Fil died, son came to NJ and took rifles to Montana without Paper work. Legal?

[RaisedByWolves 1]

Hello to my NJ Bretherin!

 

OK, the wifes Step father died and his son came/went to NJ for the burial.

 

While there he purchased a long case and packed up the guns against my MIL's protestations as these guns were not Specifically left to him in the will. She thought they should at least go through some process to make things "Legal", Her not knowing anything about the firearms laws in NJ but wishing to Err on the safe side.

 

He just packed them up and took them to Montana stating, " I live in Montana and these are friggin hunting rifles, theirs no laws there concerning this there.

 

 

Now she has contacted me as she is concerned about this transaction.

 

Im thinking there were violations of NJ law by the SIL and also possibly federal concerns also from the brief bit of reading I have done this AM.

 

And as he was not specifically mentioned in the will Re these items, I also feel they were stolen from my MIL.

 

 

 

Anyone up on NJ law that can chime in?

 

Thanks in advance.

[djg0770 481]

Call a lawyer.

 

 

 

 

 

troll

[GRIZ 3,369]

MIL's protestations as these guns were not Specifically left to him in the will.

 

She needs to talk with a lawyer. Preferably the one who handled the estate.

[djg0770 481]

There may have been a verbal codicil making his actions completely legal despite MIL's protestations.

 

Call a lawyer. Do not expect to get correct or cite-able legal advice on an internet forum - and certainly not one related to guns when this is foremost a property issue.

 

If she wishes to claim theft - call the cops, let them sort it out.

[Malsua 1,422]

Forget the below post. Wouldn't want to waste your time "dithering". Asshole.

 

I am not a lawyer so this is not legal advice.

 

Taking possession of the rifles in NJ broke NJ law since they were not left to him.

 

Taking possession of the rifles since he was not legatee was also a violation of federal law since interstate transfers require that guns go through the books of an FFL.

 

He also broke some probate laws or theft or whatever by taking them.

 

The chances that any legal authority will care about a few hunting rifles is very low. You could probably impede any further firearms purchase at a dealer by reporting it and getting some kind of judgement that would end up denying him on his next NICS check.

 

The family could sue him for the value of the firearms and win. Of course, good luck enforcing a judgement.

 

If we are talking about rifles that will fit in one case, how much can it really be worth anyway?

 

It was not done properly but the guy's dad just died, he may not have been thinking properly.

 

He's also right that in Montana, it's not going to matter.

[Vlad G 345]

Call a lawyer. I don't think there is an issue with the guns themselves because inheriting guns without any paper work is just fine. There might be probate law issues, and for that you need a lawyer.

[Malsua 1,422]

Call a lawyer. I don't think there is an issue with the guns themselves because inheriting guns without any paper work is just fine.

 

Inheriting guns that were designated to you in a will is fine. The issue here is that the guns were not disposed of in the will, therefore were the property of the mother in law. The son literally stole guns from father's wife and took them across state lines. It is very illegal on different levels.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Was she only protesting because she wanted the process 100% legal and didn't know how to make it legal or did she not want him to have th guns period?

 

If she was gonna let him have the guns anyway I think the best thing is just let it go. It's not worth the hassle and Montana won't care in the least. However if she didn't want him to have the guns that's a whole other ball game.

 

If she was gonna let him have them anyway nobody involved really wants the hassle of dealing with lawyers and potentially cops.

[djg0770 481]

It's not worth the hassle and Montana won't care in the least.

 

But the ATF might since it involves transporting firearms across state lines.

[Babaganoosh 192]

But the ATF might since it involves transporting firearms across state lines.

 

People transport firearms over state lines all the time. When I bought my Mosin at the Valley Forge show I transported it over state lines. The problem might be if she doesn't want him to have the guns.

 

If she doesn't want him to have the guns then this whole thing can turn into an ungodly mess, especially if you start involving lawyers, cops, and govt agencies. If she truly doesn't want him to have the guns then I guess you have to go that route though, since technically they are stolen.

