Old Bridge Zombie 3 Gun

[EchoMirage 137]

Another issue was the some head shots where marked as misses. I couldn't see the "ring" on the zombie head as it was a faint color and even if you got up close it was still hard to see. The next match should do away with the ring and just go with the head.

 

your guy must have missed the briefing also. it was head shots, not rings. the only exactl defined target was the nose of the pig. everything else was headshots. and yet, again, on at least 1-2 targets i hit the lower jaw, and was counted as a miss.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

From what I recall from the briefing it was that only the rings count.

 

Also - Sounds like your RO was Tom Richards - he runs the actual IDPA at Somerset.

 

I'm glad I had Cameron as RO - he was very relaxed and worked well with the new shooters.

[EchoMirage 137]

Sounds like your RO completely missed the briefing then - that's bad. You were allowed to drop mags. Of course the only time I was really reloading was when my mags were completely empty. By STANDARD IDPA rules, you are not allowed to drop mags with bullets still in them. We weren't going by normal IDPA rules yesterday.

 

i was in the same group with M4BGringo and clangclang. it was the shotgun/pistol stage at the far end of the range. you had to shoot on the right side of a fence, then the left. anyone with the slightest bit of training would know when you go to the other side of the fence, it would be an ideal time for an admin reload. but the SO said 'in idpa rules you cant drop a mag with rounds in it'. well we werent doing idpa, were we. you dont have zombie boars in idpa, do you. this guy completely forgot the theme and purpose of the event. and its people like him that make me not give the slightest fyck about competition shooting, and i have absolutely no plans to try a 'sanctioned' event.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yeah that was stage 3. The first one I started on. We all ran our mags empty before reloading. USPSA guys would probably drop mag and reload on that one just like you guys did.

[EchoMirage 137]

i to remember someone saying that since the rings were hard to see, and some had rings within the head, but not extending to the side of the head, that ALL headshots would count, and rings were disregarded. i do specifically remember hearing 'even hitting the hair counts.'

[ronhonda 86]

i was in the same group with M4BGringo and clangclang. it was the shotgun/pistol stage at the far end of the range. you had to shoot on the right side of a fence, then the left. anyone with the slightest bit of training would know when you go to the other side of the fence, it would be an ideal time for an admin reload. but the SO said 'in idpa rules you cant drop a mag with rounds in it'. well we werent doing idpa, were we. you dont have zombie boars in idpa, do you. this guy completely forgot the theme and purpose of the event. and its people like him that make me not give the slightest fyck about competition shooting, and i have absolutely no plans to try a 'sanctioned' event.

 

That sucks, but I would not be hesitant to try a sanctioned IDPA match.

IDPA matches are run real well.

It seems that some of the RO's had trouble letting go of some of the rules that they shoot by.

[Zell959 40]

Zell959, where were you at yesterday?

 

Ended up in a different group that most of the NJGF crew. My friend & I were with the shorter RO who has some sort of green dragon/snake/etc tatto on his leg. I was the bigger guy with the group that was just behind your group right around when you elected to give up on the AK and call it a day.

 

 

 

In terms of rules enforcement, I'd definetly say everyone has to take the scores with a grain of salt. We had a similar dynamic in our group where everyone had mixed accounts of what was indicated at the rules meeting. Our SO ultimately went with any hit to the head (including Jaw/hair/etc) would count. He didn't call cover procedurals, but did call them for failing to shoot on the move if the stage called for it and/or wrong shot order/number. He also let dropped mags go.

 

What did everyone do with the targets with people in them? We ended up treating them as hit on a non-threat if you broke the plane on any part of them. I took a few due to hitting the wrists on the one with the victim already kind of tangled up with the zombie.

[Maksim 1,504]

Oh come on, did you have Fun? If yes... end of story. This is not nationals or anything, you are shooting Zombies for crying out loud. =P

 

It does suck though that all the ROs were not on the same page.

 

When is Old Bridge 3 gun? October? Ronny?

