actually had me paranoid...  

 

Now a blank receiver milled with no numbers on it,  I wouldn't test that out ,... At the very least have it etched with serial number of your choosing. 

I am in the process of registering mine through the ATF as we speak.  So far its been pretty easy. and doesn't seem like it will be all that hard period.

 

Ive actually shown this same reciever to a few state Police and ATF agents when I worked for the Law Enforcement Supply Store... Was never a problem.

[joshroz2 4]

It clearly says it's completed.

 

 

Societyhill,

Can you make it more clear if you own rifles besides the completed 80%? Do you own any pistols? Did you purchase them out of state and what was your state of residence when you purchased them? You make it sound like the pink card allows you to purchase without an FID I didn't think that was the case.

[PK90 3,570]

You definitely should not take advice from the NJSP. They are the ones who will arrest you for any violation of the law. If you wish to do that, I suggest that you get it in writing. Good luck with that. You would be best served asking the NJ Attorney General's Office, in writing, if you are allowed to complete an 80% receiver into a 100% firearm without a Manufacturing License, which is contrary to what the law says.

[remixer 1,645]

If i took an 80% lower and smashed someone in the head would i be charged with a firearms crime?

[SocietyHill 0]

It clearly says it's completed.

 

 

Societyhill,

Can you make it more clear if you own rifles besides the completed 80%? Do you own any pistols? Did you purchase them out of state and what was your state of residence when you purchased them? You make it sound like the pink card allows you to purchase without an FID I didn't think that was the case.

 

I currently own 4 rifles in total.  2 of them were from 80% Lowers.  

I don't own any pistols.  

 

My 308 and 300 Win Mag I bought out of state in NY back in 2004 in NY at that time you could do Face to Face with no paperwork, so I bought my 308 from a guy I knew and I bought the Savage 300 win mag from a Gun Shop and had to go through the 3 day wait and background check.  

 

The other 2 are from 80% lowers that I milled,  I lived in NY when I did one and in NJ when I did the 2nd but Ive never actually mated an upper to the 2nd one I made.  The press surged while I was milling a hole for the selector pin and on top of that It was a project I was working on and screwed up by milling it before I sent it out to be etched because if I were to send it out to be etched I would need to find someone who etches that has an FFL and then I would need to have it shipped back to an FFL dealer and I would in turn have to have my FID to get it back.. Kinda stupid in my opinion.  After trying to find a way to fix the selector hole and realizing it wasn't worth the risk of it malfunctioning I decided to cut up the receiver and start over.

So when I do my 3rd I'm going to have it etched before I  I Mill it then Im gonna Anodize and Dye it myself as I did with the first 2.  Im having the 2nd amendment etched into the mag well on both sides and then praying hands with a cross and rosary.  

 

If you'd like the info on where I got my lowers and who does my etch work PM me I don't wanna post out in the open as I know there are kids that read these forums to so Id like to try and make it harder for kids for obvious reasons.

[djg0770 481]

Until it's in writing, from the NJSP, and the AG, I don't believe a word.  It's not that I doubt OP, it's that I doubt NJSP.

 

Hell, ATF made a freaking shoelace ILLEGAL at one point.

[SocietyHill 0]

You definitely should not take advice from the NJSP. They are the ones who will arrest you for any violation of the law. If you wish to do that, I suggest that you get it in writing. Good luck with that. You would be best served asking the NJ Attorney General's Office, in writing, if you are allowed to complete an 80% receiver into a 100% firearm without a Manufacturing License, which is contrary to what the law says.

I did in fact call an attorney and was told the same information aside from the Manufacturing issue.  The attorney said it was a grey area as well.  He stated there is no case recorded in NJ where anyone has ever been tried and convicted of this to his knowledge.  He also told me that it could in fact be used loosely if they really wanted to try and convict someone for this.  But they would have to prove you were trying to sell it or mass produce it and that it was not for personal use.  They would also have to prove you were going to commit a hanus act or crime with it.  

