Most Carry Qualification Requirements Erased 9-17-23

[Vdep217 64]

10 minutes ago, revenger said:

I still dont know how "Shooters" can put out a statement that they checked wtih the SP and their quals are OK ,   A friend took his quals there and they only went out to 15 yds,    so how can the SP say theres was OK but Gun for Hire is not?   I hope its not a money grab by the ranges?

 

something fishy

Depends on wich instructor ran the course at shooters

[JackDaWack 2,895]

1 hour ago, Vdep217 said:

With the new sualification it has stated that anyone who has previously acquired a permit that does not meet the new criteria has until October 1 to comply.  I like my freedom to much and my money to risk it all you do you I wish u the best of luck and hope you have deep pockets if you are caught carrying in violation

Like I said, nothing in the law states that a license can be voided for failure to qualify under these circumstances. It's. That. Simple. 

They can attempt to pull this BS, I WILL NOT COMPLY. 

My permit is valid, by law... until it expires or a statutory violation is met. 

[Vdep217 64]

10 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Like I said, nothing in the law states that a license can be voided for failure to qualify under these circumstances. It's. That. Simple. 

They can attempt to pull this BS, I WILL NOT COMPLY. 

My permit is valid, by law... until it expires or a statutory violation is met. 

Or unless it's revoked for not complying wich is the talk right now.  But again do as u see fit but if charged u could loose it all

[JackDaWack 2,895]

9 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

Or unless it's revoked for not complying wich is the talk right now.  But again do as u see fit but if charged u could loose it all

Cite. The. Law. 

What does the law say I have to do to retain my license? I can't find where it says I am required to meet state qualifications. Qualifications are required by statute to obtain or renew a license... not retain. 

[Vdep217 64]

The new requirements say tgat 8f u were issued a permit prior and your qual did not meet the standard you have till Oct 1to comply. It replaced the current statute regarding carry.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

2 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

The new requirements say tgat 8f u were issued a permit prior and your qual did not meet the standard you have till Oct 1to comply. It replaced the current statute regarding carry.

Cite the law. NJSP don't write the law buddy. 

 

They recieved some BS directives from an NJ AG that doesn't follow the law. 

[Vdep217 64]

Again do what u wish and I hope if you are carrying when stopped snd charged you don't loose everything.   They will charge you u may win in the end but at what cost.  U will be used as an example and the poster child saying see even law abiding gun owners don't follow the law.

 Don't take any of what I'm saying as if I agree with them I don't I'm in agreement with you but there's a right way to go about it and a wrong one.  Let the courts handle it one of the reasons bumb didn't squash the costs is because the state could issue refunds in the future if found unconstitutional. 

[LTC 10]

I have been waiting for this second shoe to drop for months. As a NJSP authorized RPO & Civilian Qualifier, I have only qualified a half dozen or so individuals. From the start of my qualifications, I included everything the state is now requiring. I covered safe handling, safe, legal storage. I observed that the applicant was familiar with the firearm of choice and operated it is a safe manner, I vetted their choice of holsters. I qualified each of them to the essential equivalent of HQC2 verbiage used by the state. I required a 50 round, timed, drawn from a holster, course of fire from 3 yards to 25 yards. I reviewed the then current Use of Force document supplied by the NJSP Firearms Unit and gave an exam on the content to each applicant. I required a score of 100% on the exam. I fail to see where my qualifications are lacking or falling short of the current NJ requirements.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

47 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

Again do what u wish and I hope if you are carrying when stopped snd charged you don't loose everything.   They will charge you u may win in the end but at what cost.  U will be used as an example and the poster child saying see even law abiding gun owners don't follow the law.

 Don't take any of what I'm saying as if I agree with them I don't I'm in agreement with you but there's a right way to go about it and a wrong one.  Let the courts handle it one of the reasons bumb didn't squash the costs is because the state could issue refunds in the future if found unconstitutional. 

We're still missing the point. 

The law doesn't allow for them to revoke an approved license unless specific conditions are met. There is no retroactive statute on qualifications. My quals were done under the letter of law, and reviewed by a chief of police and Judge using the then current NJSP directives. 