[ronhonda 86]

I think so?

I will not be able to shoot that match.

I will be using my new baby diaper rig by then.

[imperialfish 11]

This was my first old bridge 3 gun shoot and I must say I had a blast. We had a great group of guys and our RO was cool,calm, and very helpful. From what I remember at the briefing any part of the head would be marked as a hit including the hair. Our RO specified that only the ring will count as a hit which we where all ok with. Does anyone know when the next one will be.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Oh come on, did you have Fun? If yes... end of story. This is not nationals or anything, you are shooting Zombies for crying out loud. =P

 

It does suck though that all the ROs were not on the same page.

 

When is Old Bridge 3 gun? October? Ronny?

 

Heck yeah I had fun, I will certainly do it again too! I will question the shot order and other rules BEFORE I start a stage. I DID question shot order after reading the clipboard and followed it YET still got a procedural. I just laughed, didn't bother me. As long as I hit everything I was aiming at I was cool with it.

 

We were told that Zombies don't have guns and cover wasn't needed, but we tried to follow the intent of the layout.

 

Our RO was like the math teacher that wanted to see each and every step you took to get to the final answer............

 

It's all good. I'll be back with a Red Dot on my AK so I can get on target quicker. Still, I did pretty good with a gun I had only put 20 rounds through since I bought it 6 months ago!

[Maksim 1,504]

Heck yeah I had fun, I will certainly do it again too! I will question the shot order and other rules BEFORE I start a stage. I DID question shot order after reading the clipboard and followed it YET still got a procedural. I just laughed, didn't bother me. As long as I hit everything I was aiming at I was cool with it.

 

We were told that Zombies don't have guns and cover wasn't needed, but we tried to follow the intent of the layout.

 

Our RO was like the math teacher that wanted to see each and every step you took to get to the final answer............

 

It's all good. I'll be back with a Red Dot on my AK so I can get on target quicker. Still, I did pretty good with a gun I had only put 20 rounds through since I bought it 6 months ago!

 

And that is what counts. =)

[ronhonda 86]

The October 3gun match (if there is one) will be run by OBCATS.

Any announcements will be made on obcats.com

The match would be run like a USPSA match.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

The October 3gun match (if there is one) will be run by OBCATS.

Any announcements will be made on obcats.com

The match would be run like a USPSA match.

 

I think the IDPA matches at OB you can choose between handgun or rifle as well.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

This is directed at NO ONE in specific:

 

Some shooters (especially NEW to action games) tend to mix-up IDPA Rules and USPSA Rules. USPSA is the only one where you can drop partially loaded mags, shoot out in the open without cover, etc. This was still an "IDPA-style" Match, so you had to move & shoot at the same time instead of just standing there and popping Zombies. Penalties are mostly from unfamiliarity with the game or if you get caught "gaming the stage". I sometimes confuse the two when I shoot IDPA and revert to USPSA-style blasting myself, thus incurring those penalties. But I overcome them with solid hits "down-zero".

 

That all being said, if you never read the Rules, why are you complaining about the penalties? And the put-downs for the R-O's is extremely BAD FORM. IF you have a problem with a R-O, you handle it THERE AND THEN, NOT a day later on the internet like a whiny adolescent. The guys that do the work don't get paid to be there to be "ragged-on".

 

Nuff said........

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Since Ray can't watch embedded videos.......

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Mr. Plum (the guy that did the briefing) said the rules were lax since "zombies don't shoot back" and "head shots are what we want, even if you just touch the hair" yet the RO in question wasn't there and didn't listen to the shooters when they told him that. I was in the group behind him and watched him belittle other shooters. If I was in that group I would've either asked to be put in another group or handled the situation with that RO.

 

Unfortunatly (or fortunatly), me and another forum member in my group watched this and where quesitoning his methods. well, his girlfriend was there and she heard the whole thing and told him. Oh well, at least he knows the truth.

[vjf915 456]

From what I recall from the briefing it was that only the rings count.