And they would also need to prove that you whole heartedly knew you were breaking a law or trying to avoid laws by doing it,  so just like the grey area works for the state it can work for you too ....  That is the only protion of all of this that makes it grey is that one word in the Firearms Laws that defines Manufacturers

[SocietyHill 0]

Until it's in writing, from the NJSP, and the AG, I don't believe a word.  It's not that I doubt OP, it's that I doubt NJSP.

 

Hell, ATF made a freaking shoelace ILLEGAL at one point.

lol shoelaces ...

Agree totally brother.  And I am actually going to call my contact from the NJSP Fire Arms unit and see if I can in fact get it in writing .. He did tell me if I ever had any issues or had any more questions to call him or have the officer call him and he gave me his number and direct extension.  We had only talked for the first time yesterday and we spoke for about an hour on the phone.  But I do believe he was telling me 100% accurate information because he could recite firearms laws to me almost verbatim.  

But I think I'm gonna take the advice of a couple posts including yours and try and get it in writing.  Im just not sure how to go about it ... Should I write a letter to them asking questions and have them answered on NJSP letterhead  with a signature or contact the Attorney General or what ?  

[WP22 1,558]

I did in fact call an attorney and was told the same information aside from the Manufacturing issue.  The attorney said it was a grey area as well.  He stated there is no case recorded in NJ where anyone has ever been tried and convicted of this to his knowledge.  He also told me that it could in fact be used loosely if they really wanted to try and convict someone for this.  But they would have to prove you were trying to sell it or mass produce it and that it was not for personal use.  They would also have to prove you were going to commit a hanus act or crime with it.  

And they would also need to prove that you whole heartedly knew you were breaking a law or trying to avoid laws by doing it,  so just like the grey area works for the state it can work for you too ....  That is the only protion of all of this that makes it grey is that one word in the Firearms Laws that defines Manufacturers

You definitely should not take advice from the NJSP. They are the ones who will arrest you for any violation of the law. If you wish to do that, I suggest that you get it in writing. Good luck with that. You would be best served asking the NJ Attorney General's Office, in writing, if you are allowed to complete an 80% receiver into a 100% firearm without a Manufacturing License, which is contrary to what the law says.

 

Not the same thing.

[SocietyHill 0]

I can say this... My NY 80% / Completed / Milled reciever is 100% legal here in NJ as I brought it when I moved.

[SocietyHill 0]

Also regarding the Pink Card... It did not allow me to Purcahse Firearms but I was allowed to conduct business,  receive in firearms, check serials, show guns etc... The owner of the place was adamant on the fact that I couldn't work there unless I was Pink Carded.  But if am not mistaken and please dont quote me here as this is from memory,  the Pink Card application is pretty much the same questions that are on the FID and Fed BG checks... Again please dont anyone flame me on that as im conceding that im not 100% sure =D

[Shane45 807]

You can say it all you want, it dont make it so.

 

So let me track a few of the gems you have offered up.

 

Ignorance of the law is a legally defencible position.

If you ship a firearm to an ffl for work, it has to ship back to an ffl.

The State Police can offer legal advice.

I find all 3 to be wrong IMO.

 

To much to cover

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ag2.html

 

"so just like the grey area works for the state it can work for you too .... "

Lets assume your right for a second. Do you really think in this state any grey area court decision is going to go your way in NJ? But in my opinion, I dont see it as grey area as you make it out to be. The wording on manufacturing is pretty clear in the statute.

 

2C:39-1

 

j."Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

[PK90 3,570]

Also regarding the Pink Card... It did not allow me to Purcahse Firearms but I was allowed to conduct business,  receive in firearms, check serials, show guns etc... The owner of the place was adamant on the fact that I couldn't work there unless I was Pink Carded.  But if am not mistaken and please dont quote me here as this is from memory,  the Pink Card application is pretty much the same questions that are on the FID and Fed BG checks... Again please dont anyone flame me on that as im conceding that im not 100% sure =D

 

You are correct on the pink card issue, owning completed 80% receivers, possessing completed 80% receivers, and transporting completed 80% receivers to the range, all without a FPID. However, IMO, you may not complete the 80% receiver while in NJ. Why not just take it to PA and finish it there? Also, you would be wise to get a FPID so that you may purchase handgun ammo and be able to transport a long gun to somewhere other than an FFL or range.

