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Legal Status of Non-NFA Firearm AR Build?

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1 hour ago, Blacksmythe said:

Yeah there are ffls refusing to put them as “other“ and giving out paper work to sign saying you won’t make one out of the receiver their selling you. They are intentionally misleading the person trying to purchase about law or recommendations. 

What are they transferring them as then, if not "other firearm"?  that's the only way to transfer a stripped lower...

 

Legally, I can make that receiver into anything if it follows NJ law, even if I signed a nonbinding agreement to not make one. 

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1 hour ago, shooter28 said:

I wonder if its the same FFLs pulling this shit

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Hometown/Stripped-Other-Firearm-Lower/50-639195/

They are selling lowers marked " Other Firearm" for $200 saying these are the only recievers you can build a non-NFA firearm on 

People are fucking useless if they cant say what store is doing this. 

 

NJSP said you cant make ANY "other firearm" from a stripped reciever... I can paint "other firearm" on any lower and get the same result. Doesnt change what really matters, and that's how its transferred. In fact this FFL is openly promoting exactly what the NJSP said not to do. 

Black rain doesnt sell a lower receiver like that, the legally cant. The ATF would shut them down if they started selling lower receivers transferred or marked as something other than "reciever".

 

And who writes "pistol" or "rifle" on their lowers, or any reciever?  No one. Which just goes to show how stupid it is to think you need it marked "other"

 

Doesn anyone know what FFL this is? I would love to give them a call.

 

IMO, you would be crazy to try and build one of these relying on information from a Gun store.. there gonna get some one arrested.

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I asked in the thread but the guy never responded. I would love to know just to make sure I dont send any business to them

Completely agree about listening to gun store advice on a lot of issues about this and a whole bunch of other gun related laws in this state. That said, there are a few FFLs on this board who I do trust and look to for information. I think most of us know who they are. 

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2 hours ago, shooter28 said:

I asked in the thread but the guy never responded. I would love to know just to make sure I dont send any business to them

Completely agree about listening to gun store advice on a lot of issues about this and a whole bunch of other gun related laws in this state. That said, there are a few FFLs on this board who I do trust and look to for information. I think most of us know who they are. 

guy should post who but didn't he say down in beachwood?  I know of only 1 ffl shop down there

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I went with a friend to a place I do no business with who is a vender here and has two locations and saw this. He followed my advice and didn’t complete the transaction. 

As always, your results may vary and build them anyway. 

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11 minutes ago, Blacksmythe said:

I went with a friend to a place I do no business with who is a vender here and has two locations and saw this. He followed my advice and didn’t complete the transaction. 

As always, your results may vary and build them anyway. 

what place was selling this???

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4 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

People are fucking useless if they cant say what store is doing this. 

 

NJSP said you cant make ANY "other firearm" from a stripped reciever... I can paint "other firearm" on any lower and get the same result. Doesnt change what really matters, and that's how its transferred. In fact this FFL is openly promoting exactly what the NJSP said not to do. 

So just for clarification, if I buy a stripped lower, even if on paper its listed as other/receiver, I CAN NOT build it into a other/non NFA firearm? I must buy one pre made? 

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Just now, John Smith said:

So just for clarification, if I buy a stripped lower, even if on paper its listed as other/receiver, I CAN NOT build it into a other/non NFA firearm? I must buy one pre made? 

There is no law saying that you are not allowed to.  NJSP is concerned about people accidentally breaking the law and told FFLs to only sell them as a complete firearm.  Many here have built their own.

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5 minutes ago, everythingisnothing said:

There is no law saying that you are not allowed to.  NJSP is concerned about people accidentally breaking the law and told FFLs to only sell them as a complete firearm.  Many here have built their own.

Okay, makes sense. In my short time researching this there has been so much contradicting info, just trying to get it all straight. Thanks

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3 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Okay, makes sense. In my short time researching this there has been so much contradicting info, just trying to get it all straight. Thanks

There has been a constant stream of misinformation and misunderstandings since the Shockwave etc first started getting sold in NJ.  If you choose to build, make sure you understand the NFA and what makes something not a rifle or pistol.  Just like you should understand the NJ AWB if you build a normal rifle.

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Just now, everythingisnothing said:

There has been a constant stream of misinformation and misunderstandings since the Shockwave etc first started getting sold in NJ.  If you choose to build, make sure you understand the NFA and what makes something not a rifle or pistol.  Just like you should understand the NJ AWB if you build a normal rifle.

I believe I have a good handle on what makes it legal, 26+ oal, pistol brace, vfg, muzzle device can be pinned to increase length if needed. One question, do we measure the end of the brace fully collapsed, or from the end of buffer tube?

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Just now, John Smith said:

I believe I have a good handle on what makes it legal, 26+ oal, pistol brace, vfg, muzzle device can be pinned to increase length if needed. One question, do we measure the end of the brace fully collapsed, or from the end of buffer tube?

End of the buffer tube.  That's a recent change from the ATF.

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Just now, everythingisnothing said:

Also, don't use a folding brace adapter, otherwise you'll have to fold it when you measure.  Basically, measure it from the smallest configuration.

Gotcha, now what if I pin the brace, just like if I were pinning a collapsing stock on a ar15 rifle? Does the end of brace become the new measurement point since its permanently fixed? Would be able to shorted the barrel a few inches I imagine if you can do that and still be over the 26 inches

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1 minute ago, John Smith said:

Gotcha, now what if I pin the brace, just like if I were pinning a collapsing stock on a ar15 rifle? Does the end of brace become the new measurement point since its permanently fixed? Would be able to shorted the barrel a few inches I imagine if you can do that and still be over the 26 inches

I'm honestly not sure.  If you want to do that it's probably a better idea to use an A5 receiver extension which is a bit longer than a standard carbine extension.  I believe that would allow you to use a 10.5" barrel without a pin and weld, but I'm not positive.  With a normal tube you should be able to use a 10.5" if you pin it.  Someone posted a chart a while back that summarizes it well.

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Just now, everythingisnothing said:

I'm honestly not sure.  If you want to do that it's probably a better idea to use an A5 receiver extension which is a bit longer than a standard carbine extension.  I believe that would allow you to use a 10.5" barrel without a pin and weld, but I'm not positive.  With a normal tube you should be able to use a 10.5" if you pin it.  Someone posted a chart a while back that summarizes it well.

Yeah I saw the chart, forget if it said anything about pinning the brace

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Just now, John Smith said:

Yeah I saw the chart, forget if it said anything about pinning the brace

A5 tube with a 11.5" barrel will get you just over 26" without any pinning. If you want a 10.5" barrel, you will need to pin

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18 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

we need a build list etc to follow.  Did anyone make one?

If you use any 12.5" upper with a VFG and any pistol lower you should be fine.  Several people have gotten 12.5" uppers from B. King's which are inexpensive but solid, I'm sure there are more premium options as well. If you want a shorter barrel you'll need to be a little more careful about your choice of receiver extension.  Beyond this the build is the same as any other AR-15.

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24 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

we need a build list etc to follow.  Did anyone make one?

Ill be posting pics of mine in a couple days when I get a chance but heres my build list. 

Lower:

  • Aero Precision lower
  • Larue MBT trigger
  • SOLGW lower parts kit
  • VLTOR A5 extension with Springco Green spring & A5H2 buffer
  • BCM Mod 3 grip

Upper: Completely assembled by Andro Corps

  • Andro Upper
  • 11.5" BA barrel
  • 10.7" SLR Ion handguard
  • Magpul VFG
  • Radian Charging handle
  • A.O Nitride BCG
  • A2 flash hider - (until I move out and get into the suppressor game....)

 

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32 minutes ago, everythingisnothing said:

If you use any 12.5" upper with a VFG and any pistol lower you should be fine.  Several people have gotten 12.5" uppers from B. King's which are inexpensive but solid, I'm sure there are more premium options as well. If you want a shorter barrel you'll need to be a little more careful about your choice of receiver extension.  Beyond this the build is the same as any other AR-15.

this upper?

 

https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/complete-upper-receivers/bkf-ar15-govt-12-5-556-nato-carbine-length-1-7-twist-barrel-w-11-625-slim-m-lok-handguard-ballistic-advantage/

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4 hours ago, John Smith said:

Gotcha, now what if I pin the brace, just like if I were pinning a collapsing stock on a ar15 rifle? Does the end of brace become the new measurement point since its permanently fixed? Would be able to shorted the barrel a few inches I imagine if you can do that and still be over the 26 inches

IMO.. if it is pinned like a stock would be, it's just as permanent then. But there are no official statements on it. 

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