 

I think she is worried about her getting in trouble for him taking the guns. That's why she wanted it done properly. However in my opinion (and I can be wrong quite often) if he was gonna get the guns anyway then just let the situation go.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

When I bought my Mosin at the Valley Forge show I transported it over state lines.

 

 

Yes, but your Mosin was transferred to you by an FFL. Just sayin'

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Unless specified, the MIL is the beneficiary of the items. Since it's in NJ, posession of the firearms was legal through the law (inheritance). Since the step-brother took posession of those rifles against her wishes, it pretty much amounts to stealing, as they are not his.

 

But yes, as the others have said. Lawyer up.

[djg0770 481]

People transport firearms over state lines all the time.

 

There's legal transport across state lines and there's illegal transport across state lines...

[SpecialK 193]

IANAL

 

Bottom line is your MIL won't get in trouble for the actions of the son. The son will not get in trouble in Montana of all places for having a few rifles from out of state. He could drive to Colorado, Arizona, or any other number of states and buy a long rifle face to face from another person no problem with no record of the transaction. The only problem is NJ here(what a shock). Montana won't ever ask him where the rifles came from.

 

If the issue is she is trying to keep the guns for herself, I would suggest that she informs her son to return the rifles or she will report them stolen and if he refuses to actually report them stolen.

 

*None of this advice is legal or illegal or even suggested to be applied to real world. It is merely for entertainment purposes. Once again I Am Not A Lawyer.

[Sigman 41]

Unless specified, the MIL is the beneficiary of the items. Since it's in NJ, posession of the firearms was legal through the law (inheritance). Since the step-brother took posession of those rifles against her wishes, it pretty much amounts to stealing, as they are not his.

 

But yes, as the others have said. Lawyer up.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but as others have said, all possessions go to the spouse unless directed through a will. It sounds to me like he stole them from her. Speak to a lawyer to see if it is worth recovering them. Are they valuable guns?

[Shane45 807]

Not a lawyer but... since he is the Bio son, his claim may be greater than hers. Time of aquisition may play into it. Maybe these were guns in the family for a long time, prior to the marraige passed down from father to son over generations.

[KpdPipes 388]

People transport firearms over state lines all the time. When I bought my Mosin at the Valley Forge show I transported it over state lines. The problem might be if she doesn't want him to have the guns.

 

If she doesn't want him to have the guns then this whole thing can turn into an ungodly mess, especially if you start involving lawyers, cops, and govt agencies. If she truly doesn't want him to have the guns then I guess you have to go that route though, since technically they are stolen.

 

I think she is worried about her getting in trouble for him taking the guns. That's why she wanted it done properly. However in my opinion (and I can be wrong quite often) if he was gonna get the guns anyway then just let the situation go.

 

Face to face transfer between residents of different states is a violation of Federal law. If the owner is here in Nj and he lives in Mt, then it SHOULD have gone through an FFL..even if it was only a "Log it in, then Log it out" paper transaction.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Face to face transfer between residents of different states is a violation of Federal law. If the owner is here in Nj and he lives in Mt, then it SHOULD have gone through an FFL..even if it was only a "Log it in, then Log it out" paper transaction.

 

Even for long guns huh? Learn something new every day.

 

Why is it ok to do a FTF with a resident of your own state but not legal to do a FTF with someone who is a resident of another state or if you are in another state?

[KpdPipes 388]

Even for long guns huh? Learn something new every day.

 

Why is it ok to do a FTF with a resident of your own state but not legal to do a FTF with someone who is a resident of another state or if you are in another state?

 

Because that's that the Feds say, I assume they want between-state transfers to go though a 4473/Nics process. That's why you can go to a gunstore anywhere in the country and Buy a Long gun..but a Handgun can ONLY be transferred through an FFL in your home state.

[The Dark Knight 11]

IMO, unless you're especially butthurt over the incident, let it be.

 

What's your intent here, to ruin some guy's life by getting him ensnared by unconstitutional gun laws? It's not like he took anything special from you. Unless the guns were rare, historic or sentimental, he could get them anytime he feels like in Montana anyway.

