FFL Transfer Problem

[JustJoe 0]

No, if I understand the law correctly, guns are not common property. But INAL either.

[Underdog 1,593]

I believe there is "title" to the gun and property ownership. The gun belongs to who is titled to it and who "possesses" it, but there is also a value to it which the husband and wife share which would come into play with an estate or say a divorce, however, the titled person isresponsible. And inparticular with a handgun it cannot be taken to a range without the titled person being present.

[PK90 3,573]

All I can say is WOW!!! Everybody knows everything.

 

IMHO, this is what will happen. The NJSP will divert the solution to what the ATF will say. The ATF will divert the decision to the NJ Dealer. It has been stated by ATF that if the retailer is not comfortable transferring a firearm, they are advised not to do it.

 

Good luck OP.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

So stating that I'm buying a gun that my sons can shoot at the range with me is a "straw purchase"? That's F**** nuts!

Yeah, it's frustrating.

 

I don't know how many times I've said "I got my son a M&P 9 Pro" to "I got a M&P 9 Pro for my son to use."

[djg0770 481]

All I can say is WOW!!! Everybody knows everything.

 

You're surprised?

[DSD1026 48]

All I can say is WOW!!! Everybody knows everything.

 

IMHO, this is what will happen. The NJSP will divert the solution to what the ATF will say. The ATF will divert the decision to the NJ Dealer. It has been stated by ATF that if the retailer is not comfortable transferring a firearm, they are advised not to do it.

 

Good luck OP.

Honestly, I sort of expect this to happen. If that is what happens, then hopefully SS will just send the gun back to the seller and we can be done with it for now. Its been a frustrating experience especially because we followed the rules (at least what we THOUGHT were the rules), but I suppose this might just end up being one of those "live and learn" situations.

 

If it does go back to the seller, we'll just wait until my FID comes in before we bother with anything again.. Disappointing result it would be, but not the end of the world. We have had time to calm down about the situation (obviously everyone was pretty raw about this yesterday as it was a fresh situation), and whatever happens, we'll know better the next time.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

This whole Straw Purchase BS brings up an issue with me.

 

Several years ago I bought & donated a 20 gauge Youth Model Mossberg 500 Pump Shotty to my local Boy Scout Council, since they needed a new one. I saw it on the shelf at a local-to-me Sporting Goods Store, so I put a deposit on it to hold it. I told the guys at the Store what I was doing and they THANKED ME FOR HELPING THE SCOUTS and gave me a nice price! The guy at the Store who executed the transfer was a retired Cop & grandfather of a Scout. Came back in a week or two, finished paying for it, and took it DIRECTLY to the BSA Council Office, whereby I immediately filled-out a pair of COE's and left it with the new "Owner" (guy who works full time for Council) so he could drive it up to the Summer Camp in Sussex County.

 

So am I now guilty of some sort of BS crime for being a nice guy? Man have TIMES CHANGED!

 

Dave

[Underdog 1,593]

Honestly, I sort of expect this to happen. If that is what happens, then hopefully SS will just send the gun back to the seller and we can be done with it for now. Its been a frustrating experience especially because we followed the rules (at least what we THOUGHT were the rules), but I suppose this might just end up being one of those "live and learn" situations.

 

If it does go back to the seller, we'll just wait until my FID comes in before we bother with anything again.. Disappointing result it would be, but not the end of the world. We have had time to calm down about the situation (obviously everyone was pretty raw about this yesterday as it was a fresh situation), and whatever happens, we'll know better the next time.

 

And, in the meantime, you can find a nice Mossberg 500... I would say nicer quality, probably more aftermarket parts, and has a safety on the tang.

[Cixelsid 1]

Things I Learned from this thread.

• Don't talk too much while picking up your purchase at FFL.
  
• Don't bring anyone with you while picking up your purchase at FFL
  
• FFL can and will deny anyone they feel like denying
  

 

Did I miss anything?

[pjd832 146]

Things I Learned from this thread.

• Don't talk too much while picking up your purchase at FFL.
  
• Don't bring anyone with you while picking up your purchase at FFL
  
• FFL can and will deny anyone they feel like denying
  

 

Did I miss anything?

*NJ SUCKS

Lol

[71ragtopgoat 23]

I just get a kick out of all these posts not one person stuck up for shore shot. The best they could muster is I bought there once with no problems. That place must be very bad. If they are reading these posts this should be a wake up call to make some changes as to how they treat people. Its obvious customers only go there because of limited competition or ignorance.

As to the OP I suggest you let the Mrs do all the talking when she's the buyer. NJ has some crazy laws so when dealing with them just stick to the facts.

[DJ_ 0]

Things I Learned from this thread.

• Don't talk too much while picking up your purchase at FFL.
  
• Don't bring anyone with you while picking up your purchase at FFL
  
• FFL can and will deny anyone they feel like denying
  

Did I miss anything?

I was thinking this too but if we show up alone and say very little like one word answers, they may think we are the next nut job to shoot up a place. Seems like NJ/ATF has setup a perfect no win situation by making everyone shit scared of possible penalties.

[Howard 538]

Things I Learned from this thread.

• Don't talk too much while picking up your purchase at FFL.
  
• Don't bring anyone with you while picking up your purchase at FFL
  
• FFL can and will deny anyone they feel like denying
  

Did I miss anything?

 

No sure that is true. Get to know people so they see you as a person rather than as a suspect. Troy (one of the moderators here) introduced me to one of the owners at the local FFL that know him well. He then told the guy that once I get my permits he would come in with me and the three of us would work together to select the correct purchase(s). I think actions like this are the best way to avoid potential problems.

[Cixelsid 1]

I was thinking this too but if we show up alone and say very little like one word answers, they may think we are the next nut job to shoot up a place. Seems like NJ/ATF has setup a perfect no win situation by making everyone shit scared of possible penalties.

 

This reminds me of the "soup nazi" episode on Seinfield. Short one word answers. or else... No soup for you!

 

 

but in all seriousness. with all the background checks involved with getting an FPID you would think this nonsense wouldn't occur.

[AverageJoe 95]

Things I Learned from this thread.

• Don't talk too much while picking up your purchase at FFL.
  
• Don't bring anyone with you while picking up your purchase at FFL
  
• FFL can and will deny anyone they feel like denying
  

Did I miss anything?

Boycott SS.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Shore Shot caters to the weekend commandoes. They come in droves from New York and North Jersey to rent guns, sweep the line, and make fools of themselves every weekend. Go see for yourself. So, back to the FFL and transfer question. Since the OP has already paid for the shotgun plus the shipping fees, how much of that money will they get back from the original seller if SS decides not to perform their end of the transaction? There are several good FFL's that advertise on this forum. There are a LOT of good FFL's out there that don't. For many it is a part-time business and they can pick and chose who they want to deal with. Some will only accept new customers based upon the recommendations of good existing customers. I don't blame them. Why take a chance dealing with people they don't feel comfortable with. Good luck OP. I hope you get all your money back and chose someone reliable to deal with.

[BlueLineFish 615]

what about selling it to someone else and letting them pick it up. You get your money back. They pay for nics and transfer

[DSD1026 48]

we're just going to have SS send it back to the online vendor (I spoke to them today and everyone agreed that it was best to do that). we will deal directly with the seller about the return and take it from there.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

When it goes back to the original vendor ether have it sent to Ira at legend firearms in Marlboro or Vinny at hunting world in freehold.

With either, you will toto their house to do the transfer and have a pleasant person to shoot the sh!t with in a stress free, no bullsh!t manner.

Neither will give u grief

[M4BGRINGO 139]

From Shore Shot: Shore Shot Pistol Range commented on your link. Shore Shot Pistol Range wrote: "Thank you for bringing this up on here where we have a chance to share our side of the story. First the employee was the owner Bill. Now you must understand that being the holder of a FFL we are held to very high regards and are trained in certain situations such as "Straw Purchases" which is punishable up to 10 years in jail and 250,000 dollar fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase http://www.dontlie.org/FAQ.cfm Now form the perspective that the customer has explained it seems like it is not but now look at it from our perspective with the fines and penalties that we are subject to. Two customers come in store. Man and women. Man says we are here to pick up our shotgun. When asked what kind customer says Maverick 88. Continues to talk about firearm as it is his. When going to initiate paperwork. Customer now states that the weapon is not his and is for his wife. This is a text book example of a Straw Purchase. When the owner asked to see his firearms ID card (and have he had it there would be no problem at all) customer says he does not have one. At this time the owner said he can not transfer the firearm because it raises red flags. As a FFL we reserve the final right to transfer any firearm and hold the responsibility behind it. If we think that a sale is not legal we will not jeopardize our business. We are unwilling to risk anything that seems shady and we do not do business like this. Sorry the customer is unhappy but we have now reported this to the ATF and after an investigation if it is deemed no a straw sale we will transfer the weapon no problem. But we have been in business for 20 years and do not plan on being shut down on a shady transfer of a shotgun. We do things by the book at Shore Shot and this was by the book. Sorry that the customer believed this was rude but we are looking out for the good of the firearm community and will not engage in illegal activities that give anti-gun advocates any more ammunition then they already have."

[NJSlick 0]

Shore Shot caters to the weekend commandoes. They come in droves from New York and North Jersey to rent guns, sweep the line, and make fools of themselves every weekend. Go see for yourself. So, back to the FFL and transfer question. Since the OP has already paid for the shotgun plus the shipping fees, how much of that money will they get back from the original seller if SS decides not to perform their end of the transaction? There are several good FFL's that advertise on this forum. There are a LOT of good FFL's out there that don't. For many it is a part-time business and they can pick and chose who they want to deal with. Some will only accept new customers based upon the recommendations of good existing customers. I don't blame them. Why take a chance dealing with people they don't feel comfortable with. Good luck OP. I hope you get all your money back and chose someone reliable to deal with.

 

+1....I have never felt so uneasy at a range before. These idiots come down swinging the gun in all directions, leaving the safety disengaged. I knew SS had a bad rep and thats why I used Tony from TJ Sporting Arms for my purchase last week and I will be shooting at CJRPC in the future.

[iRONman 7]

I'd still never go to them.

[NicePants 58]

Wow. Shoreshot has some real dickheads working there. That is absolute crap.

[jm1827 284]

Not that I have ever gone there, but after this I definitely won't, wow is right!

[remixer 1,645]

Things I Learned from this thread.

• Don't talk too much while picking up your purchase at FFL.
  
• Don't bring anyone with you while picking up your purchase at FFL
  
• FFL can and will deny anyone they feel like denying
  

Did I miss anything?

 

 

Dont't judge every FFL or Firearms store based on the experience the OP had with Shore shot.

[remixer 1,645]

we are held to very high regards and are trained in certain situations such as "Straw Purchases" which is punishable up to 10 years in jail and 250,000 dollar fine. http://en.wikipedia..../Straw_purchase http://www.dontlie.org/FAQ.cfm Now form the perspective that the customer has explained it seems like it is not but now look at it from our perspective with the fines and penalties that we are subject to.

 

Will another FFL chime in.. Maybe i missed something in the FFL Process. I did not get that "Training". I was told to read and understand the rules. But to call themselves trained might be a stretch and makes it sound as if the ATF did specific training and this is justifying this mess. I would have respected a simple answer of "We feel the wife was buying the firearm for her husband who is not a FID holder and we refused the transfer and we felt it was straw purchase". But to mention training to prop up their side is a load of crap.

[PK90 3,573]

According to the post above that says it was taken from ShoreShots facebook page, it implies that only one visit took place. Was not paperwork filled out in the first visit?

 

ETA: If the NICS check was done on the wife originally, and ShoreShot says

..When going to initiate paperwork. Customer now states that the weapon is not his and is for his wife. This is a text book example of a Straw Purchase...

and I missing something here?

 

Steve, I think the "training" was during a visit of the IOI and ATF videos.

[remixer 1,645]

I spoke to the OP and am under the impression this was the second visit only to pick up the firearm. The 1st visit was to fill out paperwork.

[PK90 3,573]

ShoreShot implies that it was one visit and they denied the transaction. On the service, it appears that they were uncomfortable doing the transfer. I have no problem with that.

 

If the OP's wife initiated paperwork in a prior visit, the OP threw a wrench in the works by stating what they claim. The OP created a situation that would make me uncomfortable finalizing the sale.

 

Of course, we can all "Monday Morning Quarterback" this situation. Unless one is present when it happened, there will be two sides of the story. I don't think there is a third side, just the two sides intermingled within each other.

[JustJoe 0]

As I said in the beginning of this mess, I was standing next to the wife every single time she ever purchased a firearm. I handled every firearm at the store as she was purchasing it. She wouldn't go or do without me. Shooting is a family affair for us.

She has been present at some purchases I've made and has done likewise.The difference between my situation and the OP's is that both my wife and I have our FPID.

 

I would like to publicly thank every store owner/employee that has ever helped me and the wife making those purchases for not treating us as a criminals as we were attempting to purchase a **legal** product in a legal manner and kept the a-hole factor to a minimum. She have been outright nice. Imagine that.