Need a new Deck

[JackDaWack 2,372]

Our 30+ year old deck is in need of serious replacing. We got a few quotes for a basic 13x20 foot deck, about 10 feet off the ground using all composite Azek material. The cost was jaw dropping, anywhere from 25-30k including dry proofing the underside. Being a rather handy man, I can do a lot of things on my own. Unfortunately, i'm not sure I would take on this entire job myself. At this point, I'm looking to see if anyone here would be willing to or knows of someone who can create a job plan for permit approval and frame out the deck for me. I can take over with finishing the deck from there. Im located in Sussex county around Ogdensburg/Franklin. If the cost is kept low I can pay cash.

I appreciate any help or advice you guys have.

[brucin 582]

I'm not sure if inflation has hit deck building hard but those prices seem very high to me. I had a 20'x24' deck about 9' off the ground replaced 8 years ago with geodeck and it cost $12,000. The contractor who built it in no longer doing work as I called him after Hurricane Sandy to do some repairs to the deck and he was not available.

I would shop around a bit more.

[JackDaWack 2,372]

I priced out materials, and it would be about 7k. so that leave roughly 20k in labor....... yeah that doesn't seem right. However, they are deck specialists, and  their work is very good. But I don't exactly need a work of art. 

Welp, that's why I'm here now, if anyone has a guy or does this stuff would love some input. 

[capt14k 2,043]

Did you price out the railing too? That price sounds about right if it includes the footings too. The price between pressure treated SYP and Trex is about 3-4x higher for Trex. There are cheaper materials but most you get what you pay for.

 

 

Azek makes decking material now?

 

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[JackDaWack 2,372]

Yes, that was with the railing priced out, all Azek build material except the framing. 

[siderman 811]

Sounds pricey but other things come into the cost factor. Demo/disposal, maybe new footings because if its a total tear down the town may want a test hole dug to determine code, attatchment point to the house may need re-siding and flashing chances are the flashing isnt up to code anymore, railing very time consuming, maybe the estimates were a worse case scenario? Are there steps leading to the ground? But still get a few more prices anyway. I will say my 16' x 22' deck is just about 30 yrs old and I built the floor with STK SYP and still in very good shape but I have waterproofed it a few times. I also have other porch, deck areas in cedar and Trex. Cedar is very attractive but soft and I regret the Trex, gets scalding hot roasting in the summer sun.

[1563621 388]

Azek is top $, Frame out with Treated. Use sono-tubes for footings. Print out deck layout to code. Add your name to it, Perfectly legal. price out 2x10 joists. Trex decking & Vinyl rail is where the cost is. 25-30K is out of the correct range. 18K-20K max.

[JackDaWack 2,372]

5 minutes ago, 1563621 said:

Azek is top $, Frame out with Treated. Use sono-tubes for footings. Print out deck layout to code. Add your name to it, Perfectly legal. price out 2x10 joists. Trex decking & Vinyl rail is where the cost is. 25-30K is out of the correct range. 18K-20K max.

I'm kinda at this point right now, I'm about to just do the whole job myself after speaking with a few individuals. A friend just offered to help set the footings and frame it out. 

Deck code is pretty strait forward.

 

 

[capt14k 2,043]

Azek is top $, Frame out with Treated. Use sono-tubes for footings. Print out deck layout to code. Add your name to it, Perfectly legal. price out 2x10 joists. Trex decking & Vinyl rail is where the cost is. 25-30K is out of the correct range. 18K-20K max.

I don't know how Azek deck and rail prices but vinyl rail is cheaper than Trex Rail. The footings play a factor into cost. I know my deck was $20k vs $10k 10 years ago and Trex prices went way up since then. My deck is larger, but that was my cost.

 

Come to think of it labor should be the price of materials without footings. While $7k sounds cheap for the materials if correct deck should be $15k. Does the $7k include the decking clips?

 

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[capt14k 2,043]

You want Azek for the box.

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[1LtCAP 2,674]

holy crap! i had no clue decks were this expensive! i was gonna have one added to the back of my house.....not so sure i wanna spend that kind of loot on one though./....