 

Let's face it, interstate laws are pretty much bs. They're nothing more than butthurt anti-gun states like NY and CA's little way of keeping their (law abiding) residents from buying guns out of state and bypassing their bs laws in the first place.

 

Now, I'm not saying it's cool to break the law or that you should do so. But unless you wear a badge for a living it isn't exactly your duty to make sure they're enforced either.

 

PS posting stuff like this on the internet is extremely dumb, especially on a small and specific forum monitored by state law enforcement agencies, such as this one.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Hey Dark Night, if I am not mistaken, KpdPipes does have a badge, and while many of us don't like some of the stupid laws in this state and others that really make no sense and don't do anything to stop crime, they are laws and like the song says, Don't do the Crime if you can't do the Time.

 

Harry

[DevsAdvocate 112]

No one will know or care. The ATF has enough going on importing illegal guns into Mexico, and NJ law ends at the Delaware River. Leave the bloodsucking lawyers out of this.

 

Montana won't give a **** where this kid got the guns from...

[Zed's_Dead 16]

The biological son's claim is not greater than the spouse's claim. Since a will is a written document, it cannot be modified verbally. Any codicil's must be in writing. If a person dies without a will, everything passes to the wife. If there is a will that leaves everything to the wife, with no specific bequest, e.g., "to my son, Bob, I leave all my rifles, etc.", then the guns still pass to the wife as part of the estate.

[The Dark Knight 11]

while many of us don't like some of the stupid laws in this state and others that really make no sense and don't do anything to stop crime, they are laws and like the song says, Don't do the Crime if you can't do the Time.

 

Of course. I wish law enforcement like Mr. KPD the best of luck in their ongoing efforts to track down a bunch of old rifles in Montana. I'm sure West Bumblefk PD will be most cooperative and useful in the search.

 

As for me, I leave the enforcement of laws to the people who get paid to do so.

[vjf915 456]

PS posting stuff like this on the internet is extremely dumb, especially on a small and specific forum monitored by state law enforcement agencies, such as this one.

Your post contradicts itself in the most extreme fashion. It is "extremely dumb" for you to come in here, and recommend that someone turns a cold shoulder to a federal law regarding firearms being. It is twice as dumb to, in the same post, state that openly talking about breaking laws on this forum is "extremely dumb".

 

Just like everyone else said, get a lawyer. This thread should probably be locked now.....

[Cavalier1979 0]

Not a lawyer but... since he is the Bio son, his claim may be greater than hers. Time of aquisition may play into it. Maybe these were guns in the family for a long time, prior to the marraige passed down from father to son over generations.

 

I was thinking the same thing.. In the end those guns are in Montana and probably wont be coming back. First she has to prove they were here in the first place unless there is proof those guns where here.

 

 

It can turn into he said she said and the lawyers will be the only winners. Almost sounds like there is more to the story. Why would she not want the BIO son to have those rifles?

[junkmanted 54]

Just talk to the lawyer handling the estate, And let him know you think they where very valuable custom hunting rifles worth thousands and make the taker of the property squirm.

 

deaths bring out the a** holes in family's

[djg0770 481]

...one post, no follow up...

 

 

TROLL.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

...one post, no follow up...

 

 

TROLL.

 

 

No troll. He posts quite a bit over on the PAFOA board. He came here to get the Jersey "slant" on things because that's where it all happened. Both boards have pretty much said the same thing although NJGF has been biased toward the illegality and PAFOA is probably weighted slightly more for the laissez faire approach, but the overall concensus on both boards is pretty much the same.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[djg0770 481]

No troll. He posts quite a bit over on the PAFOA board. He came here to get the Jersey "slant" on things because that's where it all happened. Both boards have pretty much said the same thing although NJGF has been biased toward the illegality and PAFOA is probably weighted slightly more for the laissez faire approach, but the overall concensus on both boards is pretty much the same.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I stand corrected. Still strange that there's no follow up. Not really certain that it deserved a negative feedback either.