School shooting in CT

[Arbelest 29]

Most like to cover their @$$ and be thorough.

[le_boudin 2]

for some reason I've started to have my doubts about the whole case...

 

today, the coroner said that the corpses had between 5 and 11 gunshot wounds... so, the gunmen used at average 8 rounds per victim... he killed 26 people... 26x8=208 rounds of ammo... furthermore, there were also bullet holes in the walls... hence the gunman had to have at least 220-240 rounds... according to the coroner all wounds were caused by a rifle ammo... so if he used an AR, so we talking at least twelve 20-rounder mags... according to the media the whole massacre lasted 3-4 minutes... the shooter killed 26 people in 4 minutes... and we are talking about 20 year-old untrained, troubled teen?

 

am I too paranoid?

[Soju 153]

Don't you dare try to inject critical thinking and question a tragic event like this! How dare you!

 

No, you are not paranoid. The media rarely reports things correctly either by design or because of misinformation.

[Caine 147]

Why would he be using 20 rounders? While CT does have some sort of AWB, I don't believe it includes a magazine capacity limit (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).. so, based on your theorized round count of 240, it was probably more like 8 30-rounders. Pretty easy to find gear that will hold that many magazines.

 

That aside, 26 people in 4 minutes does seem crazy.. but when you consider that the vast majority of those people were children who were probably huddled in a corner (makes me sick just thinking about this) and adults who probably weren't resisting.. then... well.. you can figure out the rest.

 

Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy paranoia though... especially with the ever changing "facts" of the story.

[Arbelest 29]

GSWs were probably through and through so an exact round count will be hard to get this early on.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

It's a reasonable assumption that he fired at piles of huddled children and most of the rifle rounds tumbled through multiple bodies eventually striking the wall behind them. Sick bastard.

 

Edit: dupe

[Parker 213]

WHY is that might you ask........

 

Lessee, back then you WORKED hard for a living.......

 

You probably prayed in some form or fashion...

 

You MOST likely believed in God.......

 

You most likely had a strong family unit with a moral compass.....

 

etc......see where this is going.........*ALL* of this started in the 60' with the hipsters......etc.... the erosion of the American Family....and family values....

 

Most people won't admit this, but your statement is true.

 

I grew up in a time when you could order a 1917 Enfield from Klein's through the mail for $29.95. I don't remember too many school shootings back then despite firearms being readily available. The school shooting with Charles Whitman at UofT was the first one of magnitude that resonated with the nation in my time.

 

Violence in schools dates back to the 1700's. In the last few decades it seems to have gotten progressively worse and the media onslaught is prodigious to ensure it stays at the forefront because it's newsworthy. Today teachers include with their normal curriculum of the three-R's; monthly training for lockdown drills. (It's sad that phrases like "active shooter" and "lockdown drills" have become part of a school's awareness needs.)

 

History of School Shootings in the U.S.

http://www.k12academ...s-united-states

[ruger9 0]

...

[Combat Auto 174]

Dave Grossman was just on Fox...He has it right and warned of this several years ago...It is the discusting video game industry teching our kids how to kill..He said this! He is the formost leader in the military/law inforcment industry on the phchology of killing...This is where Oboma needs to concentrate...That, and bringing the Lord back into our society...A Godless society is not good for anyone...These kids have a spiritual vacume, which is filled by the animals motivated by money making videos, not to mentioned some of the ultra-exteemly violent movies.

[RubberBullets 65]

Dave Grossman was just on Fox...He has it right and warned of this several years ago...It is the discusting video game industry teching our kids how to kill..He said this! He is the formost leader in the military/law inforcment industry on the phchology of killing...This is where Oboma needs to concentrate...That, and bringing the Lord back into our society...A Godless society is not good for anyone...These kids have a spiritual vacume, which is filled by the animals motivated by money making videos, not to mentioned some of the ultra-exteemly violent movies.

 

This is a whole hell lotta NO.

 

While im not young anymore I found myself on the forefront of violent games in my youth. I watch violent movies, and would have nothing of ANYONE's religion. Not once have I or my friends who weathered the dangerous toils of gaming and violent movieland thought of committing heinous acts of violence in the real world.

 

This problem lays socially in the roots of HOW we raise our children. Absent or piss poor parenting does not instill the values and respect once commanded by society. We hide behind a computer screen under a veil of anonymity without fear of real life repercussions. We as a society have trumped up our laws so much that any interference from outside entities is considered a privacy violation. Without correction of course the children continue on without learning life's lessons of respect and common decency. Couple all of this with the increase of mental health deficiencies and you have a powder keg of unpredictability waiting to erupt.

 

Maybe the 50's "fear of god" era helped build a traditional "morale" family base, but purely because we as a selfish people didnt want to go to hell. Since we are delving into fiction I believe Grand Moff Tarkin said it best "Fear will keep them in line". Which I believe is the cue both religion, and govt take to rule its subjects.

 

Do not blatantly paint atheism as the bane of our society. Faith and morality are not an exclusive pair. There are plenty of bodies stacked up over the past few decades in the name of the lord.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Wow the video game argument. Please...I know a ton of people who play video games, and violent ones, who are well adjusted members of society. This comes down to 2 things. The untreated mental disorder of the perp and the fact that his mother allowed him access to her firearms. This is her fault. He couldn't get a gun at Dicks days prior because he would have failed the background check. Had he not been able to access his moms guns then we wouldn't be discussing this. Moms fault

[forayzor 1]

Wow the video game argument. Please...I know a ton of people who play video games, and violent ones, who are well adjusted members of society. This comes down to 2 things. The untreated mental disorder of the perp and the fact that his mother allowed him access to her firearms. This is her fault. He couldn't get a gun at Dicks days prior because he would have failed the background check. Had he not been able to access his moms guns then we wouldn't be discussing this. Moms fault

 

On par with all your other posts throughout this thread, this is exactly right.

[NJScott 15]

Maybe it's just me, but Dave Grossman came across as a damned tool on that Fox appearance, his credentials and background notwithstanding. How many times exactly did he tout his website? And why did he carry on like he did, having to be interrupted several times from his diatribes in which he constantly repeated the litany of recent shooting sites?

 

Add to that the video game argument, and I don't think it was an effective appearance or convincing thesis at all, IMO.

 

I grew up in an era with NO video games. We had TV shows that had violent content (the multitude of Western shoot-em-up's; "Combat"; "Rat Patrol", etc.), but oddly, they never showed copious amounts of blood coming out of the victims or showed gore of any type. We constantly played with our toy guns outside, in the schoolyard, outside of church, and aside from stickball and other street games, "shooting" each other was pretty much our favorite activity from that era. If I had a dime for every time I yelled out "Bang! Gotcha, you're DEAD!", I'd be retired by now. Yet, not ONE of the neighborhood kids I grew up with went bad from that kind of childhood, and neither did I.

 

I agree wholeheartedly (wow) with RubberBullets above: it is the piss-poor parenting that can be blamed for a lot of what we are dealing with in society today. Decency, compassion and values seem to be something that isn't on the menu in a lot of homes these days.

[bbk 188]

I brought up Grossman earlier in the thread, and for the sake of not making this an essay, his argument is not that video games are to fault specifically. His argument lies in the gradual desensitization of society [towards violence] through things like video games and other sensory/reality deprivation products (movies, mass media, etc.). This gradual desensitization is due to the governments studies to find more effective individuals in combat (really, it was an Air Force study conducted with other government agencies to determine which types of people would react more effectively in combat). Tie this gradual desensitization towards violence with the general lack of awareness of proper firearms mindset and ownership, and its a ticking time-bomb. What makes this argument logical and valid is that this gradual desensitization/lack of proper gun culture combination is found across the board, and not in any specific group of peoples. Across the spectrum of socio-economic status, race, sex, age, religion, etc.

 

But in this specific case, I do agree it comes down to two main points. One stated above, and the overall joke that is mental health care in America and, really, the world. As stated, big pharma has a vise-grip on society, and would rather feed everyone pills then actually attempt to do anything. I have a number of friends who are pharma D's, and we constantly get into this argument-- with most agreeing that its true. So, while the details matter, I do believe that with complicating the questions being asked and creating discourse, a larger problem emerges from the core... and I think this country needs to examine what the best solution is vs. the easiest. Unfortunately, I don't know how realistic that is.

[RubberBullets 65]

I agree wholeheartedly (wow) with RubberBullets above

 

Except for this>>> I will cherish it forever.

 

 

 

I agree with BLF as well

 

/thread

[NJScott 15]

LOL

[Combat Auto 174]

^{Agree with the above, that you can't point to any one thing as cause of this...But without a moral center - we are all dommed...Dosn't mean you have to pray to statues...Does mean there is a right and wrong, and we need to teach our kids what exactly that means...But it is an overall sociatal change that is now leaning too far to secularism, non-responsibility, no moral judjement, lack of responsability (e.g., parents), excuses for behavior, that is helping paint a tapaestry (or appedemic as Grossman calls it) - worldwide (not just in USA) of attrocities by mostly young people...The fact that they usually (not always) use guns - puts the gun community in the mix (right or wrong)...}

 

^{So the Gun Community (should) put forth the effort to propose solutions and point to the "root cause" rather than be just on the defensive....Morality/Sprituality, Parental responsibility, Regulating video games (like we regulate pornography) for minors, giving carry perits to responsible citizens (to aid and protect until Cops arrive), mental health awarness, and yes - as a last resort - even implimenting smart technology in weopons to alert authorities in special circumstances...These are all areas that need to be explored.}

 

^{I don't buy the attitude that "life is full of danger and we can't do anything about it"...We need to make every effort to protect children (they can't do it on their own)...It will take a very long time for this to happen, but we need to start somewhere. Right now we are on the wrong track.}

[bbk 188]

See, I don't agree with that. I don't think its a matter of protecting the children through means they wouldn't understand and be out of their hands. This has been applied before and before throughout history, and, not with just the case of children but all people, just leads to more frustrations. People must be educated and have the ability to ask questions that deserve answers (or the best answer). Increased desensitization towards violence through products is an issue, yes. However, the solution should be in making this fact aware, and then underscoring, in the case of video games, the legitimate aspects that could help society. Essentially, turning lemons into lemonade.

 

Everything is dangerous in life, we're only creatures sitting on a rock-- we're not guaranteed safety because we have thumbs and practice bipedalism. However, these same dangers are a double-edged sword... and instead of regulating them, we need to embrace them. Through embracing them, we turn a weakness into a resource.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If we stop glorifying this maniac and putting EVERYTHING all over the news then maybe this won't happen as much. I refuse to watch any news and haven't watched it when I found out what happened.

 

Wanna die? Fine, kill yourself. But hey, wanna die and make yourself into a national celebrity and have the President cry on national TV hours after you've done your evil act? Then kill lots of innocent people. If the effing media stops posting pics of the kids and the parents crying and all this horror then maybe it won't fuel the next @$$hole.

 

The kid couldn't cut it in life and wasn't fit for society. His life was meaningless. Now, after this, his life is magnified into a superstar status.

[2 trip_nick 0]

How do you know his mother didn't raise him in a rigid straightjacket of morality? I say that because I know a woman who raises her daughter that way. Wave the flag. Pray to God. Any typical moral positive she does tenfold in the most repressive way. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the daughter's become a stripper ten years down the road. If she had a son, I'd be afraid what he'd wind up doing. Parenting isn't as simple as "doing the right thing". Kids are individuals in themselves. Who can predict how a kid with a broken mind will react to any kind of parenting?

[njpilot 671]

Typical anit-gun liberal on the radio this morning, Queens County DA Charles Hindes said "we need to capitalize on this now", talking about the "rapid firing assault rifle" this kid used.

 

Nothing like exploiting the death of 20 kids for your own anti gun beliefs.

[njpilot 671]

Another thing everyone here should consider doing is what Nutfancy said in the video posted here. Donate the the NRA-ILA fund. That money goes towards the lobbying of Congress.

