9th circuit rules "good cause" for handgun permits impermissibly burdens the 2nd amendment

[zoid 24]

 

 

Well, NJ residents are kind of like those cows.  Most of them live in a world where guns just aren't in their orbit.  They don't own a gun and don't know anybody who owns a gun, and don't have any desire to own a gun.  If NJ became shall issue tomorrow, there would be no mad rush for new pistol permits - I honestly don't think anyone would notice except us.  Heck, if you could buy a gun with straight NICS tomorrow, there would be no rush on guns either - the poles are still up.  You know who would buy a gun?  That friend you took shooting once who has had his FID application on his kitchen table for the past eight months because he is too lazy to fill it out.

 

There is no pent-up public demand for this in NJ.  So why would a legislator risk being ousted in a primary just to pass a law?  The answer is that he wouldn't.  It's more politically expedient to have CCW forced upon us so he can wring his hands and say "there was nothing I could do."

 

 

 

I agree with this.  I have friends I bring shooting regularly and they love it.  But even then they still would never consider buying a gun.  

If you're not into it you're just not into it.  You don't have to be against it necessarily.  

[Albanian 121]

I agree with this.  I have friends I bring shooting regularly and they love it.  But even then they still would never consider buying a gun.  

If you're not into it you're just not into it.  You don't have to be against it necessarily.  

 

I've only been a gun owner for a year, but I have taken seven different people shooting since then, one of them had gotten their FID with me, the other six? They all say they want a firearm, but none of them have made any effort besides getting the applications the week we went to the range. NJ politicians knew that the complicated process would discourage many people, thus we have a state where gun owners are few and psychopath politicians can continually introduce more restrictive laws. Most people, like mcbethr said, have no involvement with firearms at all besides movie, tv, and news. Which as we all know are the worst sources

[galapoola 102]

Theres alot of hooplah from you NJ folks and thats understandable due to your State's brainwash excersize for all these generations, for lack of a better description.

 

However, I would not just look at this NJ 'tree' and look at the whole forest and its impact. While this eliminates those faulty Circuit court rulings it may only cause NJ to practice more shady court hustling by drafting laws regs that are a continuation of their "progressive matrix of collective public safety". Basically, NJ may craft laws and regs that continue their regime of ctrl and try their best to make it 'lawsuit proof'.

I thought that IL would offer up a "may issue" scheme similar to what we have on the books in NJ. To my surprise, they did not. They have a version of "shall issue" which still amazes me. In NJ the only part of the statute being challenged is "justifiable need". Once that's struck down no superior judge can deny an application from a law abiding citizen who meets the requirements. The subjective tool is taken out of their kit. Nothing in the process changes. You still apply at your PD or NJSP barrack. If you're denied or approved at that level you still go before a judge and he has to sign off. The tyrants in Trenton can try and offer a bill to change the statute but Christie wouldn't sign it. He has national ambitions. With a favorable SCOTUS ruling he has his cover to go along with carry in NJ. Fast forward to when some dumb liberal is our new governor, carry in NJ will have been proven to be a success and no more boogeyman.

[ryan_j 0]

Theres alot of hooplah from you NJ folks and thats understandable due to your State's brainwash excersize for all these generations, for lack of a better description.

 

However, I would not just look at this NJ 'tree' and look at the whole forest and its impact. While this eliminates those faulty Circuit court rulings it may only cause NJ to practice more shady court hustling by drafting laws regs that are a continuation of their "progressive matrix of collective public safety". Basically, NJ may craft laws and regs that continue their regime of ctrl and try their best to make it 'lawsuit proof'.

 

I suspect this is what you're hoping for. 

 

But I doubt it will happen. There are pro gun people in the legislature and if Illinois and Chitcago can do it, we can. We will prevail. 

[ryan_j 0]

I thought that IL would offer up a "may issue" scheme similar to what we have on the books in NJ. To my surprise, they did not. They have a version of "shall issue" which still amazes me. In NJ the only part of the statute being challenged is "justifiable need". Once that's struck down no superior judge can deny an application from a law abiding citizen who meets the requirements. The subjective tool is taken out of their kit. Nothing in the process changes. You still apply at your PD or NJSP barrack. If you're denied or approved at that level you still go before a judge and he has to sign off. The tyrants in Trenton can try and offer a bill to change the statute but Christie wouldn't sign it. He has national ambitions. With a favorable SCOTUS ruling he has his cover to go along with carry in NJ. Fast forward to when some dumb liberal is our new governor, carry in NJ will have been proven to be a success and no more boogeyman.

 

And not for nothing, they can then throw their hands in the air and point to Scalia and co and say, "see, the guys in the black robes did it" and worry about some other more important thing like raising taxes and appeasing organized labor. 

[raz-0 1,259]

Theres alot of hooplah from you NJ folks and thats understandable due to your State's brainwash excersize for all these generations, for lack of a better description.

 

However, I would not just look at this NJ 'tree' and look at the whole forest and its impact. While this eliminates those faulty Circuit court rulings it may only cause NJ to practice more shady court hustling by drafting laws regs that are a continuation of their "progressive matrix of collective public safety". Basically, NJ may craft laws and regs that continue their regime of ctrl and try their best to make it 'lawsuit proof'.

