GFHR #240 ANJRPC's Scott Bach on Guv'na Christie!

[gunforhire 826]

GFHR #240 Cute Cuddly Puppies and a Lawyer. ANJRPC's Scott Bach joins the boys for a very spirited discussion about the future of the NJ Gun Owners in the wake of The Governors' Special Commission Report.  Oh... and puppies http://content.blubrry.com/gunforhireradio/GFH_Episode_240.mp3

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Anthony,

 

         I listened to the broadcast and I must admit, Scott's answers and explanation did make sense. I think an awful lot of the confusion comes from the question "does Christie have the ability to include self defense as a

justifiable need?" The answer appears to be no! The facts as Scott laid them out then make sense. If he does do things to help us and we constantly bash him for his efforts, will he say "screw them" and stop trying to help us?

 

         My mind goes back to Bob V.  and how I felt betrayed by him after spending so much money in his shop only to find out he was and is a Sweeney supporting, no CCW in NJ Fudd! I was afraid of being betrayed again by someone like Scott who is in much the same position as Bob V. was as a state rep for the NRA! Let's sit back and see what Christie does with the commission report and give credit where credit is due!

 

         Thank you Anthony for always being a strong voice for 2A for us! I also like the idea of a round table with you and NJ2AS and other groups getting together at some level. NJ2AS has videos as you have seen that

are VERY helpful to our cause. Perhaps you could help get the word out on that tactic and have your listeners record their encounters with their local PD or NJSP as well.

[67gtonut 847]

Glad I listened also......

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Glad I listened also......

I know what you mean Troy. I had no idea what to think about this whole mess but Scott explained his actions and to some extent, he made sense! We do have two more years with Christie and there

is certainly no point in turning him against us with an all or nothing attitude! We must remember, this is the PRNJ and CCW won't happen overnight.

[matty 810]

Eh. Mr. Bach seems to be certain concrete results will come of this commission report, with a tamping down of expectations on the change of Justifiable Need. He is probably right that Christie is the best 2A rights Governor in the last 50 years. Which is an extremely low bar when you consider Hughes, Cahill, Byrne, Florio, Whitman & Corzine are in there. In my opinion, this is only to boost his chances in the New Hampshire and other early primaries. Once he is knocked out of the box, this commission and its recommendations will be forgotten by CC, I think.  We'll see I suppose, I have the old email/fax/phone reminders to send messages to the Govs office to make those recommendations happen cranked up to go out weekly. We got what we got, may as well try & get something before the changing of the guard in 2018.

[siderman 1,138]

After hearing this interview with SB and the Dan Schmutter one on Bear Arms I feel a bit more grounded with whats been happening. However it all still boils down to a "wait and see..."  so thats where we're at.

[PD2K 115]

On a positive note, I did like the point that Mr. Bach made that this report and the AG directive will enforce ANJRPC's litigation efforts.

 

But did not address the issue of municipalities that do not comply to the AG directive or court rulings.

[bhunted 887]

On a positive note, I did like the point that Mr. Bach made that this report and the AG directive will enforce ANJRPC's litigation efforts.

 

But did not address the issue of municipalities that do not comply to the AG directive or court rulings.

That is what 'Strike Force' is doing. They are going to have to or be sued.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[T Bill 649]

If you don't stick with the Governor, what is your alternative?  Go ahead poke the Sweeney monkey some more and see what happens in 2018. If Christie manages a Federal Appoint for 2017 what happens then.  

 

I agree with Scott don't go burning down bridges you haven't crossed yet.  Christie crossed over to the dark side once before, whether you realize it or not, he has regretted it ever since.  He just needs a little reminder every now and again.

[Zeke 5,504]

I'd like to thank Mr Bach for his work, and for taking the time to explain and answer questions.

[NJGF 375]

Everyone should take the time to listen to this podcast.

[gunforhire 826]

Thank for the input I will forward to Bach. I am optimistic but NJ really sucks!

[siderman 1,138]

That is what 'Strike Force' is doing. They are going to have to or be sued.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the biggest flaw in the report! Why does the civilian sector need to sue local govts for ignoring a state directive?! The state needs to man-up and enforce it not us- its a state issued order and shouldnt be our responsibility to enforce it!