 

Also - Sounds like your RO was Tom Richards - he runs the actual IDPA at Somerset.

 

I'm glad I had Cameron as RO - he was very relaxed and worked well with the new shooters.

Nick you are correct, the only area that could be scored was inside the ring. Clang, what you're referring to about a "wisp of hair" was if the scoreable ring reached outside of the head, it was to be scored only to the edge of the head.

[Zell959 40]

...This was still an "IDPA-style" Match, so you had to move & shoot at the same time instead of just standing there and popping Zombies...

 

Eh, I'm incline to disagree.

 

1) IDPA equipment rules? Nope. Direct quote from pre-match communication:

"Any kit will be allowed as long as it's safe. Go nuts, remember this is a zombie match."

"Pistols must be worn on strong side hip or leg..."

 

2) IDPA targets or scoring zones used? Nope. All specialty zombine targets & non-IDPA criteria for scoring (regardless of actual interpretation implemented)

 

3) Stages designed per IDPA guidelines? Not even possible due to targets used, some of which included threat & non-threat on the same target.

 

4) Need to use cover stressed during rules meeting? Nope. Quite the opposite as "zombies don't shoot back"

 

 

Given the above, as well as the overall tone of the rules meeting which stressed "having fun", it's sort of arbitrary to expect shooters to figure out on their own what potential IDPA guidelines might possibly still appy in a match that already bore little resemblence to standard IDPA competition. Calling procedural errors for dropping a magazine with ammunition or not reloading from cover when someone is headshoting a non-standard zombie target while wearing pounds of gear that isn't IDPA legal anway is like telling a kid he can eat all the candy he wants for dinner and yelling at him for forgetting that every meal should include a full serving of fruits & vegetables. The original reasoning for the guildeline is kind of moot at that point.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

What Zell said is spot on.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Ray Ray, we had the Nun that smacked the kids with the ruler sideways across the knuckles, you didn't.

 

I watched that video above. The shooter would have had a Procedural called for NOT shooting the far right target BEFORE he engaged that center target. That is what was done to one of the guys on my squad. I made sure to engage that far right target, then the center target, then move over to the wall and finish the rest, PLUS, we had to do them from Right to Left..........

 

Still, I had fun!

[Mr.G 8]

True - he insisted on slicing the pie. Strict and almost by-the-book (allowed dropping of mags). During briefing they said its not necessary slicing b/c zombies do not shoot back. But whatever, I had fun and not concerned on points. Don't care about my score, just want trigger time. I still appreciate the efforts of the organizers and leads. At least I know more now than before. Just think of it as a drill Sargent; Discipline-discipline and in the end, its for your own good. Helps with muscle memory. This is all voluntary and I appreciate the efforts of all those who are responsible for running the match. Thank you thank you! Bottom line, I had fun and learned things.

 

The biggest thing I noticed was total inconsistencies between RO's in how they ran each stage. Each one of them interpreted the course description differently based on their own experiences (preferences?) and as a result, there's no real way to compare times between each of the teams. As EchoMirage said, our guy was a real hard a**, calling out procedurals left and right. I also happened to notice that he wasn't at the actual intro/safety talk where the guy who ran the match (don't know his name) laid down the rules, or lack thereof, when it came to accuracy. He was wheeling his gun stroller over from the parking lot.

 

The very first stage we shot he was awarding credit for shots within the ring only, until his turn to shoot, and I "reminded" him that the head guy said that RO's should award credit for anything resembling a headshot, "even if it catches a wisp of hair," and it gave him a couple extra points, so from then on, we used the total head as an acceptable target area.

 

I'd like to definitely shoot more of these 3 gun matches. I also need to get my own rifle, stat. Big thanks to Krdshrk for lending me his SKS. I think whatever I buy (leaning towards a Saiga) will most certainly be detachable magazine fed and have nothing to do with stripper clips at all.

 

For anyone who's considering shooting one of these in the future, I think it would have been really beneficial to find a rule book and read through it first. I got called on TONS of procedurals (pretty much at least one for every stage that involved movement).