[TheSmokingGun 0]

Every time there's a mass shooting, we talk about gun control and video games.

 

The real issue is not the USA's gun laws, but its complete lack of a functioning healthcare system, especially a mental healthcare one, as well as the social and societal stigma that we place on those who are mentally ill.

 

Until we have a country where someone who is mentally ill can seek affordable, accessible treatment as well as not be made out to be a lesser member of society, we will continue to hear about a person who finally snapped, as all their friends/family/teachers/co-workers ignored warning signs and allowed them to slip into madness, be it for financial or social reasons.

[BleedingOrange36 0]

I've been thinking about this soo much, I keep coming back to the one thing I don't understand. Why did he have access to these weapons? Why isn't there anything in place that would require gun owner to show proof of owning a safe? You can only purchase as many guns as your safe is designed to hold. Yes I understand that most people keep some type of weapon accessible most of the time. Maybe we should designed some type of method of securing these weapons within reach, but safely out of others hands.

[ruger9 0]

There is no one answer. So until we as a society can figure it out, we have to be prepared for any eventuality we possibly can be. While an ounce of prevention might have stopped this from happening, the fact is, there is ALWAYS a chance this might happen, and so a POUND OF CURE my be at the ready at all times - arm the schools. I'm not one for bigger govt and more tax dollars being spent, but once again- gun laws have little to no effect; when someone wants to get a gun and kill, they do. So we must be prepared for that. Arm and train the schools, whether it's dedicated guards or the staff themselves. That's the only thing that could have stopped this (assuming bad guys will always get guns and try this crap).

[ruger9 0]

I've been thinking about this soo much, I keep coming back to the one thing I don't understand. Why did he have access to these weapons? Why isn't there anything in place that would require gun owner to show proof of owning a safe? You can only purchase as many guns as your safe is designed to hold. Yes I understand that most people keep some type of weapon accessible most of the time. Maybe we should designed some type of method of securing these weapons within reach, but safely out of others hands.

 

I thought of that, but even that law would be ineffective- no way to police it. No way to know the safe is being used, no way to know the kid(s) weren't given the combination, etc etc etc. While a good idea in theory, wouldn't work in practice. HOWEVER- I do think it is the responsible thing to do- gun owners SHOULD have their weapons secured to protect from theft and misuse.

[Arbelest 29]

I've been thinking about this soo much, I keep coming back to the one thing I don't understand. Why did he have access to these weapons? Why isn't there anything in place that would require gun owner to show proof of owning a safe? You can only purchase as many guns as your safe is designed to hold. Yes I understand that most people keep some type of weapon accessible most of the time. Maybe we should designed some type of method of securing these weapons within reach, but safely out of others hands.

 

DC v. Heller - Washington D.C. Code generally barring the registration of handguns, prohibiting carrying a pistol without a license, and requiring all lawful firearms to be kept unloaded and either disassembled or trigger locked violate the Second Amendment rights. SCOTUS the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self- defense within the home.

 

NJ requires the weapons to be inaccessible but not disassembled which seems reasonable and logical

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

If his mother had had the firearms in a safe it might have delayed the killer for maybe a couple of hours (torturing his mother until she disclosed the combination or killing her outright and then carbide wheel cutting/oxy-acetylene torch cutting into the safe).

 

Safes are good for securing firearms against young children and those who don't want to spend much time in the house (burglars), but I have doubts that having the firearms in a safe would absolutely have prevented this tragedy.

[BCeagle 12]

It sounds like the school knew this guy was a killer and dangerous before he even started killing kids (again who knows if what the media says is right) One trained armed person, could have taken this bastard out before he killed the children. This shows the value of national carry. If the custodian who alerted people could have taken this guy out after only one or two deaths you wouldnt hear another word or it in the media.

[njpilot 671]

They just said on the news that he took his life after hearing that the police were on scene and closing in. Once again, an active shooter knows he's about to be confronted my armed individuals and kills himself rather than get into a fight.

 

More push to end "gun free zones" and encourage people to conceal carry for their own protection.