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Legal Status of Non-NFA Firearm AR Build?

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1 minute ago, Blacksmythe said:

The item in question. Even had the measuring tape. But it did'nt come to that. aAfter they saw the ad and its price it was a curiosity for 10mins. No big deal. I would suggest printing what one is though just in case. Or not. Don't encourage their pompous authority.BADGERNONNFA.thumb.jpeg.c6382169226c7f57ea38e83026d773f7.jpeg

I would urge you to get ahead of the game and swap out the brace for an SB brace, and not the blade that looks very much like a stock with a simple strap around it.  Should invite less questions as that really does look like an SBR.

Did you have a copy of the letter with you?  That would help.

But yes... get ready to be hassled like that every single time.

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4 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I would urge you to get ahead of the game and swap out the brace for an SB brace, and not the blade that looks very much like a stock with a simple strap around it.  Should invite less questions as that really does look like an SBR......

Looks like he has an SBA4. LINK

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5 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I would urge you to get ahead of the game and swap out the brace for an SB brace, and not the blade that looks very much like a stock with a simple strap around it.  Should invite less questions as that really does look like an SBR.

Did you have a copy of the letter with you?  That would help.

But yes... get ready to be hassled like that every single time.

That is an SB brace. Really doesnt matter what it looks like. If they try doing something because they think you have a SBR, then I doubt they have any idea what a brace even is. 

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15 minutes ago, Blacksmythe said:

The item in question. Even had the measuring tape. But it did'nt come to that. aAfter they saw the ad and its price it was a curiosity for 10mins. No big deal. I would suggest printing what one is though just in case. Or not. Don't encourage their pompous authority.BADGERNONNFA.thumb.jpeg.c6382169226c7f57ea38e83026d773f7.jpeg

What lower do you have on that?

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13 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I would urge you to get ahead of the game and swap out the brace for an SB brace, and not the blade that looks very much like a stock with a simple strap around it.  Should invite less questions as that really does look like an SBR.

Did you have a copy of the letter with you?  That would help.

But yes... get ready to be hassled like that every single time.

yup SB4 very nice. I like the SB3 but I like the beefy feel of this one. unfortunately, I'm used to being harassed by NJ gun owners on ranges and in classes........

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9 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Looks like he has an SBA4. LINK

 

6 minutes ago, shooter28 said:

That is an SB brace. Really doesnt matter what it looks like. If they try doing something because they think you have a SBR, then I doubt they have any idea what a brace even is. 

Ah, the 4.  Looked rigid in the photos.

@shooter28 I am talking about the upcoming ATF stuff. =)  Kiss Rigid braces goodbye.  That looked like one in the pic.

The 3 and others that are more flexible/rubbery should be fine and I think people are used to seeing those by now.

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Just now, Maksim said:

 

Ah, the 4.  Looked rigid in the photos.

@shooter28 I am talking about the upcoming ATF stuff. =)  Kiss Rigid braces goodbye.  That looked like one in the pic.

The 3 and others that are more flexible/rubbery should be fine and I think people are used to seeing those by now.

its flexable but a different texture from the SB3

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Just now, Blacksmythe said:

its flexable but a different texture from the SB3

Good to know.  Should be okay.

Have it on fairly good authority that the rigid ones will be the first to go... think GHW, Blade, etc. 

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4 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

What lower do you have on that?

Badger from spikes. I'm waiting on my radian, 

Just now, Maksim said:

Good to know.  Should be okay.

Have it on fairly good authority that the rigid ones will be the first to go... think GHW, Blade, etc. 

I never liked the blades, they were too....in your face ATF for me and I don't scare easily.

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You know, I can’t help but be curious. What is likely to happen if someone at a range decides that you’re breaking the law? Do they call the cops on you?? 

Its nauseating thinking that's the type of thing that could happen. 

Same team?!

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4 minutes ago, Sparda81 said:

You know, I can’t help but be curious. What is likely to happen if someone at a range decides that you’re breaking the law? Do they call the cops on you?? 

Its nauseating thinking that's the type of thing that could happen. 

Same team?!

We not doing that in this thread no more. lol that goes in the other one. See the other 10 pages. lol. in all seriousness what law has been broken? I would imagine the kind of person doing that to be a confused jealous fudd. Thats what education is for. I also have no problem telling people to mind their buisness.

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3 minutes ago, Sparda81 said:

You know, I can’t help but be curious. What is likely to happen if someone at a range decides that you’re breaking the law? Do they call the cops on you?? 

Its nauseating thinking that's the type of thing that could happen. 

Same team?!

Well, the range can't really decide you are breaking the law.

If it is a public or private range, honestly, yes they can call the police... but...

1. Most of the ranges really do not want more attention...

2.  More attention ESPECIALLY if word gets out they called law enforcement on suspecting someone has something questionable... (gun owners talk)...

3. They cannot hold you down there.  So if they are getting to that point and you don't want to deal with it, just walk away.

 

But this is why if you cannot speak for yourself and know EXACTLY why these firearms are legal... but you want one... buy one that is sold in the stores and has a NJ State Police letter.  Once you show that... 99% of them will just walk away and leave you alone.

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16 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Well, the range can't really decide you are breaking the law.

If it is a public or private range, honestly, yes they can call the police... but...