It's not probable that my chief of police would even rescind my license without a statutory reason. I can just see how many people would end up in the cross hairs of a civil rights violation. I dont think my town would be willing to bet millions of dollars in lawsuits to revoke a handful of licenses. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

29 minutes ago, LTC said:

I have been waiting for this second shoe to drop for months. As a NJSP authorized RPO & Civilian Qualifier, I have only qualified a half dozen or so individuals. From the start of my qualifications, I included everything the state is now requiring. I covered safe handling, safe, legal storage. I observed that the applicant was familiar with the firearm of choice and operated it is a safe manner, I vetted their choice of holsters. I qualified each of them to the essential equivalent of HQC2 verbiage used by the state. I required a 50 round, timed, drawn from a holster, course of fire from 3 yards to 25 yards. I reviewed the then current Use of Force document supplied by the NJSP Firearms Unit and gave an exam on the content to each applicant. I required a score of 100% on the exam. I fail to see where my qualifications are lacking or falling short of the current NJ requirements.

The old law didn't even require HQC2 or equivalent or a written test. After passage of the new law, I can see why you would do this. 

[bennj 215]

I have been checking the NJSP website for info regarding permit to carry quals, etc. I know I saw it last week. It seems the link has been moved or removed. Can anyone tell me where I can access the qual/use of force/ etc. info?

Thanks in advance

[Tunaman 558]

1 hour ago, bennj said:

I have been checking the NJSP website for info regarding permit to carry quals, etc. I know I saw it last week. It seems the link has been moved or removed. Can anyone tell me where I can access the qual/use of force/ etc. info?

Thanks in advance

gunforhire.com 

[bennj 215]

Thanks Tunaman, downloaded the link. Don't want to go OT, but after reading through the qual course of fire, how does one decock a striker fired handgun as required?

[JohnnyB 4,326]

9 minutes ago, bennj said:

Thanks Tunaman, downloaded the link. Don't want to go OT, but after reading through the qual course of fire, how does one decock a striker fired handgun as required?

Easy, DON"T PULL THE TRIGGER!

[bennj 215]

I'm still curious as to why the link regarding permit to carry and course of fire info seems to have been removed from the NJSP website.

[Dr. Goodshot 26]

2 hours ago, bennj said:

how does one decock a striker fired handgun as required?

I understand that to mean that if your gun is the kind with a decocker, then you have to decock it in the stated situations, but if it's striker fired, then the gun is "to be fired in the manner in which the individual weapon functions normally." So no decock necessary. Because I'm pretty sure the only way to decock a Glock is to pull the trigger with no round in the chamber, and I don't think they mean that...

[Tunaman 558]

9 hours ago, bennj said:

I'm still curious as to why the link regarding permit to carry and course of fire info seems to have been removed from the NJSP website.

according to Nappen it is so full of childish MISTAKES and errors that they probably pulled it to fix the errors.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

10 hours ago, bennj said:

I'm still curious as to why the link regarding permit to carry and course of fire info seems to have been removed from the NJSP website.

they're probably getting ready to change it again, and don't want it to be too obvious.

[Mr.Stu 1,927]

16 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Cite the law. NJSP don't write the law buddy. 

 

They recieved some BS directives from an NJ AG that doesn't follow the law. 

Here is the law:

 

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.

   2C:58-4. g.   Training requirement. (1) On or prior to the first day of the seventh month following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.), the superintendent shall establish training requirements in the lawful and safe handling and storage of firearms, which shall consist of an online course of instruction, in-person classroom instruction, and target training administered by a certified firearm instructor on a firing range approved by the superintendent and on the list of approved ranges published on the State Police website. The training shall include, but not be limited to, demonstration of a level of proficiency in the use of a handgun in such manner as required by the superintendent and training, developed or approved in conjunction with the Police Training Commission, on justification in the use of deadly force under State law.
 
   (2) A person who obtained a permit pursuant to this section prior to the first day of the seventh month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) and which permit is not scheduled to expire until at least one year following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) shall comply with the training requirement established pursuant to this subsection no later than the first day of the tenth month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.).

[45Doll 5,881]

16 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

They can attempt to pull this BS, I WILL NOT COMPLY. 

My permit is valid, by law... until it expires or a statutory violation is met. 

Well Jack, I admire your conviction and determination. Someone has to blaze a new trail, and it might very well be you. For the record, I agree with almost everything you have said.

I, on the other hand, would not have this much determination. At least not at this point. Why?

Because I remember Robert Torricelli was a candidate for NJ U.S. Senate. Until he dropped out of the race less than 30 days before the election. And the 'law' said there couldn't be any changes to the ballot within 30 days. So the Republican would have won the seat by default. So said the 'law'.

And then, no less than the New Jersey Supreme Court said the 'law' didn't matter, did what the hell they wanted to regardless of the 'law', and we wound up with Frank Lautenberg.

