School shooting in CT

[Duppie 73]

I truly believe that the NRA will need to change tack on this one. It is a game changer. I was surprised to hear Schumer spout more than the usual false platitudes about the 2A. He came out and said that the gun control crowd needs to accept that they can't take away everyone's guns, and that we need compromise. I'm sure NRA won't use this opportunity to make any concessions, but they would be wise to. Specifically, there is no way all semi-automatic firearms will be banned. We all know that an "assault weapons ban" will be meaningless -- collapsible stock, flash hider, etc are irrelevant.

 

That leaves one topic for discussion -- magazine capacity. I know most people on this board don't see it this way, but if there is one feature that can at least arguably be said to be related to possibly mitigate if not prevent these tragedies, it is magazine capacity. No gun organization, to my knowledge, has ever questioned the antis on their universally proposed 10 round limit. It is time for the NRA to have that discussion. Why 10 rounds? The vast majority of modern semi-autos, widely owned for sporting and self-defense purposes, hold more than 10 rounds. If the NRA could "counter" with a proposed ban of anything above 20, or even 15, so as to have as little impact as possible on current gun owners, with a well reasoned position as to why that makes sense, it would go a long way to deflecting the avalanche of criticism being directed the NRA's way. Even A rated Senators are now supporting this type of measure. The NRA needs to be smart and get out in front of this issue, and offer some concession. And, as part of any legislation, nationwide CCW rights, INCLUDING in states like NY, NJ, CA and MD, need to be addressed as does improved mental health screening and background checks. If training requirements are on the table I am guessing many Americans would be ok with, if not welcome, giving more people the opportunity to defend themselves from horrors like this.

 

The NRA needs to be smart and think outside their usual box. I doubt they will.

I agree, but I fear another attack will also be focused on Ammo. either attempting to limit or tax it to the point that it becomes too expensive to own or even fire certain guns. We've seen attempts in this vein with proposed bans on hunting due to lead in lakes and national parks. They are looking at all sides and I believe we should also.

[PDM 91]

One "common sense" argument against ammo bans is: if people can own guns -- and even the antis "admit" that they don't want to ban guns -- isn't it better that law abiding people be able to practice with and be proficient in the use of those guns. What possible "common sense" purpose could punitive taxes or other limitations on ammo have? If you acknowledge that the 2A gives people the right to own guns, there can't be actual or de facto ammo bans. I don't think we should shy away from dialogue just because the antis will raise absurd arguments. They should be engaged and called out on those arguments.

[johnp 45]

I never said you couldn't talk about it...everyone has a right to make an ass our of themselves whenever they feel it is warranted....and it is amazing what comes out of people mouths..or should I say fingers to keyboards... :0

 

I am merely trying to impart that the putting forth the notion as stated is foolish and does make us all look a little wacky.

 

You dont have the decoder ring is see.....ok well do you think that out of let's say.......3k members/users of this forum, that maybe one...just *maybe* one is an anti looking for fresh info...yes I know I know....sounds wacky right..see even I can be a little goofey....but is it possible?

 

Sure....so given that, in my mind putting forth notions that are really out there....REALLY OUT THERE....can make us all look a little daft.

 

I notice you avatar is a picture of the Sons of Anarchy television show. A show based on the exploits of a very crazy and dangerous motorcycle gang. What if that one forum member, *maybe* just that one is an anti and will use your picture as proof that all gun owners are outlaw bikers who sell drugs and kills cops.

 

This also sounds wacky and a little goofey, but it is also possible...no?

[H.M. Murdock 0]

That leaves one topic for discussion -- magazine capacity. I know most people on this board don't see it this way, but if there is one feature that can at least arguably be said to be related to possibly mitigate if not prevent these tragedies, it is magazine capacity. No gun organization, to my knowledge, has ever questioned the antis on their universally proposed 10 round limit. It is time for the NRA to have that discussion. Why 10 rounds? The vast majority of modern semi-autos, widely owned for sporting and self-defense purposes, hold more than 10 rounds. If the NRA could "counter" with a proposed ban of anything above 20, or even 15, so as to have as little impact as possible on current gun owners, with a well reasoned position as to why that makes sense, it would go a long way to deflecting the avalanche of criticism being directed the NRA's way. Even A rated Senators are now supporting this type of measure. The NRA needs to be smart and get out in front of this issue, and offer some concession. And, as part of any legislation, nationwide CCW rights, INCLUDING in states like NY, NJ, CA and MD, need to be addressed as does improved mental health screening and background checks. If training requirements are on the table I am guessing many Americans would be ok with, if not welcome, giving more people the opportunity to defend themselves from horrors like this.

 

Re: semi-auto rifles, aren't the smaller capacity magazines more reliable? And can't magazine be switched out extremely quickly? Wouldn't this killer have been just as effective and efficient carrying many 10 round magazines on his molle vest?

[voyager9 3,439]

The NRA needs to be smart and get out in front of this issue, and offer some concession. And, as part of any legislation, nationwide CCW rights, INCLUDING in states like NY, NJ, CA and MD, need to be addressed as does improved mental health screening and background checks. If training requirements are on the table I am guessing many Americans would be ok with, if not welcome, giving more people the opportunity to defend themselves from horrors like this.

 

The NRA needs to be smart and think outside their usual box. I doubt they will.

 

To start with: How about forcing a definition of "Assault Weapon"?

[Fawkesguy 57]

Two NRA "A" rated Senators have already turned.......

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9751588/Connecticut-school-shooting-two-US-Senators-call-for-assault-weapons-ban.html

[Vlad G 345]

Quite whining and start writing letters. Write to the NRA and tell them that they will be no compromise. Write you representatives, write to the national parties, write to your favorite talking heads.

 

Signing petitions on the web is all well and good, but write to everyone directly as well. If you don't then you allow the tone of the conversation to be set by our opponents. Be polite but firm and tell them that more infringements on your rights are not acceptable.

[Old School 611]

I never said you couldn't talk about it...everyone has a right to make an ass our of themselves whenever they feel it is warranted....and it is amazing what comes out of people mouths..or should I say fingers to keyboards... :0

 

I am merely trying to impart that the putting forth the notion as stated is foolish and does make us all look a little wacky.

 

You dont have the decoder ring is see.....ok well do you think that out of let's say.......3k members/users of this forum, that maybe one...just *maybe* one is an anti looking for fresh info...yes I know I know....sounds wacky right..see even I can be a little goofey....but is it possible?

 

Sure....so given that, in my mind putting forth notions that are really out there....REALLY OUT THERE....can make us all look a little daft.

 

PM Sent to Nickjc

[mipafox 438]

Fox news has an article saying texas teachers can ccw in school, at least some people get it

 

http://www.foxnews.c...,404721,00.html

 

\

I find that surprising since that doesn't seem to jive with their law.

 

 

Texas is just a great American State. They don't fool around. I want to live in Texas.

 

 

 

Texas pretty much has the shittiest gun laws once you get out of NJ, NY, IL, CA, MD, HA, MA, and CT.

 

- Open Carry is a crime- You need training and fingerprints to get a CCW.- Which CCW do you want? You have to qualify for either a revolver or a semi-auto. There is a distinction. It costs $140. MA is cheaper.

 

They also have the shittiest list of places you can't carry a firearm of any state. Basically, once you leave a car, you probably should leave your carry gun behind.A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption On premises of a correctional facility On the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, On the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress. racetrack; secured area of an airport In any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court. *on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. *On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code *On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code *Amusement parks. Amusement Parks means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. Public or private premises conspicuously posted with a Sign that meets these Criteria.

 

http://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

 

Plusses are no FFL for transfers (like majority of states) and full NFA allowed (like most states).

[EchoMirage 137]

the only good think about texas and guns is their castle doctrine.

[mipafox 438]

They have good Stand Your Ground laws.

 

I'm not saying Texas is all bad. I'm saying, to the half of the membership here that aren't cops, don't pick Texas because you think they have the best gun laws. They are below average.

[woodentoe 14]

Only Steers and..

 

never mind. there's nothing wrong with that.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

To start with: How about forcing a definition of "Assault Weapon"?

 

This is a good point. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken with, some of whom are somewhat sympathetic to 2A rights, who have said, "No one needs to own an assault weapon." The media throw that term around so loosely, that I would bet most people don't even know what it means.

 

Without having read all of the past 19 pages on this thread, I have no idea if another point has been covered. Some have asked whether or not there are enough sympathetic legislators to enact another AWB or whatever else; but if you listened to Obama last night, he said something to the effect that he will use the powers of his office to get past politics to do something about this situation. Is it just me, or does that sound like an executive order coming? Not only that, but I predict he does something within the next few days, while public sentiment in support of it is still running high.

[Soju 153]

To start with: How about forcing a definition of "Assault Weapon"?

 

Hopefully someone educated on firearms is the one who determines the definition, like Kelven Crenshaw.

[raz-0 1,259]

Re: semi-auto rifles, aren't the smaller capacity magazines more reliable? And can't magazine be switched out extremely quickly? Wouldn't this killer have been just as effective and efficient carrying many 10 round magazines on his molle vest?

For a hundred rounds fired, with relatively slow mag changes it would have slowed him down maybe a minute, minute and a half tops. Capacity limits are feel good bs. Doesn't mean they won't go for them. The reality is if you give someone 5-10 minutes to do what they want, they can off a lot of people. Making ammo exceptionally expensive would be a defacto ban and challengeable in court.As far as Obama doing something. Executive branch COULD dump money into putting armed guards in every school.

[Handyman 5,682]

Hopefully someone educated on firearms is the one who determines the definition, like Kelven Crenshaw.

 

I don't know we might fare much better with a typical libtard:

 

Rational Citizen: "So you want to ban assault rifles, right?"

 

Libtard: "Absolutely!"

 

Rational Citizen: "So by 'assault rifle,' you mean like the military uses, right? A Machine gun, an automatic rifle?"

 

Libtard: "Absolutely!"

 

Rational Citizen: "Ok, so we will approve a law defining 'assault rifle' to mean all fully automatic rifles and then ban them. I completely agree!"

 

Libtard collapses from ecstasy, not realizing he excluded all readily available civillian arms and banned something already banned.

[Soju 153]

I was joking. If you were wondering, the intelligent ATF agent in this video you may have seen before is Kelvin Crenshaw.

 

 

[Handyman 5,682]

I feel much better now. If that is the kind of tard that is coming after my guns, I'm just painting all the tips orange.

[Rifleman1 32]

Regardless of the coverage he will get, or how much we will know about him, remember something else .. someone knew him. Lots of people knew him, and this doesn't happen like a switch. How many people didn't get involved, how many people decided he might be screwed up but he was family or a friend, how many people had a bad vibe about him?

 

You can blame guns, society, movies, drugs, culture and the color of the sky. How many of us are going to blame ourselves for ignoring people just like him? This isn't about excusing his actions because daddy didn't hug him, this is about what everyone can do to avoid this happening again. You don't have to care about people, not be a dick to them, and getting them care when they need it just for them, you are also doing it for yourself and those who might end up hurt.

 

Can anyone here stand up, put their hand on their heart and say they've never been a bit mean to the odd guy, or ignored someone in their family who maybe should have had professional help, that they have never simply ignored a problem because it was easier then dealing with it? I sure as hell can't.

 

+1

[bulpup 98]

 

I don't know we might fare much better with a typical libtard:

 

Rational Citizen: "So you want to ban assault rifles, right?"

 

Libtard: "Absolutely!"

 

Rational Citizen: "So by 'assault rifle,' you mean like the military uses, right? A Machine gun, an automatic rifle?"

 

Libtard: "Absolutely!"

 

Rational Citizen: "Ok, so we will approve a law defining 'assault rifle' to mean all fully automatic rifles and then ban them. I completely agree!"

 

Libtard collapses from ecstasy, not realizing he excluded all readily available civillian arms and banned something already banned.

 

 

I had i guy say to me today "pardon the semantics,but aren't all weapons assault weapons?"

What a great opportunity to point out that the assault weapon ban is talking about assault rifles. And how can you trust lawmakers that can't ask themselves exactly what he asked?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Silent Service 7]

If you want some real tin foil hat action read this article. If they have their facts correct this is one of the oddest coincidence's ever.

 

http://www.examiner....were-to-testify

 

If the mall guy is connected I'm moving to Panama !

 

Also if this is true, they're gonna get you for posting it.

 

Good luck bud.

[NJDrew1 0]

No matter what happens, I felt it was necessary to go to nra-ila and give them a $50 donation. It's going to be a tough road ahead, and they're going to be fighting their asses off for the entire country's gun rights, not just new jersey's.

[TheSmokingGun 0]

Texas pretty much has the shittiest gun laws once you get out of NJ, NY, IL, CA, MD, HA, MA, and CT.

 

- Open Carry is a crime- You need training and fingerprints to get a CCW.- Which CCW do you want? You have to qualify for either a revolver or a semi-auto. There is a distinction. It costs $140. MA is cheaper.

 

They also have the shittiest list of places you can't carry a firearm of any state. Basically, once you leave a car, you probably should leave your carry gun behind.A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption On premises of a correctional facility On the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, On the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress. racetrack; secured area of an airport In any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court. *on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. *On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code *On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code *Amusement parks. Amusement Parks means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. Public or private premises conspicuously posted with a Sign that meets these Criteria.

 

http://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

 

Plusses are no FFL for transfers (like majority of states) and full NFA allowed (like most states).

