Smokin .50 1,907 Posted June 29, 2015 Smoking 50, It was not a quip, simply a question. The reason I asked is because I thought you may be privy to some information or statute of NJ gun law regarding transport outside exempted areas that I am unaware of. Normally I would not have asked a question but due to the circumstances one may encounter transporting a gun in this Godforsaken state, I thought it best to get a clarification from you. Now that I see your response, I am sorry I asked. Thanks......Tom Sorry. Didn't mean to "ruffle feathers". I'm not privy to any "inside info" or "brand-new info" either. I merely won't quote law verbatim because a. I'm not a lawyer and b. it makes my arthritis hurt too much. So please accept my apology for being a little too terse. The first beer is on me (I'm really NOT a Pompous Ass). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TR20 47 Posted June 29, 2015 Sorry. Didn't mean to "ruffle feathers". I'm not privy to any "inside info" or "brand-new info" either. I merely won't quote law verbatim because a. I'm not a lawyer and b. it makes my arthritis hurt too much. So please accept my apology for being a little too terse. The first beer is on me (I'm really NOT a Pompous Ass). No worries, apology warmly accepted ...all is well. The second beer is on me! Thanks! Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted June 29, 2015 So just to clear up the details I purchased all the guns here in NJ. The guns of course being mentioned are hand guns, (she doesn't like my rifles) And one gun in particular which is a Ruger Single 10, she enjoys shooting that one over anything else I own. As far as waiting, she's ok with that for the range but I have shown her how to load and protect herself with all of my guns. I'd like to get a single ten myself, lol! I own a Ruger .357 Blackhawk. Made in '76 (my Dad bought it). Dad died in '82, so it passed to Mom, who gave it to me. Mom passed in '95, so if I needed to produce "paperwork" all I have is a death certificate that's 20 years old this month.............. Like I said, there's often nuance to some of these answers, lol! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Underdog 1,593 Posted June 29, 2015 Ok not to be a smart @$$, if she legally can not use a hand gun registered to me why is it ok for her to rent and shoot a hand gun owned and registered to the range? Again I'm not trying to start a fight just wondering. The key is that you have to be present. She can use your gun at the range for target practice, but you have to be present. As far as a "transfer" in your home. You are responsible, largely, for anything that happens in your home with you and your guns, so , if you add an additional layer, she would certainly not be less responsible if it was your gun. It is just another layer that an eager prosecutor can pursue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jag07 0 Posted June 29, 2015 This thread brought up some things I was unaware of or misinterpreted. I didn't realize that whole point of the original posters question. I had thought the FPID was simply for purchases (hence the P) and not anything to do with possession of a handgun and/or long gun. i.e. my spouse/gf/buddy/brother driving my firearm in their car to meet me at the range would be illegal in the event they were found to have the firearm (accident, search, etc...) This problem has never occured but seems strange to me. since it isn't a license to possess a firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted June 30, 2015 It's New Jersey. A good rule of thumb is that if you have to ask, the answer is probably "No." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted June 30, 2015 This thread brought up some things I was unaware of or misinterpreted. I didn't realize that whole point of the original posters question. I had thought the FPID was simply for purchases (hence the P) and not anything to do with possession of a handgun and/or long gun. i.e. my spouse/gf/buddy/brother driving my firearm in their car to meet me at the range would be illegal in the event they were found to have the firearm (accident, search, etc...) This problem has never occured but seems strange to me. since it isn't a license to possess a firearm. The FPID is a purchase ID but it is a license to carry a long gun, unloaded, anywhere that it's legal. It means nothing for handguns except that many cops probably think it means you're allowed to have guns in the car to/from a range/smith/hunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,326 Posted June 30, 2015 As long as my wife had a FPID card and followed the laws for transport, I would not have a problem with her taking OUR gun to the range!!! Besides, there is no mandatory registration of guns in the PRNJ. And ZERO cases where a a spouse was charged for using at the range, a gun bought by the other spouse! As pointed out earlier in this thread, many have guns they purchased out of state and brought to NJ when they moved here. NJ has no record who owns that gun or any gun willed. Either way, if my wife was on the way to a range with my guns, with her FPID card and following the laws of transport and got pulled over for a tail light out. The LEO in NOT going to investigate the serial #s of any of her guns to see if her husband bought them! That is just plain silly!!! Again..Marital property! He or she may have purchased the gun, but it is now jointly owned! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted June 30, 2015 Its not driving to the range it is an illegal transfer that is the issue. There is even some legal uncertainty of a wife using a husbands gun in self defense at home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
InFamous 311 Posted June 30, 2015 Its not driving to the range it is an illegal transfer that is the issue. There is even some legal uncertainty of a wife using a husbands gun in self defense at home. Wife using husband's handgun to shoot an intruder with husband home...that's ok since she's using his gun in his presence. What about wife using husbands gun when husband is out of town? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
InFamous 311 Posted June 30, 2015 HAHA! Trust me I already know the answer, but the conversation is so fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
68chris 20 Posted June 30, 2015 can she go to the range by herself with one of my handguns or does she need to have her own? Thanks, Sam Everyone posting is telling the OP that he can not. They are quoting the "illegal transfer of firearms" rule. I do not agree. I think the wife can take the gun to the range. If the traveling to the range is an "exempted" activity, then all of the rules about firearms, including temporary transfers, should not apply. The only caveat is that the users of the guns must live in the same house because the exemption reads, " from place of residence to range" So..... a husband and wife residing in the same place of residence should be able to enjoy the exemption. A father and son, or daughter residing in the same residence should be able to enjoy the exemption. Two roomates, residing in the same residence should be able to enjoy the exemption. A friend who lives down the street can NOT swing by your place and borrow your gun to go to range. He can not enjoy the exemption because he would not be going "directly from his place of residence to the range" Without the protection of the "exemption" he now violates the illegal temporary transfer rule. thoughts?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted June 30, 2015 No, but ...... who would know or care? I change my answer to 68chris' reply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted June 30, 2015 Everyone posting is telling the OP that he can not. They are quoting the "illegal transfer of firearms" rule. I do not agree. I think the wife can take the gun to the range. If the traveling to the range is an "exempted" activity, then all of the rules about firearms, including temporary transfers, should not apply. The only caveat is that the users of the guns must live in the same house because the exemption reads, " from place of residence to range" So..... a husband and wife residing in the same place of residence should be able to enjoy the exemption. A father and son, or daughter residing in the same residence should be able to enjoy the exemption. Two roomates, residing in the same residence should be able to enjoy the exemption. A friend who lives down the street can NOT swing by your place and borrow your gun to go to range. He can not enjoy the exemption because he would not be going "directly from his place of residence to the range" Without the protection of the "exemption" he now violates the illegal temporary transfer rule. thoughts?? The law is very clear on transfers. They are permanent or temporary. It then goes on to define what a temporary transfer is. Just because a husband and wife have a financial stake in a marital asset does not mean they both own the firearm as far a the laws on gun ownership apply. What I believe is pretty much what you say. If a gun is in the home, everyone in the home ought to be able to use it and in fact, that's the law(lack thereof actually) in most of the states in the union. NJ is not one of those states. Now, taking the example to the absurd extent, suppose a couple moves in from a different state with "paperless" guns. Bob bought all the guns but there's no documentation because they were bought in private sales in Ohio. Can Mary take the guns to the range? Legally, no. Could they prove it? No, probably not. Would they bother? No, probably not. That still doesn't make it legal, it just makes it pretty much impossible to prosecute. That said, they probably wouldn't charge Mary with illegal possession. They'd come up with something else, get her to plea it out, pay a hefty fine and confiscate the gun as evidence for the next 20 years, ultimately "accidentally" losing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperSixOne 4 Posted June 30, 2015 K Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
68chris 20 Posted June 30, 2015 The law is very clear on transfers. They are permanent or temporary. It then goes on to define what a temporary t. The "exemption" exempts you from all of the laws, including the one that reads possesion of a handgun without first obtaining a license to carry is a crime. Exempt is exempt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boo 6 Posted June 30, 2015 By your reasoning, I can rob a gun store, and I'm exempt as long as I bring the guns straight home without any unnecessary deviations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted June 30, 2015 The "exemption" exempts you from all of the laws, including the one that reads possesion of a handgun without first obtaining a license to carry is a crime. Exempt is exempt. There are no exemptions to transfers. They delineate how they occur, including "paperless" when it comes to inheritance et. al.. The Possession may be exempt, the transfer wasn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted June 30, 2015 ^^^^There ARE exemptions to "temporary transfers". Said exemptions allow them to take place at gun ranges for instance, otherwise they'd be illegal. But it's good to see everyone is thinking and reading the exemptions! What's really mind-boggling is reading a news story about an attempted rape in Free America that was thwarted by someone "loaning" or "giving" a hand gun to a potential victim and then said victim shoots the bad guy that broke into her house to rape her and the bad guy goes away and she gets her gun back! (Oh wait---that's an answer for the "Aren't you happy Christie is gonna fix the gun laws" thread....) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted June 30, 2015 ^^^^There ARE exemptions to "temporary transfers". Said exemptions allow them to take place at gun ranges for instance, otherwise they'd be illegal. But it's good to see everyone is thinking and reading the exemptions! What's really mind-boggling is reading a news story about an attempted rape in Free America that was thwarted by someone "loaning" or "giving" a hand gun to a potential victim and then said victim shoots the bad guy that broke into her house to rape her and the bad guy goes away and she gets her gun back! (Oh wait---that's an answer for the "Aren't you happy Christie is gonna fix the gun laws" thread....) The temporary transfer is defined, it is the exemption for permanent transfers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Worn_Holster 2 Posted June 30, 2015 If by some twist of fate a NJ LE officer that doesn't understand the complicated NJ firearm regulations pulls her over and finds a pistol in her possession, she would likely be arrested and left with an expensive lawyer and the NJ court system to figure out if she was violating the law or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted June 30, 2015 Riddle me this. What law or exemption allows a NJ gun dealer who does not have a range, or an individual who is not a dealer, to hand a potential purchaser a firearm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD2K 115 Posted June 30, 2015 Is the issue that NJ considers possession an illegal transfer? Not trying to be a wise guy, it just never occurred to me that this would be an issue. In a word, YES! But as I previously posted, there is ZERO case law where a wife was arrested or charged for transporting tangible personal property (even GUNS!), the value of which would be split in a divorce! Exactly it's considered an illegal transfer. But re: transporting who wants to take that chance in NJ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted July 2, 2015 Riddle me this. What law or exemption allows a NJ gun dealer who does not have a range, or an individual who is not a dealer, to hand a potential purchaser a firearm?Not a transfer. No law required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted July 2, 2015 Not a transfer. No law required. Exactly. See where I am going? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickySantoro 211 Posted July 3, 2015 if she happens to get pulled over, get in accident, have medical emergency etc.. and the guns are discovered shes in a world of hurt. You are not the ones going to be dealing with the consequences so don't give bad advice. We are talking Handguns here not long guns. As shitty as it is, thems the brakes kiddo. How would they be discovered if they are in the trunk? The dumb pig shit that passes for law enforcement here in New Jerky isn't psychic. Psychotic yes, psychic no. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted July 4, 2015 How would they be discovered if they are in the trunk? The dumb pig shit that passes for law enforcement here in New Jerky isn't psychic. Psychotic yes, psychic no. Really? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin125 4,772 Posted July 4, 2015 Easy there Nicky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites