More crappy legislation on its way from Trenton

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

The following bill(s) have been scheduled for a committee or a legislative session.

A1683:

9/24/2012 2:00:00 PM Law and Public Safety

Committee Room 16, 4th Floor, State House Annex, Trenton, NJ

 

http://www.njleg.sta...illNumber=A1683

A1683 Criminalizes purchase or possession of firearms ammunition by persons convicted of certain crimes.

Law and Public Safety

Last Session Bill Number:

 

Johnson, Gordon M.

 

Johnson, Gordon M. as Primary Sponsor

 

 

 

 

1/10/2012 Introduced, Referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

 

Introduced - 3 pages PDF Format HTML Format

 

 

 

Sponsored by:

Assemblyman GORDON M. JOHNSON

District 37 (Bergen)

 

 

 

 

SYNOPSIS

Criminalizes purchase or possession of firearms ammunition by persons convicted of certain crimes.

 

CURRENT VERSION OF TEXT

Introduced Pending Technical Review by Legislative Counsel

 

 

 

An Act concerning purchase or possession of ammunition and supplementing chapter 39 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes.

 

Be It Enacted by the Senate and General Assembly of the State of New Jersey:

 

1. A person having been convicted in this State or elsewhere of the following crimes who purchases, owns, possesses or controls firearms ammunition is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree:

aggravated assault pursuant to N.J.S.2C:12-1;

arson pursuant to N.J.S.2C:17-1;

burglary pursuant to N.J.S.2C:18-2;

escape pursuant to N.J.S.2C:29-5;

extortion pursuant to N.J.S.2C:20-5;

murder pursuant to N.J.S.2C:11-3;

manslaughter pursuant to N.J.S.2C:11-4;

death by auto or vessel pursuant to N.J.S.2C:11-5;

kidnapping pursuant to N.J.S.2C:13-1;

robbery pursuant to N.J.S.2C:15-1;

aggravated sexual assault pursuant to N.J.S.2C:14-2;

sexual assault pursuant to N.J.S.2C:14-2;

bias intimidation pursuant to N.J.S.2C:16-1;

endangering the welfare of a child pursuant to N.J.S.2C:24-4;

stalking pursuant to P.L.1992, c.209 (C.2C:12-10);

a crime involving domestic violence as defined in section 3 of P.L.1991, c.261 (C.2C:25-19), whether or not armed with or having in his possession a weapon enumerated in subsection r. of N.J.S.2C:39-1;

leader of a narcotics trafficking network pursuant to N.J.S.2C:35-3;

maintaining or operating a controlled dangerous substance production facility pursuant to N.J.S.2C:35-4;

manufacturing, distributing or dispensing controlled dangerous substances pursuant to N.J.S.2C:35-5;

employing a juvenile in a drug distribution scheme pursuant to N.J.S.2C:35-6;

distributing or dispensing on or near school property pursuant to section 1 of P.L.1987, c.101 (C.2C:35-7);

distributing or possessing imitation controlled dangerous substances pursuant to N.J.S.2C:35-11;

possession of prohibited weapons and devices pursuant to N.J.S.2C:39-3;

possession of weapons for unlawful purposes pursuant to N.J.S.2C:39-4;

manufacture, transport, disposition or defacement of weapons and dangerous instruments and appliances pursuant to N.J.S.2C:39-9;

 

disarming a law enforcement officer pursuant to subsection b. of Section 1 of P.L. 1996, c.14 (C.2C:12-11);

carjacking pursuant to section 1 of P.L.1993, c.221 (C.2C:15-2);

human trafficking pursuant to section 1 of P.L.2005, c.77 (C.2C:13-8);

racketeering pursuant to N.J.S.2C:41-1 et seq.;

producing or possessing chemical weapons, biological agents or nuclear or radiological devices pursuant to section 3 of P.L.2002, c.26 (C.2C:38-3); or

terrorism pursuant to section 2 of P.L.2002, c.26 (C.2C:38-2).

 

2. This act shall take effect on the 1st day of the fourth month following enactment.

 

 

STATEMENT

 

This bill would make it a crime of the fourth degree for a person to purchase, own or possess ammunition if the person has been previously convicted of certain crimes. A crime of the fourth degree is punishable by a term of imprisonment of up to 18 months or a fine of up to $10,000 or both.

Under the bill, conviction of any of the following would bar the person from purchasing, owning, possessing or controlling firearms ammunition:

Aggravated assault; arson; burglary; escape; extortion; homicide; kidnapping; robbery; aggravated sexual assault; sexual assault; bias intimidation; endangering the welfare of a child; stalking; a crime involving domestic violence; leader of a narcotics trafficking network; maintaining or operating a controlled dangerous substance production facility; manufacturing, distributing or dispensing controlled dangerous substances; employing a juvenile in a drug distribution scheme; distributing or dispensing on or near school property; distributing or possessing imitation controlled dangerous substances; possession of prohibited weapons and devices; possession of weapons for unlawful purposes; manufacture, transport, disposition and defacement of weapons and dangerous instruments and appliances; disarming a law enforcement officer; carjacking; human trafficking; racketeering; producing or possessing chemical weapons, biological agents or nuclear or radiological devices, or terrorism.

