Can you believe this sh*t !!

[JohnKimble 4]

We should just take the restraints off of citizens and let us handle it...if there was a stand your ground law here, gangs would leave NJ as there would be many CCW holders talking to the police about 'well he walked up to me in the parking lot with his hand in his pocket and said he was going to kill me, so I shot until the threat ceased'.

The cops would take the report, you go home, case closed....I DREAM!

[PistolWhip 13]

You can't allow companies or governments to simply eliminate higher paying, supervisory positions in order to replace them with lower paid, less experienced personnel. Other than obvious reasons why, it allows for zero job security and also reduces the ability to retain services in the public sector.

 

 

It's done EVERY DAY in Corporate America and companies not only survive - some even thrive. I'm not saying it's fair or right...

 

 

 

 

The same goes for corporate jobs as well. To assume that one desk driver can replace another desk driver shows an innate misunderstanding of anything that happens outside the "blue". Furthermore, each and every one of your arguments and points has been used by the teachers union as well. Please, in the future, try to at least inflate the big grey rat...

 

 

There you go putting words in my mouth again....

 

I never said anything about a desk driver, I don't even know what a desk driver is. I don't have experience with desk drivers and I don't speak out of turn about things I don't know about or things I don't have experience with like a lot of others that seem to have opinions about things based on zero fact and all propaganda.

I don't know what the teachers unions say and don't care to be honest. Plain and simple, your trying to used flawed logic to argue a point with me, yet you haven't even made clear what your point is. I don't even know what your trying to say here other than you don't like unions....

 

 

OldSchool, I appreciate your sentiments of safety, thank you for caring. What I don't understand though, is why I'm "wrong" and what exactly do you think I'm wrong about??? Am I wrong simply because I don't have the same point of view as you? Am I wrong because we disagree? I'm sorry, but nothing I posted in the post you quoted is "wrong." You all assume that my experience level here is simply as a Police Officer because of what you read and what my opinion is. I have experience on both sides of this argument and I have had plenty of experiences with corporate analysis companies, forensic accountants, private consultants, engineering consultants and private security consultants. It's expensive, trust me, I'm not wrong on that point. The other point is that anything that involves hiring or paying an outside private agency by that of a municipal or state government in the state of NJ requires a bidding process that further requires participants meet certain "criteria" that is established by higher levels of government. SOOO, not wrong there either. Now if you think I'm wrong because you don't think there is political influence on private corporations that involve themselves with government function, well sir, I rest my case....

 

Enlighten me if you have information or facts that you think make my point of view wrong because I'd much rather be right all the time, it's much easier....

[djg0770 481]

There you go putting words in my mouth again....

 

Please point to the previous time(s) I put any words in your mouth?

 

We all like to be right.

[dave545 15]

i like the blood hunting idea

[Old School 611]

OldSchool, I appreciate your sentiments of safety, thank you for caring. What I don't understand though, is why I'm "wrong" and what exactly do you think I'm wrong about??? Am I wrong simply because I don't have the same point of view as you? Am I wrong because we disagree? I'm sorry, but nothing I posted in the post you quoted is "wrong." You all assume that my experience level here is simply as a Police Officer because of what you read and what my opinion is. I have experience on both sides of this argument and I have had plenty of experiences with corporate analysis companies, forensic accountants, private consultants, engineering consultants and private security consultants. It's expensive, trust me, I'm not wrong on that point. The other point is that anything that involves hiring or paying an outside private agency by that of a municipal or state government in the state of NJ requires a bidding process that further requires participants meet certain "criteria" that is established by higher levels of government. SOOO, not wrong there either. Now if you think I'm wrong because you don't think there is political influence on private corporations that involve themselves with government function, well sir, I rest my case....

 

Now that this thread is totally hijacked

 

Here's why you are wrong but seem "right" in your own mind. You're not objective and have a vested interest.

Your union screwed you by allowing pension money to be spent in the general fund. Your union has gotten you better and better contracts over the years as a red herring. Those valued desk jockies you refer to as experienced or seasoned that are not best used on the street Who is going to direct those troops if you have no command and supervisory structure? In many cases these guys are politicians in blue. Additionally the Camden layoff issue occured after negotiations failed

 

 

It's a lousey corrupt system and you are only a pawn. This system is top heavy. I don't begrudge you a decent living by any means but if you look at the skill set required it's a lower management job. And don't tell me about the danger aspect...

