Remington 700 on CNBC

[henrym 19]

I saw this on one of the fishing forums I frequent and thought id pass it along.

 

CNBC will be airing a special report on Oct 20.......

 

The Remington Model 700-series rifle —with more than five million sold—is one of the world’s most popular firearms. Famous for its accuracy, the rifle is now the target of a series of lawsuits alleging that it is unsafe and susceptible to firing without pulling the trigger. Remington insists its rifle is safe, trusted, and reliable, though a trail of death and serious injury dating back decades has prompted critics to ask whether this iconic American company has compromised safety in the name of profits, and gone too far in trying to protect its signature product. Senior Correspondent Scott Cohn’s report is the result of a 10-month CNBC investigation.

 

Might be interesting to watch...

[djg0770 481]

Great - another media hit job.

[vjf915 456]

Definitely want to find out the results of this....

[Parker 213]

Some prelim: http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936

[Maksim 1,504]

Some Remington 700's had an issue that they would fire even with the safety on. will find links to it later.

[Parker 213]

Ham-fisted tinkerers were sometimes at fault for inadvertent discharges. Anytime you brought the trigger pull on a 700 below 2.0-2.5 lbs., it was not uncommon for the gun to discharge if the butt was rapped on the floor or when the bolt closed on a live round if adjustments were not made properly. Remember early 700 triggers? When the safety was engaged, a tab on the safety switch locked the bolt in the closed position. In order to unload the weapon, one had to disengage the safety in order to lift the bolt. Hmmm, do you think this might have be an invitation for disaster? Remington wisely chose to change this design sometime in the late 80's or 90's, I don't seem to recall when but you can Google it. Now, the bolt can be opened to unload the weapon while the safety is engaged. Many 700 bolts post-change have on their underside the groove cut where this tab engaged to lock. Most 700 triggers today don't rival those that came out in the past. They've gotten heavier as lawsuits mounted. I don't think the 700 is unsafe, I think people are sometimes unsafe.

 

This NBC story is a good testament as to why the muzzle should always be pointed in a safe direction at all times.

 

*There are plenty of links out there on "how to" adjust the 700 trigger but unless you know what you are doing, best leave the work to someone who knows what they are doing. Remington certainly doesn't recommend it:

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/41

 

Savvy people who dare to go where others fear to tread can make do with the situation. Factory 700 triggers can be tuned to be wonderfully crisp too. To be frank, I believe Remington put those three adjustment screws there for an obvious reason.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Remingtontriggers.asp

http://www.theoutdoorwriter.com/shooting/r700_trigger.htm

http://varminthunters.com/tech/crisp.html

[Turbofire 2]

Glad i found out about this as the 700 is on my short list. While I'm sure the cnbc report will be sensationalized this seems like a well documented , legit problem. Here's the best hard facts i found on the subject walker trigger flaw. Its true muzzle discipline would have prevented injuries, but that still doesn't make the flaw acceptable. Fixed for 2007 and later.

[Sigman 41]

Great - another media hit job.

 

I don't need to get any info from libs that tell half the story or that have an agenda. No Thanks!!

[djg0770 481]

I don't need to get any info from libs that tell half the story or that have an agenda. No Thanks!!

 

My point exactly.

 

It's well known in the firearms community about the 700 and possible safety/trigger issues. This is not an attempt to inform users but rather an attempt to discredit a manufacturer, corporate america = bad. Firearms = bad. Hunters = bad. etc etc ad nauseum.

[Old School 611]

Some Remington 700's had an issue that they would fire even with the safety on. will find links to it later.

 

I have seen one dicharge first hand with the safety on when the bolt was attempted to be opened.

 

That was in the 70's. I would think they have fixed it by now. This was a stock out of the box rifle.

[OysterShooter 0]

I've owned and shot 700s for many, many years ... never had a problem with either the Walker trigger or the X-Mark Pro trigger they started using a few years ago. I saw a news clip a few weeks ago that the US Army signed a contract with Remington to use the Walker system for their Army snipers. Maybe it's not good enough for the news media, but it's plenty fine for the Army. I can't imagine the Army would sign on to a defect, so this sounds like another NBC anti-gun hit-job.

 

Keep on shooting and don't waste your time with this media nonsense!

[Parker 213]

Keep on shooting and don't waste your time with this media nonsense!

 

I agree. The 700-design has been kicking around in various forms (M721/M722) since the late 40's. The advent of the M700 in 1962 in conjunction with the 7mm Rem. Mag. pretty much sealed the 700's legacy. There are plusses and minuses found in every rifle action design out there today, past and present. The M700 is a good design with its rigid round action combined with its simplicity and lower cost to manufacture. Any experience I've had with Remington's date back to the 60's moving forward to latter versions, and they have always been positive. They are some of the most accurate rifles I own. All have been solid performers. I have no experiences with any new versions however.

[average joe 5]

I wonder how many of these discharges are related to people adjusting their own triggers. With the lighter pull, comes less contact with the sear.. Some may have gone to an extreme when making adjustments.

[henrym 19]

After watching the special a few things stick out in my mind. In some of these cases where individuals were hurt, the guns operator was not sure of what was beyond their target or backstop.

 

The other factoid that seems to stand out was the issue of a possible recall. It was disclosed that there were 2 class action lawsuits that were calling for a mass recall of every 700 rifle. The cost of this recall was stated to be roughly 300 million dollars, more money than Remington is worth. A mass recall of all 5 million rifles would cause the company to no longer be solvent.

[Blcklightning 11]

Just finished watching it. About 10 minutes in my wife, who was sitting on the couch on her laptop, asked me if I had one. When I said No she replied with "You never will". I do want one in .308. She wouldn't know if I got one anyway.

