Someone's SHTF every day...

[Spike 7.62 0]

We talk a lot about "when SHTF" but think about what that means. Someone's S hit the fan yesterday. Somewhere, the S is hitting the fan for a lot of people. Tomorrow it will be someone else's turn. Whether a victim of robbery or a citizen surrounded by a chaotic outburst of violence, it is happening NOW.

 

We need to "learn from a distance". Observe when SHTF to others so we can respond better ourselves. Feel free to post something; for example a CCTV clip of someone who was robbed at a gas station and fought back. We can observe and discuss tactics from the enemy and friendly players.

 

Today I present this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=729_1393335320

 

In Kiev, Ukraine S is hitting the fan for a lot of people. These protestors, mostly unarmed, tried storming the Parliment. They were met with live ammunition from automatic weapons and snipers. Even a man carrying a stretcher was not spared. When unarmed citizens are shot through the head by police, that government has lost its legitimacy and must be destroyed. Those people were being pushed. We are being pushed too. Don't think "it can't happen here". This video show case why I cling to my guns. When or if the SHTF like that to me, I wont be hugging the ground holding a baseball bat.

[18Steel 11]

Wow that shit was crazy.   Hearing about it is totally different than actually seeing it. Gotta give those people credit.  They had nothing but some thin metal shields and some wooden sticks and didn't retreat.  

 

I couldn't agree more and with the bs "it would never happen here" mentality.   Nothing surprises me anymore and a rather be prepared than victimized.

[JibbaJabba 7]

The citizens of Ukraine have demonstrated many lessons to be studied, far from least these being how the young and old galvanized behind the effort behind the front lines. There's a strong push for a Ukrainian second amendment by the people, which causes me to be reminded of how brilliant our founders were.

[louu 399]

What kind of person can shoot unarmed people like that? I really cant see our law enforcement or Military shooting at Americans like that.

[Parker 213]

What kind of person can shoot unarmed people like that? I really cant see our law enforcement or Military shooting at Americans like that.

 

Ohio National Guard, Kent State Univ., May 4,1970.

[Malsua 1,422]

Ohio National Guard, Kent State Univ., May 4,1970.

 

The guard was aiming over the heads of the professional agitators.  They were standing on Taylor hill and if someone is below you and you aim over their head, you hit the people in the parking lot behind the agitators.

 

I went to Kent State University, I talked to a number of people who were there that day, including my sociology professor Jerry Lewis who spent the May 4th week discussing the shootings.  We even did a field walk of all the places and timings.   As a full time student I walked around there countless times.    This is where the "The Beyond" of know your target and beyond comes in.  They were not aiming directly at their targets.

[pjd832 146]

The guard was aiming over the heads of the professional agitators.  They were standing on Taylor hill and if someone is below you and you aim over their head, you hit the people in the parking lot behind the agitators.

 

I went to Kent State University, I talked to a number of people who were there that day, including my sociology professor Jerry Lewis who spent the May 4th week discussing the shootings.  We even did a field walk of all the places and timings.   As a full time student I walked around there countless times.    This is where the "The Beyond" of know your target and beyond comes in.  They were not aiming directly at their targets.

That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in quite a while.. Lol

[Vlad G 345]

What kind of person can shoot unarmed people like that? I really cant see our law enforcement or Military shooting at Americans like that.

 

Really? Because there are not a lot people getting shot by police today (accidentally or intentionally?) Because the treatment of OWS protestors was kind? Because don't taze me bro? because of Bonus Army? Kent State? Browse copblock.org someday. Because there isn't a rich history of the US using its military to put down union strikes?

 

I'm not saying that the entire US army is going to roll tanks over babies, or that most cops will go on wild shooting sprees. Most of these folks are decent human beings. But under the right circumstances, with the wrong people in the wrong places mothers holding their children gets shot by snipers.  Even in the US.

[oneshot 45]

If you think for a second that the government ,Military or LE wouldn't shoot unarmed citizens you are living in a bubble. Do some research and you will find cases

 of just that. Yep I will keep my guns, you keep the hope and change.