[Zeke 5,504]

This is the biggest flaw in the report! Why does the private sector need to sue local govts for ignoring a state directive?! The state needs to man-up and enforce it not us- its a state issued order and shouldnt be our responsibility to enforce it!

because it's how the citizens get shit done. You think the career politicians will vote for term limits?

[Zeke 5,504]

Thank for the input I will forward to Bach. I am optimistic but NJ really sucks!

as with any land, it's what we make it!

 

Nj is state with people that have been broken a long time. I was born in Idaho. I can look outside the box.

[Luso 6]

Episode was a joke. Bach filibustered 4 of the 5 segments. The only segment with questions were constantly pushed aside as "already being answered".

 

First of all, stop giving Christie credit for vetoing bills. That's what he's supposed to do. You sound like a father asking for a pat on the back for feeding his children. Let's not forgot he vetoed a bill he himself was originally proposing !!! He was behind the band on 50 cal originally. STOP PRAISING HIM

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/04/19/gov-christie-announces-plan-for-curbing-gun-violence/

 

Stop kissing his ass!! For years he agreed countless times on the record he supported the laws we had on the books because we live in a "densely" populated state. Enough of making him sound like some hero

 

The commission report: means shit. Unless the directive from the AG's office is "every police chief whose department fails to accept or deny a permit within 30 days is fired" then this was a failure. no consequences= no change in behavior from the scum who keep delaying us. How stupid are you guys who are taken by this interview? Bach is always vague and nebulous, as if he knows so much that we don't. Acting like we are too stupid to understand his lofty calculus. What I do know is Christie's last term is almost up and we are ostensibly no better off than we were under Corzine. This comes down to his self promotion and his tantalizing "inside" knowledge he always claims to have but can't share. Big things are always around the corner and we have to wait patiently. Well, Christie is almost gone. You are a 6 figure earning, non profit executive protecting your position, your org, and your political connections. I know your world and it's clear what is happening. Stop praising Christie. He will be gone and the next governor is going to shit in your mouth and not care about you.

 

I have the complete opposite view of Bach. He thinks Christie is the second coming, so we should treat him with kid gloves because he's "doing us a favor". Quite the contrary, he's a sorry sack of shit that wants to be president, and only will be around for a short time longer while he clings to that ambition, so our window to smack him to get what we need is getting shorter and shorter.

 

Bach answers his own questions and then ignores it - he admits he wasn't " doing anything" for us until recently. It's singularly and precisely because he is running for president. If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't have wasted two seconds of his time with this commission. He waited 6 years to take a minuscule step, and you guys are clapping like seals. You should have the total opposite mentality- we should be hammering the shit out of him senselessly, because once he drops out of that primary, he has ZERO reason to pretend to pander to us anymore. Then say hello to Sweeney, game over

 

Embarrassing the governor during his precious campaign causing pressure from outside the state is the only route to substantive change at this point. You better all pray that douche lasts as long as he can in this primary, because once he's out, our leverage is gone. Then maybe Bach will have another vague and tantalizing surprise to tease us with when he starts rubbing Sweeney's back

 

As I've said countless times, the enemy should be getting recorded every chance we get, and it should be broadcasted online. So that people hate Christie for what he is allowing to transpire in our state.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

We all seemed to give Scott the benefit of doubt here, all except you!

 

This state has been Fu@k#d up for a very long time! Like almost 100 years! So along comes a Governor that at least does more to help us than he does to hurt us. More than any other Governor in recent history to say the least! Is it wise to totally alienate him when we all know he has two more years in office? I am not saying he is a friend of 2A rights in New Jersey, he is however the the best hope we have seen in this state in our lifetimes!

 

We have to be smart and get all we can from Christie! We will surely get no support from Sweeney as we pissed him off real good! Deservedly so, but we never had even a small chance of ANY support from him, whereas we do from Christie! I say we use him for everything we can possibly get out of him.