Look at statistics.

 

Back to your union...Years ago there were armed "specials" to suppliment the work force. No more... You know why? So a regular could be on OT.

 

Until you see this clearly you will remain part of the problem.

 

And don't compare this to other unions... They don't compare. Trade unions get no sick days, no vacation and no early retirements.

 

Now I have lots of first responders of all kinds, family and friends. And you have to open your eyes. The public, read voters, read your employers, will not continue to bleed money for this bureaucratic system and you are the pawn.

[djg0770 481]

PistolWhip - I have to start by saying that I respect you as a person just as I would expect you to respect me. That said, I will go back to your post which caused me to jump into this fray:

 

Its not a matter of a UNION, its a matter of what's right.

 

Here's where I have a fundamental difference with you. IMO it's ENTIRELY a matter of a Union. The Union has had its hands deep in this situation and quite frankly is as much to blame as the government in this case. I can go on to cite specifics, however, you must realize that the UNION is not out for the UNION MEMBER. The UNION is out to protect their DUES, SOLELY. They don't give a sh!t about you or any other union member - unless you are related to or politically connected to someone that directly affects their purse. Wait until your neck is on the line and see how quick they sell you out.

 

 

You can't allow companies or governments to simply eliminate higher paying, supervisory positions in order to replace them with lower paid, less experienced personnel. Other than obvious reasons why, it allows for zero job security and also reduces the ability to retain services in the public sector.

 

Why not? The rest of the country has zero job security... Why are you special? (not sarcasm, please define why your job requires job security and mine does not)

 

AND I never said anything about anyone being more or less qualified. It has nothing to do with being qualified. Police work is no simply a matter of saying "here's a book of laws, here's a gun and here's a badge now go be a cop." There are certain parts of the job that require certain skills and experiences and training. Telling an administrative officer to leave his current position and go out and be a patrol officer is like telling a carpenter to weld a boiler together. Yeah, they're both skilled workers, but they don't have the same skills and training.

 

Here's the point I was making about the desk driver (or typical office worker - ie NON cop). Do you think this is any different in Corporate America? And yet things seem to get done and companies make money doing it.

 

 

The men and woman that are getting moved into these new patrol rolls are NOT unqualified and for the most part, are a great bunch of cops that have been put in the positions they're in because they're good at what they do. That doesn't mean the transition to a different position without any kind of time frame "blend" is going to be productive.

 

As much as many people may like to think it is, being a police officer is not as simple as putting on a uniform and arresting bad guys or writing traffic tickets.

 

If the people are not unqualified, then what is the problem?

 

 

Please understand, I'm not trying to be confrontational about any of this. I'm just trying to give you guys a brief glimpse of what its like on the other side of the fence. Trust me, I am one of the one's that truly believes SOME (not all, SOME) of the police officers in this position have put themselves there with greed, elitist attitudes and disgusting sense of entitlement, but that is NOT the case in Camden at all and its not the case with the majority of the Officers in the southern half of the state. Those cops are nowhere near overpaid or over compensated over there in Camden and if they were to give up what the city is asking for, they'd be crazy to risk their lives for the compensation they'd be receiving.

 

I think we can both agree that Camden is a sh!t hole as well as being a money pit. There is not an amount of money that can be spent there that will have a positive impact on the community. Unfortunately, Camden's residents will need to turn Camden around from the inside out. Until then, it doesn't matter if we mobilize the National Guard and have one Guardsman for each resident of Camden, it will not do the job...

[Malsua 1,422]

Why not? The rest of the country has zero job security... Why are you special? (not sarcasm, please define why your job requires job security and mine does not)

 

I hear the same thing when related to bankers. "Oh but we must give them million dollar bonuses, how else can we keep talent". Bah, let them go elsewhere. If this "talent" hadn't screwed the pooch, maybe we wouldn't be discussing the whole situation.

[PistolWhip 13]

Malsua, are you really taking this to that level? Are you really comparing municipal Police Officers to bank executives that get 8 figure bonuses?? Come on, really?

 

I guess I will have to bow out of this with the old sentiment that we are all men (and maybe woman, I don't know any of you) and we can agree to disagree.