[SocietyHill 0]

You can say it all you want, it dont make it so.

 

So let me track a few of the gems you have offered up.

 

Ignorance of the law is a legally defencible position.

If you ship a firearm to an ffl for work, it has to ship back to an ffl.

The State Police can offer legal advice.

I find all 3 to be wrong IMO.

 

"so just like the grey area works for the state it can work for you too .... "

Lets assume your right for a second. Do you really think in this state any grey area court decision is going to go your way in NJ? But in my opinion, I dont see it as grey area as you make it out to be. The wording on manufacturing is pretty clear in the statute.

 

2C:39-1

 

j."Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

Im happy with the conversation I had with State Police.  This is not a matter of opinion on my end as I have had it clarified for me.  Anything that I have posted that I was unsure about was stated so.  I never claimed ignorance of the law in any form but if you believe you are following the law and can prove so it is not ignorance. PERIOD. No where did I say the State Police gave me any legal advice at any time.  As he clearly stated to me it was applied more commercially. He answered questions pertaining to state law he did not advise me of anything he simply answered my questions and told me the law.  To my knowledge if I shipped it to an Licensed FFL anywhere it would have to come back into the state and be received through state and federal bound book and recorded.  I never asked him about that,  just the way I've always believed it to work.  Never really questioned it that much as it made sense.  

 

OP, I know you have done your research.  I am posting the 2 statutes into this thread below. 

 

I have also never heard of anyone being prosecuted for milling an 80%.  I have no experience in this at all.  I understand that common sense and common practice by the courts would most likely prevail, if the firearm was for personal use and not used in criminal activity. 

 

If you read the law yourself below, there is no written exemption for personal use, or for manufacturing a firearm part *not* to be sold. 

 

 

2C:38-1.

  j.  "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms.  The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

 

2C:58-1.  Registration of manufacturers and wholesale dealers of firearms

  a.  Registration.  Every manufacturer and wholesale dealer of firearms shall register with the superintendent as provided in this section.  No person shall engage in the business of, or act as a manufacturer or wholesale dealer of firearms, or manufacture or sell at wholesale any firearm, until he has so registered.  

  Applications for registration shall be made on such forms as shall be prescribed by the superintendent, and the applicant shall furnish such information and other particulars as may be prescribed by law or by any rules or regulations promulgated by the superintendent.  Each application for registration or renewal shall be accompanied by a fee of $150.00.  

  The superintendent shall prescribe standards and qualifications for the registration of manufacturers and wholesalers of firearms, for the protection of the public safety, health and welfare.  He shall refuse to register any applicant for registration unless he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to engage in business as a manufacturer or wholesale dealer of firearms without any danger to the public safety, health or welfare.  

  The superintendent shall issue a certificate of registration to every person  registered under this section, and such certificate shall be valid for a period  of 3 years from the date of issuance.  

 

 

I do agree with you which is why after reading every law regarding Guns and possession / transport known I decided to call NJSP and turn in the rifle.  I did ask what I could do with the 2nd Lower I had done here... As in where do I take it for destruction as it is illegal to deface a firearm.  He told me all I had to do was cut it 3 places.  And I am getting my FID,  all this questioning came to me over the last 2 weeks after I started shopping for a new upper and seeing posts regarding all of the 80% stuff and whatnot.  I got all panicked and started researching and went to the court house police departments etc lol.... I literally thought I was going to prison.  Where I live they no longer Fingerprint at the local department.  They send you to a MorphoTrack facitlity now.  So I scheduled the appointment and filled out the application for my FID...  it takes 3 months here so I wanted to make sure I was ok in the meantime with the rest of my Rifles. regardless I have to get it so I can take possession of my fathers collection if anything ever happens to him..  I actually made the appointment yesterday after I spoke to State Police. 

[SocietyHill 0]

My advice to you, is to find a buddy in PA or NY that has a machine shop or garage with a vice.  Take the receiver there, and do some work on it.  Take a picture and print it out.  End of story. 