1. Most of the ranges really do not want more attention...

2.  More attention ESPECIALLY if word gets out they called law enforcement on suspecting someone has something questionable... (gun owners talk)...

3. They cannot hold you down there.  So if they are getting to that point and you don't want to deal with it, just walk away.

 

But this is why if you cannot speak for yourself and know EXACTLY why these firearms are legal... but you want one... buy one that is sold in the stores and has a NJ State Police letter.  Once you show that... 99% of them will just walk away and leave you alone.

I asked before, 

Done Modern Material have a letter?

Looks like Troy or DS and thats it. 

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6 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I asked before, 

Done Modern Material have a letter?

Looks like Troy or DS and thats it. 

I don’t believe so. In one of the threads, they mentioned talks with NJSP but I haven’t seen any sort of letter associated with it. DSI and Troy were the only ones to send their firearms in for approval

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32 minutes ago, shooter28 said:

I don’t believe so. In one of the threads, they mentioned talks with NJSP but I haven’t seen any sort of letter associated with it. DSI and Troy were the only ones to send their firearms in for approval

 

39 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I asked before, 

Done Modern Material have a letter?

Looks like Troy or DS and thats it. 

Correct.

The NJSP letter explicitely lists the Troy and DSI firearms.

Troy, er @TechOpsInternational includes  the letter in the box and @Dark Storm has a copy on their website.

The @Modern Materiel rifle and the others being manufactured are not explicitly stated BUT would be covered under the second letter issued talking about firearms being manufactured and sold as such in that configuration... so second best in my opinion.  In that case I would have a copy of the COE/store receipt with me in the case, just in case.

For those that are comfortable talking their way out of issues, build your own and save $300.

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53 minutes ago, Maksim said:

 

Correct.

The NJSP letter explicitely lists the Troy and DSI firearms.

Troy, er @TechOpsInternational includes  the letter in the box and @Dark Storm has a copy on their website.

The @Modern Materiel rifle and the others being manufactured are not explicitly stated BUT would be covered under the second letter issued talking about firearms being manufactured and sold as such in that configuration... so second best in my opinion.  In that case I would have a copy of the COE/store receipt with me in the case, just in case.

For those that are comfortable talking their way out of issues, build your own and save $300.

Saved a lot more actually. That being said I go to pick one of the others up tomorrow. It's like dues fee.

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I was hoping that too, but a barrel long enough wouldn't get great ballistics from 45 BMG. On another note you could get the Noveske 9mm Upper + VFG, use a non-nfa lower and endomags to take 9mm and have yourself a fun blaster. Or just build a Noveske 9 with VFG

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2 hours ago, Rufio.Weaponworks said:

I was hoping that too, but a barrel long enough wouldn't get great ballistics from 45 BMG. On another note you could get the Noveske 9mm Upper + VFG, use a non-nfa lower and endomags to take 9mm and have yourself a fun blaster. Or just build a Noveske 9 with VFG

Noveske makes great stuff but their 9mm offerings are very overpriced for the basic blowback design.  I'd be happy with a 9mm non-nfa version of the scorpion at about half the price.  Absent that I probably will get the 9mm MM sbf.

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22 minutes ago, samtechlan said:

Noveske makes great stuff but their 9mm offerings are very overpriced for the basic blowback design.  I'd be happy with a 9mm non-nfa version of the scorpion at about half the price.  Absent that I probably will get the 9mm MM sbf.

What's the price point for them?

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depends where you buy. When I bought my LWRC rifle I paid $2000 from Luciano's in Lodi. RTSP, Ottomanelli and a few other well known retailers wanted $2700-2900 for the same gun. 

Here's an updated version of mine, I put an SBA4 on. 

Noveske Gen 1 Lower

Noveske Gen 1 complete upper 12.5" Barrel, NSR-11 rail, SiCo ASR 3 Prong

Radian Raptor Charging Handle

Geissele G2S trigger

BCM VFG

Reptilia CQG grip

LWRC Skirmish sights

Trijicon MRO w/Geissele Mount.

Without optic I spend $1500 on this build. 

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1786.jpg

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Most of these non-NFA Firearms look as long as a standard rifle. Why not just build a 16" rifle with a short stock? Add your vertical grip if you want. This is not directed at anyone in particular. 

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it's a good talking point. If you're going with a 12."5 barrel (which most of these are) with a muzzle device makes it close to 15". My SR-15 is a 14.5 pinned to 16" and I don't notice much of a difference between that and my Non-NFA in side by side, ergonomically speaking. In comparison to my LWRC which is NJ compliant the 16" barrel with muzzle brake pinned makes the barrel 18.5", my SR-15 and Noveske Non-NFA are more ergonomic, hell both are much lighter than the LWRC but there's a lot of rifles lighter than LWRC. Ballistically my SR-15 and LWRC are much better than the Noveske, less concussion with an extra few inches of rifling for the round to go through.

Objectively the biggest difference is the rifle would have to be made compliant to NJ's AWB while the Non-NFA's don't and the difference between a pistol brace and stock is minimal with 5.56.

Subjectively the biggest difference I can run a suppressor on the Noveske when I'm with friends in free states who have them, I can't do that with my Knight's unless I swap out the brake for another suppressor ready brake. It's also nice to run a flash hider on the Noveske, brakes on 5.56 are a bit overkill. I had a surefire brake on my Noveske until recently and the concussion drove me nuts.

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