Any chance the FNH SCAR 16s will be available in NJ?

[autoxnyc 4]

I love the idea of a gas piston rifle. The SCAR seems to be an awesome gun. It seems to me the compensator/hider on it is classified as a muzzle brake. The only "evil" feature I guess is the folding stock.

[bbk 188]

You can always purchase a SCAR, have it altered to be compliant (not sure if FNH would do it in-house), and shipped here. Though, you're looking at 2000+ for the rifle itself, before anything else. As for the muzzle device, I'm looking at the official FNH SCAR site, and it lists it as "- Three-prong flash suppressor," so that would seem to be a no-go. As for the stock, I'm sure someone could figure out how to pin it, but I haven't heard of anyone trying to pin those types of stocks yet.

 

A bit off topic, but maybe there would be some interest for it, is the recent news of the Remington/Bushmaster ACR almost ready to hit the civilian market. Its only what I've read from different sources that are reporting from SHOT show going on right now (regarding the price), and maybe anyone who is there can comment. The ACR comes with a fixed stock variation, but all models have the A2 flash hider... so, that would need to be altered. The official Bushmaster site is up with the technical information: http://www.bushmaster.com/acr/

I've heard that the "Basic" configuration will start around 2600, and the "Enhanced" will be around 3000. While those are damn expensive prices, remember that with a simple change of the bolt, barrel, and magazine, and you can seamlessly change between 5.56 and 6.8SPC (among other innovations).

[autoxnyc 4]

I like the SCAR since it seems to be the only reputable gas piston option with a chrome lined barrel, LWRC and POF were the other ones I looked into. AFAIK they don't have chrome lined chamber/barrel.

 

As far as the muzzle device is concerned. on GB most SCAR 16s comes with a PWC brake:

 

http://www.gunblast.com/FN-SCAR.htm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =154197177

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

The Bushmaster (Remington?) ACR is being released, but the pricing on it is stupid high:

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/bushmaster-acr-launched/

 

...Now what you have been waiting for ...

 

The suggested retail price for the Basic models is $2,685 and for the enhanced it is $3,061! This is what I expected, although many were hoping for it to fall into the $1000-$2000 price range. ...

[Caine 147]

I'm 90% sure LWRCs are chrome lined. I'd be surprised if the POF isn't.

 

The ACR would be my choice as well, but, like others have said, at the price they're asking, I don't see it happening for me anytime soon. Not that the SCAR is much cheaper heh

[Shane45 807]

Check out the Robarm XCR. Far better than anything LWRC puts out and better than the SCAR IMO. They make a NJ compliant version with a pinned brake and non folder.

 

Shane

[Maksim 1,504]

Check out the Robarm XCR. Far better than anything LWRC puts out and better than the SCAR IMO. They make a NJ compliant version with a pinned brake and non folder.

 

Shane

 

I was about to say the same thing.

 

I saw a few at a PA gun show and build quality was great.

[Shane45 807]

My only complaint so far is a PITA break in period. They just dont run right until they are broken in. The manufacturer says about 300 rounds. I shrunk that to around 50 by manually cycling the bolt 300 times Once your beyond break in its a VERY reliable rifle. I know of several people with 5000 plus rounds and a few with + 10,000.

[joejaxx 38]

You can always purchase a SCAR, have it altered to be compliant (not sure if FNH would do it in-house), and shipped here. Though, you're looking at 2000+ for the rifle itself, before anything else. As for the muzzle device, I'm looking at the official FNH SCAR site, and it lists it as "- Three-prong flash suppressor," so that would seem to be a no-go. As for the stock, I'm sure someone could figure out how to pin it, but I haven't heard of anyone trying to pin those types of stocks yet.

 

A bit off topic, but maybe there would be some interest for it, is the recent news of the Remington/Bushmaster ACR almost ready to hit the civilian market. Its only what I've read from different sources that are reporting from SHOT show going on right now (regarding the price), and maybe anyone who is there can comment. The ACR comes with a fixed stock variation, but all models have the A2 flash hider... so, that would need to be altered. The official Bushmaster site is up with the technical information: http://www.bushmaster.com/acr/

I've heard that the "Basic" configuration will start around 2600, and the "Enhanced" will be around 3000. While those are damn expensive prices, remember that with a simple change of the bolt, barrel, and magazine, and you can seamlessly change between 5.56 and 6.8SPC (among other innovations).

