I give up...

[TK421 2]

 

so since criminals don't have to play by the rules means that no one should have to?

 

Um, yeah, the point is the rules are the problem because all they do is put those that follow them at a disadvantage when it come to their ability to defend their life from the criminals that simply ignore them. This was one of the issues I had with the retired LEO carry law, once retired we should all be playing by the same rules. And those rules should equally ensure all citizens the right to defend their lives.

[Dr.Jimmy Rustler 23]

Um, yeah, the point is the rules are the problem because all they do is put those that follow them at a disadvantage when it come to their ability to defend their life from the criminals that simply ignore them. This was one of the issues I had with the retired LEO carry law, once retired we should all be playing by the same rules. And those rules should equally ensure all citizens the right to defend their lives.

when you do that you also put loved ones down range to people behind the trigger with minimal training, are you comfortable with that?

 

LEOs are trained to deal with situations like that, more than your average joe atleast.

[vladtepes 1,060]

when you do that you also put loved ones down range to people behind the trigger with minimal training, are you comfortable with that?

 

LEOs are trained to deal with situations like that, more than your average joe atleast.

 

lets keep it in perspective..

 

LEO handgun qualification is a joke..

[Anselmo 87]

lets keep it in perspective..

 

LEO handgun qualification is a joke..

 

I think the LEO training is more the psychological training to take action and take charge of a situation than the actual handgun shooting.

 

The golf range is full of great golfers. Actually performing when under pressure during play on the coarse is psychological.

[Old School 611]

lets keep it in perspective..

 

LEO handgun qualification is a joke..

 

+1 Vlad... A bit off topic but consider this. We send young kids overseas with just boot training and let them carry small arms and big stuff.

 

They come back to The States and "no gun for you lad". Why?

[Old School 611]

I think the LEO training is more the psychological training to take action and take charge of a situation than the actual handgun shooting.

 

The golf range is full of great golfers. Actually performing when under pressure during play on the coarse is psychological.

 

Deleted! I was inappropriate.

[Kaiser7 33]

I too went through a time when I wanted to leave. I changed my mind and am glad I stayed.

 

I may have had my spats with you on the boards here BLF, but I'm glad you're here, and hope you stay.

 

 

OK, I obviously lumped all of you sincere, honest, gun loving, gun rights advocates into a group I should not have. All my comments were meant for those that intentionally or unintentionally take side with the antis. Sorry for any confusion.

 

You too, I think that you will be a valuable asset to the NJ Second Amendment movement, and the fact that you stand up for your rights, and believe that we all have a right to defense and RKBA.

 

you should NOT have to qualify....

you should WANT to qualify...

 

if you have to force a standard those people are already going to fail.. no point in wasting the time..

 

I agree. Though I feel safer knowing people around me are lawfully armed, I understand there are those who do not wish to have firearms. That's fine. Your right is the choice to Keep and bear arms, however I will be damned, and will fight against, those who wish to deprive me of such rights.

[Anselmo 87]

 

 

I agree. Though I feel safer knowing people around me are lawfully armed, I understand there are those who do not wish to have firearms. That's fine. Your right is the choice to Keep and bear arms, however I will be damned, and will fight against, those who wish to deprive me of such rights.

 

SCOTUS says we have the right to keep and bear arms in our house.

 

It's not a right if you have to ask permission.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I know where this guy is coming from. There are a lot of good guys on here but there are also a few soap boxes, high horses, finger pointers, circle jerks and name callers. Yeah you get that on all forums but it stops a lot of people from posting what they want to say. I know this because i get inboxed opinions and links. Personally me I never really cared what people thought of me or my opinion so I just say it. I know where I am in life and am happy with it. Believe it or not I helped run another forum for years and gave it up. Then got asked to come back and do it again. The 2nd amendment area I had added runs flawlessly. There isn't ever any fighting at all. Because there is no need for it. If 2 people have different opinion that's fine but being a dick never solves anything. I won't get into names but a few people on here just want to pick an online fight and that's just a stupid waste of time. I've said quite a few times in pm's and in other forums I didn't see me keeping my account here to much longer. Believe it or not other forums talk about this stuff. I'll check out another forum and someone will recognize my name and say "yeah I got tired of that site"and give a familure reason. I ran accross whole threads about how out of hand it's getting here. If that's what you want go for it. But it's not a good way to be. Now I'm sure someone from the peanut gallery will want to argue about this.

[Old School 611]

SCOTUS says we have the right to keep and bear arms in our house.

 

It's not a right if you have to ask permission.

 

Is that right? Not the intent.

[Kaiser7 33]

SCOTUS says we have the right to keep and bear arms in our house.

 

It's not a right if you have to ask permission.

 

You're right, that's why I gotta fight for my right..to party

 

 

I mean my Second Amendment rights, those too... and partying.

[Holeshot 3]

+1 Vlad... A bit off topic but consider this. We send young kids overseas with just boot training and let them carry small arms and big stuff.

 

They come back to The States and "no gun for you lad". Why?

That's easy, simplest way to keep said lad in check is to take his stick away from him when he gets back.

[One_crazy_dude 1]

When I read the op' post I thought this was gonna go in a different direction. As I kept reading I see it went way off of my thoughts. In my crazy mind I kinda feel the Same way about our rights.

 

We join NRA and nj2as but why haven't we protested like what happened in the Zimmerman case in Florida. A bunch of people made a lot of noise and got what they wanted. We here in jersey don't do things like this. I would like for all gun owners of N.j. To tell Mayers, governors, don't like guns well we will only vote for a firearm friendly runner up and stop voting. Let them know we dont like them.

 

Even gay people have accomplished more with there marches and protest. We as a community should find a way to fight for our rights instead of taking it as it is.

 

O.K. My rant is over carry on

[TK421 2]

 

when you do that you also put loved ones down range to people behind the trigger with minimal training, are you comfortable with that?

 

LEOs are trained to deal with situations like that, more than your average joe atleast.

 

Don't start that "they are better trained" bs, I have personally seen numerous cops over the years that are piss poor shots. I know three retirees I wouldn't trust with my car keys let alone a loaded gun. Bottom line if some ass-hat starts capping off rounds somewhere I'll take my chances with the potentially untrained good guy shooting back rather than cower in a corner waiting for him run out of ammo before he gets to me and my family, all the wile hoping the cops show up to do more than just write the report.

[Recon Racoon 49]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of these apply to this thread.

 

Its the internet. You need a thick skin to be on it. If you get butt hurt over a couple comments, then you're not going to last long here.

[TK421 2]

^^^^^LOL^^^^^

[Dr.Jimmy Rustler 23]

Don't start that "they are better trained" bs, I have personally seen numerous cops over the years that are piss poor shots. I know three retirees I wouldn't trust with my car keys let alone a loaded gun. Bottom line if some ass-hat starts capping off rounds somewhere I'll take my chances with the potentially untrained good guy shooting back rather than cower in a corner waiting for him run out of ammo before he gets to me and my family, all the wile hoping the cops show up to do more than just write the report.

thats your opinion but in my case id rather someone who i know is trained doing the shooting while my loved ones are in the same area of the booooolits

 

 

It's their job to deal with stressful situations

[TK421 2]

Yeah ok, you wait for them to show up, let me know how that works out for you. Like many have said "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!" I've been shooting for well over 36 years, I've probably fired more rounds than two average cops in their entire carriers would. I'm more PO'd about the law mandating my inability to be able to defend myself than anything else but that is another issue.

[ChrisJM981 924]

I'd be more than willing to pass any qualification test to carry. Just hold them at the Police Academy. I will agree adding stress to a shooting situation will greatly affect your performance if you're not used to the adrenaline, I found this out shooting IDPA and USPSA matches. Shots I'd make all day long at the range didn't have the same results under pressure. Shooting those events definitely is different from the range.

 

Some people on here don't think non LEO should carry. It seems to work in...44 states is it? Plus 2 that don't require permits to carry. Truth is crime will go down. People won't pull stupid stuff if they think they're going to get shot. Unless he/she is at a liberal rally. Definitely nobody carrying there.

[Dr.Jimmy Rustler 23]

when you shoot your gun you not only protect yourself but put everyone else down range in danger also. Do you have proper training on how to handle situations like that? how about drawing under real pressure? I never said you don't have the right to protect yourself.

 

36 years of practicing bad habits most likely you mean? you can't even stay calm over a internet discussion how are you going to handle taking on a target that is moving and shooting at you

[TK421 2]

when you shoot your gun you not only protect yourself but put everyone else down range in danger also. Do you have proper training on how to handle situations like that? how about drawing under real pressure? I never said you don't have the right to protect yourself.

 

36 years of practicing bad habits most likely you mean? you can't even stay calm over a internet discussion how are you going to handle taking on a target that is moving and shooting at you

 

 

That's pretty funny. In what way exactly am I not being calm? I merely stated that if you felt it prudent to wait for help to eventually show up in an active shooter scenario, good on you, that is your prerogative. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

I never claimed I was perfect but I was taught to shoot by my father, a Vietnam era Marine and police officer and my uncle a Vietnam era Army Ranger and also a police firearms instructor from Essex County back in the day. We all also used to shoot skeet and play paintball with a bunch of their cop friends often enough for me to know how stressful it can be to have a pistol marksman welt my ass almost every damned time I moved out from behind cover. Given that was a long time ago but I'm sure I can still effectively use cover and move as fast as any 55+ year old retiree out there. By the way, I go with my father twice a year, I see what passes for retiree's qualifying to carry in this state and it IS a joke. What I can't figure out is if that is all that is required why the hell do they need to do it every six months?

 

I do know one thing for certain, I'd be better off "taking on a target that is moving and shooting at me" with a firearm in my hand than with my d**k in my hand. Just saying.

 

Lighten up your superiority complex is showing. ;-)

[alec.mc 180]

nvm

[vladtepes 1,060]

nvm

 

+1

[TK421 2]

nvm

 

I saw it, they were good. And typical. But they are trained professionals. Scary!

[alec.mc 180]

+1

 

I saw it, they were good. And typical. But they are trained professionals. Scary!

 

indeed

[silverado427 10,839]

Finally I get to use this quote

[Duppie 73]

Finally I get to use this quote

+1

[Dr.Jimmy Rustler 23]

lol

[ExpendableRaj 1]

I do agree with the notion that CCW is some magical defense solution. The reality is, lots of people have CCW that probably are not well enough trained to actually use it to any benefit. Yes we all love to think we're tough guy gunslingers but paper targets don't shoot back, and it's a lot harder to aim when you're drawing from a holster tucked into your pants underneath your shirt in a Shop Rite parking lot at night and taken by surprise while pushing a shopping cart than it is when you unbox the gun at a nice well lit table at the range. A lot of people who think they can CCW may very well simply be so gripped by fear they cannot even draw, or overly confrontational to draw when the situation has not escalated yet. Or worse yet hit a bystander. Now I do believe in CCW laws simply because for every moron with a CCW are also good people with one and there's no law that can separate the two or decide who is worthy.

 

Also don't think I consider myself some CCW expert. Would I actually be able to defend myself if I had to? I don't know.

 

However if you think LEOs are the magical opposite of this, they aren't. Some departments including NYPD have as low as 17% hit rate. Why? Because they are people too and even with lots of training, self defense shooting is NOT target shooting or 3-gun competition or whatever anyone wants to liken it to. Yes the prospect of losing a match or missing a target is a rush, but not the gripping fear that you may end up 6 feet deep at the end of this "range session."

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I do agree with the notion that CCW is some magical defense solution. The reality is, lots of people have CCW that probably are not well enough trained to actually use it to any benefit. Yes we all love to think we're tough guy gunslingers but paper targets don't shoot back, and it's a lot harder to aim when you're drawing from a holster tucked into your pants underneath your shirt in a Shop Rite parking lot at night and taken by surprise while pushing a shopping cart than it is when you unbox the gun at a nice well lit table at the range. A lot of people who think they can CCW may very well simply be so gripped by fear they cannot even draw, or overly confrontational to draw when the situation has not escalated yet. Or worse yet hit a bystander. Now I do believe in CCW laws simply because for every moron with a CCW are also good people with one and there's no law that can separate the two or decide who is worthy.

 

Also don't think I consider myself some CCW expert. Would I actually be able to defend myself if I had to? I don't know.

 

However if you think LEOs are the magical opposite of this, they aren't. Some departments including NYPD have as low as 17% hit rate. Why? Because they are people too and even with lots of training, self defense shooting is NOT target shooting or 3-gun competition or whatever anyone wants to liken it to. Yes the prospect of losing a match or missing a target is a rush, but not the gripping fear that you may end up 6 feet deep at the end of this "range session."

 

So, don't carry a gun because you might not be able to shoot back or you aren't trained enough? Yeah okay

 

Raj, are you lost in space or something?