 

HAve you looked at what our senate and assembly churned out in the last 10 years or so. They don't have smarts or knowledge, they will turn out nothing solid. Yes, they could do something stupid like requiring applicants have never received a moving violation or parking ticket. DO you really think that would stand? 

[greatgroverino 0]

14% of NJ are gun owners. Most have to take some interest in their rights. If each gun owner converted one more person to our constitutional right you're at almost 30% of the pop. That becomes a more powerful and larger voice. Keep on keeping on.

[magnawing 5]

In 2012, NJ had 8.865 million residents. 14% is 1.241 million. That number would send a strong voice to Trenton if they would all get off their asses and get to the polls when November rolls around. Apathy is the bane of our current society.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jrfly3006 42]

And not for nothing, they can then throw their hands in the air and point to Scalia and co and say, "see, the guys in the black robes did it" and worry about some other more important thing like raising taxes and appeasing organized labor.

great point...courts could be the lefties easy way of moving on..just blame it on the courts.. They can still say they tried

[NJPatriot 0]

14% of NJ are gun owners. Most have to take some interest in their rights. If each gun owner converted one more person to our constitutional right you're at almost 30% of the pop. That becomes a more powerful and larger voice. Keep on keeping on.

i did my part and do not plan on stopping. In 2013 I added my wife, 2 daughters and 1 boyfriend, as well as my sister in law as NJ FID Card holders. And they vote!

[ryan_j 0]

Just my personal opinion but from my research scotus usually only approves cases with a split ie abortions

 

And now we have a split. 

 

7th and 9th ruled that 2A applies outside the home, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th have ruled that it does not. 

[ryan_j 0]

The wheels are coming off may issue in some counties in CA already. This is probably what will happen in NJ if justifiable need is struck down.

 

http://ocsd.org/about/info/services/ccw

 

Peruta v. County of San Diego

The Orange County Sheriff’s Department will accept CCW applications which include, in the “Details of Reason for Applicant Desiring a CCW License” (on page 10 of 13 of the California Department of Justice Standard Initial and Renewal Application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon), that the CCW license is needed for self-defense or personal safety. Applications which include other reasons showing “good cause” for the CCW License as set forth in the Orange County Sheriff’s Department’s Policy 218, License to Carry a Concealed Firearm, will also be accepted.

If the Peruta v. County of San Diego panel decision is withdrawn by a decision to rehear the case en banc in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, or a stay is issued by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals or the United States Supreme Court, we may require applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Orange County Sheriff’s Department’s Policy 218. 

Please be aware the application process includes an interview, payment of fees, as well as state and local background checks. Successful completion of a firearms course of training is also required.

 

There you have it. Orange County, CA is now shall issue. 

[njpilot 671]

In 2012, NJ had 8.865 million residents. 14% is 1.241 million. That number would send a strong voice to Trenton if they would all get off their asses and get to the polls when November rolls around. Apathy is the bane of our current society.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

One thing you seem to forget. Quite a few of the gun owners in this state are democrats. To them, it is more important to tow the line and vote democrat than it is to protect their rights. Everything else the dems stand for, gay marriage, free cell phones, food stamps and other free stuff are more important to many of them then their gun rights.

[chris327 30]

One thing you seem to forget. Quite a few of the gun owners in this state are democrats. To them, it is more important to tow the line and vote democrat than it is to protect their rights. Everything else the dems stand for, gay marriage, free cell phones, food stamps and other free stuff are more important to many of them then their gun rights.

that is a major part of it. Not every gun owner looks at gun rights as a reason of who to vote for. I do and i encourage most family and friends who i think they should vote for. But not everyone cares as much as us about gun rights. as NJpilot pointed out some gun owners are more concerned with other things the dems are for. especially alot of the younger people, many colleges (rutgers newark) push democratic beliefs and make you look like the devil for saying your a republican. ive had this happen to me in all political climate classes in rutgers newark, and argued with most teachers saying gun control is needed. And the majority of most classes agreed with the teachers. probably because they push it in every class. mind you i graduated there in 2011 so that was pre newtown.

[ryan_j 0]

Not only that, but I am betting a lot of gun owners are hunters who support gun control as long as it doesn't impact hunting. Yeah, those mall ninjas with their AR15s? Fugg them. As long as I get to keep my shotgun. See NJOA endorsing Sweeney for example. 

 

Or they could be like the guys I meet at the range who don't have a clue what's going on, despite being on the mailing list (the emails go promptly in the trash). 

[Fred2 367]

Not only that, but I am betting a lot of gun owners are hunters who support gun control as long as it doesn't impact hunting. Yeah, those mall ninjas with their AR15s? Fugg them. As long as I get to keep my shotgun. See NJOA endorsing Sweeney for example. 