[maintenanceguy 510]

In all of world history, I have never heard of one time when the police or military refused orders to either (1) seize the property of the people (2) round the people into camps, or (2) fire on the people.  

 

 

I have no reason to believe we are any different.   When it gets really bad it's always "us" against "them" and it's pretty easy for the government to convince it's military and police that they are part of "them" and we are the evil "us".

[Vlad G 345]

In all of world history, I have never heard of one time when the police or military refused orders to either (1) seize the property of the people (2) round the people into camps, or (2) fire on the people.  

 

Actually that does happen too. Most of eastern europe coming out of communism is an example, in many cases the military was ordered to shoot protestors and it refused. Some of those countries falling out of communism would have not happened without the armies refusing orders.

[Spike 7.62 0]

This is a good question; Would OUR police or military ever do this?

 

I am a history major so I look back in time to find the answer. My assessment; Yes, there is precedence. Boston 1770, regular British soldiers fire live ammunition into a crowd of protestors (their own subjects) killing and wounding indiscriminately. The entire US Civil War. New York City 1863, regular US soldiers were deployed to suppress the draft riots, killing at least over 100 and wounding thousands. The many hundreds of times US soldiers pillaged, raped and murdered the American Indians during their genocide. During WWI certain German-Americans were imprisoned with no warrant or due process, simply because an order was issued. After Pearl Harbor the FBI and US Army imprisoned many thousands of Japanese/German/Italian-Americans and held them in camps with no warrant or due process. Their personal property was forfeited. Simply because an order was issued and people follow orders. The Kent State issue can be boiled down to US soldiers using lethal force against unarmed protestors.

 

Look around the world. In Germany it wasn't "Nazi's killing Jews" it was Germans killing Germans, to simplify. They shared nationality, language, culture, history, even religion (there was a very loose definition of "Jewish"). But yet Heinz loaded Moisha into the train car, left him in there for days and led him to the concentration camp. If you're interested in the subject, read "Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101" it's one of the best holocaust books in my opinion. It is writtien from the perspective of perpetrators. These were average Joe's who were in a group mentality. An individual person is not so dangerous. They can be empathetic, convinced, negotiated with. But a group of people is extremely dangerous; Group thinking overcomes the individual, group achievement overcomes, group concerns overcome and group mentality overcomes and the group as a whole will do whatever IT is told.

 

Ukrainian police were killing Ukrainian protestors because they were ordered to and everyone else was doing it. That's all it takes. They aren't any different at heart from anyone else, or us.

[oneshot 45]

^^^^^^^^^ What he said. You dont have to look hard to find evidence of Govt,military and LE killing the citizens of this country . It could very well happen at any moment.

The DHS is the presidents private army,which is funded by the citizens. They continually look to use drone strikes on citizens. The DHS is an entity thats like the IRS an unchained

rabid animal. looking for a reason to destroy and take lives.The IRS  has purchased MRAPS and millions of rounds of ammo as has the DHS. For what reason?

[Underdog 1,593]

The militarization of the police is certainly scary.  And, you cannot discount the degradation of our society... violent video games, a loss of any meaningful religious education/affiliation (there is something bigger than just my ID), a loss of common sense and a rewriting of history for our young people, the forming of neurons, etc. into shortened attention spans, and of course the foreign chemicals, illegal drugs, etc. that our organic machines have to contend with...  And yes, the self-serving, unintelligent politicians that subject us to their crap every day, regulation and law after regulation and law... the Schumer has hit the  fan.

[jm1827 284]

In all of world history, I have never heard of one time when the police or military refused orders to either (1) seize the property of the people (2) round the people into camps, or (2) fire on the people.  

 

 

I have no reason to believe we are any different.   When it gets really bad it's always "us" against "them" and it's pretty easy for the government to convince it's military and police that they are part of "them" and we are the evil "us".

And remember, it is never against the entire population, the government can and does create subsets of the population to target, and provides their point ov view as to why these subsets must be dealt with.  That makes it easy for the military to just follow orders.

[Malsua 1,422]

That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in quite a while.. Lol

 

In what way?   You clearly have no understanding of the event if you think what I wrote is ridiculous.

 

The people shot were not on the front ranks, they were the people in the parking lots...walking to class, watching from a distance, etc.   This is what made May 4th even more appalling; That people not actively in the demonstration flinging rocks and concrete were the ones killed or wounded.

 

Why the guard was there, why they had live ammo, etc, are all "ridiculous", but the way the event played out and who was injured is fact whether you like it or don't.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

Pretty powerful video from Venezuela:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202512078575949

 

Middle class and students rising up against the corrupt, Socialist government.  Hugo Chavez drew his support from the slums to get elected by attacking the working class and giving away handouts to the slums.  Kinda like what's happening in NJ politics.

[Albanian 121]

Actually that does happen too. Most of eastern europe coming out of communism is an example, in many cases the military was ordered to shoot protestors and it refused. Some of those countries falling out of communism would have not happened without the armies refusing orders.

 

 

Yup, it can happen both ways. I like to think America's police force and military would be one of those where it would be likely to NOT fire upon its own citizens. Not saying it wouldn't ever, because they have already, but not all the time.

 

I feel there would be a lot of defecting in America. It helps that there are 9 civilian firearms to every 10 citizens. I am thinking the Ukrainian government would have been a lot more timid if that was the case in Kiev... then again, they may have been more brutal. Who can say?

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Those "Shields" of theirs did nothing for them....

[magnawing 5]

Pretty powerful video from Venezuela:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202512078575949

 

Middle class and students rising up against the corrupt, Socialist government.  Hugo Chavez US. Politicians drew their support from the slums  to get elected by attacking the working class American citizens  and giving away handouts to the slums.  Kinda like what's happening in NJ American politics.

 

Fixed it for ya...

[n4p226r 105]

they certainly didn't have problems disarming those in new orleans

[n4p226r 105]

what exactly were they trying to do besides protect that tree and get shot at?

[millsan1 3]

Ruby Ridge?

 

Waco?

[BlueLineFish 615]

Seeing the unarmed protesters being sniped from a distance is very disturbing. I mean its one thing if its up close and they have melee weapons but snipeds at a distance is jusy wrong in this application

[fatty 241]

Remember the DHS "no hesitation" range targets featuring pregnant women and kids holding guns?

[Vlad G 345]

Seeing the unarmed protesters being sniped from a distance is very disturbing. I mean its one thing if its up close and they have melee weapons but snipeds at a distance is jusy wrong in this application

 

Why, dictators have been doing it forever, why does it surprise you?

[Albanian 121]

Why, dictators have been doing it forever, why does it surprise you?

 

In his defense he said "disturbed" not "surprised". I doubt there is any adult that would find these actions "surprising".

[BlueLineFish 615]

Nothing surprises me anymore. I gave up being surprised and now just expect the worst.

[Damjan 73]

At least someone over there has some good ideas

 

 

The Ukrainian Gun Owners Association has released a statement saying, "Today every citizen of Ukraine understands why our country has hundreds of thousands of policemen. Last illusions were crushed when riot police used rubber batons and boots at the Independence Square on peaceful citizens. After such actions we realize that it is not enough to only adopt the Gun Law. As of today Ukrainian Gun Owners Association will start to work on the preparation of amendments to the Constitution, which will provide an unconditional right for Ukrainian citizens to bear arms. People should have the right to bear arms, which will be put in written into the Constitution. Authorities should not and will not be stronger than its people! Armed people are treated with respect"

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/02/24/demand-for-new-constiutional-amendments-in-the-ukraine-the-right-to-bear-arms-must-be-included-n1799858

[oneshot 45]

Armed citizens are treated like crazies and domestic terrorists in the USA. If you own guns you are some kind of whack job conservative who has it in for the liberal agenda and the people 

who comprise that agenda.  2A was put in place so the corrupt govt of this country could be kept in line and removed by force if need be. An unarmed population is nothing more than a subject

of a tyrannical Govt ,which is within our midst as we speak