 

However a few things that I will correct. MY Police Department and MANY around it still have employed and use regularly "special" police officers every day to supplement the platoons as full time officers take time off, attend training, are out injured, etc... We currently use special officers to cover shifts almost weekly. This has never been a Union problem and is not frowned upon by anyone in our area.

 

Secondly, the Union has nothing to do with the spending of our pension funds. That was done by the pension board who is basically elected just like the politicians that took the money in the first place. Ultimately our pension funds are governed by state elected officials who had direct and legal access to "borrow" from them at their will up until recently. Those officials raided the funds for decades, paying back NOTHING that they "borrowed" and that's why we're in the position we're in. I think some of you have a very flawed sense of just what a Police Union is now a-days. In all honesty, they are weak and flawed in and of themselves. All they do is supply the members with legal council to ensure workers rights (since its illegal for us to strike) and assist in the payment of bargaining unit arbitration should it be needed. In most cases, contracts in smaller departments like mine and the majority of the departments in this state, are negotiated face to face, by officers in that PD and elected officials.

 

I live and work in South Jersey where the median salary for a Police Officer is not even remotely close to the median salary for a Police Officer in North Jersey, so please understand the facts before you start lumping us all together. I agree 100% that some cops are WAY over paid for what they do, but that is NOT the case for ALL Police Officers. I have never once complained about the salary and compensation benefits I make and you will never hear me complain about it either. A "topped out" Patrolman in my PD currently makes about $67,000. That's the probably around the lower end of average salary in the Southern region for LEO. We don't have shift overtime at all, so there is very little added to that salary other than side jobs and the compensation packages we receive in health care (which we contribute to). All Police Officers pay 8.5% of our pay towards our pension system which rewards us with a 65% return after 25 years of service (not much different than most of your 401k's). I'm a Patrol Sergeant with only a Captain and a Chief above me, assigned to a multi-jurisdictional SWAT team and have a base salary of $72,000. I don't make anywhere near what others in my same profession make, but I don't really care or complain about that either. I'm not greedy and I don't think I deserve to be paid for "what I might have to do." I am paid for what I DO do and for that I believe I am compensated fairly and justly.

 

Finally, to say that Corporate America is functional and successful in the way its run right now is really another piece of extremely flawed logic in and of itself, but I don't want to go any further into this and will gracefully bow out.

 

I have a great sense of pride in my career yes, but I am not an elitist or someone that believes I'm entitled to something for nothing just because I wear a badge. I understand that we are not immune to the problems our state and nation face right now and I also understand that it would only prove me a greedy pig to believe that I'm "entitled" to anything more than the opportunity to earn a fair wage and the right to exercise the retention of of what I pay or work for. I work hard for what I have and I sleep well at night knowing that I deserve and earn my pay every day. I don't want more than I'm worth, I don't want anything for "free" and I will never be accused of taking something I didn't earn. I'll call it quits with this and hopefully from here on out, my profession can be as invisible as all of yours for my time here on this board.

[Shane45 807]

Pistolwhip, well said.

 

On the topic of Job Security, it is what you make it. Job security in the private sector comes in the form of a contract or employment agreement. But in the end in my opinion, across the board, private or public, job security is damn near a myth. True job security can only be obtained by having enough money for lawyers to draft a concrete contract and enough money to sue and win if they dont honor it!

[CageFighter 236]

Malsua, are you really taking this to that level? Are you really comparing municipal Police Officers to bank executives that get 8 figure bonuses?? Come on, really?

 

I guess I will have to bow out of this with the old sentiment that we are all men (and maybe woman, I don't know any of you) and we can agree to disagree.

 

However a few things that I will correct. MY Police Department and MANY around it still have employed and use regularly "special" police officers every day to supplement the platoons as full time officers take time off, attend training, are out injured, etc... We currently use special officers to cover shifts almost weekly. This has never been a Union problem and is not frowned upon by anyone in our area.

 

Secondly, the Union has nothing to do with the spending of our pension funds. That was done by the pension board who is basically elected just like the politicians that took the money in the first place. Ultimately our pension funds are governed by state elected officials who had direct and legal access to "borrow" from them at their will up until recently. Those officials raided the funds for decades, paying back NOTHING that they "borrowed" and that's why we're in the position we're in. I think some of you have a very flawed sense of just what a Police Union is now a-days. In all honesty, they are weak and flawed in and of themselves. All they do is supply the members with legal council to ensure workers rights (since its illegal for us to strike) and assist in the payment of bargaining unit arbitration should it be needed. In most cases, contracts in smaller departments like mine and the majority of the departments in this state, are negotiated face to face, by officers in that PD and elected officials.

 

I live and work in South Jersey where the median salary for a Police Officer is not even remotely close to the median salary for a Police Officer in North Jersey, so please understand the facts before you start lumping us all together. I agree 100% that some cops are WAY over paid for what they do, but that is NOT the case for ALL Police Officers. I have never once complained about the salary and compensation benefits I make and you will never hear me complain about it either. A "topped out" Patrolman in my PD currently makes about $67,000. That's the probably around the lower end of average salary in the Southern region for LEO. We don't have shift overtime at all, so there is very little added to that salary other than side jobs and the compensation packages we receive in health care (which we contribute to). All Police Officers pay 8.5% of our pay towards our pension system which rewards us with a 65% return after 25 years of service (not much different than most of your 401k's). I'm a Patrol Sergeant with only a Captain and a Chief above me, assigned to a multi-jurisdictional SWAT team and have a base salary of $72,000. I don't make anywhere near what others in my same profession make, but I don't really care or complain about that either. I'm not greedy and I don't think I deserve to be paid for "what I might have to do." I am paid for what I DO do and for that I believe I am compensated fairly and justly.

 

Finally, to say that Corporate America is functional and successful in the way its run right now is really another piece of extremely flawed logic in and of itself, but I don't want to go any further into this and will gracefully bow out.

 

I have a great sense of pride in my career yes, but I am not an elitist or someone that believes I'm entitled to something for nothing just because I wear a badge. I understand that we are not immune to the problems our state and nation face right now and I also understand that it would only prove me a greedy pig to believe that I'm "entitled" to anything more than the opportunity to earn a fair wage and the right to exercise the retention of of what I pay or work for. I work hard for what I have and I sleep well at night knowing that I deserve and earn my pay every day. I don't want more than I'm worth, I don't want anything for "free" and I will never be accused of taking something I didn't earn. I'll call it quits with this and hopefully from here on out, my profession can be as invisible as all of yours for my time here on this board.

 

 

Your attitude is far & few. Seems like u think along the lines of my brother who's in SCPD after 9yrs in NYPD. Keep up the good work. Unfort, there are alot more cops that think they are above everyone else, etc. Why cant the PD make concessions AFTER the contract is up for renewal? We ALL have given something in this economy to keep a job (except Obama).

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

.....................

 

 

the problem is simple....

 

the job is keeping the streets lawful...

 

if you have a budget of $XXXXXX.. and spend %90 of it hiring "leaders" then there will be no one left to do the work.... we have come to a point.. in public service.. schooling.. etc.. where everytone thinks they are entitled to "Dr." wadges.. they have unions that blow smoke up everyone's asses.. telling the union members how much they are worth.. and all this nonsense.. that is how you end up with superintendents who thin that a quarter of a MILLION a year is reasonable .. could you be any more out of touch with reality than that?

 

I have complete respect for cops.. and sure police forces need leaders.. but not tons of people doing useless nonsense while making six figure incomes... we need officers.. on the street.. that is what keeps us safe..

 

if we eliminated all the people in state government absorbing huge disproportionate incomes, and turned around and applied that to classrooms.. cops out on the street.. things that actually made a difference.. it would likely be a huge step in the right direction...

 

at the end of the day you have X amount of money.. you gotta split it between the workers and the leaders.. it has to be divided up as such to still get the job done.. and that is NOT what is happening at the moment..

[Malsua 1,422]

Malsua, are you really taking this to that level? Are you really comparing municipal Police Officers to bank executives that get 8 figure bonuses?? Come on, really?

 

 

My issue is not specifically police officers(My brother is a Deputy), it's the entitlement that bothers me. Here's how I view the world, if you do a good job, you get paid. If you do it long enough, and you screw up, you probably deserve a second chance, but in general, you can come to work tomorrow and get paid tomorrow. Beyond that? No one should feel safe, specially if you're living is earned at the expense of others, i.e. a public employee. The fact that there are jobs that are paid for by taxpayers that will ultimately lock step you to the top rank(or close) as long as you don't screw up is offense to me. You personally aren't offensive, the system is. People should prosper or wither based on their merits, not time served. Holding up those people that "we can't get rid of if you want to retain talent" is silly. You can get rid of anyone. If enough people leave and declare on their exit interview "Well, you eliminated the cushy administrator job that I was working towards" maybe the situation will be change but somehow I doubt it.