We are indeed on the same page =D.   I was a little concerned about posting that though,  I didnt wanna give anyone ideas lol.

And I do have family both in PA and Upstate NY =D

[SocietyHill 0]

Im actually gonna turn the GPS on on my phone and geo tag the picture so there is no question as well as video tape it .. 

I have a special box called the "If I get arrested give this to my attorney box" the tapes and pics will go in it lol 

[SocietyHill 0]

This is a state policy now. 

 

 

If you inherit firearms via will or testamency, handguns or long guns, you do not need an FPID nor Permits to own or possess them at exempt locations.  They do not need to be registered, for long guns or handguns.  Of course without an FPID, your transportation of all inherited long guns would be restricted (like handguns are with an FPID). 

 

But you may drive to NY state, or any state outside of NJ, personally pickup (cased, secure, in truck or locked up) and transport the entire inherited collection back to your house at that time, legally across state lines.  As long as everything is NJ legal, and you are legally allowed to touch the guns in NY (not sure of this).  NY handgun laws are crazy, so if you're very worried have a NY legal firearm owner package them up for you....  and you take possession of the cases and drive home directly.  I hate NY SAFE, and have no plans to ever research the laws or go there to hunt or shoot anymore. 

 

PA, no worries.  It's a free state. 

Wow that is VERY good info ... Thank you.

 And yes I agree, NY Laws are almost crazier than NJ now.  

And to be honest NY is WAAAAAAAY behind on technology in government making it a real pain in the arse to look-up laws. 

While I do admit I would love to move back to Upsate NY I must confess I cannot see the sense in moving to a state that is about to become more strict than NJ.

If I am not mistaken NY is going to be implementing FID also.  

 

But I have been contemplating moving to PA.  

Ive always liked the way PA did business when it came to Firearms.

 

What sucks is we go to all this trouble to register and be legal and the fact is that some scumbag robbing a bank at gunpoint could care less how many attachments hes got on his rifle or how many rds are in his mag,  and Im sure they could give a shit less whether or not the guns were registered before committing such acts ... Just crazy.

[Shane45 807]

Society, there is a reason you are being advised by many here to proceed with caution in regards to advice and legal opinion from NJSP. Its because many have been burned by it. Did you catch my added link? That came about as a result of said burns. Here it is again:

 

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ag2.html

[RUTGERS95 890]

sickening we even need to discuss this

[Shane45 807]

Agreed but the circumstances are what they are. Id prefer to discuss the topic OUTSIDE a jail cell. Better to keep us and ours free with their ability to vote intact! The 2nd amendment isnt the only right you give up on the inside of a jail cell

[halbautomatisch 60]

OP - before you put to much faith in what you were told by the NJSP FIU, I would suggest calling them again and asking them the exact same questions..............what you will figure out is that you will get different answers every time you call, sometimes the answer will be a complete opposite answer from what you were told before - I know this from personal experience. The references by others here, that you should get what the NJSP told you in writing was more rhetorical in nature than anything..........you'll never get it.

[SocietyHill 0]

OP - before you put to much faith in what you were told by the NJSP FIU, I would suggest calling them again and asking them the exact same questions..............what you will figure out is that you will get different answers every time you call, sometimes the answer will be a complete opposite answer from what you were told before - I know this from personal experience. The references by others here, that you should get what the NJSP told you in writing was more rhetorical in nature than anything..........you'll never get it.

 

have since called them 2 more times to speak with different people....

Same Answers...

Got tired of being paranoid once again...

 

I took both of the lowers I completed in NY and drove to the barracks.

Same Answers...

Asked them a theoretical question to boot...

 

Lets suppose I just made these 2 hrs ago in my garage , and I live 2 blocks away from here,  what would happen with me walking in here with them?

Nothing... We are well aware of the whole 80% Lower Builds and Kits... We have not prosecuted anyone thus far...

 

In my own opinion I think if you are reasonable and dont go building an armory of like 50 or start trying to sell them than there wont be an issue.