 

Listen, mister, don't let facts get in the way of things. The poster likely read some AOL Chain E-mails and they said Texas was a great place full of common sense, rootin-tootin cowboys.

 

[johnp 45]

.

[TheSmokingGun 0]

Posting 4chan pasta on here, what are you 12?

 

Come on, you know it's funny. Tell me those chain e-mails don't read like that. LOL

[johnp 45]

.

[so_dank 0]

How bout a ban on exploiting traumatized children on national television. As for the ban if someone is suffering from mental illness do you really think a lack of firearms will stop them from doing harm. A Google search shows how to make the B word, a big old car in a busy street, or some old fashion gasoline can have the same devastating effects. As far as criminal violence as opposed to crazy person violence goes there going to get there hands on whatever items they want and not be concerned with a band because there CRIMINALS. You think a drug ban stopped drugs or prohibition stopped alcohol. I know I'm speaking to a group that understands this and I'm beating a dead horse I just can't see why people do not understand this. As far as the statement I heard yesterday "were the only country with this kind of violence" are you serious??

[H.M. Murdock 0]

How bout a ban on exploiting traumatized children on national television. As for the ban if someone is suffering from mental illness do you really think a lack of firearms will stop them from doing harm. A Google search shows how to make the B word, a big old car in a busy street, or some old fashion gasoline can have the same devastating effects. As far as criminal violence as opposed to crazy person violence goes there going to get there hands on whatever items they want and not be concerned with a band because there CRIMINALS. You think a drug ban stopped drugs or prohibition stopped alcohol. I know I'm speaking to a group that understands this and I'm beating a dead horse I just can't see why people do not understand this. As far as the statement I heard yesterday "were the only country with this kind of violence" are you serious??

 

Maybe that's a good way to argue with the mouth breathers and the hippy dippies

 

There is a violent energy that is exuded in our society. If you get rid of all the guns this violent energy will just find another way to escape. And in the extreme end of the spectrum -- mass murders -- the violent acts will become much much more unpreventable (i.e. B word). The only way to decrease the violent energy is to change society. We will never be able to stop these violent acts completely, shit does happen. But we do have control over some of the underlying issues that cause homicidal outbursts of violence.

 

The big issue is mental healthcare. Apparently we need to dump a lot of money into budget to increase the bed count substantially. The mental healthcare system needs to be disentangled from the prison system by the legislature(?). And we need to lock up seasoned cold blooded killers instead of having them serve fractions of their sentence or being plead out back to the street immediately, i.e. enforcing the existing laws.

 

A second issue is addressing modern parenting. Specifically.. the excessive coddling, constantly satisfying the kid's desire for instant gratification and otherwise sowing the seeds of entitlement. A kid needs to have a moral compass and know a hard day's work. And so do his friends, his parents and his grandparents, his teachers, etc. These things can't be changed in a single generation obviously and telling someone how to parent is like beating a dead horse. The dumbest ones will do the opposite just to spite you. I don't expect the parenting aspect to ever get better considering the reason behind it -- seems to be a one way street.

 

Anyway, I'm not very knowledgeable on what improvements will benefit the mental healthcare system but I do know that pretty much any half-assed idea will be more effective than guns magically ceasing to exist.

 

If we get rid of all guns, which is impossible anyway, we're going to back here (well probably a different forum) talking about outlawing glass, gasoline and laundry detergent in a few years. And we'll have already paid the ultimate price -- the loss of one of our most fundamental Constitutional rights, the right that stands sentry to all other rights and the only Constitutional right that can ultimately protect us from tyranny (the 20th century is a good read).

[Ray Ray 3,566]

anyone notice that kevin tried to install the magazine backwards when he first picked it up? Yeah, they know what their doin

[Gunrunner26 0]

Anyone want to make a small wager??? BY this time next year there will be another "Assault" weapons ban in place. There will be a ban on Mag capacity probably not to exceed between 10- 15 rounds (like NJ has now). They will grandfather in all pre existing owners prior to the ban taking effect. (too expensive to collect 4 +-million gnus). They will institute a yearly registration fee(tax) for owning an AR or any other gun for that matter, just like we pay for car registration renewal.

 

Now here is what I think will happen down the road after a year: Any person who wants to buy a gun of any type will need a mental health physical( checkup) don't laugh pilots (privet and commercial) have to have a physical (not mental) to maintain their license. And (GFH will love this) everyone will have to take a training class. Folks it is coming. But if the world ends Friday, we won't have to worry. Think I am wrong, save this and we will see in a year.