Denied by the City of Paterson, Now what?

[destro23 0]

wasn't there someone in here who had to have their picture taken on the spot? And they did it.. but questioned it afterwords? i'm sure he's got a sweet gun in his hands right now!!

[Underdog 1,593]

So you argued the system they have in place and told them they are violating your rights and refused to do it the way they want it done and your surprised you got denied? (Flame suit on)

 

Im not condoning what they did as right, but keep in mind your fighting a system that has so much red tape and bureaucratic BS that it could tie you up in court for years if you decided to proceed with an appeal. And even if it is proved that their extra form is illegal (and Im sure they ran this by a few lawyers first and got the ok on the form FWIW) what will you stand to gain after spending thousands on legal bills? A cash payout for violating your 2nd amendment rights? Not gonna happen, the best case scenario is they will have to give you your permit after dragging their feet for several months or years...Im speaking from experience of having tried to fight the system and can tell you what you should have done was played by their rules while in their house, got your permit and fire arms, then afterwards argued the fact that the form they required was illegal.

 

I understand your point, but all you did was tell people that are in charge, that they were doing it wrong, and now their basically punishing you for pissing them off and comming across as argumentative. I understand you wanting to fight the fight, but just be prepared for the consequences while doing so. You should have played by their rules then made an issue after you were free and clear.

 

i hope you stand up for your rights, they count on most people not pushing the issue any further, so when you rock the boat you will get hit with some waves and they will make up some back ground check BS to deny you...Good luck

 

FLAME SUIT ON!

 

Flame Suit not worth the time, as I believe Jules does have an ulterior motive.

 

Actually, I hate to admit it, but I agree in part. It would have been better not to have been the test case on this, as from now on whenever you finally get your FID card (assuming you are eligible and were not part of the Occupy movement, etc.), you will have to acknowledge that you were denied each time you apply for a pistol permit, and you will have some explaining to do... and apparently you will have to do that frequently and costly if you want more than one handgun. I would have complied with their form and documented EVERYTHING. In truth, I would have been angry, to say the least, about the 1 permit per application thing, but I would have documented it all and went to court with my FID card in pocket and then acknowledged the harassment and illegal actions of the police department, and all of the 2nd Amendment groups, NRA, etc. should have backed you, otherwise what are we supporting them for.

 

By the way, Jules, you need to use You're and your correctly.

[PK90 3,570]

To the OP:

I do not believe that you were denied for the "Public Health, Safety and Welfare" issue because of your request for two permits. There is something else. I would question the PD as to what that is exactly prior to you appealing their decision. You may have forgot about something in your past. If it was denied as you stated, you should definitely appeal. I have seen applications denied for a lot worse, then easily overturned. Good luck.

[Sigman 41]

+2 to Mcbethr for being a stand up guy and fighting for the cause. Awesome work! People like you make a difference.

[heaterbob 53]

^{as others have said file your appeal and tell it to the judge, I know of others that were denied and the judge overturned the denial. good luck.}

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Actually, I hate to admit it, but I agree in part. It would have been better not to have been the test case on this, as from now on whenever you finally get your FID card (assuming you are eligible and were not part of the Occupy movement, etc.), you will have to acknowledge that you were denied each time you apply for a pistol permit, and you will have some explaining to do... and apparently you will have to do that frequently and costly if you want more than one handgun

 

Full of fail. If you appeal and win, you have not been denied - the appeal and the granting of the FPID and/or P2P's is part and parcel of the same application process.

 

Where does everybody get this "costly" BS? Costly only in the terms of the time it takes up. This does not require a lawyer to appeal. If you are clean, and denied unjustly, you go before the judge yourself. You are already conversant with the law regarding additional forms and requirements. If you get shot down again (unlikely) then it may be time for a lawyer.

 

Sheesh, you guys on the forum are making it worse than the Paterson PD. How about a little show of support and encouragement instead of being such a bunch of naysayers.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[jonfoxx 4]

wasn't there someone in here who had to have their picture taken on the spot? And they did it.. but questioned it afterwords? i'm sure he's got a sweet gun in his hands right now!!

 

Uhhh, yep, that would be me, one purchase done and 2 more permits in hand...

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Full of fail. If you appeal and win, you have not been denied - the appeal and the granting of the FPID and/or P2P's is part and parcel of the same application process.

 

Where does everybody get this "costly" BS? Costly only in the terms of the time it takes up. This does not require a lawyer to appeal. If you are clean, and denied unjustly, you go before the judge yourself. You are already conversant with the law regarding additional forms and requirements. If you get shot down again (unlikely) then it may be time for a lawyer.

 

Sheesh, you guys on the forum are making it worse than the Paterson PD. How about a little show of support and encouragement instead of being such a bunch of naysayers.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Need my +1 button back!!!

[Anselmo 87]

Full of fail. If you appeal and win, you have not been denied - the appeal and the granting of the FPID and/or P2P's is part and parcel of the same application process.

 

Where does everybody get this "costly" BS? Costly only in the terms of the time it takes up. This does not require a lawyer to appeal. If you are clean, and denied unjustly, you go before the judge yourself. You are already conversant with the law regarding additional forms and requirements. If you get shot down again (unlikely) then it may be time for a lawyer.

 

Sheesh, you guys on the forum are making it worse than the Paterson PD. How about a little show of support and encouragement instead of being such a bunch of naysayers.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I've been denied twice and the judge granted my appeal without much ado. My local PD told me to fill out the FID application (3rd time) to say I'd been denied but granted on appeal. So, I think I still to say that I've been denied.

 

Either way, talking to the chief or mayor or whatever is a waste of time. You talk to the judge.

 

Here is what you do:

 

Write a letter to court saying you with to appeal your denial. Attach your application and denial letter.

 

Wait.

 

You'll get a court date.

 

You'll write a letter stating why your should appeal should be granted.

 

Wait.

 

You'll get a formal written statement from the prosecutor as to why your appeal should be denied.

 

You show up in court. NJ is a shall issue state. Burden of proof is on the prosecutor.

 

As to your argument it's up to you if you want to argue that extra form violates NJ law or you thought the extra form was optional and not required for your FID application.

 

BTW, I agree with Jules. Stop calling anyone with a dissenting opinion a troll. Groupthink is not good.

[O-gre 7]

Manalapan had 3 extra forms that I filled out. Got my permits in 14 days. You decide what battles you think are worth fighting. Me? I'm going to the range with my AR and two pistols.

[NJDrew1 0]

Sounds like you pissed them off, so now they are going to piss you off. I would have just filled out the form they asked for. I mean think about this, you have to submit your finger prints which is now registered in the FBI database. What was the big deal to fill out a simple form with your pictuure and get it notorized. I wonder if you will ever get to own a gun anytime soon. Good luck.

 

So, for the sake of expediency, he should have caved in and provided them with the form and a picture, which is not a part of the official State-required paperwork. It's that kind of attitude that perpetuates this illegal bull*hit. They get away with doing what they want, when they want, because people like you enable them. I can't wait to see how this plays out with NJ2AS intervening on this illegal process.

[nonova0074 0]

This whole post is insane, I know Keith. I work in a PD and it still took me 6 months to get mine. Stop being such a crybaby and fill out the form its not that hard

[Qel Hoth 33]

This whole post is insane, I know Keith. I work in a PD and it still took me 6 months to get mine. Stop being such a crybaby and fill out the form its not that hard

 

How about the town starts following state law? Its not that damn hard.

[NJDrew1 0]

This whole post is insane, I know Keith. I work in a PD and it still took me 6 months to get mine. Stop being such a crybaby and fill out the form its not that hard

 

And I repeat ... So, for the sake of expediency, he should have caved in and provided them with the form and a picture, which is not a part of the official State-required paperwork. It's that kind of attitude that perpetuates this illegal bull*hit. They get away with doing what they want, when they want, because people like you enable them. I can't wait to see how this plays out with NJ2AS intervening on this illegal process.

[Soju 153]

This whole post is insane, I know Keith. I work in a PD and it still took me 6 months to get mine. Stop being such a crybaby and fill out the form its not that hard

 

I wish for people like you to have to fill out some sort of form, or go through some sort of other illegal process in every aspect of your life. Need gas for your car? Fill out a form. Buy food at the grocery store? Fill out a form. Go to the movies? Get fingerprinted first. Cross the street? Sign a waiver.

 

After all, it shouldn't be a big deal and there would be no need to complain about it like a crybaby.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

BTW, I am a notary, if you need one. I wont charge you anything, but you have to come to me...

[nonova0074 0]

I agree that the whole process sucks, but its not that hard if the op would just fill out the form it wouldnt be a problem. And yes I filled out that form there was no special treatment for me

[NJDrew1 0]

I agree that the whole process sucks, but its not that hard if the op would just fill out the form it wouldnt be a problem. And yes I filled out that form there was no special treatment for me

 

Again, it might not be hard to fill out the form and have his picture taken, but that just encourages them to continue asking for paperwork that the law doesn't require. While it's a shame that the OP will not receive his FID and permits without putting up a fight, it would be nice to remove this obstacle once-and-for-all.

[Anselmo 87]

Fill out the form, get your FID, get your gun, donate to NJ2AS and let them fight the legal battle.

 

Now, you have to fight the battle without your FID. You'll most probably win your appeal but was your goal to fight the extra form in court or to get your FID in the shortest time possible?

[NJDrew1 0]

BTW, I am a notary, if you need one. I wont charge you anything, but you have to come to me...

 

 

I thought it was illegal for notaries to charge. Of course you'll notarize his for for free.

[Qel Hoth 33]

I agree that the whole process sucks, but its not that hard if the op would just fill out the form it wouldnt be a problem. And yes I filled out that form there was no special treatment for me

 

Wouldn't be a problem?

 

Guess we can throw away that whole Title 2C, Title 54, Title 39. I mean, breaking them isn't a problem is it?

[Underdog 1,593]

So, for the sake of expediency, he should have caved in and provided them with the form and a picture, which is not a part of the official State-required paperwork. It's that kind of attitude that perpetuates this illegal bull*hit. They get away with doing what they want, when they want, because people like you enable them. I can't wait to see how this plays out with NJ2AS intervening on this illegal process.

 

I disagree. You choose your battles. It's sort of like if a police officer decides for some reason to arrest you. Even if you know you are innocent of the charges, etc. your "disagreement" in that regard at that moment wouldn't help you one bit. Perhaps those that feel that he should have taken a stand might feel good about contributing to his defense fund if it comes to him needing a lawyer. And, when he goes to court on that day, who's up for going and showing your support in the matter and taking a stand?

[Underdog 1,593]

I wish for people like you to have to fill out some sort of form, or go through some sort of other illegal process in every aspect of your life. Need gas for your car? Fill out a form. Buy food at the grocery store? Fill out a form. Go to the movies? Get fingerprinted first. Cross the street? Sign a waiver.

 

After all, it shouldn't be a big deal and there would be no need to complain about it like a crybaby.

 

+1 and then some for Bonesinium!

 

I still think that there is more to this story than we know about.

[Rysdad 5]

Damn, I originally come from Mass and have no idea what planet you jersey folks came from. Even in the liberal bastion of Massachusetts this crap doesn't happen. Some of you people are actually advocating the total disregard of the law so that you can maybe get your gun. If everyone stood up to these asshole cops and said how they felt maybe some things would change around here. Instead we are all being slowly assimilated and are following our fellow lemmings off the proverbial cliff. Screw this!. I am doing the brave thing and moving to Virginia.

[Anselmo 87]

I thought it was illegal for notaries to charge. Of course you'll notarize his for for free.

 

No. there is a max fee that notaries can charge. Something like $2.50. My wife is a notary but she never charges and no most notaries don't charge that I know. Some notaries take it real serious with a log book of all their notaries. My wife does a thousand a year and cant be bothered with that.

[NJDrew1 0]

No. there is a max fee that notaries can charge. Something like $2.50. My wife is a notary but she never charges and no most notaries don't charge that I know. Some notaries take it real serious with a log book of all their notaries. My wife does a thousand a year and cant be bothered with that.

 

 

I stand corrected. As you say, there is a statutory fee of $2.50.

[johnp 45]

I disagree. You choose your battles. It's sort of like if a police officer decides for some reason to arrest you. Even if you know you are innocent of the charges, etc. your "disagreement" in that regard at that moment wouldn't help you one bit. Perhaps those that feel that he should have taken a stand might feel good about contributing to his defense fund if it comes to him needing a lawyer. And, when he goes to court on that day, who's up for going and showing your support in the matter and taking a stand?

 

Count me in!

[Justjules 0]

Jules, it's not a flame war. You do realize that they're illegally requiring additional paperwork which is not allowed by state law. It's basically an attempt to make the process more arduous, and to discourage ownership.

My suggestion was for him to play their game, get his toys, then AFTER he got his toys he could make an issue out of it and take whatever legal action he saw fit. But the way he did it, he pissed the powers that be off and now they will make him suffer. I know first hand from personal experiences, you cant fight City Hall, they fight dirty, so you need to play their game and fight dirty to.

 

My comment was not in agreement with what they did, but a mere suggestion on how I would have played my hand. Any other interpretation of what I said, is not required.

[Justjules 0]

So, for the sake of expediency, he should have caved in and provided them with the form and a picture, which is not a part of the official State-required paperwork. It's that kind of attitude that perpetuates this illegal bull*hit. They get away with doing what they want, when they want, because people like you enable them. I can't wait to see how this plays out with NJ2AS intervening on this illegal process.

You mean fill out one extra form and get your permit and be enjoying your new gun right now, as opposed to questioning the detective and costing yourself months and months of extra BS and aggravation and lost time going through appeals? Yes. It seems as if most of you guys are conspiracy theorists and anti government about everything and anything you can find...I totaly understand your arguments, but most of you are so obtuse you cant get past me being a part of the govt you hate so much, to take my advice. I have fought the system and realized a long time ago it is better to let them win a battle, as long as you win the war...

 

Smile,fill out the form,yes sir,no sir,thank you sir,get your permits and guns,then sucker punch them afterwards with a law suit or complaint...But hey, you guys know what your doing right? Keep up the good work!! OP, good luck..

[Rysdad 5]

You mean fill out one extra form and get your permit and be enjoying your new gun right now, as opposed to questioning the detective and costing yourself months and months of extra BS and aggravation and lost time going through appeals? Yes. It seems as if most of you guys are conspiracy theorists and anti government about everything and anything you can find...I totaly understand your arguments, but most of you are so obtuse you cant get past me being a part of the govt you hate so much, to take my advice. I have fought the system and realized a long time ago it is better to let them win a battle, as long as you win the war...

 

Smile,fill out the form,yes sir,no sir,thank you sir,get your permits and guns,then sucker punch them afterwards with a law suit or complaint...But hey, you guys know what your doing right? Keep up the good work!! OP, good luck..

Sorry Jules, but you just Don't understand the argument.