Redlines 202 Posted August 24, 2017 http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/08/24/prominent-gun-rights-group-we-wont-defend-the-presence-of-firearms-at-protests/#comment-15003092 Seems they do not want people to be armed. Wow an organization that is about guns yet does not want you to carry one. They are carried not to intimidate but to protect you from the bad guys. Looks like they do not get it. On other sites people are saying they will not give them anymore donations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,812 Posted August 24, 2017 As usual in the era of clickbait "news" stories meets gnat-level attention spans, the whole story has not been communicated: Quote The quote was a partial statement and was not in its total context. The belief of the foundation is that if you want to bring a firearm to a protest with the intent of using it to provoke a violent reaction we cannot support that. We absolutely believe (especially in light of current events) if one feels like they must attend one of these events that protecting themselves is vital. By no means does SAF support any laws that would prohibit people from legally bringing firearms to gatherings. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,434 Posted August 24, 2017 I'll be honest, I'm mixed on the topic. Yes Opencarry is a right but it's important to chose when to exercise that right. Perhaps at a highly controversial protest is not the place. Can't be tonedef about the optics and the impact to PR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 24, 2017 You think this is a bad thing? These idiots protesting are out of control. Imagine what they'd do if they were armed and what the outcome will be. It WILL be the next shot heard around the world. Nothing could come from it that is good. Further, SAF would lose all credibility. Most likely, say goodbye to the 2A. Libs would use everything they could as an excuse to destroy us. Alan made the right decision. If you no longer wish to support them, shame on you.PS: They are not going anti gun. Don't spread that. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,157 Posted August 24, 2017 Yeah, I'm with the 2 posters above... I've had my own concerns. I mean, there wasn't even ONE gunshot, and somehow the left has managed to tie this to the need for gun control! Can you imagine if just ONE open-carry "militia" member, even in self-defense, actually pulls out a gun at one of these protests and shoots somebody? What an epic disaster that would be! I don't even want to think how far the tentacles of a situation like that would reach. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redlines 202 Posted August 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said: Yeah, I'm with the 2 posters above... I've had my own concerns. I mean, there wasn't even ONE gunshot, and somehow the left has managed to tie this to the need for gun control! Can you imagine if just ONE open-carry "militia" member, even in self-defense, actually pulls out a gun at one of these protests and shoots somebody? What an epic disaster that would be! I don't even want to think how far the tentacles of a situation like that would reach. So it would be better for Antifa to beat you to death then for you to defend yourself against a rabid mob. After all they violently attack anyone that has an opposing view like Trump supporters. If you truly believe in the 2nd you should be allowed to carry anywhere any time no questions. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,157 Posted August 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, Redlines said: So it would be better for Antifa to beat you to death then for you to defend yourself against a rabid mob. After all they violently attack anyone that has an opposing view like Trump supporters. If you truly believe in the 2nd you should be allowed to carry anywhere any time no questions. I'm not discounting your argument in theory... but I'm just asking, pragmatically speaking, when these open-carry militia members make a conscious choice to put themselves in situations where they get linked in the press to Nazis and the KKK, is that really the best way to promote open-carry or the 2A in general? Don't they realize those kinds of protests are power kegs just looking for a match? Don't they realize that the social and political "blowback" of a shooting would be so devastating that it would undermine the very things they claim to support? Like it or not, whatever they do and whatever accidents or problems occur will reflect on all gun owners. I think once they realized who were the ugly players arranging the Charlottesville protest, they should have just walked away. Who knows? Maybe it would have forced the local politicians/police to handle things better than they did. Instead, these militia people are throwing themselves into situations that can go bad a thousand different ways - and taking those risks for what? For a bunch of white supremacists? Seriously? Just because they have the RIGHT to do it, doesn't make it wise strategy. That's all I'm saying. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,664 Posted August 24, 2017 Are we seriously debating this? We teach our kids this before kindergarten: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." On a different note - if you are going to any kind of rally/protest/march/etc... and you see KKK or swastikas, that's a clue to about face and go home. All your presence does is add credence to those awful people. Standing shoulder to shoulder with a brown shirt or a white sheet will never ever help our cause. 13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted August 24, 2017 1 minute ago, High Exposure said: Are we seriously debating this? We teach our kids this before kindergarten: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." if you are going to any kind of rally/protest/march/etc... and you see KKK or swastikas, that's a clue to about face and go home. This 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 24, 2017 So it would be better for Antifa to beat you to death then for you to defend yourself against a rabid mob. After all they violently attack anyone that has an opposing view like Trump supporters. If you truly believe in the 2nd you should be allowed to carry anywhere any time no questions.The answer to that is nobody that does not want to protest peacefully should be there. Period! Beings that is not the case, pure mayhem will break out. Your logic will destroy everyone's rights. Not the dumb bastards that are doing this crap! Cause they don't care.Let leo or whatever stop them. We, the smart, do not cast the first stone nor fire the first or maybe even the second round. We strategize. Don't open up pandoras box! We will all regret it.If you feel that your statement stands, then by all means, join the protest lines with your weapon. We will just watch with peanuts and popcorn.