 

Or they could be like the guys I meet at the range who don't have a clue what's going on, despite being on the mailing list (the emails go promptly in the trash). 

to get the word out, we have to put signs like this up on the highways on the NJ PA border (just change the text a little)

 

[EX Carnival man 223]

The wheels are coming off may issue in some counties in CA already. This is probably what will happen in NJ if justifiable need is struck down.

 

http://ocsd.org/about/info/services/ccw

 

Peruta v. County of San Diego

The Orange County Sheriff’s Department will accept CCW applications which include, in the “Details of Reason for Applicant Desiring a CCW License” (on page 10 of 13 of the California Department of Justice Standard Initial and Renewal Application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon), that the CCW license is needed for self-defense or personal safety. Applications which include other reasons showing “good cause” for the CCW License as set forth in the Orange County Sheriff’s Department’s Policy 218, License to Carry a Concealed Firearm, will also be accepted.

 

If the Peruta v. County of San Diego panel decision is withdrawn by a decision to rehear the case en banc in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, or a stay is issued by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals or the United States Supreme Court, we may require applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Orange County Sheriff’s Department’s Policy 218. 

 

Please be aware the application process includes an interview, payment of fees, as well as state and local background checks. Successful completion of a firearms course of training is also required.

 

There you have it. Orange County, CA is now shall issue. 

Thanks Ryan

[ChrisJM981 924]

Not only that, but I am betting a lot of gun owners are hunters who support gun control as long as it doesn't impact hunting. Yeah, those mall ninjas with their AR15s? Fugg them. As long as I get to keep my shotgun. See NJOA endorsing Sweeney for example. 

 

Or they could be like the guys I meet at the range who don't have a clue what's going on, despite being on the mailing list (the emails go promptly in the trash). 

 

I work with a fudd that can't imagine why we need "magazines that hold so many bullets". He's my age, which surprised me a bit. Most of the people my age that I work with and own firearms are into a little of everything, I think I will ask him why he needs a rifle if he can't hunt with it, or why he should have a shotgun that holds more than 3 shells. 

[ryan_j 0]

I work with a fudd that can't imagine why we need "magazines that hold so many bullets". He's my age, which surprised me a bit. Most of the people my age that I work with and own firearms are into a little of everything, I think I will ask him why he needs a rifle if he can't hunt with it, or why he should have a shotgun that holds more than 3 shells. 

 

This is because they view gun ownership through the narrow window of hunting. It was interesting talking to people while working the NJ2AS booth at GSOSS (I met one guy who said he was a NJGF member too). There were a few outright antis but what surprised me was that there were a few people who were "soft" antis, like supporting "reasonable restrictions" that pretty much made guns unsuitable for anything but hunting. One person even said that guns shouldn't be used for self defense, that's what the police and his dogs are there for. Unbelievable. 

[ryan_j 0]

to get the word out, we have to put signs like this up on the highways on the NJ PA border (just change the text a little)

 

 

 

It's fake. The spoof is a template for other states like LA and NC and they use the same 170k number. 

[n4p226r 105]

One thing you seem to forget. Quite a few of the gun owners in this state are democrats. To them, it is more important to tow the line and vote democrat than it is to protect their rights. Everything else the dems stand for, gay marriage, free cell phones, food stamps and other free stuff are more important to many of them then their gun rights.

 

 

and there is nothing wrong with that.  I'm all for lots of things that is generally more acceptable on the democrat/liberal side, but i put constitutional rights above that.  

[n4p226r 105]

can someone explain why this does/does not effect everything in the 9th circuit?  lets assume the city doesn't appeal and this ruling stays, what causes other cities or states to abandon this policy?

[magnawing 5]

Common Sense?  Nevermind...forgot we were talking about Government entities.

[ryan_j 0]

can someone explain why this does/does not effect everything in the 9th circuit?  lets assume the city doesn't appeal and this ruling stays, what causes other cities or states to abandon this policy?

 

It applies to the entire 9th circuit. Immediately affected are CA and HI and I believe Guam and the Northern Mariana islands. If there is no appeal, a mandate will be issued and they will have to accept "self defense" as good cause for issuing a permit, or allow open carry. 

[n4p226r 105]

so is there a stay currently or do they have to ask for one?  how long before it all takes effect?

[ryan_j 0]

so is there a stay currently or do they have to ask for one?  how long before it all takes effect?

 

There is no stay, but there is only a decision, not a mandate (court order). Once there is a mandate, it's case law that has to be followed. Until there is a mandate, the existing law applies.

 

But some like Orange County are already preparing to accept applications with "self defense" as the good cause. 

[n4p226r 105]

ah.  i'll be looking out for that!

[ryan_j 0]

Sheriff decided not to appeal. The decision becomes final next week, but a judge on the 9th circuit can ask for en Banc review within 7 days. Less likely than the appellants asking but still a possibility. So, Barring another appeal, CA will become shall issue on March 7.

 

This also has a huge effect on our case, Drake v Jerejian since there is now a well established circuit split.

[ryan_j 0]

http://apps.sdsheriff.net/press/Default.aspx?FileLink=fce6dc6b-e015-4c15-8d6c-4e38b4e212e1

[Newtonian 453]

(sorry this would have been a repeat)