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Eh, I'm incline to disagree.

 

1) IDPA equipment rules? Nope. Direct quote from pre-match communication:

"Any kit will be allowed as long as it's safe. Go nuts, remember this is a zombie match."

"Pistols must be worn on strong side hip or leg..."

 

2) IDPA targets or scoring zones used? Nope. All specialty zombine targets & non-IDPA criteria for scoring (regardless of actual interpretation implemented)

 

3) Stages designed per IDPA guidelines? Not even possible due to targets used, some of which included threat & non-threat on the same target.

 

4) Need to use cover stressed during rules meeting? Nope. Quite the opposite as "zombies don't shoot back"

 

 

Given the above, as well as the overall tone of the rules meeting which stressed "having fun", it's sort of arbitrary to expect shooters to figure out on their own what potential IDPA guidelines might possibly still appy in a match that already bore little resemblence to standard IDPA competition. Calling procedural errors for dropping a magazine with ammunition or not reloading from cover when someone is headshoting a non-standard zombie target while wearing pounds of gear that isn't IDPA legal anway is like telling a kid he can eat all the candy he wants for dinner and yelling at him for forgetting that every meal should include a full serving of fruits & vegetables. The original reasoning for the guildeline is kind of moot at that point.

 

All of the above is hereby taken into consideration. So how come somebody couldn't ask the R-O which "IDPA-style" Rules apply and which do not? At the beginning of each Stage the R-O reads the Stage Description off of the clipboard, then usually asks, "does everybody got that?" This WAS an IDPA Match, so reloading from behind cover and not dropping loaded mags would be the NORM, and therefore almost a given. Hardly "arbitrary". Only big difference is the targets & non-threats. IDPA allows Tac Rigs for Cops, so for a 3-Gun Plum relaxed the Tac Rig issue and brought in a vendor to make sure folks had safe gear that would work.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm glad you all had fun.

[TheWombat 67]

Some pics first.

 

Question: What brand/model boots are you wearing?

 

thanks

 

TheWombat

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I agree with Smoking 50 - the rules did still apply - John did not say "IDPA Rules are out the window" - he just said that cover isn't a necessity. Some RO's may have taken that to heart, some may have stressed it more - that's all really. Slicing the pie and tactical priority was still in play and it was specified demonstrated.

[vjf915 456]

So how come somebody couldn't ask the R-O which "IDPA-style" Rules apply and which do not?

Nobody had to, because John went over all the rules before the match started. I understood his rules completely before we started, one or two RO's must have just not been paying attention. Maybe someone with the crappy RO should have pointed it out to them, or gotten John to re-explain the rules.

[Zell959 40]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

Yup

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Nobody had to, because John went over all the rules before the match started. I understood his rules completely before we started, one or two RO's must have just not been paying attention. Maybe someone with the crappy RO should have pointed it out to them, or gotten John to re-explain the rules.

 

That's just exactly what you do! It's even in the Rule Book! That's why the Match Director has the final say......

[HavocMan 13]

so having shot the 3gun match, how do you guys feel about the rig you currently have?

Just a general question to the attendees.

Also will you shoot more 3gun matches?

 

I'm a bit aggrivated that I was unable to attend this match - even as a spectator. The dang floods had other ideas for me this past weekend

 

As an action shooting newb, I'd also like to read some good AAR's from as many folks as possible.

 

What weapons were used?

What mags were used?

How did each one run?

What issues cropped up?

Any ammo issues?

What ammo did you use for each weapon?

 

What holster was used?

Happy with it?

 

What Nylon gear was used?

Happy with that?

 

Answers to question like these would be very helpful. From the videos, I see that a few folks used some kind of a 'gun cart'. How many folks use them? Everyone? 50%?

 

I realize that this is asking alot, however, speaking as someone who has no experience with any type of action shooting, answers to questions like these would be extremely helpful.

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

The Wombat, he is not on the forum. At least I don't think he is.