 

Why would the flash suppressor need to be altered or the stock pinned if the FN SCAR is not a named weapon on the NJ AWB list or a clone of such a named firearm?

[Maksim 1,504]

because you can only have muzzle breaks... not flash suprressors.

[joejaxx 38]

because you can only have muzzle breaks... not flash suprressors.

 

Do you know where it says this applies to semi-automatic rifles not on the AWB list or clones of semi-automatic rifles on the list? Because from

everything I have read it says that these features only apply to firearms that are clones of firearms that

are on the New Jersey blacklist. None of these features (from what I have seen) are even listed in the NJ Statues

(with the exception of semiauto shotguns). The only reason these documents were created was for clarifying what components

makes a firearm a "assault weapon" clone of a firearm named in the NJ AWB blacklist. So I am wondering

why people are creating a blanket feature ban list across the board for semi-auto rifles that are not named

specifically in the "assault firearms" definition in the NJ Statues. I can see how the feature list applies if we are

talking about a non-Colt AR-15 vs "Colt AR-15" or even the Steyr AUG vs MSAR. I do not see how this applies

to the FN SCAR or the PS90 for example which are neither named on the list nor clones of semi-automatic rifles on

the list. Can someone (maybe an FFL or LEO) explain this if I am mistaken?

 

(From Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault Firearms Laws Issued August 1996)

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in

all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the

following:

a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

 

(From TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY CHAPTER 54. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS)

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation, which is substantially identical to any of the

firearms listed in paragraph 1 above [ie the NJ Named Assault Blacklist]. As used in this definition, the term "substantial" means

pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing and the term "identical" means

exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all

material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless

it is identical except for differences that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

 

Once again these component lists are only talking about semi-automatic rifles on the list or clones of rifles on the list.

[matt6669 71]

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

 

From what I read it gives your answers right there. It's considered an assault rifle as long as its semi auto and has 2 of the following which the scar has.

 

It says substantially identical but then goes on to say that the use of material, the change of a look, a change of material etc are NOT exceptions that alter the gun to make it not substantially different. So their blanket statement is right there saying if its a semi rifle, it falls under the list.

 

Welcome to NJ

[joejaxx 38]

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

 

From what I read it gives your answers right there. It's considered an assault rifle as long as its semi auto and has 2 of the following which the scar has.

 

It says substantially identical but then goes on to say that the use of material, the change of a look, a change of material etc are NOT exceptions that alter the gun to make it not substantially different. So their blanket statement is right there saying if its a semi rifle, it falls under the list.

 

Welcome to NJ

 

You are missing the part where it says "A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:". I do not understand why people are overlooking the critical phrase "named assault weapon". So just like my previous example (from my understanding) this would apply to a Bushmaster AR-15 because the "Colt AR-15" is named on the list and would apply to the MSAR since the Steyr AUG is on the list but NOT the FN SCAR NOR the PS90 or any other rifles not named on the list unless they are clones like the aforementioned examples.

 

If that was the case and they wanted to have a blanket AWB feature ban on semi-auto rifles they would have just added it to the definition of an "assault weapon" just like they did for the semi-auto shotguns in the NJ Statues:

 

(3)A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a pistol grip, or a folding stock.

 

(4)A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds.

 

Notice nothing about features on number 4 which once again comes back to the feature list only apply to weapons on the ban list or clones of such named weapons.

[matt6669 71]

But your missing the whole paragraph where it says manufacters can change certain things on the gun yet the gun is still substantially identical.

 

Join ANJRPC and call one of the lawyers on retainer. and I be they say exactly what I just said.

[PK90 3,570]

joejaxx is 100% correct here. I've said it before and will continue to say it, the "substantially identical" ONLY applies to firearms on "the list".

[DevsAdvocate 112]

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

 

From what I read it gives your answers right there. It's considered an assault rifle as long as its semi auto and has 2 of the following which the scar has.

 

It says substantially identical but then goes on to say that the use of material, the change of a look, a change of material etc are NOT exceptions that alter the gun to make it not substantially different. So their blanket statement is right there saying if its a semi rifle, it falls under the list.