And during the whole COVID debacle much of the 'law', or the U.S. Constitution, didn't matter either. No less than our esteemed Governor confirmed that, pointing out that Constitutional matters were 'above his pay grade'. So he ignored them and did what the hell he wanted.

So my only caution to you would be to carefully consider how much the entire legal apparatus in New Jersey respects and obeys 'the law'. And what they would feel free to do in your scenario.

Regardless of your decision, I wish you luck and success.

 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

18 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Here is the law:

 

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.

   2C:58-4. g.   Training requirement. (1) On or prior to the first day of the seventh month following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.), the superintendent shall establish training requirements in the lawful and safe handling and storage of firearms, which shall consist of an online course of instruction, in-person classroom instruction, and target training administered by a certified firearm instructor on a firing range approved by the superintendent and on the list of approved ranges published on the State Police website. The training shall include, but not be limited to, demonstration of a level of proficiency in the use of a handgun in such manner as required by the superintendent and training, developed or approved in conjunction with the Police Training Commission, on justification in the use of deadly force under State law.
 
   (2) A person who obtained a permit pursuant to this section prior to the first day of the seventh month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) and which permit is not scheduled to expire until at least one year following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) shall comply with the training requirement established pursuant to this subsection no later than the first day of the tenth month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.).

even if their previous qual was the same as the new requirement?

[Mr.Stu 1,927]

1 minute ago, 1LtCAP said:

even if their previous qual was the same as the new requirement?

If, by happy coincidence, the training and qualification you completed prior to the publishing of these requirements fulfils all the requirements, you did it before October 1st. In my mind 2 days before or 7 months before makes no difference. Both are before October 1st.

[CMJeepster 2,780]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:53 PM, ALAN553 said:

The ACLU should be stepping in to defend the rights of those that have  physical challenges.

"They" don't want you to have firearms, let alone carry one.

[CMJeepster 2,780]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:33 AM, Tunaman said:

odd that the PTC use of force and qualification requirements on the NJSP website will not open.  I also notice that is was originally listed as a 7/18/23 date.  and now the date has changed to 7/21/23.  They are making it up as we speak.  What a bunch of bullshit.

Hopefully "they" corrected the grammatical and formatting mistakes.   

[JackDaWack 2,895]

22 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Here is the law:

 

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.

   2C:58-4. g.   Training requirement. (1) On or prior to the first day of the seventh month following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.), the superintendent shall establish training requirements in the lawful and safe handling and storage of firearms, which shall consist of an online course of instruction, in-person classroom instruction, and target training administered by a certified firearm instructor on a firing range approved by the superintendent and on the list of approved ranges published on the State Police website. The training shall include, but not be limited to, demonstration of a level of proficiency in the use of a handgun in such manner as required by the superintendent and training, developed or approved in conjunction with the Police Training Commission, on justification in the use of deadly force under State law.
 
   (2) A person who obtained a permit pursuant to this section prior to the first day of the seventh month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) and which permit is not scheduled to expire until at least one year following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) shall comply with the training requirement established pursuant to this subsection no later than the first day of the tenth month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.).

Supreme Court has ruled on ex post facto laws, many of us have our permits prior to the passage of and/or when the laws went into effect. "A person who obtained pursuant to this section" doesn't apply to people who obtained them when that law didn't exist.

Even better, the NJSP refer to the requirements as "interim" Indicating its not even "established", as it can change based on that language. 

It would seems the State is not doing itself any favors. 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

Supreme Court has ruled on ex post facto laws, many of us have our permits prior to the passage of and/or when the laws went into effect. "A person who obtained pursuant to this section" doesn't apply to people who obtained them when that law didn't exist.

Even better, the NJSP refer to the requirements as "interim" Indicating its not even "established", as it can change based on that language. 

It would seems the State is not doing itself any favors. 

that's the part that's been getting me.......

[bennj 215]

I qualified in August 2022 at Shooters and expeditiously received my PTC only 5+ months later in 2023. From what I understand, Shooters is of the opinion that it's course of fire is similar to HQC2, so no need to requalify? Anyway, in looking at the NJSP course of fire phase 3 requires using the "point shoulder position". Is the image I attached what they are requiring, or did they just copy/paste from the 1970's?

[xXxplosive 825]

More than half the country, now 27 states say this is all BS and unconstitional...........so here we are........omo.

[revenger 473]

To date,  Is there any clarification as to who has to re-qual and what ranges previous quals are being accepted?

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i think that gunforhire is probably our best source for now. he's not gonna fearmonger anyone