 

 

Now me:

Since Gordon Johnson is the chairman of the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee, it's already a foregone conclusion that this bill will be reported favorably and go to the floor for a vote.

What a piece of crap feelgood legislation! Making it a 4th degree crime for an already Prohibited Person to possess ammo.

Sure - that'll stop the gang bangers in our cities, won't it??

[TheLugNutZ 21]

So basically if you have a clean record it doesn’t affect you? The problem i have is it may be a precursor to restricting online ammo purchasing...

[Njgunowner 2]

Eh, I was going to say. Isn't it already illegal for these people to have firearms in the first place? Did you send this to the guys over at NJ2AS?

[TheLugNutZ 21]

Eh, I was going to say. Isn't it already illegal for these people to have firearms in the first place? Did you send this to the guys over at NJ2AS?

 

It is i would assume. Maybe this is a way for them to make arrests for possession of ammo but without having the actual firearm on them. I can see why they are pushing for this. I am actually not 100% against it, as long as it isnt going to restrict someone that should be able to possess the ammo.

[PK90 3,570]

Step 1 to an ammunition ban.

[Bob B 103]

I'm interested in everyone's comments on this one. NJ2AS is analyzing it.

 

My personal take is that to criminalize possession of ammunition for prohibited persons, the crimes that are listed must exactly match those that would prohibit possession of a firearm, otherwise you will end up with people who may possess a firearm, but not ammunition, which is silly. It looks to me like this list may contain other crimes. At first glance, nothing stands out as egregious, but they always try and sneak something in. Is there a crime listed in there that has a very low bar, or is not the equivalent of a felony, or violent crime? For example, what exactly is intimidation bias? Perhaps a better approach would be to simply add "ammunition" to 2C:39-4 and 2C:39-7, which govern possession of firearms by those with criminal intent and criminal history.

 

The other thing is, if they are going to criminalize possession of ammunition for prohibited persons, then there is clearly no reason to keep hollow nose ammunition in 2C:39-3(f) since a bright line will be created by establishing that no prohibited persons my possess any ammunition. Only law-abiding citizens would be left, so no need for restricting HP's any longer.

 

Thoughts?

[Candide 0]

Step 1 to an ammunition ban.

 

Thats exactly it. They will chip away a little at a time under the guise of public safety or "common sense" restrictions. The ignorant and uneducated to firearms will support it blindly.

 

People say it will never happen, but I see the day in the future when pretty much all firearms will be outlawed. It's not in the near future but it will happen. Death by a million paper cuts is how it will go down.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I'm interested in everyone's comments on this one. NJ2AS is analyzing it.

 

My personal take is that to criminalize possession of ammunition for prohibited persons, the crimes that are listed must exactly match those that would prohibit possession of a firearm, otherwise you will end up with people who may possess a firearm, but not ammunition, which is silly. It looks to me like this list may contain other crimes. At first glance, nothing stands out as egregious, but they always try and sneak something in. Is there a crime listed in there that has a very low bar, or is not the equivalent of a felony, or violent crime? For example, what exactly is intimidation bias? Perhaps a better approach would be to simply add "ammunition" to 2C:39-4 and 2C:39-7, which govern possession of firearms by those with criminal intent and criminal history.

 

The other thing is, if they are going to criminalize possession of ammunition for prohibited persons, then there is clearly no reason to keep hollow nose ammunition in 2C:39-3(f) since a bright line will be created by establishing that no prohibited persons my possess any ammunition. Only law-abiding citizens would be left, so no need for restricting HP's any longer.

 

Thoughts?

 

That's a great analysis, Bob and accomplishes what I believe, their intent was, without any of the entanglements that would be possible as currently written.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[JayWilling 33]

My concern (beside the obvious chipping away at our constitutional rights) is that they are making it illegal for certain persons to possess a legal product. Ammunition is not a weapon.

The synopsis is large and broad enough, includes enough crimes, that the bill is suspect. I agree that there is probably something lurking in there that is over and above the "first glance" concept of the bill. AND...every step toward more control means less rights. I say go the way of NRA and try to squash it.

I like Bob's idea to simply add ammo to the existing laws. It's cleaner and it would be more obvious if they try to slip more cheap crap in with it.

[BigHayden 77]

I like Bob's idea to simply add ammo to the existing laws. It's cleaner and it would be more obvious if they try to slip more cheap crap in with it.

 

Unfortunately, NJ representatives don't listen to us.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Unfortunately, NJ representatives don't listen to us.

And with Asm Johnson sponsoring this bill AND chairing the committee hearing it, it is virtually assured of passing the entire anti-2A Assembly.

Our only chance is to stop this bill in the Sweeney-controlled Senate when it arrives there.

[vladtepes 1,060]

common sense dictates that laws do not stop criminals...

common sense then therefore dictates that laws govern law abiding people...

common sense then confirms what Paul stated.. the notion behind all this has nothing to do with taking ammo from criminals..

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Opposed. This legislation has no additional beneficial result that existing firearms prohibitions don't already provide and has the potential to be a wedge into wider ammo restrictions for less serious crimes as the list gets expanded.

[LorenzoS 100]

The other thing is, if they are going to criminalize possession of ammunition for prohibited persons, then there is clearly no reason to keep hollow nose ammunition in 2C:39-3(f) since a bright line will be created by establishing that no prohibited persons my possess any ammunition. Only law-abiding citizens would be left, so no need for restricting HP's any longer.

 

Thoughts?

That would be an entirely logical outcome. But good luck convincing the legislature to make it legal for people to have cop-killer armored vest piercing exploding hollowpoints. You don't need those for hunting!

[BlueLineFish 615]

I can see where this mug be a problem. As a cop how do I know if you have been convicted of any of these crimes. I have to get your record. So now are you saying I can stop anybody wih ammo and run them. Especially since it doesn't distinguish hollow point ammo.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

...As a cop how do I know if you have been convicted of any of these crimes. I have to get your record. So now are you saying I can stop anybody wih ammo and run them. ...

 

And this.

[Bob B 103]

I can see where this mug be a problem. As a cop how do I know if you have been convicted of any of these crimes. I have to get your record. So now are you saying I can stop anybody wih ammo and run them. Especially since it doesn't distinguish hollow point ammo.

 

That's a good point.

[n4p226r 105]

I can see where this mug be a problem. As a cop how do I know if you have been convicted of any of these crimes. I have to get your record. So now are you saying I can stop anybody wih ammo and run them. Especially since it doesn't distinguish hollow point ammo.

 

Wouldn't you still need cause to believe they illegally have the ammo?

[heaterbob 53]

will we have to start filling out a cert of eligibility to buy ammo is the question

[Soju 153]

Criminalizing the possession of anything is stupid and pointless. Why stop at just ammunition? ...

[n4p226r 105]

Why can't they pass A2695. That would be a good one.

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

Wouldn't you still need cause to believe they illegally have the ammo?

 

If just having any ammo under certain circumstances is illegal i need to find out if those circumstances apply. Just having a FID is not enough. I need to see if its still valid by running it. So i could detain you for investigatory purposes until i find out if either your FID is valid or you have no criminal history that applies here

[JackDaWack 2,895]

This is RETARDED! That's my opinion. The question that first comes to mind..... if you cant legally buy a gun, then what are you going to do with the ammo?Second, IF you illegally own a gun, what is to stop you from illegally buying ammo? Enforce the criminalization of illegally owning a gun and this law becomes pointless. Nuff said.

 

 

This law wouldn't stop or prevent anything from taking place that doesn't already, it just allows enforcement agencies to tack on another charge...

 

The only thing this would impact is shotshells and rifle ammo, you need an FID to but handgun ammo(prohibited persons cannot pass this) sooooo..... now you will need an FID to buy any ammo in nj... That is the point i would guess.

[n4p226r 105]

 

 

If just having any ammo under certain circumstances is illegal i need to find out if those circumstances apply. Just having a FID is not enough. I need to see if its still valid by running it. So i could detain you for investigatory purposes until i find out if either your FID is valid or you have no criminal history that applies here

 

Seems kinda backwards to me, but you are the cop. And even if you we're wrong, it's not like anyone could stop you. I guess that's the outcome of living in this state. Guilty until proven innocent as usual

[PeteF 1,044]

Wow this should really help.

 

The person who is gonna commit a murder, with a gun that is illegal for him to have will DEFINITELY be deterred by this new law. Way to go guys.

[/sarcasm off]

 

I'm glad to see they have fixed all the real problems in this state and have time and money to waste on this trash.

[Dan 177]

Another arrow in the quiver of the planned extreme "common sense regulation" <sarcasm> the anti-2A/Constitution folks have in store for us. Using extreme regulations and rules in order to promulgate their end goals which is to strip the population of our 2A rights. Nothing but false premise arguments.. used eloquently to confuse the uninformed that such legislation is something good.

 

After all, it stops "bad guys" from buying "bullets" right? To the informed, this proposed legislation is insulting. Unfortunately there aren't many informed people living in NJ....

[Guest]

A firearm is worthless unless it has ammunition ...... If you want to effectively ban guns..ban the ammo.....

 

This is a first step...then they will tax it like cigarettes etc.....

[Barms 98]

Aggravated assault? so any fight you get into (or allegedly get into) and get charged.. you are then banned? whoaaaa Nelly..

[BlueLineFish 615]

Agg assault would usually involve a weapon except in certain cases

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Agg assault would usually involve a weapon except in certain cases

 

This being NJ, the courts would rule a pair of fives being assault weapons......