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProPS: why do people here continuously fight against groups on our side? Someone said it a few times. We tend to eat our young.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redlines 202 Posted August 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, bhunted said: Let leo or whatever stop them. We, the smart, do not cast the first stone nor fire the first or maybe even the second round. We strategize. Don't open up pandoras box! We will all regret it. If you feel that your statement stands, then by all means, join the protest lines with your weapon. We will just watch with peanuts and popcorn. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro You do realize that the police have no legal obligation to protect you. They are not there to serve and protect as most people think. You could just be at a political rally and be attacked violently because someone does not like what you stand for. Not everyone at a political rally is a nazi. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redlines 202 Posted August 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said: I'm not discounting your argument in theory... but I'm just asking, pragmatically speaking, when these open-carry militia members make a conscious choice to put themselves in situations where they get linked in the press to Nazis and the KKK, is that really the best way to promote open-carry or the 2A in general? Don't they realize those kinds of protests are power kegs just looking for a match? Don't they realize that the social and political "blowback" of a shooting would be so devastating that it would undermine the very things they claim to support? Like it or not, whatever they do and whatever accidents or problems occur will reflect on all gun owners. I think once they realized who were the ugly players arranging the Charlottesville protest, they should have just walked away. Who knows? Maybe it would have forced the local politicians/police to handle things better than they did. Instead, these militia people are throwing themselves into situations that can go bad a thousand different ways - and taking those risks for what? For a bunch of white supremacists? Seriously? Just because they have the RIGHT to do it, doesn't make it wise strategy. That's all I'm saying. Not all protesters at a rally are militia members, some armed people are just protesters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,434 Posted August 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Redlines said: Not all protesters at a rally are militia members, some armed people are just protesters. Her point still stands. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted August 24, 2017 hook, line, and sinker completely The public isn't swallowing the administration's policies hook, line, and sinker. They made up such a goodstory that we fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Usage notes: often used in the forms fall for something hook, line, and sinker or swallow something hook, line,and sinker (to be tricked into believing something without any doubts) Etymology: based on the idea of a fish so hungry it swallows the hook (the part that catches the fish), the line ( the string)and the sinker (a weight attached to the line to keep it under water) Anti-2A setup a nice trap and almost everyone is walking into it...nicely done. And let this sink in a bit... ---------- The Pink Pistols, a pro-gun LGBT group, believes legislation barring firearms at protests is counter intuitive to their mission of arming gays for self-defense. ----------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted August 25, 2017 Just watch, any new legislative ideas to relax gun laws will now be met with comments such as, "Trump arms Alt-righ Neo-Nazis.", "Trump makes it easier for Nazis to harm the general public", Yadda Yadda Do you want Nazis carrying in your state? That will be the new question.... we're no longer cowboys trying to re-establish the wild west... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJG 253 Posted August 25, 2017 Apparently, has already been done http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/police-say-bruce-post-iii-arrested-neo-nazi-beliefs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 25, 2017 Why am I thinking NY subway vigilante? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted August 25, 2017 If the law allows open carry why not? The militia members who were well armed in Charlottesville may have prevented further violence by Antifa in the videos I saw. Also where are all the pictures of the Neo-Nazis and KKK members in Charlottesville during the Unite the Right Rally that everyone keeps talking about? Was it this KKK group that Time Magazine said was in Charlottesville two weekends ago? Because while that photo was from Charlottesville it was taken over a month earlier during an actual Klan Rally http://mashable.com/2017/08/14/pictures-charlottesville-white-supremacist-ku-klux-klan/#8jflR5DrEqqx Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 25, 2017 Not all protesters at a rally are militia members, some armed people are just protesters.Seriously? You've been here since 2014 and a couple hundred messages later, are trying to teach me something? Just how old are you now and haven't you learned anything in the past few years. Including not preaching to the choir? Egadz.[emoji848]Get real.... you are super late to the party.[emoji37]Just because you can does not mean you should. Common sense must prevail.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redlines 202 Posted August 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, bhunted said: Seriously? You've been here since 2014 and a couple hundred messages later, are trying to teach me something? Just how old are you now and haven't you learned anything in the past few years. Including not preaching to the choir? Egadz. Get real.... you are super late to the party. Just because you can does not mean you should. Common sense must prevail. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Not trying to teach you anything . Let's just agree that we disagree. I have been here a lot longer then 2014. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted August 25, 2017 hook, line, and sinker completely The public isn't swallowing the administration's policies hook, line, and sinker. They made up such a goodstory that we fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Usage notes: often used in the forms fall for something hook, line, and sinker or swallow something hook, line,and sinker (to be tricked into believing something without any doubts) Etymology: based on the idea of a fish so hungry it swallows the hook (the part that catches the fish), the line ( the string)and the sinker (a weight attached to the line to keep it under water) Anti-2A setup a nice trap and almost everyone is walking into it...nicely done. And let this sink in a bit... ----------The Pink Pistols, a pro-gun LGBT group, believes legislation barring firearms at protests is counter intuitive to their mission of arming gays for self-defense.-----------I don't understand? What administration and what stories? Also what does Pink Pistols being against laws banning firearms at rallies mean? I truly don't understand not being argumentative. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted August 25, 2017 to me, open carry is open carry. whether you're out protesting/counter protesting or shopping for milk, it's all the same. protected under 2A. and i do agree with the comment above that i think a lot of violence from the antifa-types was prevented because some of the protesters were well armed. it's one thing to set fires to cars and smash windows when a bunch of bookworm berkeley professors are watching. quite another to incite violence when half the crowd is armed. anyway, exactly none of this matters to me as i live in new jersey and have to beg for permission to buy a handgun so i can lock it in a safe and never let it see the light of day. actually, strike everything i said above. i'm 100% a u.s. citizen, and if i can't open carry, then nobody should be able to open carry. you should not have any more rights than i do because you live in virginia and i live in nj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted August 25, 2017 Some of the arguments in this thread seem to be against carrying period at a rally for say protesting the removal of a Stonewall Jackson Statue. That one should either go unarmed or not go. Is that what some feel?Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 25, 2017 to me, open carry is open carry. whether you're out protesting/counter protesting or shopping for milk, it's all the same. protected under 2A. and i do agree with the comment above that i think a lot of violence from the antifa-types was prevented because some of the protesters were well armed. it's one thing to set fires to cars and smash windows when a bunch of bookworm berkeley professors are watching. quite another to incite violence when half the crowd is armed. anyway, exactly none of this matters to me as i live in new jersey and have to beg for permission to buy a handgun so i can lock it in a safe and never let it see the light of day. actually, strike everything i said above. i'm 100% a u.s. citizen, and if i can't open carry, then nobody should be able to open carry. you should not have any more rights than i do because you live in virginia and i live in njSo then what would happen if both sides were armed and we end up having the proverbial Waco scenario?I'll say it again. Because you can doesn't mean you should.Next time you may end up looking down a barrel.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 25, 2017 Some of the arguments in this thread seem to be against carrying period at a rally for say protesting the removal of a Stonewall Jackson Statue. That one should either go unarmed or not go. Is that what some feel?Sent from my XT1585 using TapatalkNo..... not what I said. First I would never deny constitutional rights.I'll say it a 3rd time. Because you can doesn't mean you should.Chest pounding with your weapons in a heated public gathering is dangerous. Another question. Are they just chest pounding because its there right and if so, are they prepared to fire first or receive the first shot? Or just gun toting pussies. Militia or not. So I cannot believe that anyone's argument here is about rights. Will you die for a statue? I'll take a bullet for my family as well as my dog. Maybe even best friend. I will stand with law enforcement once more if they'd have me. But it will be defending life and limb. Not bronze and concrete.Think about it folks.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted August 25, 2017 I didn't think you were for laws outlawing carrying at rallies[mention=5135]bhunted[/mention], but is your personal feeling that one shouldn't carry to a rally? Just asking a question. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,434 Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Zeke said: Why am I thinking NY subway vigilante? Because you grew up watching TMNT? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted August 25, 2017 ...drop the mic - close the thread enough said -I disagree. One we shouldn't let White Supremacist Morons hijack rallies. By leaving that is exactly what you would be doing. Two I have yet to see proof they were even in Charlottesville. So far I have only seen Agent Provocateurs. I have seen no pictures of Neo-Nazi, Skinhead, or Aryan Nation members. A good hint is if they are usually covered in Swastika and other ridiculous tattoos. I have however listened to interviews where those on the ground said BLM and "Klan" members were getting off the same buses. Here are some pics I am pretty sure are from the actual rally. Can some one point out the White Supremacists? In the last pic I see 2 morons making a Nazi Salute. Yet no one else is. Wonder why that is? Anyone also wonder why the supposed organizers consist of a comedian being followed by Vice, an anti-gun, Pro-Obama, Occupy Member, and one of the biggest whores on the planet David Duke. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, voyager9 said: Because you grew up watching TMNT? Goetz was a ninja turtle? Must be the new one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 25, 2017 For translation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting#Perpetrator Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites