vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 17, 2012 I’m sorry to see this happen again. I think the best proposed solution I could be on-board with was a few pages back where one of the NJGF Mods posted an Israeli school class with an armed teacher. I don’t see anything wrong with that if it real protection that is it is what we are looking provide, anything other than that will just come up short. In the meantime the Dems are at it again. According to Feinstein she already has a bill in the queue. Feinstein--->: There Will Be A Bill legislation against 2a is scary... the fact that people can not understand that banning guns will have no positive impact on violent crime... well that is more scary... how can you be so dumb as to think that removing guns would create a situation of peace and remove all violence... I just dont get it.. its been done.. and it didnt fix anything.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millsan1 3 Posted December 17, 2012 I will save the details, but I just gave up on a debate where the following was stated: I am no gun expert, but I know which should and shouldn't be allowed. I don't believe in them, therefore, they are not needed by anyone. I don;t want guns around my kids, so an armed guard in school is not acceptable. Paraphrasing, but this was the gist. This is what we face. Basically "I am more important that 200+ Million law abiding Americans and 250 years of history" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9X19 125 Posted December 17, 2012 Speculation.....there are many factors in play here.... However the negativity and outright down trodden attitude that IMO is exacerbating The feeling of helplessness that some in this thread have and are trying to project onto others. In lieu of acting defeatd prior to a euphamistic battle even being fought, i think is defeatist and has no place in this situation. Be strong in your beliefs and convictions and press the fight for your rights as a law abiding citizen of a free nation with a represtative government Well said. Thanks Nick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
areacode201 4 Posted December 17, 2012 On 12/16/2012 at 11:37 PM, millsan1 said: I will save the details, but I just gave up on a debate where the following was stated: I am no gun expert, but I know which should and shouldn't be allowed. I don't believe in them, therefore, they are not needed by anyone. I don;t want guns around my kids, so an armed guard in school is not acceptable. Paraphrasing, but this was the gist. This is what we face. Basically "I am more important that 200+ Million law abiding Americans and 250 years of history" 777 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted December 17, 2012 legislation against 2a is scary... the fact that people can not understand that banning guns will have no positive impact on violent crime... well that is more scary... how can you be so dumb as to think that removing guns would create a situation of peace and remove all violence... I just dont get it.. its been done.. and it didnt fix anything.. Not going to get an argument from me.. I don’t see where punishing the law abiding citizen will do any good either. The Dems know that perception is everything and reality is nothing and they are going to play out their hand. Again I’m of the mindset of more guns in the hands of responsible people, if someone on that school premises was armed this could have had a completely different outcome. In the end no matter what side of the 2A issue you are on no one likes seeing this.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodentoe 14 Posted December 17, 2012 They can ban semi automatics tomorrow. They can run a confiscation of handguns. And, this will still happen. Then it will be shotguns and pump or bolt action. Then it will be knives and machetes and cans of gasoline. This will keep happening because we focus on the big event and not the circumstances that lead up to it. We will continue to ignore the causal relationship between a gutting of our mental health system and mass murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted December 17, 2012 The usual- contact our representatives (which will be wholly ineffectual, as usual), try to talk some sense into the people around us using facts and statistics (which might work, somewhat), and if the law (whatever it may be) passes- DO NOT COMPLY. That's when the SHTF scenario we are fearing comes to be. I had a guy on a forum say "ah- it won't matter what you gunners want, once they pass marshall law and confiscate your guns, your opinions will be irrelevant." THAT is what we are up against. People who WANT door to door gun confiscation, just like in Nazi Germany. Of course you can't mention that, because then you are a "kook". God forbid any of this stuff comes true- not sure I want to witness that world. What you propose is a worst case scenario. It is a matter of how far you are willing to go. Are you like the founding fathers? Willing to fight and die for your freedoms? Some people are, while others are content with just being alive. I think that's a question every gun owner needs to ask themselves. And whatever your decision is, keep it to yourself and act if/when the time comes. This battle hasn't even begun yet. For now we need to fight in the courts and through our elected officials as you stated. Let them fire the first shots. And hopefully we will be the ones to fire the last ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted December 17, 2012 I may catch some shit for this... but really.. this is simple..... It is totally reasonable to verify that the purchaser of a gun is not a criminal... or has some obvious mental health history... it is totally reasonable to assume that not every face to face sale is done correctly.. to a legal person... make ALL gun sales go through an FFL to verify it is not a disqualified person... repeal ALL other gun laws.. thats the only reasonable trade.... allowing me access to the guns I want.. but verifying I am legally allowed to own a gun.. is not a violation of my rights.. this change would have NO impact on this particular situation... but all in all it would address the common screaming in the streets that "just anyone can buy a gun" what does that do when this A$$hole in question steals the guns anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted December 17, 2012 TIN FOIL HAT ON! First my condolences to the families of the dead. I share in their grief. But did any one notice the first reports of the firearms used were GLOCK and Sig? Then all of the sudden it was a Bushmaster. Maybe this was all staged (meaning the firearms changed) to push an AWB. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruger9 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Didn't the medical examiner say all the shots were from a rifle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted December 17, 2012 Didn't the medical examiner say all the shots were from a rifle? And he couldn't be part of the conspiracy? How long did they delay the removal of the bodies? Do you buy their explanation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruger9 0 Posted December 17, 2012 And he couldn't be part of the conspiracy? How long did they delay the removal of the bodies? Do you buy their explanation? As suspicious of the govt as I am, and as much as I believe govt does want to control us cradle to grave, and as much as I know it's possible a conspiracy like this could take place... I'm really trying hard to believe that even our marxist president wouldn't exploit a situation such as this to that degree. But... nothing would surprise me. Just like the election- I won't go so far as to say it was "stolen", but... there were multiple precincts where NOT ONE vote was cast for any candidate except Obama? That's a statistical impossibility, and voter fraud. So, I'm not saying I think the election was stolen, I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was, AND... there's not a thing we can do about it. Apply that to your theory about the CT shooting... nothing we can do about it. Official word is it was a rifle that was used. Truth or not, that is what we are now fighting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted December 17, 2012 I suspect a lot of the early reporting from all those stellar news services got a few things wrong. They had Lanza's mother as a teacher at the school deceased, they released the brother's name as the shooter, the death toll was wrong, a Sig and Glock on his person at the scene, the .223 was initially reported in his car, last night I heard he had a shotgun in his car. Part of the problem is the media looking for that "exclusive," photographers wanting that photograph that will make them an icon, a newscaster or writer hunting for his Pulitzer. If I was one of the parents, I would prefer to grieve in solace rather than partake in the media circus that's taking place up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted December 17, 2012 No surprise, eh? This is the big one like many have been saying....The fact that it was 3-6 year olds makes a big difference (did with me)...NRA, needs to be proactive about proposing solutions, as I've said...Marshells as another fellow propoesed, video game sensorship, morality education (cause it ain't happening at home apparently), and responsibility, etc...NRA saying "it aint guns" will not be enouh this time...Next 6 months they (socialists) will play advertisements of running children, and tears in Obama's eyes, over and over again...They will distort reality, hide any truth, attack any person to get their way (this was apparent from the Presidential election)...They are the mordern day masters of mass-propaganda...If we don't get involved, we will be burned at the stake metephorically (in a crisis, they always look for a "witch"). As mentioned above about what the Socialists will do/lie, Howard Dean on CNBC just now flat out lied, saying that a semi automatic - if you pull trigger once - many many bullets come out...This is going to be a tough fight.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted December 17, 2012 The country is not going to stand for thier children being slaughtered in school (and they shouldn't!)...Unfortunatly, guns are the scapegoat...NRA will need to offer something up to turn the tied...Just the way it is - not saying it is right or wrong...I'd like to see something along the lines of smart technology being applied. Many on these boards do not recognize, this event is a sea change (I wish it were not, but likely it is)...Our only hope is that by offering a concession, NRA can turn attention to the real-root cause: Too Secular a Society, Ultra Violent Video games (this is a form of mind control on kids - that otherwise lack moral direction), Mental Health Management, and better School Security/Marshels...(Remember, personal attacks on people you do not agree with is not a plan ;-) - Romni said to Obama in the debates...So, no nasty adjitives if you don't agree...Sadly, I recieved some on this board Saturday - which of course is a sad reflection on the person sending them). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnp 45 Posted December 17, 2012 The country is not going to stand for thier children being slaughtered in school (and they shouldn't!)...Unfortunatly, guns are the scapegoat...NRA will need to offer something up to turn the tied...Just the way it is - not saying it is right or wrong...I'd like to see something along the lines of smart technology being applied. Many on these boards do not recognize, this event is a sea change (I wish it were not, but likely it is)...Our only hope is that by offering a concession, NRA can turn attention to the real-root cause: Too Secular a Society, Ultra Violent Video games (this is a form of mind control on kids - that otherwise lack moral direction), Mental Health Management, and better School Security/Marshels...(Remember, personal attacks on people you do not agree with is not a plan ;-) - Romni said to Obama in the debates...So, no nasty adjitives if you don't agree...Sadly, I recieved some on this board Saturday - which of course is a sad reflection on the person sending them). So if the NRA concedes to some of the antis demands, the NRA will be able to turn attention to the real root cause? Please explain how that would work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 17, 2012 what does that do when this A$$hole in question steals the guns anyway? It does nothing... But I think the point is one of being reasonable... If owning a gun requires a clean record... It is somewhat reasonable to require the sale to go through a licensed dealer to verify a non prohibited person... But the trade off being to end ALL the other absurd laws... The focus being at that point you stop having to hear people cry about "all these loopholes"... You can say we gun owners... The government... Are doing our part to make sure only nonprohibited people are buying guns... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnp 45 Posted December 17, 2012 Did this guy leave a note or video of his reasons for doing what he did? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 17, 2012 I would not accept any more gun regulations. Guns are not the problem people are the problem. If we accepted any additional controls then we are just getting closer to the government trying to take them away. Based on my list if we accept more control of firearms we should also call for more control of this. 4300 Us citizens are Killed each year by Illegal aliens. 1400 Children are killed each year driven in cars by impaired family members. 1800 Americans are killed each year in crimes that involve bladed weapons. 3,300 Children drown each year in swimming pools. 600 People die each year in bicycling accidents. 4000 People die each year in motorcycle accidents. 50000 People die each year from alcohol poisoning. 50 People are killed each year by Bee Stings. 195000 people are killed each year by errors made by doctors / hospitals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 17, 2012 Did this guy leave a note or video of his reasons for doing what he did? I heard they found a destroyed hard drive maybe there's some info on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted December 17, 2012 It does nothing... But I think the point is one of being reasonable... If owning a gun requires a clean record... It is somewhat reasonable to require the sale to go through a licensed dealer to verify a non prohibited person... But the trade off being to end ALL the other absurd laws... The focus being at that point you stop having to hear people cry about "all these loopholes"... You can say we gun owners... The government... Are doing our part to make sure only nonprohibited people are buying guns... Vlad - If all the other BS laws were eliminated, OGAM, FID, I would agree to all sales, dealer and private going through an FFL. As long as it was a background check only and not registration. Additionally the eligible person data base would have to be accurate and reflect those with mental issues, which is a gap at times, This combined with a greater reign on those with mental health issues would be a reasonable solution. May dangerous persons with mental health issues are on the streets and allowed to regulate their own meds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruger9 0 Posted December 17, 2012 to amplify remixer's post... Looks like we needs bans on tobacco, alcohol, and medical care to me: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob2222 317 Posted December 17, 2012 As mentioned above about what the Socialists will do/lie, Howard Dean on CNBC just now flat out lied, saying that a semi automatic - if you pull trigger once - many many bullets come out...This is going to be a tough fight.... Connecticut, like New Jersey and many/most of the large blue states, already HAS an assault weapons ban so the Bushmaster must have been a "compliant" AR version to be legally sold in the state. So what the 'rats might have in mind is scary -- are they going to try to ban all auto loaders? Revolvers? I don't think for a minute that Obama's tears are real. Not just because this happens in Chicago on a regular basis, but because he's been personally responsible for the deaths of schoolchildren, in Pakistan, by drone attacks and hasn't stopped partying for a minute. This is about controlling the masses. Mass murder seems VERY much out of character for an individual with Asperger's syndrome -- I'm now wondering if he recently had a medication change of some sort. I see Sandy Hook -- and the other recent mass murders -- as a mental health issue, not a firearms issue, and I'm probably in a small minority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 17, 2012 Vlad - If all the other BS laws were eliminated, OGAM, FID, I would agree to all sales, dealer and private going through an FFL. As long as it was a background check only and not registration. Additionally the eligible person data base would have to be accurate and reflect those with mental issues, which is a gap at times, This combined with a greater reign on those with mental health issues would be a reasonable solution. May dangerous persons with mental health issues are on the streets and allowed to regulate their own meds. I don't have a problem with ALL firearms transactions needing to be processed by an FFL. but my problem is that gun control laws being changed in little steps eventually will bring big changes. How about we tackle the largest killers of Americans first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 17, 2012 Connecticut, like New Jersey and many/most of the large blue states, already HAS an assault weapons ban so the Bushmaster must have been a "compliant" AR version to be legally sold in the state. So what the 'rats might have in mind is scary -- are they going to try to ban all auto loaders? Revolvers? I think this is just one more example of the Lefts "Thank god this happened" now we can go after guns. They never let a tragedy go to waste. I don't think for a minute that Obama's tears are real. Not just because this happens in Chicago on a regular basis, but because he's been personally responsible for the deaths of schoolchildren, in Pakistan, by drone attacks and hasn't stopped partying for a minute. His tears might be real. As much as i dislike him, this did have an effect on all americans especially those who have children This is about controlling the masses. Mass murder seems VERY much out of character for an individual with Asperger's syndrome -- I'm now wondering if he recently had a medication change of some sort. I see Sandy Hook -- and the other recent mass murders -- as a mental health issue, not a firearms issue, and I'm probably in a small minority. I think it was a mental issue not a gun issue. Will the left want to regulate those with metal illness next? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 17, 2012 to amplify remixer's post... Looks like we needs bans on tobacco, alcohol, and medical care to me: Dont ban Tobacco.... please.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruger9 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Dont ban Tobacco.... please.... But "it's for your own good", you see. We are trying to SAVE LIVES here... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob2222 317 Posted December 17, 2012 I don't have a problem with ALL firearms transactions needing to be processed by an FFL. but my problem is that gun control laws being changed in little steps eventually will bring big changes. How about we tackle the largest killers of Americans first. Interesting to watch Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) expound on the need for gun control. The man needed to undergo surgery to control his weight. He can't even control what he puts into his own mouth and he wants to control the rest of us? Between 100,000 and 400,000 Americans die from obesity every year. Nobody mentions "food control". Food subsidies and the availability of limitless quantities to everyone everywhere is a matter of public policy. Obesity, lack of exercise and smoking cause a huge number of deaths each year. The number of deaths from all firearms, never mind from "assault weapons", is tiny in comparison. His tears might be real. As much as i dislike him, this did have an effect on all americans especially those who have children As a dad, it had an effect on ME, but I've never been sociopathic enough to cage my opinions enough to be elected to anything. Or ever had the desire. Chicago is supposedly on track for a new record number of homicides -- the total was up to 480 at the end of November. Zero Hedge on "drone control" --> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-16/guest-post-gun-control-no-drone-control Why no tears for the Chicago and Pakistani children? I'd look at trying to solve the problem, not use it as the means to a political end. Why have a number of obviously mentally ill individuals been murdering innocent people of late? Why were they not receiving effective treatment or housed in mental institutions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted December 17, 2012 TIN FOIL HAT ON! First my condolences to the families of the dead. I share in their grief. But did any one notice the first reports of the firearms used were GLOCK and Sig? Then all of the sudden it was a Bushmaster. Maybe this was all staged (meaning the firearms changed) to push an AWB. Just a thought. OMG...someone owned three of the most popular firearms in the country. It is a conspiracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njpilot 671 Posted December 17, 2012 I think it was a mental issue not a gun issue. Will the left want to regulate those with metal illness next? Well that would include most of the FAR left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