 

Luso, I have agreed with most everything you stand for! The video taping of every encounter is a must! I do not however agree with your putting down and criticizing virtually everyone in this forum, including me and many others in the 2A community as it in no way serves to bring people to our side. We truly need to work together as a team to accomplish our goal. I am not saying all 2A groups in the PRNJ need to unite but those of us in NJ2AS at least should stick together. Your radical rants may appeal to some here but I really think you should tone them down a bit! When you begin to alienate a staunch supporter such as myself who spent two Sundays on Sweeney's sidewalk with Alex! You may want to rethink your strategy on "how to make friends and influence people". Please take this as "constructive criticism" and not an attack! We are, after all, on the same side!

[Luso 6]

We all seemed to give Scott the benefit of doubt here, all except you!

 

This state has been Fu@k#d up for a very long time! Like almost 100 years! So along comes a Governor that at least does more to help us than he does to hurt us. More than any other Governor in recent history to say the least! Is it wise to totally alienate him when we all know he has two more years in office? I am not saying he is a friend of 2A rights in New Jersey, he is however the the best hope we have seen in this state in our lifetimes!

 

We have to be smart and get all we can from Christie! We will surely get no support from Sweeney as we pissed him off real good! Deservedly so, but we never had even a small chance of ANY support from him, whereas we do from Christie! I say we use him for everything we can possibly get out of him.

 

Luso, I have agreed with most everything you stand for! The video taping of every encounter is a must! I do not however agree with your putting down and criticizing virtually everyone in this forum, including me and many others in the 2A community as it in no way serves to bring people to our side. We truly need to work together as a team to accomplish our goal. I am not saying all 2A groups in the PRNJ need to unite but those of us in NJ2AS at least should stick together. Your radical rants may appeal to some here but I really think you should tone them down a bit! When you begin to alienate a staunch supporter such as myself who spent two Sundays on Sweeney's sidewalk with Alex! You may want to rethink your strategy on "how to make friends and influence people". Please take this as "constructive criticism" and not an attack! We are, after all, on the same side!

No offense taken. I just recognize a reality I see in front of me. I see no reason to take the foot of the gas. Why should we not hammer him? He was agreeing with the laws we had until literally the day before he announced his presidential campaign. Then when he promised this commission, he was silent on it for six months, until miraculously they directly cited content that embarrassed him and shattered the narrative that everything is OK with our laws. Those videos are irrefutable evidence of the hell we endure, a black mark on his record. He knew those things were going on, and didn't care until the videos were put in front of him in black and white. Don't you guys see that? Six months for this commission, and the things he has cited in the report were released literally the 2 weeks before its release. Do you guys just believe in incredible coincidence, or is there a reason it happened that way?

 

It's not about "alienating". I say this now respectfully- activism is not about asking permission from government. It's not about petitioning government. It's about causing direct action that forces the government to respond to US. That's what those videos were, and that's the type of response they cause. It's not alienating- damning content makes Christie, his legislators, and his police departments look bad. The more you hammer him, the more he has to respond.

 

People are acting like he's a "friend" to 2A. He's just saying and doing what a strategist is calculating for him. But we can control the world and reality put in front of the media that he will have to respond against. Taking it "easy" on him will not make him "go faster" in our desired direction. You have to make him confront the reality of our state, and defend it to donors and supporters on the national stage. Again, he was a vocal supporter of our laws "on the books" every year, magically, until this campaign. Wouldn't logic dictate that when his campaign ends, he will revert back to the status quo mentality he publicly exalted until about June 2015? Why is the opinion here that once his campaign is over, he will suddenly do even MORE for us? This psychology is baffling to me.

 

And another thing people aren't realizing. I don't care who is governor next - if we magically achieved carry before Christie leaves , it's then very hard politically for even a democrat governor and legislator to reverse it. Doesn't matter that they don't like it- the optics of doing that is tough to swallow and looks incredibly tyrannical. Name one state that has opened up to carry in the last 30 years, and then has reverted to a carry ban. I can't think of one. It's not a palatable political move. Once your populace is armed by the thousands and walking the streets with weapons, it's a tough PR pill to swallow to stand at a statehouse protected by armed state troopers and countdown to your carry ban.

 

We have a slim window to push this envelope. I highly discourage any mentality that calls for easing up on Chrisite. This is a sprint, not a marathon, and his time is almost up

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Luso,

 

        Thank you. I fully agree with everything you said and the way you said it. I too am frustrated by the promise of a commission that seemed to never happen and suddenly appeared, with a verdict at a very politically opportune time for Christie and his campaign to nowhere! I have also said in this forum that if we can get CCW from Christie, it will be almost impossible for anyone to take it away from us in the future.