[JackDaWack 2,372]

5 hours ago, capt14k said:

I don't know how Azek deck and rail prices but vinyl rail is cheaper than Trex Rail. The footings play a factor into cost. I know my deck was $20k vs $10k 10 years ago and Trex prices went way up since then. My deck is larger, but that was my cost.

 

Come to think of it labor should be the price of materials without footings. While $7k sounds cheap for the materials if correct deck should be $15k. Does the $7k include the decking clips?

 

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Not sure if I'm going to use the recessed decking clips, but I didn't include them. My material costs shouldn't break 8k

[JackDaWack 2,372]

So we are going to be replacing the existing structure, nothing more. I'm going to submit plans for permits based on the Design for code acceptance by the American wood council following IRC 2012 revisions. Other than the footings requirements i have not found anything in building codes that falls outside the design criteria. Anyone confirm this is a good point of reference?s

http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/dca/AWC-DCA62012-DeckGuide-1405.pdf2 IRC Version

[capt14k 2,043]

So we are going to be replacing the existing structure, nothing more. I'm going to submit plans for permits based on the Design for code acceptance by the American wood council following IRC 2012 revisions. Other than the footings requirements i have not found anything in building codes that falls outside the design criteria. Anyone confirm this is a good point of reference?s
http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/dca/AWC-DCA62012-DeckGuide-1405.pdf2 IRC Version

No that is not the code followed in NJ. NJ used IRC NJ Ediiton. Go to home depot they have a program that will draw the plan for free. Don't buy lumber or anything else for that matter from Home Depot but let them think you will be. Submit the drawing the computer pops out.


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[JackDaWack 2,372]

We have a good lumber yard, 2 actually within 2 miles of the house. Good idea on having home Depot drawing up the plans. 

I did just find the 2015 IRC NJ edition. No wonder it was tough to find, they dont let you download it. Thanks 

[W2MC 1,627]

On 2/11/2018 at 4:48 PM, siderman said:

 I regret the Trex, gets scalding hot roasting in the summer sun.

I hate trex...yes; hate the stuff...for mainly this reason.  I hav others, but one step on a sun drenched trex deck and you'll hate it too

 

[Alex V 80]

13 hours ago, capt14k said:

 

No that is not the code followed in NJ. NJ used IRC NJ Ediiton. Go to home depot they have a program that will draw the plan for free. Don't buy lumber or anything else for that matter from Home Depot but let them think you will be. Submit the drawing the computer pops out.


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Except for the towns that require the drawings to be Signed and Sealed by an Architect or PE. Then those HD generated plans may as well be toilet paper. 

 

OP, if you need signed and sealed drawings shoot me a PM. I'm a Registered Architect in NJ. 

12 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

We have a good lumber yard, 2 actually within 2 miles of the house. Good idea on having home Depot drawing up the plans. 

I did just find the 2015 IRC NJ edition. No wonder it was tough to find, they dont let you download it. Thanks 

That's cause the ICC charges hundreds of dollars for those books. 

[capt14k 2,043]

Not to hijack the thread, but something else homeowners on here may not be aware of. No longer can towns force you to tear something out that was done without permits. Manalapan and Old Bridge amongst other towns at one time was making even new owners remove finished basements done by the previous owner without permits. This usually came up during CO Inspection when the owner was selling the house. The DCA ruled this practice is not allowed. They can make you take permits and fine you up to $2,000 and 3 years of back taxes (if you did the work without permits), but they can't even make you open walls. They can only inspect for inherently dangerous readily visible.


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[Sir Drake 4]

Just did mine last summer in trex transcend. Your price in the 7-9k range for materials is pretty close. My 12×20 was about 11k in materials including lights stairs and drainage system. Includes the wood and brackets as well.

You can draw out a complete deck plan on the trex.com site for free. I used that for the permit in Vernon. Pretty cool system, you design it all online, add stairs, railings,  add lights, swap colors, etc. When done, get 10 page pdf with material list, 3d image, etc via email.

Had a contractor frame it out and lay the footings, I did everything from the joists North including railings and cap and stair lights (12v plug, no electric permit needed since we had an outdoor outlet already).

