Securing my Generator

[fishnut 2,358]

Seriously?

 

"properly exhausted emergency generator"

 

Not possible unless it is outside.

That's funny because the  sportfishing boat that was in my family had 2 generators INSIDE the engine room and they were properly exhausted. Yes it would take some extra work and cost some coin but any engine can be run indoors and exhausted to the outside safely. Also I have personally installed the venting system that the mechanics hook up to the exhaust of the township vehicles for Roxbury TWP so it can and has been done.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

I''d be worried about not only the exhaust danger, but also the risk of the fuel catching on fire.

[Heavyopp 167]

 

 

  If you have not already done so, drive a six or eight foot copper rod into the ground and secure it to the grounding lug on the generator.  Too many people fail to ground these things and that is just asking for trouble.

 

This depends on how you have the genny hooked up to your house --  if it's hooked up to your house --

 

If you are using extension cords then yes, you should drive a ground rod to make a good earth ground for your genny --  

 

If you are hooked up to the elecrical system of your house then you may go against code by driving another ground rod --  depends on the way it's hooked up

 

The new electrical code doesn't want 2 points of ground in any 1 system -- don't give the electricity a choice in which way to go -- make it go 1 way

 

10 years ago -- electricity had a choice -- you needed to ground every sub panel -- what changed?  Just the code

[rifleman 90]

Get a Knack style job box. Make an extension for the exhaust and run it with the lid chained open a few inches for intake air. Add 800 lbs of concrete solid block to the box. If someone can carry my setup, they deserve to have it.

[Howard 538]

This depends on how you have the genny hooked up to your house --  if it's hooked up to your house --

 

If you are using extension cords then yes, you should drive a ground rod to make a good earth ground for your genny --  

 

If you are hooked up to the elecrical system of your house then you may go against code by driving another ground rod --  depends on the way it's hooked up

 

The new electrical code doesn't want 2 points of ground in any 1 system -- don't give the electricity a choice in which way to go -- make it go 1 way

 

10 years ago -- electricity had a choice -- you needed to ground every sub panel -- what changed?  Just the code

That is very interesting about the code change.  I guess it sort of makes sense if the two rods are at different reference potentials, but on the other hand having a ground closer to the source of a problem sounds safer too.  Maybe that is why it was one way and now another way.  I know that my swimming pool panel has its own ground separate from the one in the house which was code at the time.  So are you saying that bonding and grounding a pool circuit is different now also?

[Heavyopp 167]

That is very interesting about the code change.  I guess it sort of makes sense if the two rods are at different reference potentials, but on the other hand having a ground closer to the source of a problem sounds safer too.  Maybe that is why it was one way and now another way.  I know that my swimming pool panel has its own ground separate from the one in the house which was code at the time.  So are you saying that bonding and grounding a pool circuit is different now also?

I have no idea about pools -- I would guess that you still would bond and ground the actual pool itself but that stays separate from the electronics --

 

I do agree that more ground rods seems better to me to but the powers that be say no more...  

 

It really depends on how your hooked up -- if you use a transfer switch does that transfer switch break the ground as well as incoming grid power -- some do some don't 

 

If the switch does, then you drive a ground rod at the genny to replace the broken at transfer switch ground -- it is confusing

[alec.mc 180]

This depends on how you have the genny hooked up to your house --  if it's hooked up to your house --

 

If you are using extension cords then yes, you should drive a ground rod to make a good earth ground for your genny --  

 

If you are hooked up to the elecrical system of your house then you may go against code by driving another ground rod --  depends on the way it's hooked up

 

The new electrical code doesn't want 2 points of ground in any 1 system -- don't give the electricity a choice in which way to go -- make it go 1 way

 

10 years ago -- electricity had a choice -- you needed to ground every sub panel -- what changed?  Just the code

 

I'm not sure about that Jer,

 

I re-did my whole electrical service last year, new feed , panel, the works.

 

Inspector required me to have TWO ground rods for the new panel, at least 8 feet apart from eachother, each with their own grounding wire back to the panel.

[djg0770 481]

I'm not sure about that Jer,

 

I re-did my whole electrical service last year, new feed , panel, the works.

 

Inspector required me to have TWO ground rods for the new panel, at least 8 feet apart from eachother, each with their own grounding wire back to the panel.

 

That's two rods to one panel in one location, that is code now.

[Howard 538]

The bonding at the pool ties to everything including the panel and is grounded so that acts as a second ground to the entire system. I too have a ground for the main panel and a second one about thirty feet away tied to the water line just before the meter.

[Howard 538]

oops double post - deleted

[Scorpio64 5,156]

This depends on how you have the genny hooked up to your house --  if it's hooked up to your house --

 

If you are using extension cords then yes, you should drive a ground rod to make a good earth ground for your genny --  

 

If you are hooked up to the elecrical system of your house then you may go against code by driving another ground rod --  depends on the way it's hooked up

 

The new electrical code doesn't want 2 points of ground in any 1 system -- don't give the electricity a choice in which way to go -- make it go 1 way

 

10 years ago -- electricity had a choice -- you needed to ground every sub panel -- what changed?  Just the code

 

  Mother Earth is a giant battery, every grounding pole is a battery terminal.  Two ground points will create a difference in potential, even on a circuit with no electrons being pumped into it from the utility pole or a generator.  Although slight, the difference in potential (current) can be enough to cause a fire, a risk of electrocution and will also corrode wires over time.

[Night Prowler 0]

I'm not sure about that Jer,

 

I re-did my whole electrical service last year, new feed , panel, the works.

 

Inspector required me to have TWO ground rods for the new panel, at least 8 feet apart from eachother, each with their own grounding wire back to the panel.

Alec code is one ground only if it is tested and certified. Two rods 8' apart as you said is also code if you don't get the single rod tested. It's much cheaper and quicker to run two grounding rods. That is the only reason there is two rods installed for the main panel.

[Porthole 15]

I'm sorry, I thought the discussion was about portable generators and their use.

 

 

Of course it is possible.  Haven't you ever gone to a mechanic that works on cars with the engines running inside a garage?  They attach a hose to the tailpipe and run it out a little hole in the garage door.  The same thing can be done with a generator.  That is what I did with mine that sits in the dog house.  It has a pipe about a foot long that dumps the exhaust out behind the dog house.

 

Sleeping and living areas attached?

My comment was about the suggestion to use the generator in the garage. Your dog house is a completely different spin.

 

So, as to the hose and tailpipe, yes I have, I worked in the automotive field for 20+ years, so I am very familiar with the hose routine.

 

Portable generators are not designed to run inside your garage. You cannot attach a hose to it properly to vent the exhaust. And you still have the fire hazard which is why there is a code to structure proximity.

 

As to attaching the hose to the car, that was not intended for extended run times nor at the RPMs that most portable genny's run at (3600 rpm). The rubber hoses frequently overheat and will begin to burn. Many shops went to in the floor systems with metal hoses because of that.

 

Either the "in the floor" or "overheard" systems all require a mechanical means of evacuation, so you end up with a fan on your roof (or wherever the exhaust is)

 

 

That's funny because the  sportfishing boat that was in my family had 2 generators INSIDE the engine room and they were properly exhausted. Yes it would take some extra work and cost some coin but any engine can be run indoors and exhausted to the outside safely. Also I have personally installed the venting system that the mechanics hook up to the exhaust of the township vehicles for Roxbury TWP so it can and has been done.

 

The key here is that that the "fixed" generator is in a designated machinery space with proper USCG approved fire resistant exhaust piping that is most likely water cooled, and most likely is equipped with some type of fire suppression system.

That generator is designed for that application.

 

That is the experience I had with my own generator equipped sport fishing boat as well as the several charter and T-Boats that I crewed or captained on.

 

I don't see how what the shops use can relate to homeowners. What is the venting in Roxbury?

Our Firehouses all use Plymovent now and for awhile had a mixture of Plymovent or Neiderman MagnaTrak system.

Again, sleeping and living areas attached?

 

 

Here is an obit with some info left out.

Friend, co-worker, retired after 25 years in the fire service, you would think this couldn't happen.

 

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/MyCentralJersey/obituary.aspx?n=Robert-Walsh&pid=160785247

 

What is left out of the obit is that COD was CO poisoning from a portable generator in the garage, running with the door open.

 

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/10/us/sandy-casualties/

Robert "Wally" Walsh, 61

Walsh, a retired Edison County fire fighter, died on October 30 after running a generator in his garage, police say.

[302w 83]

Ahem. Knew this was going to create a mess. 

 

First off, I have yet to run the generator in my garage. My old house didn't have a garage and I just chained it to my F150. 

 

Secondly, the only way I would run a generator in a garage is if I had someone else weld up an exhaust, that would exit somewhere outside. I'm not going to run my generator inside because it IS a hazard and it will still probably be loud as hell. I have a quality generator (Honda), and a proper exhaust wouldn't be a hazard, but still the thought of running it inside I'm not okay with. People have been running engines inside for years, this wouldn't be anything new. Trust me, I'm an engineer. 

 

Those hoses that connect to a tailpipe are near useless imho. I always just opened the garage door when I worked as a mechanic because the fumes always bothered me. At home, half the time I push the car out myself and start it outside. A big block, with a four barrel, and no cats will stank up an attached house real quick. Before anyone hates on my lack of cats, it is a factory setup.

[JeffreyDV 4]

Actually he said this: Yes, I realize what I have said here. I'd love to have a custom exhaust made for my portable generator so I could pump the exhaust out of my garage. I'm not going to because of the risk of fire and such. Maybe when I build my shed I will.  Which says to me he is running it in the garage without any exhaust mechanism.  Actually very little CO in the house from range, dryer or water heater as they all have dedicated vents to the outside.

Most ranges are not vented as they give off little to no CO when working properly. Range vents (if you have one) are for venting smoke/fumes generated from the food not the combustion of natural gas or propane.

[Howard 538]

Ranges are not but hot water heaters are.

[JeffreyDV 4]

Ranges are not but hot water heaters are.

Agreed as are furnaces and clothes dryers.

 

A generator should only be run indoors if the exhaust is routed outside and air is allowed in for the intake.

[Porthole 15]

Unless you have a generator that was manufactured to be run indoors, in an attached living space (have yet to see one), no running generator should be in any "attached to living space" structure.

 

Why would yo want to take that chance?

[ryan_j 0]

CO is not the only issue, as I mentioned before make sure the generator is grounded.  Too many people get electrocuted using ungrounded portable generators.  Remember there is a high probability you will be using this thing in the rain and snow and electricity and water don't mix well.

 

 

If you're using a transfer switch or interlock, you don't need to separately ground the generator. It is grounded through your panel and house ground. 

[Sota 1,191]

in fact you need to be careful about grounding a generator when connected in such a situation. there's been some revisions to the NEC regarding grounding and permanent and portable generators. you really don't want your panel to try and ground through the generator-connected ground in case of a problem with your panel's main ground. it's also why I've noticed they're doing two separate ground spikes for panel ground now.

 

I'm not a electrician but I am an electrical engineer by training. I try to keep up with the NEC changes whenever I have to make some change to my house.