 

Im actually pretty comfortable with the whole thing now.  Went to Cumberland Rifleman on  Saturday and Sunday had no issues.. 

My brother who is law Enforcement (Patrolman) went with... We had a good conversation regarding said matter...

I asked him what he would do if he stopped me and found the Rifles in the car... 

His reply was the only thing that would make me arrest anyone over it as being questionable would be if there were no numbers or markings on the receiver at all.. 

IE Blank... He said .. Not having a Firearms ID along with a Rifle with no numbers would set a red flag off in his head.  Otherwise he wouldn't even second guess it .. he also admitted he would question me as to why I don't have a FPID and why I built my lower instead of just buying one but he said those are matters of opinion.

 

Regardless guys there is nothing to stop a person from crossing state lines, going to a friends house and milling away... in that instance it is 100% legal ... So I think their stance is the fact that why would they arrest someone for something when all they have to say is they made it in PA or NY.... They would have A NIGHTMARE PROVING a person milled it in the state of NJ...  I dont htink they would waste that much resource on 1 person with 1 or 2 rifles,  it would exhaust way more resource in man hours for it to even be viable.  

 

And here is my stance... I wouldn't even call a lawyer to handle this in court knowing what I know now.  

Good luck brothers...

[vladtepes 1,060]

the issue is this... 

 

you can say anything you want... 

the state police can say anything they want...

you can point to the fact that no one has ever been prosecuted.... 

you can talk about what an attorney told you.. 

 

but at the end of the day.. you are ALL wrong.. 

the law on this matter is one of the few aspects of NJ law that is crystal clear..

 

this is the LAW.. not my.. or your... or my neighbors interpretation of the law..

 

 

 

2C:38-1.
  j.  "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms.  The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

 

it CLEARLY states it is ANY person.. it doesnt say any person acting in the business of... or anything like that.. it says ANY PERSON.. and one single individual person...period...

[Shane45 807]

If you are so sure of the law, why drive out of state to mill it? Have you changed your position on milling it in state?

[Shane45 807]

 

And yet again:

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ag2.html

 

Whats the first line of that link say on the State police site?

"The New Jersey State Police is not authorized to provide legal advice to private parties."

 

And again, the IMPORTANT part you are overlooking. I can talk to 100 LEO's that say they would never hang me up for the knife in my pocket. But all it takes is the one who will, or the Sgt that wants to make a case because you look funny to him, or the local prosecuter that is anti gun... Good luck representing yourself in court since as you say, you dont even need a lawyer at this point.....

[Parker 213]

I currently own 4 rifles in total.  2 of them were from 80% Lowers.  

I don't own any pistols.  

 

My 308 and 300 Win Mag I bought out of state in NY back in 2004 in NY at that time you could do Face to Face with no paperwork, so I bought my 308 from a guy I knew and I bought the Savage 300 win mag from a Gun Shop and had to go through the 3 day wait and background check.  

 

The other 2 are from 80% lowers that I milled,  I lived in NY when I did one and in NJ when I did the 2nd but Ive never actually mated an upper to the 2nd one I made.  The press surged while I was milling a hole for the selector pin and on top of that It was a project I was working on and screwed up by milling it before I sent it out to be etched because if I were to send it out to be etched I would need to find someone who etches that has an FFL and then I would need to have it shipped back to an FFL dealer and I would in turn have to have my FID to get it back.. Kinda stupid in my opinion.  After trying to find a way to fix the selector hole and realizing it wasn't worth the risk of it malfunctioning I decided to cut up the receiver and start over.

So when I do my 3rd I'm going to have it etched before I  I Mill it then Im gonna Anodize and Dye it myself as I did with the first 2.  Im having the 2nd amendment etched into the mag well on both sides and then praying hands with a cross and rosary.  

 

If you'd like the info on where I got my lowers and who does my etch work PM me I don't wanna post out in the open as I know there are kids that read these forums to so Id like to try and make it harder for kids for obvious reasons.

 

What county in New York has a 3-day wait & background check? Long-arms are instantaneous provided the NICS check passes muster.