I didn't like the guy doing the interviews and don't really know what to think about the whole issue after watching. They focused a lot on the stories of accidental discharges and basically made Remington out to be an evil money hungry company that knew about the problem for years, but didn't care. :icon_neutral:

 

Didn't someone, a few months ago, on this forum have an accidental discharge issue with their 700?

[vjf915 456]

Yes, there may be an issue with Remington's trigger, but that is not what I am addressing right now. They talk about stories where someones kid gets killed, or their wife gets shot in the stomach, son gets shot in the wrist....each incident while the firearm was being unloaded. Thats POOR firearm handling. The firearm may have accidentally gone off either way, but it would not have killed anybody had they handled the firearm properly.

[crackaloon 15]

I just watched this and I know I won't ever buy one, when just yesterday I was sure I would one day.

The guy who designed the "safety" recognized the problem. That's good enough for me.

Have any of you guys loaded a bolt gun and run the bolt to unload it? Should it go off? No wonder there are a few injuries, it's an accident waiting to happen from day one.

[vjf915 456]

I just watched this and I know I won't ever buy one, when just yesterday I was sure I would one day.

The guy who designed the "safety" recognized the problem. That's good enough for me.

Have any of you guys loaded a bolt gun and run the bolt to unload it? Should it go off? No wonder there are a few injuries, it's an accident waiting to happen from day one.

It was said that the new x-mark trigger solved the issue.

[JimmyAGR 54]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39762676/ns/business-cnbc_tv/

 

A 10-month investigation by CNBC has found that at least two dozen deaths and more than 100 injuries have been linked to the signature product of an iconic American company.

 

The Remington Model 700-series rifle - with more than 5 million sold - is one of the world’s most popular firearms. Famous for its accuracy, the rifle is now the target of a series of lawsuits claiming that it is unsafe and susceptible to firing without pulling the trigger.

 

 

I don't know, I have owned a couple of 700's. 5,000,000 sold and 100 injuries? I think Toyota gas peddles caused more injuries. Not saying that there isn't a question, but the numbers seem really low if you are into statistics. I think ther are many products out there that have a worse injury rate then that. Just my humble opinion. YMMV.

[crackaloon 15]

It was said that the new x-mark trigger solved the issue.

Yeah, it just takes millions of used rifles off my consider list.

[henrym 19]

The 700 .308 I have has the new xmark trigger. Im looking to find the pamphlet on it if i still have it because id like to see if their wording on the safety.

[shazbot 3]

Hmmm... Do all new 700s have the new X-Mark trigger? It's only listed as a feature on some of the models on their website.

[crackaloon 15]

Hmmm... Do all new 700s have the new X-Mark trigger? It's only listed as a feature on some of the models on their website.

It said in the show that they still sell the older trigger side-by-side with the x-mark.

[tony357 386]

I see they mention the 2nd amendment keeping remington from being under attack by the goverment, I figured it would not go with out getting attacked..

[vjf915 456]

I don't know, I have owned a couple of 700's. 5,000,000 sold and 100 injuries? I think Toyota gas peddles caused more injuries. Not saying that there isn't a question, but the numbers seem really low if you are into statistics. I think ther are many products out there that have a worse injury rate then that. Just my humble opinion. YMMV.

Very good point. And like I stated earlier.....if these people were practicing proper gun handling, there would likely be 2-3 injuries.

[crackaloon 15]

I see they mention the 2nd amendment keeping remington from being under attack by the goverment, I figured it would not go with out getting attacked..

Yeah, that was thrown in there because they just couldn't handle sticking to the facts. I don't believe that BS for a second.

[vladtepes 1,060]

guns fail.. safeties fail... but a gun discharging with your finger nowhere near the trigger? I am sorry but no excuse for that... or worse yet.. discharging while cleanly engaging the safety? nuts..

[Maksim 1,504]

guns fail.. safeties fail... but a gun discharging with your finger nowhere near the trigger? I am sorry but no excuse for that... or worse yet.. discharging while cleanly engaging the safety? nuts..

 

+1.

 

Is the Remington 700 safety not the best design and prone to failure? Sure. They all are.

 

BUT, the bigger issue is unsafe gun handling. If your gun is cocked and locked, do you go pointing at your friends face?

 

Take the USPSA, there have been no deaths/injuries in the history of the events, held every week. Why? Proper gun handling and emphasis on preventing accidents from happening.

 

The issue with the Remington would occur if..... you position the safety in between the Fire and Safe position, pull the trigger, THEN release the safety.

 

remington released a response... http://www.remington700.tv/

 

also...

[Maksim 1,504]

ok, just played with my Remington 700 VS circa 2001 ish. No way I could get it to discharge even when trying hard to get the safety switch to stay between fire and safe.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I also stayed up to watch this. Knowing my whole life that the shooter is the best safety, i still fault Remington period. And this is a corporation being greedy. Putting all points of safety aside, the weapon should never fire unless the trigger is pulled! I give a lot of credit for that woman to be able to go on knowing that she was handling the weapon when it went off. If that was my son, and i started to find out there were many other discharges, i would be sleeping at the gates of Remington until they came out and admitted their faults. I was looking at getting a 700 in .308, but i would like them to at least admit there is a problem. Do the recall. Everyone sit back and think if it was your son, daughter, mother , father or wife that is killed accidentally, you would feel a lot differently. Remington can afford a recall, but they will make it seem like they cant. One thing i hate, is corporate greed. Sorry for the rant, but i cant stop thinking about that 9 year old kid!