Swat Called On Me Today....

[RedBowTies88 41]

HAHAHA! I guess the cops didn't take an oath to "never lie". I think they planned it, especially with the damn prosecutor there.

On the FFL...I like those folks. I've had a number of guns transferred by them and I think it's just because they really don't sell that many guns that they get so much for transfers- gotta make money somehow. I buy what I can there, but haven't bought a gun there yet (although there were a couple of nice used ones I should have jumped on).

Builders in that area? I probably know you or your family. Worked for one in that area and then had a business in the county for 18 years.

 

We used to do modulars, now we just stick to the mobile home business. My grandfather also used to be the sheriff for some time and was involved in politics. You might know my old man... I mean everyone pretty muchs either knows everyone else or at least someone in their family down here haha

[1563621 388]

Police have every right to go on private property in the situation you describe to investigate a complaint. Google curtilage and open fields for SCOTUS decisions. Yes the cop was right in saying not to give him any private property stuff.

 

You should be glad local LE can get a SWAT response together so quickly. If you were a cop answering a call about FA weapons fire would you be comfortable with just your handgun? I think some agencies over use SWAT to justify their existence I don't think this is one of those situations.

 

Holding a gun on someone who still may be armed seems reasonable. As a LEO and in the military I have had friendllies hold guns on me until they ascertained who I was. Searching you to determine if you were still armed seems reasonable also. Examining the guns to see if they were FA is something they were entitled to do also. All the guns you listed could be converted to FA. I would have done function checks to determine this. If you are entitled to handling the gun you are entitled to see the serial number.

 

How do you know the one guy was the prosecutor? It said so on his raid jacket? I think you got a detective from the county prosecutor's office who happened to be in the area and backed these guys up.

 

You said their demeanor did a 180 when they determined who you were.

 

There isn't anything related showing the police did anything wrong.

 

If you want to contact the chief and relate what happened by all means do so. I would also ask him if in order to prevent it happening again suggest that perhaps you call the desk when you decide to shoot there. Not asking permission just letting them know to avoid confrontations. This is what we do at a friends place in NH.

 

Gotta agree with Griz on this one. I used to shoot on my property in the woods all the time. Neighbors new one or two shots- NOT ME! Few hundred-ME. Used to apply for PP 12 at a time. 2 week turnaround and a call by the sergeant when ready! Times have changed. So that means cal the POPO before putting 1K rds. down range.

[hardlife_nef 1]

Times have changed... Well then that just makes it all right then huh. Time changes constantly thats its nature, we however need to remain constant in asserting our rights. Not even going to mention the drawing on the property owner and waiting to do so till 30 yards away. I will however comment on what sounds like an illegal search. From what I read credentials were established and no law seemed to have been broken. No probable cause, so unless you consented to a search when asked or informed that we are going to search your vehicle for your safety and ours... Ok (yeah that ok? Is asking for permission or remained silent thereby agreeing by not dissenting, flat out illegal search. On private property even had you had a holstered weapon which op stated he did not you have every right to carry it. Let me think about this, 2 guys in street clothes and several moderately armed officers in protective gear, who should be in fear? Im a nonactive US Marine (there are no former Marines) and have had weapons pointed at by friendlies and non friendlies. Never a good thing. In a hostile environment understandable. In the scene described not so much. Op & guest obviously had no rifles in hand and could easily be determined from 30yards so cops with vests as a minumium and I imagine that swat unit was more geared up than that, what was the fear? That the guy was gonna pull a 5.7 (can penetrate vest but illegal afaik in NJ) and take out whole team before they could respond? Now weapons at the ready I can let slide, still I'd be pissed but ok. Why is it ok in NJ but not the mojority of the country. Oh yeah forgot times have changed.

[djg0770 481]

5.7 not illegal on its own - mags may be illegal though that can be converted.

[BlackOps Badger 52]

Just to clear things up a little about our county swat team. The team is made up of officers from multiple municipalities. They keep all of their gear in their squad car if something happens. They may have just been middle township police that happened to be swat. So it is likely that they just happened to be in the area.

[Spartiati 63]

Police have every right to go on private property in the situation you describe to investigate a complaint. Google curtilage and open fields for SCOTUS decisions. Yes the cop was right in saying not to give him any private property stuff.

 

You should be glad local LE can get a SWAT response together so quickly. If you were a cop answering a call about FA weapons fire would you be comfortable with just your handgun? I think some agencies over use SWAT to justify their existence I don't think this is one of those situations.