The trex transcend is about 90 bucks a 20' board at the place on 23 you mention. The max length is 20', so consider a 2 row picture frame layout. It looks nice, allows you to use the 20' lengths but cut a foot or so off each edge so its square. You do need to build a ladder type PT frame under the end joists for support, but then the layout is easy.

I did the grooved boards with the trex clips. The clips alone will be a few hundred bucks.

I did the trex drain system as well. Pretty slick system, adds about 1000 in materials with trough material, funnels, tape caulk, staples, etc.

The railings are simple, the trex layout designer tells you how many sections are needed and what to buy.  And plenty of you tube videos were helpful. 

I disagree about the trex getting to hot to walk on. It gets warm sure, but a pair of boat shoes or flip flops on those blazing hot days is an option. On an average summer day it's not bad. 100 degrees in direct sun, yeah it, as most composites and even PT wood, will roast your tootsies!

Worth every penny not to have to stain, seal, etc every few years. 

Good luck

 

 

[W2MC 1,627]

22 minutes ago, Sir Drake said:

 

I disagree about the trex getting to hot to walk on. It gets warm sure, but a pair of boat shoes or flip flops on those blazing hot days is an option. On an average summer day it's not bad. 100 degrees in direct sun, yeah it, as most composites and even PT wood, will roast your tootsies!

Worth every penny not to have to stain, seal, etc every few years. 

Good luck

 

 

Um....nope.  If I've got a deck, I want to be able to walk on it barefoot.  I ripped the trex deck off the back of the house and replaced it with pressure treated about 3 years ago.  Now I can walk on the back deck barefoot, which I couldn't with the Trex every sunny day. Does it look 'perfect', like the trex?  Well, no, it doesn't. In fact, this spring I am going to have to treat the deck again.....but its worth it.

 EDIT - additional thoughts..if you DO go with trex, make sure you put it in right.  The previous owner put the trex deck in wrong, and it puckered every time it got hot.  They also used regular (not pressure treated) lumber for the underpinnings, which rotted after a half dozen years.  Do it right with whatever you do.

 

[Sir Drake 4]

The deck we ripped off was about 25 years old, 100% PT. My guess is that it wasn't taken care of too diligently and time took its toll. Nail pops were bad, barefoot was a no go.

Judging from how it looked after that long, and what would be required to maintain, and ultimately replace in 20 or so years factored in to my decision to use trex. Maintenance free except for a power wash once a year. 

Funny you bring that up w2mc, i had the same chat with my neighbor who is replacing his this year. I said I would rather bite the bullet now if it means no maintenance and shoes once in a while. He said he'd rather save the money and bonus was he could be barefoot. The sealing and maintenance was no big deal he said.

So, I told him I'll sit on my deck in shoes and watch him waterseal his deck barefoot lol!

It's all good, I love having a deck, no matter what it's made of!

[Redlines 202]

On 2/11/2018 at 2:28 PM, brucin said:

I'm not sure if inflation has hit deck building hard but those prices seem very high to me. I had a 20'x24' deck about 9' off the ground replaced 8 years ago with geodeck and it cost $12,000. The contractor who built it in no longer doing work as I called him after Hurricane Sandy to do some repairs to the deck and he was not available.

I would shop around a bit more.

He went out of business because his prices were way to cheap.

[Barms 88]

If you want to be really hip and cool,  don’t attach the deck to the hose with a ledger anymore.   Freestanding decks are all the rage if you read most DIY construction chat rooms.   Yes you need more footers but the new wisdom is don’t fasten it to the house.  You leave a small gap for water/snow etc.

[Alex V 80]

Now that the fun is over, Jack, if your township allows the owner to submit drawings, just follow R507 and you should be fine. Use 2,000 psf soil bearing capacity to calculate your footing size unless you have a GeoTech report.  The Code is very prescriptive when it comes to residential construction.  Provide a site plan and you should be good to go.  Also, remember that depending on the composite decking you choose you may need to run joists at 12" OC instead of 16" OC. Their tech specs should have the spacing requirements.  Use Simpson Strong Tie products as much as you can, especially for the railing posts.  They make a real nice tension bracket to satisfy R301.5.  If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.  

[JackDaWack 2,372]

I don't need an engineer seal if I do it myself luckily. If we hired a contractor the seal is required. 

 

 

[Sir Drake 4]

Yep, agreed. It is one of those things that you don't want to get half way through and find out you something is not up to code and start over. I asked a lot of questions, one being what the most common reason was for failing inspection. The answer I got was commonly stairs and railings not up to code, but you name it, they've seen it LOL. The town had a short and sweet 2 pager of deck code in the permit application rack. Off the top of my head, it had requirements for joists, stairs, railings, etc.   

The trex railing kits come out right on the money with their jigs, I'm sure the other plug and play railing kits do as well. Speaking of railings, the Trex and Azek brands both have a top mount bracketed metal "4x4" railing post that are super-duty level. They are about 120 per, plus hardware. I went with PT 4x4's since the lighting and drainage already were causing mission creep, and it was done with the framing job.

The contractors handled the footings and framework, since that was a step or three above my pay grade. I hung out with them and learned quite a bit (how they square up the deck, flashing, beams, posts, etc.) If I had to build another, and I do!, I would still hire someone who could do the framing, and do the decking/rails myself, in trex LOL.

Jack, what do you plan on doing underneath the deck, and have you looked into drainage systems yet? 

 

[W2MC 1,627]

Footings - an old trick I learned from my great uncle, who built a ton of 'em....frame up and square up the deck (with some temporary supports), THEN dig the footings!  you'll be right on-the-money every time! 

 

 

[JackDaWack 2,372]

21 minutes ago, W2MC said:

Footings - an old trick I learned from my great uncle, who built a ton of 'em....frame up and square up the deck (with some temporary supports), THEN dig the footings!  you'll be right on-the-money every time! 

 

 

Footing placement and even depth isnt an issue, its the width that I have to figure out. 

 

 

 

Honestly, with the 2015 IRC NJ edition it is VERY clear how to build the deck, hell they even include figures and diagrams to detail exactly what the text is describing. Azek also allows for 16" spacing of the joists, although i still want to figure out just how much "firmer" 12" spacing provides. I don't want boards flexing, but a little give is OK. 

Was also looking at the Azek Railings, still need to do more homework there. They offer a few different options. 

[JackDaWack 2,372]

1 hour ago, Sir Drake said:

Yep, agreed. It is one of those things that you don't want to get half way through and find out you something is not up to code and start over. I asked a lot of questions, one being what the most common reason was for failing inspection. The answer I got was commonly stairs and railings not up to code, but you name it, they've seen it LOL. The town had a short and sweet 2 pager of deck code in the permit application rack. Off the top of my head, it had requirements for joists, stairs, railings, etc.   

The trex railing kits come out right on the money with their jigs, I'm sure the other plug and play railing kits do as well. Speaking of railings, the Trex and Azek brands both have a top mount bracketed metal "4x4" railing post that are super-duty level. They are about 120 per, plus hardware. I went with PT 4x4's since the lighting and drainage already were causing mission creep, and it was done with the framing job.

The contractors handled the footings and framework, since that was a step or three above my pay grade. I hung out with them and learned quite a bit (how they square up the deck, flashing, beams, posts, etc.) If I had to build another, and I do!, I would still hire someone who could do the framing, and do the decking/rails myself, in trex LOL.

Jack, what do you plan on doing underneath the deck, and have you looked into drainage systems yet? 

 

We have probably 50 or so big blue pavers that we're going to create a patio underneath. I looked into the trex membrane for a drainage system to waterproof the area, and similar water-proof membrane products. THAT, seems like a very tedious job. 

I'm trying to avoid using trex decking clips to save money, although I do want to use them.

[Zeke 5,496]

Don’t forget pitch.

 

if you do a njgf deck party with pork roll and coffee, then pizza and beer, then cheesteaks and more beer. I’ll be there.

i saw one built on hgtv whilst sleeping at a holiday inn.