 

        I don't condone kissing his ass or easing up on him either! As you said, "we have a slim window to push this envelope" and push that envelope we must! We may never have a better chance than now!

[Luso 6]

Luso,

 

        Thank you. I fully agree with everything you said and the way you said it. I too am frustrated by the promise of a commission that seemed to never happen and suddenly appeared, with a verdict at a very politically opportune time for Christie and his campaign to nowhere! I have also said in this forum that if we can get CCW from Christie, it will be almost impossible for anyone to take it away from us in the future.

 

        I don't condone kissing his ass or easing up on him either! As you said, "we have a slim window to push this envelope" and push that envelope we must! We may never have a better chance than now!

We are doing what we can behind the scenes to create the chaos and establish a damning narrative. The more people are willing to help with documenting our reality, the more Christie will have to respond to and rectify those situations. Or conversely, if we can demonstrate his commission report is totally flaccid and didn't really change the behavior of police permitting timeframes (which it won't) the more embarrassment you can heap on him

 

We showed the country what happens behind the curtain. He responded with an underwhelming, minuscule change to our laws. Let's show the country again how his show of force and call for action in that commission report are impotent and symbolic. We all know permits will still take months in most towns, we all know carry is still no issue. If we can undermine the report, he has another problem on his hands, particularly with those New Hampshire groups who already aren't fond of him. It's not pat on the back time. it's so incredibly timely and important to show what a crock that entire gesture with the commission report truly was.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

The back-peddling continues: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/chris-christie-guns-217437

[Zeke 5,504]

The back-peddling continues: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/chris-christie-guns-217437

Not for nothing, how many anti/ scared/ misinformed people have you introduced to the 2a? Not asking for stats, not an attack, people in this state are brainwashed. But, my friend, we are helping them change. On a personal level

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Not for nothing, how many anti/ scared/ misinformed people have you introduced to the 2a? Not asking for stats, not an attack, people in this state are brainwashed. But, my friend, we are helping them change. On a personal level

3 so far.

[jeff47 30]

He may very well have changed his position due to his time as prosecutor. Most cops I've known around here have been anti gun/neutral going in and 5+ years later have become pro-gun or at least neutral. My one buddy (who used to be very anti) describes his job as having only 2 functions. 1) cleaning up ugly messes, 2) giving people bad news.

 

I think Bach had some great points, we know there is little Christie can do and I'd rather push him forward a bit rather than just beat him down. I think you way over estimate the leverage we have over Christie. No one (including Christie) thinks he'll be Pres, he's just trying to line up a job in the next admin. If he's moving in our direction why kick him in the teeth? We all know he could have done more, more quickly but going out of our way to piss him off isn't going to help us, we all know he could screw us even more if he wanted.

[Luso 6]

How are you people not insulted by his obfuscation of the truth in his quote:

 

"what I have done recently is to make sure that we’re making it easier for folks to be able to get a permit in New Jersey because they deserve the right to do that as law-abiding citizens.”

 

1. He has not executed any orders whatsoever. He just agreed with the commissions "findings"

 

2. Nothing in that commission, in any tangible way, shape, or form, is going to make it "easier" for anyone to carry or purchase weapons. The commission rather concluded the recommended changes actually CEMENT justifiable need making it harder to overturn

 

So carry will never happen, and they still have not outlined ANY consequences for law enforcement who fail to abide by our bullshit 30 day rules

 

This is disingenuous campaign obfuscation at its worst. He's blatantly lying. He hasn't done anything. Period. Our lives in regards to buying guns or applying for carry permits will not improve one iota due to this commission and its findings. Stop repeating Scott Bach mindlessly. Instead of parroting him, read the actual report instead in its entirety, like I did, and recognize they celebrated justifiable need is now here to stay. This is nothing but Christie placating those attacking his 2A cred with a flaccid maneuver and repeating over and over how much he did to the point where you start repeating it

 

Ask the hundreds of people still on months 3-24 that we are working with still waiting for their permits. Enough said

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Has he publicly agreed to / reacted to the report? (Seriously, I don't know. Link(s)?)

