Ficus 36 Posted March 30, 2014 So every time I apply for permits my township makes me get a background check. Is that a normal thing? I mean 20 bucks isn't much but damn I had to get 4 of them last year and they are starting to add up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 30, 2014 Yes. Part of the normal FPID/P2P application process. OTOH, your CLEO could require you to do fingerprints @ $50+ each time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted March 30, 2014 Yep. If you think youre gonna be getting more than one in a short period of time...get multiple permits...can usually have them extended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted March 30, 2014 So every time I apply for permits my township makes me get a background check. Is that a normal thing? I mean 20 bucks isn't much but damn I had to get 4 of them last year and they are starting to add up. Yes, it's normal. They have to ensure that you haven't committed a crime since the last background check. I got my initial P2P (with Morpho Trak in lieu of the background check) in December, 2013. Earlier this month, 3-4mos later, I applied for 2 additional P2Ps. They did another background check for the $20.00 you mentioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ficus 36 Posted March 30, 2014 Thanks for the replies. That's what I figured. Just wasn't sure if my small town was trying to get over on me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ficus 36 Posted March 30, 2014 I really can't complain anywY because the last few times I got them in 2-3 weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted March 30, 2014 What a waste of time and man hours for the police. NICS does the background check again right before your purchase. Of course, if you buy face to face, there is no NICS. Even then, you could have committed a crime after the issue date anyway. This procedure is so 46 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted March 30, 2014 I really can't complain anywY because the last few times I got them in 2-3 weeks. Agreed that some towns are getting it done faster because of the electronic aspects. But fast bullshit is still bullshit. Also I always get at least 3 permits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ficus 36 Posted March 30, 2014 What a waste of time and man hours for the police. NICS does the background check again right before your purchase. Of course, if you buy face to face, there is no NICS. Even then, you could have committed a crime after the issue date anyway. This procedure is so 46 years ago.Yup I agree. It's a complete waste of time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Glock guy 1,127 Posted March 30, 2014 What a waste of time and man hours for the police. NICS does the background check again right before your purchase. Of course, if you buy face to face, there is no NICS. Even then, you could have committed a crime after the issue date anyway. This procedure is so 46 years ago. Couldn't have said it better! And don't even get me started on the need for repeat fingerprinting. The value of fingerprints is that they are a permanent record of one's identity. They never change, and are on file digitally. So why should anyone ever need to get fingerprinted more than once??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikka1 2 Posted March 31, 2014 You better try to explain how come after a) undergoing an extensive check the first time you get your FID (it took me ~4 months to get my initial FID), b) undergoing similarly extensive checks every time you get new permits (~3 months for me with all the same letters sent to my references etc.) ... you still get DELAYED by NICS, presumably in order to run a couple of EXTRA checks on you... just to tell you a day (or a couple of hours) later that you were approved. This is just completely and simply beyond my understanding... What the h**l is the reason of issuing those P2Ps at all if you STILL need to undergo another check at POS? (I am asking about the *real* practical reason, not the one we all know about) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns 16 Posted April 1, 2014 You better try to explain how come after a) undergoing an extensive check the first time you get your FID (it took me ~4 months to get my initial FID), b) undergoing similarly extensive checks every time you get new permits (~3 months for me with all the same letters sent to my references etc.) ... you still get DELAYED by NICS, presumably in order to run a couple of EXTRA checks on you... just to tell you a day (or a couple of hours) later that you were approved. This is just completely and simply beyond my understanding... What the h**l is the reason of issuing those P2Ps at all if you STILL need to undergo another check at POS? (I am asking about the *real* practical reason, not the one we all know about) This still blows my mind and I will never understand the reason for this process in this state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deerpark 83 Posted April 14, 2014 I wanted to see how long a background check would take. So I recently ordered one with the fingerprints. Got the results in 2 weeks... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Contrvlr 17 Posted April 15, 2014 This is just completely and simply beyond my understanding... What the h**l is the reason of issuing those P2Ps at all if you STILL need to undergo another check at POS?Simple really, registration Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted April 15, 2014 Simple really, registration And it even says so, on the very form itself - "Permit to Purchase a Handgun and Form of Register" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikka1 2 Posted April 15, 2014 I still don't *really* buy it :-) When you buy a handgun in NJ you still go through "NJ-powered" NICS over the phone / online. ATF form contains all the data on the specific handgun you are buying. It is (at least from outside-in perspective) much easier to gather data centrally in a digital form than go through hundreds of P2P copies, sometimes with terrible handwriting, to compile what can be much easier compiled using NICS checks. I seriously don't get the point of "paper" P2Ps at least for sales through FFLs... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted April 15, 2014 I still don't *really* buy it :-) When you buy a handgun in NJ you still go through "NJ-powered" NICS over the phone / online. ATF form contains all the data on the specific handgun you are buying. It is (at least from outside-in perspective) much easier to gather data centrally in a digital form than go through hundreds of P2P copies, sometimes with terrible handwriting, to compile what can be much easier compiled using NICS checks. I seriously don't get the point of "paper" P2Ps at least for sales through FFLs... The P2P is issued and collected (normally) by the "local PD" (or local NJSP Barracks) of the registrant. That's their record. I don't believe the local PD is part of any NICS checking at the point of purchase. Thus, they wouldn't even know you purchased a weapon if they didn't receive their copy of the P2P at some later point from the FFL, unless the NJ NICS process also sent them an alert, somehow. Not sure how, though. I don't think the local PD or P2P info. is input for a NJ NICS check (can FFL's here verify please?)... So, the P2P is the local PD's registration data point. NICS (including NJ NICS), I believe is simply the final check of eligibility for a weapon (mostly for the FFL's benefit) before the weapon is physically handed over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,927 Posted April 15, 2014 It is really simple. The purpose of the multiple layers of permits and checks discourages many people from becoming firearms owners. This is seen as a good thing by the powers that be. Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted April 15, 2014 The complicated and lengthy FPID and P2P process is wasteful. The State of NJ can save millions of dollars and have the same record keeping system by changing the following: 1. Do away with current FPID and P2P process at local level 2. Only require a Government Issued Photo ID to purchase a firearm 3. All firearm transfers go through a dealer [PK90 covers head] 4. NICS is run through the FBI, not the NJSP 5. Quad Permit is given to dealer to fill out to be sent to NJSP BTW, no specific firearm info is given to NICS. All info is kept with dealer on the 4473. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted April 15, 2014 The complicated and lengthy FPID and P2P process is wasteful. The State of NJ can save millions of dollars and have the same record keeping system by changing the following: 1. Do away with current FPID and P2P process at local level 3. Only require a Government Issued Photo ID to purchase a firearm 3. All firearm transfers go through a dealer [PK90 covers head] 4. NICS is run through the FBI, not the NJSP 5. Quad Permit is given to dealer to fill out to be sent to NJSP One concern in re: item 3).... eh... 2) I think... - If there must be a "firearm owner" designation on that Govt. ID I'd have an issue, as many others (whom I'd not want to know I am a gun owner) demand that govt. ID as poof of identity. I'd prefer a separate card. BTW, no specific firearm info is given to NICS. All info is kept with dealer on the 4473. Just as easy for the ATF to come in and photo capture the book anyway, no? Certainly of the big Internet dealers, etc.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted April 16, 2014 This is not an ideal process. It is one that the State could live with. State: Millions of dollars are saved, and all handguns are still registered. People: No P2P or FPID waiting period. Sent from an undisclosed location. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polak 3 Posted April 29, 2014 Here's my take on it. They do this to discourage people from applying. To have some "calm down" time (although you probably own multiple guns already). There's no way they can be making money from this especially to cover the costs of operation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358 Posted April 29, 2014 "The power to tax is the power to destroy". You can kill any right or freedom if you layer enough bureaucracy, paperwork, or taxes on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dachu3 0 Posted April 29, 2014 Since the NICS is electronic, NSA captures all the communication and stores it. Therefore, a national registry already exists but is not officially legal. That's my take on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blacksmythe 71 Posted April 30, 2014 I think they role Yahtzee dice to determine the length of time for things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikka1 2 Posted April 30, 2014 Since the NICS is electronic, NSA captures all the communication and stores it. Therefore, a national registry already exists but is not officially legal. That's my take on it. Well, that's what I pretty much wanted to say in message 16 above, but you clearly put it in a more explicit way, LOL ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dachu3 0 Posted April 30, 2014 Maybe it is shared with BATFE or not.. We just don't know.. it is very easy to share a database with any of the federal/state agencies as it is electronic. Also, if you purchase anything privately and then announce it via phone/forum/facebook/etc about it, then it's also probably put on the list. Pretty Orwellian, ha? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted April 30, 2014 Put your tin foil hats away. No place for it here. As stated earlier, there is no firearm information given out during a NICS check. There is no data base kept for long guns by the Feds or the NJSP. Throw out your COEs and permits. There is no requirement to keep them. Yes, the NJSP keeps a record of maybe half of the handguns that change hands by NJ residents. That is it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
younggun93 5 Posted May 5, 2014 I just applied for one, and i did it online and the back ground check cost me $20? does that sound right? I thought they were only $5 per permit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted May 5, 2014 no, the background check was $18 money order but now online adds a $2 convience charge, individual permits cost $2 each when you pick them up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites