45Doll 5,877 Posted January 5, 2016 Discuss like adults..... Do NOT make me move this thread..... I for one will. If anyone's looking for the Children's Discussion, go to NJ.com. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted January 5, 2016 So far, the analyses I have read and listened to seem to agree that everything he's going to try is either a re-statement of existing law, or re-enforcement of existing law (which should have been done anyway), with one exception. The re-definition of 'being in the business' of selling guns can potentially cut off private gun sales (legally) if the definition is brought down to one gun. Re-defining law is something he cannot constitutionally do, but he's going to try. I've never sold a firearm, and don't plan to. So I'm not upset for myself. But at the national level this is ominous and must be neutralized. Add: According to Andrew Napolitano these are all empty words until someone is actually prosecuted on the basis of the EO. Then it will be tested in court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted January 5, 2016 Yes Nick, i have read that. My question would be will the ATF have subsequent statements reflecting Obama's EO, or is this the actual reflection of the EO policy? I don't think so, but time will tell. I also noticed this in the preamble: "The guidance set forth herein has no regulatory effect and is not intended to create or confer any rights, privileges, or benefits in any matter, case, or proceeding, see United States v. Caceres, 440 U.S. 741 (1979)." In other words, like the NJSP advise on firearms law, don't count on it for legal protection? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted January 5, 2016 a Retired head of ATF agent said..... it is all meaningless ..... Anything he proposed will not increase the amount of background checks..... This was just a media circus.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted January 5, 2016 My read is NJ is exempt from all this BS as by having a FID card you have passed a background check. Just really have to define how many you can sell. When would all this go into effect? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,434 Posted January 5, 2016 Agreed, and understood. I guess I have to hope that no private citizen would ever be able to afford a Tomahawk. Modern Technology, huh? We have a similar problem with "surveillance technology" and the Govt./LEO use of it invading the privacy of citizens. Second Amendment says we have a right to bear arms. Assuming a cruise missile falls under the definition of 'arms', you would still have to be able to carry it to be covered. Half /s. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted January 5, 2016 Reductio ad absurdum LOL I would certainly hope so, but I would not put it past some people to acquire one if they could afford it. I know quite a few who could... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted January 5, 2016 Second Amendment says we have a right to bear arms. Assuming a cruise missile falls under the definition of 'arms', you would still have to be able to carry it to be covered. Also to "keep" them, which might imply storage at one's home. But yes, the critical definition is, what are "arms" for 2A purposes? Some are saying nukes et al, are not "arms" (read: "firearms") in that context. We'll see... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted January 5, 2016 It was all about nothing..... Everyone interviewed on MSNBC after the speech said...... All Obama did was restate current law..... Nothing will change.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted January 5, 2016 a Retired head of ATF agent said..... it is all meaningless ..... Anything he proposed will not increase the amount of background checks..... This was just a media circus.... It was all about nothing..... Everyone interviewed on MSNBC after the speech said...... All Obama did was restate current law..... Nothing will change.... Ah, but it was something, setting up the Democrats for a sweep in November. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted January 5, 2016 Ah, but it was something, setting up the Democrats for a sweep in November. True...... the tears will tug at the heart strings of some of the fence sitters..... Time will tell..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted January 5, 2016 Ah, but it was something, setting up the Democrats for a sweep in November. Or possibly to be swept under the rug. I don't believe gun control is a winning issue for Democrats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted January 5, 2016 My read is NJ is exempt from all this BS as by having a FID card you have passed a background check. Are you saying you don't need a background check to buy from a dealer? This is about selling, not about buying. But I agree that SO FAR it seems this is just a restatement of current ATF policy. We shall see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted January 5, 2016 Hmm - sell too many, need an FFL. Ok - apply to be an FFL, guess what - Once an FFL, no longer need background checks for each gun purchased, OGAM no longer applies, hi cap mags - ok... Is this REALLY what he wants? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted January 5, 2016 just released from ATF, guidelines on when u need a license https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted January 5, 2016 Hmm - sell too many, need an FFL. Ok - apply to be an FFL, guess what - Once an FFL, no longer need background checks for each gun purchased, OGAM no longer applies, hi cap mags - ok... Is this REALLY what he wants? They are trying to make the FFL license a Federal gun registry and know who has what and where. Remember dealers have to retain all this info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted January 5, 2016 Are you saying you don't need a background check to buy from a dealer? This is about selling, not about buying. But I agree that SO FAR it seems this is just a restatement of current ATF policy. We shall see. Hey numb nuts! We all know you need a background check when you fill out a 4473. What I'm saying is if you have a NJ FID Card you have had a background and mental health check. So... you may be exempt from getting an additional background check for a prospective buyer in a private sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 5, 2016 They are trying to make the FFL license a Federal gun registry and know who has what and where. Remember dealers have to retain all this info. Exactly Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted January 5, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center "....Regardless of the storage method, and whether access to the detail A/D record is automated or manual, this system is precisely a system of registration of firearms, firearm owners and firearm transactions specifically prohibited by 18 U.S.C. 926(a)...." "....Once the out-of-business records are fully converted, search time for these records will be reduced significantly. The conference agreement includes $4,200,000 for the ATF to hire additional contract personnel to continue the conversion and integration of records....". Many FFLs I know started to keep electronic records, instead of handwritten paperwork. Confiscation doesn't need manpower. It simply requires a "common sense" laws to increase population that falls into "felon" category. Once thats done, watch friends, relatives, neighbors call in, all in the name of being good guys. How else the likes of Hitler achieved what they wanted ? They used regular Joe innate psychological need to be "good guys", against each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted January 5, 2016 Do not kid yourself they already know and nothing will ever be done about it. They neither have the manpower nor the will for outright confiscation. Then put a flashider on your rifle, drill a sear hole, and install a full auto fire a control group. Yeah, that's what I thought. Guess what? Your guns been confiscated. And when they pass the next law, you get rid of the ones you have now too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted January 5, 2016 ^^^ Agreed. Generational war it is and every bit lost today helps them bring next generation closer to their goal of what AUS / GB has become (atleast on surface). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted January 5, 2016 Listen to his speech from noon today, besides the crocodile tears he outright said these things take years, aka generations. Your children are being "trained" to be the sheeple of tomorrow, teach them at home to think for themselves. Education in the USA today is a liberal's best wet dream. Want to turn this country around? Mandatory two year military service after high school. Show them the real world up front and personal, they will be the best citizens any country could have. This pussification has to stop. Kennedy who poop in his pants to see what his Democrats have turned into. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeL 3 Posted January 5, 2016 The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS or “the Department”) is issuing this final rule to modify the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule to expressly permit certain HIPAA covered entities to disclose to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) the identities of individuals who are subject to a Federal “mental health prohibitor” that disqualifies them from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm. And of course no mention as to what that "mental health prohibitor" is. Terrorist watch list 2.0. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fslater 62 Posted January 6, 2016 Want to turn this country around? Mandatory two year military service after high school. Show them the real world up front and personal, they will be the best citizens any country could have. This pussification has to stop. Kennedy who poop in his pants to see what his Democrats have turned into. I'm probably going to catch a lot of flack for saying what I'm going to but.... I went to Army jump school in 73 and it was tough. 83 (after they opened up jump school to women) six year after I got out of the army, I joined army reserve 12th SFG..... Seeing what they were graduating from jump school at that time sickened me. I'm not saying no woman could have made it through the program I went to, but the standards had obviously been lowered. Making military service mandatory in our PC climate I fear would turn the army into a summer camp for twinkies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Boy 6 Posted January 6, 2016 If you want to see and read the "Dog & Pony" that Obama & the anti's put on today ... which you'll never see or read in the US news media ... click on what the British Online Mail posted today ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384188/Obama-announce-executive-orders-guns-quite-soon-says-White-House-charges-lawmakers-utterly-failed-responsibility-act.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted January 6, 2016 If you want to see and read the "Dog & Pony" that Obama & the anti's put on today ... which you'll never see or read in the US news media ... click on what the British Online Mail posted today ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384188/Obama-announce-executive-orders-guns-quite-soon-says-White-House-charges-lawmakers-utterly-failed-responsibility-act.html See the 3rd and 4th pic. While Mr. Obama is putting out crocodile tears, a lady in the background is all smiles, so is Gabby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 6, 2016 I noticed a few cocky smirks by the women behind him during the speech Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted January 6, 2016 Every time this BS comes up, I (almost) want to make an ultimate reasonable offer. * Run full background checks on me every month. In fact run it all day, every day. * Keep record of all firearms I own. In exchange, * Admit the right to keep and bear is individual right of every Citizen who is not incarcerated * I exercise that right the way I see fit without any limitations That's reasonable right ? :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites