Someone's SHTF every day...

[louu 399]

Parker, Vlad, Spike7.62, Oneshot, MaintenanceGuy, Millsan1, I totally agree with you guys. Its just kinda hard for me to see it because I have so many friends that were former Military and police and I just cant see them doing something like that.  

 

But then again I've gotten pulled over by quite a few cops for just simple little things, been totally cool with the cop and treating him just like and other good guy and could easily see him shooting me in the back because they were acting like a robot with no soul...

[pjd832 146]

In what way? You clearly have no understanding of the event if you think what I wrote is ridiculous.

 

The people shot were not on the front ranks, they were the people in the parking lots...walking to class, watching from a distance, etc. This is what made May 4th even more appalling; That people not actively in the demonstration flinging rocks and concrete were the ones killed or wounded.

 

Why the guard was there, why they had live ammo, etc, are all "ridiculous", but the way the event played out and who was injured is fact whether you like it or don't.

...

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear...I did not mean to infer you had drank the kool aide or that I believed the front row of protestors were mowed down.... what I meant was ridiculous is the notion they 1. Had fired lethal rounds period "over their heads" or not .....2. That from an "elevated position firing over the heads" wasn't going to impact others on a campus...3.that the c.o. who gave the order didn't KNOW BETTER....4.the possibly the ones that opened fire were pissed off from being stoned by the crowd and intentionally dropped a few rounds into someone "by accident while following orders" would not surprise me....... And being a "state university" would they/professors/faculty not be coached into spewing the "official story" .....not that unlike other such events....children's school history books new version/pov on past events?.....

[pjd832 146]

Dupe

[Malsua 1,422]

...

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear...I did not mean to infer you had drank the kool aide or that I believed the front row of protestors were mowed down.... what I meant was ridiculous is the notion they 1. Had fired lethal rounds period "over their heads" or not .....2. That from an "elevated position firing over the heads" wasn't going to impact others on a campus...3.that the c.o. who gave the order didn't KNOW BETTER....4.the possibly the ones that opened fire were pissed off from being stoned by the crowd and intentionally dropped a few rounds into someone "by accident while following orders" would not surprise me....... And being a "state university" would they/professors/faculty not be coached into spewing the "official story" .....not that unlike other such events....children's school history books new version/pov on past events?.....

 

At the time, May 4, 1970, one method of crowd control was to fire over the heads of protestors.    My understanding was that the guard was "informally" trained to take aim at the top of the heads of the people they wish to disperse, elevate a certain amount and fire when ordered.   Bluff shots or some such.  They were LOOKING at the people in the front rank, they aimed at their heads, elevated and the order to fire was given.    When someone is below you, on a hill, the actual elevation of the rifle is down, but when you're getting pelted with rocks, you've got tunnel vision and you're following orders.    If you ever visit Kent, be sure to stop by and visit the memorial which is over by Prentice  hall, then make your way over to hill by Taylor hall.  They've added dorms in recent years so I'm not sure if the parking lots are the same but Taylor hill is steep and tall.

 

Again, I'm not excusing the ignorance of the order or why the guard decided to take a stand at the hill but I can understand why it happened in the sense of the physics of it.   I do not believe any of the guard shot any of the out of state agitators.  Everyone killed or wounded were well away from the front of the protest, so no I don't think there were any "revenge" shots.

 

As far as the professors "towing the line", you have to understand, Jerry Lewis, the Socialism professor I did the "tour" with is, or was a very outspoken critic of the school and always a featured speaker at the annual memorial.  I don't know if he's still alive, but he's as socialist/commie/hippie as they come and would probably have lit the ROTC building on fire himself(one of the escalation triggers for May 4) in his younger years.   That said, when I went there in the 80s, there were still plenty of teaches and full time workers who were there that day, and I listened to everyone's story as it was always a big topic every year.

 

 

 

 

 

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[petros600 12]

Anyone that doesnt agree with what the Gov do/says is a terrorist.

George Bush said, "Either you are  with us, or you are with the terrorist".

 

 

 

 

 

Armed citizens are treated like crazies and domestic terrorists in the USA. If you own guns you are some kind of whack job conservative who has it in for the liberal agenda and the people 

who comprise that agenda.  2A was put in place so the corrupt govt of this country could be kept in line and removed by force if need be. An unarmed population is nothing more than a subject

of a tyrannical Govt ,which is within our midst as we speak

[petros600 12]

But USA will fix this, the next president of Venezuela will be Leopoldo Mendoza(currently arrest cause his opposition to Maduro).

Here some facts:

Mendoza when to US prep school(The Hun School of Princeton) a boarding school(at a cost of $55k/year) in Princeton

He then went to Kenyon College in Ohio(at a cost of $60k/year) and then to Harvard for Masters Degree in Political science (another $60k/yr university).

 

So a spoiled young man that lived in USA most of his life, tells the poor people of Venezuela that knows what they going thru and he wants to bring democracy back to them!!

I bet Exxon it was one of his sponsor in USA and covered most of his expenses.

 

 

Fixed it for ya...

[magnawing 5]

Just like the spoiled, immigrant brat that's currently squatting illegally in the White House and legislating with his pen instead of the Constitution.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I guess they picked the wrong side

 

http://madworldnews.com/watch-ukraine-riot-police-beg-for-forgiveness-unbelievable-turn-of-events/

 

 

[Newtonian 453]

We talk a lot about "when SHTF" but think about what that means. Someone's S hit the fan yesterday. Somewhere, the S is hitting the fan for a lot of people. Tomorrow it will be someone else's turn. Whether a victim of robbery or a citizen surrounded by a chaotic outburst of violence, it is happening NOW.

 

We need to "learn from a distance". Observe when SHTF to others so we can respond better ourselves. Feel free to post something; for example a CCTV clip of someone who was robbed at a gas station and fought back. We can observe and discuss tactics from the enemy and friendly players.

 

Today I present this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=729_1393335320

 

In Kiev, Ukraine S is hitting the fan for a lot of people. These protestors, mostly unarmed, tried storming the Parliment. They were met with live ammunition from automatic weapons and snipers. Even a man carrying a stretcher was not spared. When unarmed citizens are shot through the head by police, that government has lost its legitimacy and must be destroyed. Those people were being pushed. We are being pushed too. Don't think "it can't happen here". This video show case why I cling to my guns. When or if the SHTF like that to me, I wont be hugging the ground holding a baseball bat.

I read somewhere that the Ukrainians want some form of constitutional gun rights from whatever emerges from that mess. Would be ironic if a former Soviet republic enjoyed rights that we don't in NJ. 

[gleninjersey 2,141]

If the object of this thread is to learn how to handle a situation when the SHTF then I would say from the video posted the 1st leason to learn is when to make a tactical retreat to rethink how to accomplish your objective.

 

If their objective was to capture control of a building and they were getting slaughtered using the current strategy, fall back and try to use the darkness of night as cover. Perhaps us a smaller staggered group instead of a mass of people marching directly into sniper fire. At the same time "runners" are getting ready to penetrate the target, stage a distraction where the loss of life is less likely.

[bulpup 98]

If the object of this thread is to learn how to handle a situation when the SHTF then I would say from the video posted the 1st leason to learn is when to make a tactical retreat to rethink how to accomplish your objective.

 

If their objective was to capture control of a building and they were getting slaughtered using the current strategy, fall back and try to use the darkness of night as cover.

I think it has more to do with how your brain freezes under stress. They were psyched to do battle with riot Police but were completely untrained for the kind of situation it turned out to be.

 

Mentally they were scared out of their minds, had no experience to even communicate what was happening to the rest of the group, no way to even process that there was an active sniper "covering" the area. They were pinned down and they didn't even know what the word meant.

[raz-0 1,259]

Remember the DHS "no hesitation" range targets featuring pregnant women and kids holding guns?

 

I somehow missed that one.  For anyone else who did. I love how they say LEO are dying in droves. 50-60 a year? Really, that's your excuse?  I'm all for someone is trying to kill you, kill them right back, but some of those targets have shoot through situations with small children. 

 

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/high-tide-and-turn/2013/feb/28/dhs-training-practice-targets-featuring-children-p/

[fatty 241]

I somehow missed that one.  For anyone else who did. I love how they say LEO are dying in droves. 50-60 a year? Really, that's your excuse?  I'm all for someone is trying to kill you, kill them right back, but some of those targets have shoot through situations with small children. 

 

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/high-tide-and-turn/2013/feb/28/dhs-training-practice-targets-featuring-children-p/

I can't think of any reason why these kinds of range targets would possibly exist. Its disgusting on every level to be training like that.

[magnawing 5]

DHS "officers" are not exactly well known for being the "cream of the crop" as far as law enforcement goes. Remember, TSA is DHS and it has been well documented that they are well stocked with thieves at various airports. I question their pre-employment "background checks". If you're looking for "peacekeepers" that have no qualms about turning a gun on Americans, including children, why not hire gangbangers and assorted other thugs on the DL.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[oneshot 45]

So when do we stand up to the Govt regardless of the cost of life? My guess is never , because everyone talks tough and has taken "tactical" training classes etc but when the shtf most will run for the hills ,leaving those that stand holding the bag. We dont even closely resemble the men who fought the revolution,in heart , desire for freedom and willingness to pay the ultimate price so others

can be free. This country is completely pussified when it comes to fighting the Govt.

[brocglock23 4]

So when do we stand up to the Govt regardless of the cost of life? My guess is never , because everyone talks tough and has taken "tactical" training classes etc but when the shtf most will run for the hills ,leaving those that stand holding the bag. We dont even closely resemble the men who fought the revolution,in heart , desire for freedom and willingness to pay the ultimate price so others

can be free. This country is completely pussified when it comes to fighting the Govt.

This is just my opinion on your comment. This country is not "completely pussified" when it comes to fighting the government. The problem is not everyone wants the same thing. Our country isn't the same as when our founding fathers fought for what we have. Hell, 4 score and 7 years later we were fighting each other. We are fighting each other now. Do I believe there are a bunch a pussified people. Hell yeah but they fight their battles without weapons so can we. I'm willing to bet that if the time comes and the government is trying to confiscate, you will see something different.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

[oneshot 45]

This is just my opinion on your comment. This country is not "completely pussified" when it comes to fighting the government. The problem is not everyone wants the same thing. Our country isn't the same as when our founding fathers fought for what we have. Hell, 4 score and 7 years later we were fighting each other. We are fighting each other now. Do I believe there are a bunch a pussified people. Hell yeah but they fight their battles without weapons so can we. I'm willing to bet that if the time comes and the government is trying to confiscate, you will see something different.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Unfortunately they are taking our freedom slowly and methodically which most people don't realize. By the time people realize whats happening it will be to late. So how long do we wait to take back our rights/freedom? Dont be so quick to say "fight their battles without weapons". I consider DHS,IRS,NSA and a host of other Govt entities weapons. Weapons of persuasion ,threatening subtly and not so subtly to eradicate you if you push the Govt elite to hard. The confiscation has already started unless I'm reading and seeing different news than everyone else. I will agree to disagree on the pussification. So you are saying we should not fight for the  same freedoms the founding fathers fought for? Things have changed so much that those rights and freedoms are no longer valid? If thats what you mean then again i respectfully disagree. Until people wake up there is little chance freedom will reign in this country. If we have to physically drag them from the senate ,congress and the White house kicking and screaming I'm for it. We own every piece of property they use as there Kingdom. We fund it, we maintain it. It is ours so we should have the right to evict.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

 

 

Analysis of the sniper shootings in Maidan. Unfortunately, it's all in Russian. This analysis demonstrates that from the trajectories of the hits that were video taped, the snipers must have been inside the buildings controlled by the protesters (rebels at this point). Also demonstrates that some of the shots, the police held positions just did not have the trajectory. Footage from the police side shows the police snipers aiming upwards, at the positions where those suspected unknown snipers were. They police reported that they were taking shots from snipers from those directions. The police were moving in a way that is to avoid sniper fire. The police were only ordered to shoot at armed civilians. These are not bloodthirsty SS. Sniper fire for crowd control purposes is not effective for cops. This was done to rile people up, to make it impossible for the elected government to remain in office, and it forced Yanukovich to compromise with Westerners and suddenly a new government was formed. What's going on over there is very dirty, and the Western governments know this. But the general population is sold a dumbed down clean version with clear cut good guys and bad guys. Don't buy into it!

[bulpup 98]

I wish I understood what they said. However none of that information really can lead you to a conclusion. A trained sniper goes where you can't find him and fires so you can't locate him.

 

It is very plausible that a sniper would in fact hide in a building and shoot from it even with "enemies" in it. I would be surprised if these rebels had the skill set to clear a building of snipers judging from how they couldn't ever figure out not to stand in a pool of blood.

 

Furthermore, I hadn't suspected that the police were doing the shooting. There are plenty of people against what they were doing in their own country. Some of them military, some just plain old people not willing to let the protesters over run parliament.

[davenj8 0]

they don't need to shoot us they already monitor everything we text, type, lookup and watch... They can take us out many other less attention drawing ways. IRS, reputation smear and questionable illegal activity by way of some obscure technicality. An individual with our guns is the least fearful things for the government. What they concentrate on stopping is togetherness, solidarity and our own group think, should we come together and organize they would crush It in seconds.