 

Holding a gun on someone who still may be armed seems reasonable. As a LEO and in the military I have had friendllies hold guns on me until they ascertained who I was. Searching you to determine if you were still armed seems reasonable also. Examining the guns to see if they were FA is something they were entitled to do also. All the guns you listed could be converted to FA. I would have done function checks to determine this. If you are entitled to handling the gun you are entitled to see the serial number.

 

How do you know the one guy was the prosecutor? It said so on his raid jacket? I think you got a detective from the county prosecutor's office who happened to be in the area and backed these guys up.

 

You said their demeanor did a 180 when they determined who you were.

 

There isn't anything related showing the police did anything wrong.

 

If you want to contact the chief and relate what happened by all means do so. I would also ask him if in order to prevent it happening again suggest that perhaps you call the desk when you decide to shoot there. Not asking permission just letting them know to avoid confrontations. This is what we do at a friends place in NH.

 

Gotta agree with Griz on this one. I used to shoot on my property in the woods all the time. Neighbors new one or two shots- NOT ME! Few hundred-ME. Used to apply for PP 12 at a time. 2 week turnaround and a call by the sergeant when ready! Times have changed. So that means cal the POPO before putting 1K rds. down range.

 

I am no legal expert by any means so what you have written may in fact be true, but I feel it is a bit excessive drawing a gun on someone doing nothing illegal because some neighbor wants to stir up trouble. I don't understand how Police officers can use deadly force like this when nothing at al was going on. Just my 2 cents.

[djg0770 481]

I don't understand how Police officers can use deadly force like this when nothing at al was going on. Just my 2 cents.

 

It wasn't deadly force as he's here to tell the tale. It may have been the THREAT of deadly force, but...

 

All in all based on the story as told (remember, 3 sides to every story, his side, her side, and the truth) it seems a bit excessive, especially some of the language used initially, but IANALEO

[halbautomatisch 60]

5.7 not illegal on its own - mags may be illegal though that can be converted.

They sell10 rounders as well.

[hardlife_nef 1]

I stand happily correct and am placing the 5.7 at the top of my must buy handgun list. I have no issues with being wrong and appreciate corrections when I am.

[hardlife_nef 1]

After reading the scotus ruling on the open fields I am not convinced this passes muster. Ianal, but they were investigating a complaint and being posted private property, having made visual contact and gestured for persons on said property to approach, which they complied with and having no obvious weapons on their persons as they approached... I dont know, but I can see it go either way depending on the person arguing the case. But thats just my opinion based on limited research having only read 15 or so cases and the scotus decision. Regardless of the nonexpectation of privacy in open field, the vehicle search would still appear to be a clear violation unless consented. Also while the observation of the serial numbers as part of handling the weapons I can go with, I'm not feeling them writing them down. I am not a leo hater, but why is it you rarely if ever see a leo disagree with another leo?

[Jon 264]

but why is it you rarely if ever see a leo disagree with another leo?

 

Maybe it's because I work with cops every day, but this couldn't be further from the truth.

[NJKen 23]

Good Grief! What a total CF. Someone called the cops on me and my brotherinlaw for shooting on the farm. It was legal. 2 cruisers and 3 state LOEs showed up. We unloaded and set the guns down on the tailgate of the truck. They started aproaching us and we started approaching them at the same time. No guns drawn, no swat teams. They stated that they where there to investigate a complaint of automatic weapon fire. We told them we where shooting 2 AR15s at the same time and that was it. They didnt even look at our guns any more than just a quick glance. No serial numbers recorded or persons searched. They got in theor cars and left after that.

You guys must look more threatening than me and my brotherinlaw or something!

Ken

[Maksim 1,504]

Good Grief! What a total CF. Someone called the cops on me and my brotherinlaw for shooting on the farm. It was legal. 2 cruisers and 3 state LOEs showed up. We unloaded and set the guns down on the tailgate of the truck. They started aproaching us and we started approaching them at the same time. No guns drawn, no swat teams. They stated that they where there to investigate a complaint of automatic weapon fire. We told them we where shooting 2 AR15s at the same time and that was it. They didnt even look at our guns any more than just a quick glance. No serial numbers recorded or persons searched. They got in theor cars and left after that.

You guys must look more threatening than me and my brotherinlaw or something!

Ken

 

And this is how it should be.

Look, there is a difference between carrying guns in public next to a bank or a school, versus in the middle of bumblefuck woods. The response was out of line in my opinion and I would be pissed. This is not how it should go down and I would absolutely make a big deal about it.

 

Would it be a good idea to call ahead of time? Sure.... but the Swat guys did not need to go in trigger finger on the trigger looking for an excuse to put one in your ass. I love my LEO guys, but most cops are not exactly bullseye shooters or anyone I would trust to shoot a 2 inch group at 25 yards. There was more potential downside to the response than upside, especially where this was located. 2 guys playing with guns on a 40 acre piece of property is not exactly as critical as 2 masked guys with guns walking into a bank.

 

Keep us updated, and I would absolutely speak with an Attorney. Don't let your rights be trampled one step at a time.

[RUTGERS95 890]

respectfully, you are a fool if you do not file a complaint and contact your attorney.

 

That said, I'm very jealous you have a private range like that

[mipafox 438]

I had a funny feeling about shooting today... with everything that was going on on. My friend literally JUST picked up an m&p15 and wanted to try it out...so we loaded up and off to my range.

 

My range is on private property and is 40+ acres. I've been shooting there for years without incident...my juristiction has no laws against discharge. I've had the police to my range ONCE in all the years becuase they recieved a call. A single officer in a crown vic arrived checked my credientials and left me to my target practice.

 

Today..didn't go the same.

 

I'm parked at my range behind the bed of my truck where myself and a friend are loading magazines and i spot two officers approacing approx 75 yards away. I tell my friend and we put down everything we have and step away from the tailgate. The officers motion us to come towards them so we begin walking that way slowly.. I even yelled "hello" to them. They were just walking up in a casual manner.

 

 

we get to about 30 yards from them (again us walking casually toward them, and them walking casually toward us) and then they draw down on us and yell  "hands up" very shorty after 3 more officers round the corner (about 50 yards from us) and draw down as well as 2 officers in full swat gear sporting m4 carbines. They get to about 10 yards ands tell us to turn around. I informed them this was private property and was told "don't give me any private property" what he meant exactly is still unsure. with hands up and facing away from them they (with guns still on us) ran our pockets and threw my keys, phone, empty pocket holster, as well as a few other belongs on the ground.

 

We stood that way for about 2 minutes until the prosecuter arrived. At wich point we were instructed to pick up our belongings and follow them over to the tailgate where the guns were.

 

on the tailgate sat (all unloaded luckily)

marlin 795

mosin nagant

ruger 22/45

polish p64

saiga (converted)

and my friends brand spanking new mp15

 

They asked us for id's and we supplied. at this point they realized the name on m LIC matched that's on the posted signs and their attitudes changed drastically.... from then on they were very nice. They asked us what we were doing and I replied target practice. They said they recieved a call of automatic fire and I assured them all our guns were legal and i told them they could fire them. They removed all the mags (man did they have a hard tim figuring out how to) wrote down all the serial numbers aqnd basically told us to have a nice day and left. The whole ordeal took maybe 30 minutes. They didn't fire any of our guns or check magazine capicity. (all were leagl of course)

 

They basically blamed it all on the events in CT... guess thats an excuse to violate your rights. All in all the only thing im upset about was them taking down my serial numbers.... thats really none of their busines. but since they were being nice i didn't give them a hard time...but i also didn't give them permission.

 

 

having many loaded guns pointed at you at once is not a fun thing... i really must say.

 

 

Welcome to America

[gunguy1960 2]

Anyone in criminal justice who doesnt appreciate how much stories like this hurt future dealings with them by everyone is an idiot.

[gunguy1960 2]

Randy Weaver, google that law enforcement gem, but then some will never hold law enforcement accountable, like when they made a bomb and dropped it on the MOVE house in philly, another google gem. Accountability, if you live your life without any you retire with your hand holding your sidearm in your mouth because you realize without the badge your power is gone and the only memories are of treating people like crap.

[2 trip_nick 0]

IMO, searching the truck is legit because that's a likely place to hide an AW. Searching the glove compartment or other small compartments where such a gun wouldn't fit would not be legit.

[Underdog 1,593]

I am beginning to believe that the majority of Americans will not and cannot be responsible for their actions whether they are LEO friendlies, impolite and reactionary neighbors, common thugs, repeat offenders, attorney's-at-large, politicians, private citizens... that coupled with increased power in the hands of some is a dangerous prospect... It's time to fully accept and relish in nanny-statehood and obedience, and the conditioning that goes along with it.

[Johnny 0]

Sounds like you need a Jurassic Park style electric fence around your property.

[Underdog 1,593]

In this state you would be in trouble for being outside with the gun. You would be better served going inside, locking the doors and calling the police. Is it stupid yes but that's the way this state is. In the real world if you see no credentials then you are in the right

 

Would only be in trouble if the LEO had an attitude because a gun was pointed at him while the citizen that pays him was sorting things out upon seeing an armed, identified intruder moving toward him. This would be open to the police discretion and would probably go bad for the homeowner, although it shouldn't have to end that way. What would the LEO do if someone was walking up his driveway with a gun? Wait inside and lock the door and wait for backup?

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

Would only be in trouble if the LEO had an attitude because a gun was pointed at him while the citizen that pays him was sorting things out upon seeing an armed, identified intruder moving toward him. This would be open to the police discretion and would probably go bad for the homeowner, although it shouldn't have to end that way. What would the LEO do if someone was walking up his driveway with a gun? Wait inside and lock the door and wait for backup?

 

The way the law views it is that a homeowner doesn't have a duty to act ...the officer does even at home. Is the law unfair..yes but until it changes that the way I goes.

 

 

Stop with the whiny citizen who pays their salary bull...that same old story gets old. Try something new

[Soju 153]

I sure wish I had a job where following protocol supersedes individual rights, and the law itself. Must be nice to have a prosecutor WITH you to sanction said unlawful activity, 'in the name of safety' or because 'they were following protocol'.

 

But that is just how it is. No recourse. No meaningful rights. Just play the game and hope you don't get screwed over. What is actually right or wrong, lawful or unlawful, means nothing. Anything can happen in the game when you get caught up in the system.

 

A good article to put things in perspective.

 

http://www.itsuptoyo...-out-of-crimes/

 

 

 

The way the law views it is that a homeowner doesn't have a duty to act ...the officer does even at home. Is the law unfair..yes but until it changes that the way I goes.

 

 

Stop with the whiny citizen who pays their salary bull...that same old story gets old. Try something new

 

Stop with the whole "we have a duty to act and you don't line....same old story gets old. Try something new.

 

Supreme Court rules police have NO duty to protect.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

[mipafox 438]

And this is how it should be.

Look, there is a difference between carrying guns in public next to a bank or a school, versus in the middle of bumblefuck woods.  

 

What difference would that be? I open carry inside four bank branches of two different banks at least once a week although sometimes it's covered by a jacket during the winter.

[KpdPipes 388]

I sure wish I had a job where following protocol supersedes individual rights, and the law itself. Must be nice to have a prosecutor WITH you to sanction said unlawful activity, 'in the name of safety' or because 'they were following protocol'.

 

But that is just how it is. No recourse. No meaningful rights. Just play the game and hope you don't get screwed over. What is actually right or wrong, lawful or unlawful, means nothing. Anything can happen in the game when you get caught up in the system.

 

A good article to put things in perspective.

 

http://www.itsuptoyo...-out-of-crimes/

 

 

 

 

 

Stop with the whole "we have a duty to act and you don't line....same old story gets old. Try something new.

 

Supreme Court rules police have NO duty to protect.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ict_of_Columbia

http://www.nytimes.c...cotus.html?_r=0

 

You should follow your own advice once in a while..you're a one trick pony

[BlueLineFish 615]

Same old trolls same old story.

[jrfly3006 42]

There should be a "Hate cops, their salaries, their pensions and their rules" forum on here..gotta couple moderators above

[BlueLineFish 615]

There should be a "Hate cops, their salaries, their pensions and their rules" forum on here..gotta couple moderators above

 

Call it the troll forum. Meetings under the bridge

[gunguy1960 2]

Citizens dont pay the public workers salary? Dont like the reminder? Accountability can be such a drag, just like that pesky constitution, reminders about that seem to really annoy law enforcement as well. Remember the old days when you were suppose to protect and SERVE? Good day, public SERVANT.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Citizens dont pay the public workers salary? Dont like the reminder? Accountability can be such a drag, just like that pesky constitution, reminders about that seem to really annoy law enforcement as well. Remember the old days when you were suppose to protect and SERVE? Good day, public SERVANT.

 

Wow..good one...come up with that all yourself. Yup you pay my salary so I'm going to let you do whatever you want. Sorry. Dont like it don't pay taxes. I follow the laws that I am sworn to uphold. Don't like that. Get them changed. Until then...suck it up princess