 

Finally, to say that Corporate America is functional and successful in the way its run right now is really another piece of extremely flawed logic in and of itself, but I don't want to go any further into this and will gracefully bow out.

 

Perhaps that's true but with few exceptions, corporate America and their employees pay for all the public employees. Yes, I know you pay taxes as well, but it's profits earned in the capitalist system that pays for the whole works.

 

I also agree with you that government completely ripped you off. It's been ripping me off as well. Welcome aboard. How about we shrink government and get it out of our lives? If that includes downsizing some people off of the public payroll, specially the dead weight, well, so it goes.

[vladtepes 1,060]

it's the entitlement that bothers me.

 

that is IMO why EVERYTHING is so expensive and there is no middle class..

 

teachers thinking they are entitled to make $100k working 9 months a year..

government hired janitors that are annoyed they only make $45k a year...

union auto workers who think that they deserve $40 $50 $60 an hour to put a car together..

 

sure just pass the money around.. it's worthless anyway..

[Old School 611]

If this forum is any indicator...The general public is getting sick and tired of big government and union protected employees, public and private sector.

 

And not to get personal but I guess I will... The screen name "pistolwhip" has the connotation of abusive violence and not appropriate for a "Constable On Patrol". How about a screen name such as "To Protect and Serve"

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If this forum is any indicator...The general public is getting sick and tired of big government and union protected employees, public and private sector.

 

And not to get personal but I guess I will... The screen name "pistolwhip" has the connotation of abusive violence and not appropriate for a "Constable On Patrol". How about a screen name such as "To Protect and Serve"

 

Good Post Frank. I thought "pistolwhip" was some kid but after finding out he's a popo I think the state is in trouble.

[PistolWhip 13]

Ok I guess I've won this debate because now you have nothing left to gang up on me about other than my dam screen name...LOL

 

My job doesn't define me it's a friggen job. I'm a human being and an American before I'm a cop and because of that I thought I'd be able to enjoy a common hobby with some other human beings that happen to be American's... But apparently I'm nothing but a job to some of you people. It's a job I enjoy and a job I take pride in, but it's a friggen job. You have a job right? I've been pretty dam up front and honest with all of you, what exactly do you do? What's your job that's so noble, you have the right to say anything about my screen name and make an assumption about my affinity to violence?

 

Your really going to start on a dam internet screen name now? I have a life outside my career and don't have to name myself on a dam internet forum to reflect what my career. Now by your logic, because my name is PistolWhip I'm a power abuser and an abusive violent cop??? Give me an F'n break, this is just getting ridiculous. If you have that much of a dam problem with me based simply on my career without ever meeting me and based on the lack of anything that's even remotely close to facts, that your going to start breaking my balls over my screen name.... You are clearly not worth my time in explaining or trying to enlighten you any further. If you must know (and why I need to explain my life any farther to you is still beyond me) PistolWhip is a name I've had for years on internet forums and it started as MmmmPistolWhip back when I first started posting on forums. MmmmPistolWhip was a reference to a scene in the Simpson's where Homer Simpson was eating whipped cream off of a pistol in a thought bubble as he mumbled "Mmmmm pistolwhip...." It has been shortened over the years, but it still refers to the same thing. I don't really care anymore what your perception of me is though. I'm done with this litte cry baby game that you play. You want things to change? Get your angry a** out from behind your keyboard and do something about it. Until you do that, your nothing but a cry baby that's part of the problem. I've proven my point to anyone that's not a stubborn jackass with a completely closed and created sense of reality. If you still refuse to give a man the benefit of a the doubt after all this, then well sir, I feel really bad for you and your sad sad little mind.

[PistolWhip 13]

Your attitude is far & few. Seems like u think along the lines of my brother who's in SCPD after 9yrs in NYPD. Keep up the good work. Unfort, there are alot more cops that think they are above everyone else, etc. Why cant the PD make concessions AFTER the contract is up for renewal? We ALL have given something in this economy to keep a job (except Obama).

 

 

Well thank you for at least giving me a chance. I don't think I'm few and far between, I just think that most of the time when people come in contact with Police Officers they are doing it in undesirable situations that sometimes shed an "unfaltering" light on attitude. If you get to know some of the cops in the world, you'll find a lot more of them are just like you and me.

 

As for concessions in our contacts, most people never hear the truth about that either. The media and political spin doctors don't want you to know that many police departments in the state have made some type of or multiple concession in the last few years. We aren't even in a contract negotiation and voluntarily opened our contract to give back $65,000 worth of concessions in order to help the municipality balance the budget. Not including the two administrators (that's the "top heavy, brass laden" department that we have, two administrators....) we have 12 "patrol officers." Now if we were making big 6 figure salaries, that wouldn't mean much, but I've told you all what we make and that's a pretty significant concession considering. We're not the only one's that have done this, I know almost every PD in my area has done it too. The problem is that many of the politicians have started to take advantage and are now seeing this as an opportunity to take advantage by either trying to force us to give back unreasonable amounts or by threatening layoffs that are proven unnecessary financially, simply to try to bully us into giving up more. We have to draw the line somewhere as we all have families too. We can't work for free. I recently read a forensic audit done on onw of these towns. It uncovered hundreds of thousands of dollars that were either hidden, "unaccounted for" or allocated to bunk expenditures. So basically the money was there to pay out all of the contracted obligations and responsibilities of the town and then some. But because of some personal agenda, attempts were made to hide funds so that tax's could be raised and salaries cut leaving surplus budgets of extraordinary amounts that then get allocated to shady real-estate deals that make no sense for the municipality. Obviously someone is going to prosper from those deals, take a guess who...

Thankfully, my municipality is not one of these. We have a group of politicians that are good people and I truly believe are trying to the best thing for the tax payers and employees alike and try very hard to make everyone happy, which is why we were so willing to try to help out.

[tbtrout 141]

And this instalment of Civillian vs Cop was brought to you by NJGF, where we all have opinions and attitudes.

Let's keep it lighthearted please. Just saying

[Old School 611]

Ok I guess I've won this debate because now you have nothing left to gang up on me about other than my dam screen name...LOL

 

My job doesn't define me it's a friggen job. I'm a human being and an American before I'm a cop and because of that I thought I'd be able to enjoy a common hobby with some other human beings that happen to be American's... But apparently I'm nothing but a job to some of you people. It's a job I enjoy and a job I take pride in, but it's a friggen job. You have a job right? I've been pretty dam up front and honest with all of you, what exactly do you do? What's your job that's so noble, you have the right to say anything about my screen name and make an assumption about my affinity to violence?

 

Your really going to start on a dam internet screen name now? I have a life outside my career and don't have to name myself on a dam internet forum to reflect what my career. Now by your logic, because my name is PistolWhip I'm a power abuser and an abusive violent cop??? Give me an F'n break, this is just getting ridiculous. If you have that much of a dam problem with me based simply on my career without ever meeting me and based on the lack of anything that's even remotely close to facts, that your going to start breaking my balls over my screen name.... You are clearly not worth my time in explaining or trying to enlighten you any further. If you must know (and why I need to explain my life any farther to you is still beyond me) PistolWhip is a name I've had for years on internet forums and it started as MmmmPistolWhip back when I first started posting on forums. MmmmPistolWhip was a reference to a scene in the Simpson's where Homer Simpson was eating whipped cream off of a pistol in a thought bubble as he mumbled "Mmmmm pistolwhip...." It has been shortened over the years, but it still refers to the same thing. I don't really care anymore what your perception of me is though. I'm done with this litte cry baby game that you play. You want things to change? Get your angry a** out from behind your keyboard and do something about it. Until you do that, your nothing but a cry baby that's part of the problem. I've proven my point to anyone that's not a stubborn jackass with a completely closed and created sense of reality. If you still refuse to give a man the benefit of a the doubt after all this, then well sir, I feel really bad for you and your sad sad little mind.

 

I guess this is directed to me... I'll try to be clear as it appears I'm not as eloquent and verbose as you.

 

You won nothing...The American people have only begun to whip our top heavy entitled government and government workers into shape.

 

You have some nerve referring to getting ganged up on. I've seen you be supported here at times. I've even agreed with you on some points. Get broad shoulders.

 

Screen names have traditionally said something about the poster. Although a lame explaination, yours still connotes something undesireable. The perception is the reality.

 

I'm not angry and not a cry baby. I have nothing against you personally. Probably a nice guy. If you don't want the heat stay out of the fire.

 

Get off your a**??? This forum is only the tip of the iceberg of activism that is sweeping the country. Get on board we could use your help.

 

Yes you are in a profession that provides a value service to most people. Thanks for that! But because you are out in public and paid by the public and you are under a little more scrutiny.

 

Oh BTW The reason I can afford NOT to be angry or a cry baby is I've been busy saving babies for the past 25 years,

and now have the luxury of commenting on what I see as wrong.

 

Be careful, do a good job and I'm sure you are more than welcome here.

 

BTW, change that stupid screen name. Remember the perception is the ONLY reality that you have. You could be the sweetest guy in the world and if you have a swastika tattooed on your forehead....

[yazamitaz 0]

should someone suggest we start hunting "Bloods" instead of Zombies??

 

I'm with you Cage Fighter !!!!

[Babaganoosh 192]

back to the topic at hand? Its been a week or so. Has any of this come to fruition? Anyone heard anything new about this?

 

APP.com still has this story on the front page but not much in the way of new info

[1563621 388]

When the aquariam opened in Camden, I said BIG mistake!!! How long of a line will there be this summer. What Jerk/off NJ politician owned that property!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'm shocked. Here we have a thread bat a violent gang targeting cops and a poor Leo killed....YET it spirals down to the idiotic rhetoric that is happening now......WTF???

 

Gents THIS is why they are winning.......

 

My .02

 

What do you want us to do? Make friends with the gang bangers? Make peace with the thugs? I'm not for shooting up a hang out but if a few get taken out I'm not gonna cry over it.

[hopper 36]

Im sorry but i gotta say this , We just had a cop brutally murdered a week ago here in NJ and people are gonna come on here a trash a police officer for his gun forum screen name , cmon have some respect for the guy , he puts his life on the line day in and day out and has to deal with all the filth and trash that none of us want to , im actually embarassed that somebody would treat him like that not even knowing him on here , very disappointed !!!!!!!!

[Old School 611]

Im sorry but i gotta say this , We just had a cop brutally murdered a week ago here in NJ and people are gonna come on here a trash a police officer for his gun forum screen name , cmon have some respect for the guy , he puts his life on the line day in and day out and has to deal with all the filth and trash that none of us want to , im actually embarassed that somebody would treat him like that not even knowing him on here , very disappointed !!!!!!!!

 

Get a pair! There are NO sacred cows here. You are right or you are wrong.

 

 

Mods Lock this thread it has turned into the height of idiocy

 

Edit: We all morn the death of this officer.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Im sorry but i gotta say this , We just had a cop brutally murdered a week ago here in NJ and people are gonna come on here a trash a police officer for his gun forum screen name , cmon have some respect for the guy , he puts his life on the line day in and day out and has to deal with all the filth and trash that none of us want to , im actually embarassed that somebody would treat him like that not even knowing him on here , very disappointed !!!!!!!!

 

Are you putting cops lives above regular joe shmos like me and old school? People are murdered everyday in this state.

[djg0770 481]

People are murdered everyday in this state.

 

And they usually don't get a statewide manhunt finding the jackwagon that perpetrated the crime, in record time.

 

And while i've brought up the "two classes" point, how many of you actually for a minute believe that if the 9yr old girl and the congresswoman had changed places last week that the 9yr old would have received the same treatment including a "special" flight to a "special" hospital in Houston?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Dan, the congresswoman is still alive and the murdered girl is second place? I'm not understanding this system.

[axeman_g 128]

Can I throw some intel into this discussion. Have a good friend, someone I highly respect for his service to the city of Camden for 30+ years. His son whom I know also, is high up in the Camden PD. His son used the line "too many Chiefs and not enough Indians" on the force during a discussion we had. It seems that EVERYONE was promoted by the last leadership and there were too many "staffers" and then they refilled the holes with new officers. His POV is that they were overstaffed. That laying off the street officers and demoting the staffers back to the streets was the smart thing to do. They were going to have to do layoffs. There is also the angle that nobody takes is that the population of Camden is plummeting, estimate in the 2010 census to be 70K people, down almost 10% since 2000 and 20% since 1990. Less pop, less LEO. Smart folks move out when they better their positions. Nobody WANTS to live their. Even the criminals.