 

My understanding of the report was a recommendation that FPIDs & P2Ps were to be expedited. Nothing in it lead me to believe that they recommended anything regarding "carry" permits.

[Luso 6]

Has he publicly agreed to / reacted to the report? (Seriously, I don't know. Link(s)?)

 

My understanding of the report was a recommendation that FPIDs & P2Ps were to be expedited. Nothing in it lead me to believe that they recommended anything regarding "carry" permits.

Simultaneous with its release, he said he agreed with its findings in most articles and hoped the AG would expedite some sort of action

 

Saying purchase permits and FIDs have to be "expedited" is the same as saying you have to turn over those permits in 30 days. Look how often that gets followed. Never

 

If there is no demonstrable CONSEQUENCE/PUNISHMENT for law enforcement for FAILING to abide by this law, why would to you think anything would change due to this commission? We already have a law that says 30 days and police wipe their ass with that

 

I'm working with people who are being told by detectives "how dare you ask for it in 30 days- do you want us to give guns to criminals!!! You must be a criminal too!!" This is the attitude they take - constant excuses. We have a person who has waited 14 months (his video coming out soon) and the detective on tape says "I don't know why it isn't done" as if to say it isn't his fault even though he's the one processing them!!

 

Remember, they type your name in a database and hit enter. The results are virtually instantaneous. These scumbags are just LAZY and are spitting in your face metaphorically by suggesting YOU'RE the asshole for demanding it in 30 days.

 

What the hell do you think some no-punishment directive is going to do to change that?

 

Now, if we can sue the department because the commission says any permit not returned within 30 days will lead to fines administered on the chief, or him being fired after 2-3 violations, now we're talking!! Watch how fast those permits suddenly get done. But that didn't happen! That's why nothing will change if there is no consequence. They will continue to lie to us and talk to us with the despicable contempt we already have documented

 

Please- we need people recording these instances and contacting me. Let me know how I can help

[CMJeepster 2,778]

I appreciate everything that you're doing for the cause and look forward to getting active some day. (It's not in the cards right now due to life.)

 

I got my FPID & 2 P2Ps in the fall of 2012 in 23 days. I have a friend that just got the same in 12 from an adjacent municipality. It can be done. What are the real causes behind the delays? Laziness? Orders from above to delay? To me, it's showing not just the bullshiting that's going on via those fantastic videos, but also showing that these things can be completed within the 30 day timeframe. Here's a place for 6 years worth of data: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/22294-nj-fidpp-compliancy-project/

 

Keep up the good fight!

[Zeke 5,504]

How are you people not insulted by his obfuscation of the truth in his quote:

 

"what I have done recently is to make sure that we’re making it easier for folks to be able to get a permit in New Jersey because they deserve the right to do that as law-abiding citizens.”

 

1. He has not executed any orders whatsoever. He just agreed with the commissions "findings"

 

2. Nothing in that commission, in any tangible way, shape, or form, is going to make it "easier" for anyone to carry or purchase weapons. The commission rather concluded the recommended changes actually CEMENT justifiable need making it harder to overturn

 

So carry will never happen, and they still have not outlined ANY consequences for law enforcement who fail to abide by our bullshit 30 day rules

 

This is disingenuous campaign obfuscation at its worst. He's blatantly lying. He hasn't done anything. Period. Our lives in regards to buying guns or applying for carry permits will not improve one iota due to this commission and its findings. Stop repeating Scott Bach mindlessly. Instead of parroting him, read the actual report instead in its entirety, like I did, and recognize they celebrated justifiable need is now here to stay. This is nothing but Christie placating those attacking his 2A cred with a flaccid maneuver and repeating over and over how much he did to the point where you start repeating it

 

Ask the hundreds of people still on months 3-24 that we are working with still waiting for their permits. Enough said

"If all you make are enemies, you'll never have any friends"

-Mrs . Zeke circa alot

[Luso 6]

"If all you make are enemies, you'll never have any friends"

-Mrs . Zeke circa alot

People who support a document that boasts that justifiable need is now harder to overturn aren't my friend. They are the enemy.

 

We aren't here to make friends. We are here to embarrass and get results