National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act Scheduled for House Floor Vote on Tuesday-HR822

[quikz 34]

My understanding bout HR822 as it exists presently and w/ the anti-gun amendments removed already, that I, livin in NJ, can carry IN NJ, w/ my valid FL-CCW &/or my NH-CCW...

 

I think NJ will fight to the end on this 822 thing and to their Last Breath on SAF and bunch of other things I forgot to mention.

 

But the elephant in the room is, if after it gets through the Senate, doesnt the PRESIDENT have to sign off? NO Pres would ever sign of on a standalone bill like 822 -imho.

[mrjam2jab 9]

My co worker and I had this discussion as well. He contacted the NRA ILA and asked, as a NJ resident would he be able to use a FL CCW permit, INSIDE of NJ. This was their response.

 

Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA.

 

As H.R. 822 is written now, your non-resident Florida permit would be valid in 49 states (excluding Illinois). Therefore, you would be able to carry in New Jersey with the non-resident Florida permit, abiding by all local and state laws.

 

There was an anti-gun amendment offered to H.R. 822 that would have made a distinction between resident and non-resident permits, but was defeated for the anti-gun results.

 

 

The NRA is wrong with this answer.

 

"24 in any State, other than the State of residence of the person,"

[Karatenurse 11]

10) The Congress, therefore, should provide

18 for national recognition, in States that issue to their

19 own citizens licenses or permits to carry concealed

20 handguns, of other State permits or licenses to carry

21 concealed handguns.

 

does not state a difference from Resident or non-resident permit, just states that you have a valid permit or license, either from your state or other states.

 

So I'm reading that as long as NJ issues permits to carry in general. They would be required to recocgnize any other states permit or license regardless of where you live or who issued the permit or license.

[MrSurfboard 1]

That's the way I read it. Of course, if it passes and non-residents can carry in NJ, but residents cannot, there would be an "equal protection under the law" challenge.

 

Don't count on it. NJ is a may issue state. The fact that they don't issue won't play into it. Nothing will change in NJ if this passes, bet on it.

[M1152 713]

I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see this happening let alone benefiting NJ residents. If it does pass and it is a legal “end-around” for us there would probably be an emergency NJ legislation session whereas the NJ legislators would likely draft a NEW State law to prevents this. That’s just my opinion.

 

I recently joined this forum but firearms have been a hobby for me since the early 1970’s. This is slightly OT but I called the NRA about six weeks ago because I wanted to see if they could advise me on how to obtain a CCW. I know the NJ carry permit is just about impossible to obtain so I figured let me call the NRA because they are always asking for donations and this is something I would like to obtain and obviously see passed. I was put in contact with the NRA- ILA division. I asked the rep why the last attempt to revamp the NJ CCW died; her answer (in so many words) was the NRA has written off NJ. She did refer me to an NJ NRA recommended attorney and he spent about 10 – 12 minutes on the phone with me. I was grateful for the attorney’s time and views on the matter.

 

The attorney cited some very specific examples of what could help you qualify for acquisition of a carry permit. One example was *something like* if you were a legal transporter of narcotics and could be targeted by bad guys; another example was if you were a machine gun dealer and needed to protect you & your cargo. Lastly, if you had a documented threat on your life, I suppose if you have to be beaten to within your last breath and they read your last rites and you made it back from the dead then, and only then may you qualify. As we already know obtaining a carry permit to be proactive does not qualify.

 

So my question is what happened to the bill of a few years ago that was supposed to re-do the current carry laws? I find it ironic that I have non-resident permits for four other states but I can’t get one for my home state. And with the exception of FL (likely because of volume) the three other states were processed in record time. I was hoping our celebrity governor would weigh in on the matter and also purpose legislation to dial back some non-sense firearms laws but he’s too busy NOT running for president. In the meantime his buddy, the Wisconsin governor just passed a CCW so what’s CC problem? I realize it all has to go though both houses however CC did ram pension reforms with the Democrat control of both houses so why can’t champion this cause? After all he is the Golden Boy of the Republican Party and the anti-Corzine, or is it just a case of meet the NEW boss same as OLD boss?

[BigHayden 77]

it just a case of meet the NEW boss same as OLD boss?

 

This...

[EX Carnival man 223]

For me I feel HR822 is a good thing. I already have a Florida CCL and I hope to be a Florida resident in 3 years. I still will own my business here in the shaft state of NJ but when I come back up I can finally carry a firearm from Florida all the way to NJ.

[Gregg 5]

Indeed. I certainly hope that's how it works.

 

 

I am merely the messenger - but yes, that was their answer to "Can I carry in NJ with a FL permit if HR822 becomes law?"

[hmmjak 2]

I am merely the messenger - but yes, that was their answer to "Can I carry in NJ with a FL permit if HR822 becomes law?"

 

that's probably why they gave you the answer they did. you didn't state as a resident of NJ. their answer is correct as a resident of anywhere else.

[quikz 34]

that's probably why they gave you the answer they did. you didn't state as a resident of NJ. their answer is correct as a resident of anywhere else.

 

I believe he DID ask the NRA, "as a NJ resident would he be able to use a FL CCW permit, INSIDE of NJ. This was their response."

 

I already see some 'weazel' room for NJ to do what PA once tried to do w/ outta state, non-res FL-CCW's, but was struck down by PA AG Tom Corbett at the time.

 

Still, the way I personally read it is: that the 'possessor' of a valid CCW permit, regardless of state issue, in a state that already has a permitting system (unlike IL), is 'allowed' to carry within that state, in this case, NJ.

 

But I see alot of weazel room again, as NJ could or basically WILL just come out and BAN carry permits (for "civilians") thereby nullifying HR822, -just like IL and perhaps DC.

 

Also, I believe HR822 named Puerto Rico in the Bill as a valid place for CCW.

[NJCK 5]

Are we reading the same bill? H.R. 822 will not change anything for NJ residents. It will force us to sit back and watch every out-of-state CCW holder carry, while the rest of us who have non-resident CCWs cannot - at least for a short period. At best, maybe it will apply some pressure to NJ to come back to reality, but I won't hold my breath for that time period and would be more surprised if NJ didn't strive to go the route of Illinois. It's not weasel room either, the Bill was crafted in its reported form not to step on the toes of States and it's pretty clear right up front that a resident of the state must have their home state's CCW. Note the specific reference in the findings (from the introduced version) and check the qualification of 926.D(a) last sentence. What is real grey is that those of us who cannot acquire a resident CCW, but possess one (or several) non-resident CCWs, do we get the same right? I suspect the legal arguement will be no based on this too simplistic Bill should it pass. Will we maintain the same reciprocity, or will the language of the Bill muddy the interpretation and we find our non-resident permits useless? Why else would Sec 3 be added for the GAO audit of non-resident permits in the Bill as reported in the House, which is different than the introduced version from February? I think people are latching on the poor summary of the legislation that missed the resident state exclusion instead of reading the actual, short text of the Bill.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I can't imagine that our trusted anti-gun politicians would allow everyone with a CCW permit from other states ro run around with guns. They'd go banana's make NJ a No issue like Illinois.

[quikz 34]

Prob is, I think it will die in the US Senate, hoping to be wrong. Either way I can get legit residence out of state easily.

[NicePants 58]

I can't imagine that our trusted anti-gun politicians would allow everyone with a CCW permit from other states ro run around with guns. They'd go banana's make NJ a No issue like Illinois.

 

Yep. I can absolutely see them going scorched earth if this bill passes. Sad, ain't it?

[tommy3rd 132]

They'd go banana's make NJ a No issue like Illinois.

That is where I think the problem will be...they're only going to affect around 1500 or so people throughout the entire state, so they won't have any issues doing something like that. They'll have a stipulation on armored car personnel being exempted or even grandfather the current people who already have one.

[NJCK 5]

That is where I think the problem will be...they're only going to affect around 1500 or so people throughout the entire state, so they won't have any issues doing something like that. They'll have a stipulation on armored car personnel being exempted or even grandfather the current people who already have one.

 

Last I could get detail on, NJ had issued right around 400 CCWs to private citizens but had a bit over 4,300 CCWs out to retired LEOs/armored car and other guards.

 

If it passes, it will be great for so many others but likely backfire on those of us here in NJ throwing our efforts backwards. If it doesn't pass, I can see the NJ spindoctors using it against SAF. I think the only shot we law-abiding firearms owners have in NJ is for our corrupt and bankrupt government to figure out they're sitting on a potential cash cow, but then again, they like to waste our taxpayer dollars fighting us!

 

I know, PA is just across the river. However, I'm not in for coming out of my house investment with no money in this market... I will continue to transport my unloaded handgun and ammo stowed seperately as required by NJ to the state line, step over it, and then carry with the several permits I have.

[mrjam2jab 9]

What is real grey is that those of us who cannot acquire a resident CCW, but possess one (or several) non-resident CCWs, do we get the same right? I suspect the legal arguement will be no based on this too simplistic Bill should it pass. Will we maintain the same reciprocity, or will the language of the Bill muddy the interpretation and we find our non-resident permits useless?

 

 

Nothing really grey about it:

 

“(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person,

 

Doesn't say must have a home state permit....

[Malsua 1,422]

Nothing really grey about it:

 

 

 

Doesn't say must have a home state permit....

 

No, it doesn't. It does however say "may possess or carry a concealed handgun in any State, other than the State of residence of the person"

 

I'm not sure how anyone can read that and think it says you can carry a concealed handgun in your own state of residence under this law.

 

Let's simplify it for us NJ people. "may possess or carry a concealed handgun in any State, other than the State of residence of the person NJ"

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I can't imagine that our trusted anti-gun politicians would allow everyone with a CCW permit from other states ro run around with guns. They'd go banana's make NJ a No issue like Illinois.

 

That would actually help us in challenging the law... it's the right to keep AND bear arms not just one or the other. For the right to work, you need to be able to own a gun and also be able to carry/display it to make it worthwhile.

 

At least with the current arrangement, the state can make a (poor) case that it allows folks to bear arms... just subject to some (un)reasonable regulation...

[Karatenurse 11]

I'm not sure how anyone can read that and think it says you can carry a concealed handgun in your own state of residence under this law.

 

As long as the state issues permits or licenses to carry a concealed firearm, THEY must recocgnize another states permit or license. DOES not stipulate that one must be a resident of the state that issued it, nor do you have to have a permit from your own state.

 

Just the way Im reading it.

[NJCK 5]

No, it doesn't. It does however say "may possess or carry a concealed handgun in any State, other than the State of residence of the person"

 

I'm not sure how anyone can read that and think it says you can carry a concealed handgun in your own state of residence under this law.

 

Let's simplify it for us NJ people. "may possess or carry a concealed handgun in any State, other than the State of residence of the person NJ"

 

Yes, it's clear as this... Unfortunately. The specific exclusion for resident State came with the reported version of the Bill along with the Amendment for non-resident permit study by the GAO. The Bill is very clear in this regard with the basic element being if you can get a CCW permit in your State of residence, then reciprocity will be honored. By making this difference from the introduced to the reported Bill, they've completely muddied up how those of us who cannot get a CCW permit in our resident state, but have non-resident permits from other States, will fair. I'm hoping there will be ZERO changes for non-resident permits, but the fact of the matter is that we could potentially see permit-issuing States do away with non-resident permits because of H.R. 822 because 1) they'd feel they'd not be necessary because of the reciprocity (too bad NJ), and 2) it would free up their funds and resources from dealing with non-residents (cases-in-point the added manpower that Utah, Florida, and Virginia had to add).

 

So, what my posts have been saying are that 1) H.R.822 will not make it possible for NJ residents to carry because we have non-resident permits in other States; 2) Because NJ does have a CCW permit system, our out of state armed brothers can carry concealed in NJ under H.R.822 until NJ squashes that - ala, Illinois; and, 3) this Bill has the potential to make it worse for NJ residents subject to how other States interpret it against their need for continuing with non-resident permits. That last is of real concern to me because I carry every day when out of NJ, and am realistic about the government here because I unfortunately deal with several branches of it every working week. A friend and fellow NRA Instructor is also a Utah CCW instructor has told me that Utah is actually in the red with the non-resident permitting due to the flooded requests, and every government likes cost cutting. See where I'm coming from?

[Karatenurse 11]

Yes, it's clear as this... Unfortunately. The specific exclusion for resident State came with the reported version of the Bill along with the Amendment for non-resident permit study by the GAO. The Bill is very clear in this regard with the basic element being if you can get a CCW permit in your State of residence, then reciprocity will be honored. By making this difference from the introduced to the reported Bill, they've completely muddied up how those of us who cannot get a CCW permit in our resident state, but have non-resident permits from other States, will fair. I'm hoping there will be ZERO changes for non-resident permits, but the fact of the matter is that we could potentially see permit-issuing States do away with non-resident permits because of H.R. 822 because 1) they'd feel they'd not be necessary because of the reciprocity (too bad NJ), and 2) it would free up their funds and resources from dealing with non-residents (cases-in-point the added manpower that Utah, Florida, and Virginia had to add).

 

 

this is true, they may just do away with Non-Resident permits if that were the case. Guess will just have to see how it goes,... !

[Gregg 5]

that's probably why they gave you the answer they did. you didn't state as a resident of NJ. their answer is correct as a resident of anywhere else.

 

Sorry, I should have clarified my above statement, but yes my co worker did state he was a NJ resident.

[CageFighter 236]

D-Michigan - John Conyers is a f**kin idiot!

[twentynine30s 1]

Its unbelievable the sh!t he's trying to fish with.. his best argument is "we cannot compare concealed weapon carry permit to a driver's license"

[Karatenurse 11]

I agree,,,, what about convicted drug offenders will be able to legally carry. wait they carry anyway.

[hopper 36]

Rep Bill Pascrell is a DOPE !!!!!!!!! He supports the 2nd amendment ..... bull !!!!!!!!!

[CageFighter 236]

Rep Bill Pascrell is a DOPE !!!!!!!!! He supports the 2nd amendment ..... bull !!!!!!!!!

 

the criminals in Paterson are killing people, NOT the law abiding citizens!

Pascrell WAKE the f**k up!

[CageFighter 236]

the stories the anti's are coming up with are unreal!

someone remind Holt that WE here in NJ, ARE NOT HAPPY with own gun laws!!

[Gregg 5]

 

someone remind Holt that WE here in NJ, ARE NOT HAPPY with own gun laws!!

 

Thank you! I for one have voiced my concern with him that I am NOT HAPPY with NJ's current gun laws. Where do they get this stuff?

 

I love how the anti's are all crying about states rights - how many of them voted FOR Obamacare and threw states rights to the curbside. A bunch of Hypocrites! more proof that the 2A, protects US, from them.