 

Welcome to NJ

 

So, I can put a grenade launcher on an M1 Garand and it will still be legal?

[bbk 188]

So, pretty much give it a few months, and it will be on the list probably. Seeing how every other major battle rifle has made it on the ban list, I would think the SCAR or ACR will soon be added as well. Can you grandfather rifles if you get one before its banned? Or what? Even so, its a hot $3000+ right now.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

So, pretty much give it a few months, and it will be on the list probably. Seeing how every other major battle rifle has made it on the ban list, I would think the SCAR or ACR will soon be added as well. Can you grandfather rifles if you get one before its banned? Or what? Even so, its a hot $3000+ right now.

 

I doubt grandfathering. They will probably have a very short and largely unannounced registration period like they did last time.

[Caine 147]

Has anything been added to the NJ list since the original banned items were added?

[PK90 3,570]

No

[tbtrout 141]

So then what is the isssue? Is the phrase Substantially Identical twisted to mean it is a semi auto with a barrel & stock so it must play by the rules? I know in NJ it is vague to be confusing.

[The_Matrix 105]

joejaxx is 100% correct here. I've said it before and will continue to say it, the "substantially identical" ONLY applies to firearms on "the list".

 

+1.

[Shane45 807]

Well... to the original question, Id say its likely. The PS90 and the FS2000 both made it.

[Cylinder Head 22]

So wait, I can pick up a SCAR and I won't have to butcher the thing for NJ legalities??? Say yes and I'm off to Gunbroker.

[Shane45 807]

I am no authority on the slippery slope that is NJ firearms law but if you could perm pin the folding stock into a fixed stock and perm pin the "Brake" I would think that it would be.

 

Shane

[joejaxx 38]

Well... to the original question, Id say its likely. The PS90 and the FS2000 both made it.

 

They both made it to what? (Do you mean the NJ Assault Weapons Blacklist? They are not listed anywhere on it.)

 

So wait, I can pick up a SCAR and I won't have to butcher the thing for NJ legalities??? Say yes and I'm off to Gunbroker.

 

Yes you can.

 

I am no authority on the slippery slope that is NJ firearms law but if you could perm pin the folding stock into a fixed stock and perm pin the "Brake" I would think that it would be.

 

Shane

 

There is no reason to modify the FN SCAR to be "ban compliant" as the FN SCAR is not on the New Jersey Named Assault Weapon Blacklist. I went over this in a previous post in this thread and PK90 has confirmed it.

[Shane45 807]

Well I will go review the other thread BUT what I can tell you is that the Robinson Arms XCR isnt on the list either but to be able to be sold in NJ it had to be changed to non folder and pinned break. I think that you are incorrect that a SCAR would not need the same treatment.

 

What I meant was "made it in to NJ". FN seems to pay some attention to its civilian market, even the ones in Firearm unfriendly states.

[joejaxx 38]

Well I will go review the other thread BUT what I can tell you is that the Robinson Arms XCR isnt on the list either but to be able to be sold in NJ it had to be changed to non folder and pinned break. I think that you are incorrect that a SCAR would not need the same treatment.

 

What I meant was "made it in to NJ". FN seems to pay some attention to its civilian market, even the ones in Firearm unfriendly states.

 

If that is the case then I think that Robinson Arms is misinformed. I can buy an FN SCAR right now in its stock configuration and it will be 100% New Jersey legal. No need to change anything.

[Shane45 807]

I dont think its Robarm that is misinformed. The dealer I got mine from worked directly with NJ State Police Div of Firearms and proxied "State requirements" with an Order from Robarm. You, and others may be dead right as to the letter of the law but its been my experience that this state doesnt care much for the letter of the law, only with what they want to happen and I certainly dont want to be the "test" case. I would make a fairly stiff bet that if you showed up on a range with a bunch of law enforcement with a SCAR/XCR/ACR with a folding stock, you wouldnt be leaving the range under you own free will.

 

If on the other hand you turned out to be correct WITH something in hand from the prosecuters office proving legality, Id buy one the next day!(ok I might hold out for an ACR instead but you get my point )

 

Shane

[Shane45 807]

So whos gonna be the test case? :twisted: