I Disagree With the FAQ - Please Correct Me.

[phoenix_iii 0]

"You may also not have a magazine that exceeds NJ legal capacity in the form of a "kit" or disassembled in pieces."

 

I see no such law that prevents one from having all of the components to build a magazine, but disassembled. For arguments sake, let's say you purchased a mag outside of NJ, disassembled it, and brought it back into the state. [some websites will even mail standard capacity magazines to NJ disassembled]

 

Note: A magazine is not a weapon.

Note: Our law says '...readily capable of feeding...' - A magazine in pieces in a bag is not readily capable of feeding anything.

Note: Our law is not the CA law, which reads (summarized) ...'...readily capable of feeding or being assembled into a working...'

 

 

Thank you for the help!

[MartyZ 697]

I might be wrong but I think a dis-assembled magazine might fall under the constructive intent clause.

 

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Constructive possession

[MartyZ 697]

I will play devils advacate here. Contructive intent/possetion stipulates that a person has possetion of all parts required to assemble, in this case a 30 round AR mag. What if said person has the main body, follower and spring but does not have possetion of the floor plate. Would that be illigal? You can't contruct a working mag without a floor plate.

[ryan_j 0]

That's a damn good question. I wonder if this would apply to 3D printed magazines?

[GRIZ 3,369]

AFAIK there is no case law regarding constructive possession. Lacking that you can err on the side of caution and not have dissembled magazines over 15rds or possess them and perhaps be the test case. Your choice.

[Chvl67 0]

Absolutely insane. So we have laws which punish without INTENT of a crime that we MAY commit, and further punish for PARTS that we MAY be able to assemble into something scary. Good God the masses who agree with this are unbeleiveably stupid. I'm waiting for the ThoughtPolice to make it illegal to even THINK about purchasing a firearm. It's coming folks. It's coming.

[Shane45 807]

We have laws for things that dont even exist yet. Look up NJ smart gun law when you get a chance.

[Howard 538]

Yea got to love this crazy state. Next you will get ticketed for possessing a car which could exceed the legally posted speed limit

[siderman 1,139]

Yea got to love this crazy state. Next you will get ticketed for possessing a car which could exceed the legally posted speed limit

 

Laugh while you can because right now some idiot democrat assemblyman is about to introduce another bill- BS101- which states that if your cars speedo has 120mph on it they can ticket you for intent to speed.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

This may apply:

 

2C:39-9h.Large capacity ammunition magazines. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of a large capacity ammunition magazine which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

Just sayin'

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Chvl67 0]

We have laws for things that dont even exist yet. Look up NJ smart gun law when you get a chance.

I'm well aware of it--at which time would make every single firearm in the state illegal.

Yea got to love this crazy state. Next you will get ticketed for possessing a car which could exceed the legally posted speed limit

I use that argument as it relates to the PRIVILEGE of driving, and how if your vehicle is capable of a certain speed, you do in fact have intent to do so. I have no doubt that there will be someone drafting such a bill. I also ask why, if drunk driving is illegal, are all vehicles not equipped with the breathalyzer interlock device. If it saves one life...

[phoenix_iii 0]

So no one has hit it yet.

 

Constructive Intent/Possession applies to Weapons (AR15 upper and lower, 'readily assembled into...')

 

I have not seen anything that applies to magazines. Magazines are not weapons.

 

I appreciate Pizza Bob's input, however, 2C:39-9h does not apply. We are not talking high capacity magazines (read description of high capacity magazines). We are talking about parts/pieces to assemble. Readily capable of feeding nothing.

 

I think the safest bet, for me, is to have all the parts in baggies, and keep all of the floor-plates, or springs, or some critical part, at another location (in-laws, who have zero gun stuff), in another bag. Although not convenient, it is walking distance...

 

p3

[GRIZ 3,369]

So no one has hit it yet.

 

Constructive Intent/Possession applies to Weapons (AR15 upper and load, 'readily assembled into...')

 

I have not seen anything that applies to magazines. Magazines are not weapons.

 

I appreciate Pizza Bob's input, however, 2C:39-9h does not apply. We are not talking high capacity magazines (read description of high capacity magazines). We are talking about parts/pieces to assemble. Readily capable of feeding nothing.

 

I think the safest bet, for me, is to have all the parts in baggies, and keep all of the floor-plates, or springs, or some critical part, at another location (in-laws, who have zero gun stuff), in another bag. Although not convenient, it is walking distance...

 

p3

 

It looks like you're forming a conspiracy.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I might be wrong but I think a dis-assembled magazine might fall under the constructive intent clause.

 

I think this only applies to the ATF and Federal machine gun laws...

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Constructive possession

 

Is there any citeable law or case law to support this?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

This may apply:

 

2C:39-9h.Large capacity ammunition magazines. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of a large capacity ammunition magazine which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

Just sayin'

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

lol, so don't assemble it or throw it away...

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

Is there any citeable law or case law to support this?

 

AFAIK there is no case law in NJ regarding constructive possession. There are statutes that cover conspiracy.

[Maksim 1,504]

Do a search, we have discussed this over the past 4 years. =)

 

Constructive possession.

 

As far as vendors shipping you parts kits... I can probably find vendors or people to ship high cap standard capacity magazines too. Much the same, when you go to PA, or anywhere out of state, no one is going to ask for ID when you are buying firearms accessories. It is your obligation to know the law.

[Tack Tickle 0]

This is not my opinion, found it on a NJ criminal attorney's web site. I would assume it true, it is afterall on the internet...

 

Large Capacity Magazines: this is defined as any container, body or other chamber that is capable of providing over fifteen rounds of ammunition continuously and directly to a semi-automatic firearm.

This crime is punishable in the fourth degree.

A conviction of a fourth degree crime imposes a sentence of up to 18 months in prison.

 

Now in my opinion, the body would be considered a magazine whether you had a spring or floor plate in it.

[Maksim 1,504]

This is not my opinion, found it on a NJ criminal attorney's web site. I would assume it true, it is afterall on the internet...

 

Large Capacity Magazines: this is defined as any container, body or other chamber that is capable of providing over fifteen rounds of ammunition continuously and directly to a semi-automatic firearm.

This crime is punishable in the fourth degree.

A conviction of a fourth degree crime imposes a sentence of up to 18 months in prison.

 

Now in my opinion, the body would be considered a magazine whether you had a spring or floor plate in it.

 

The OP is splitting hairs by saying that the mag body, without the spring or mag plate, will not "continuously feed"

[johnp 45]

I understand you are trying to play devils advocate here but what is the point in having the components to build a standard capacity magazine if you can never legally make it functional in this state?

[Old Dog 19]

After dealing with and fighting International Trade and Transportation laws for 40 years I have learned that you cannot rely on what the law says. In many cases there is case law or decisions made that define or alter that law. I have even often come across laws that were ruled invalid that government officials still use on unsuspecting companies. In many cases, the officials were unaware of the laws. There are so many laws out there that no one knows which are still good, which have been altered or struck down by courts or defined as meaning something other than what they appear to say. That is why you must go to a lawyer that specializes in the type of law you are interested in. I have had a few jobs aiding attorneys who, while good at filing the right documents, legal procedures, etc., were not as knowledgeable in international law as I was. I have yet to meet a person with enough righteous indignation who chose to bankrupt himself by becoming a test case over a small matter.

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

Large Capacity Magazines: this is defined as any container, body or other chamber that is capable of providing over fifteen rounds of ammunition continuously and directly to a semi-automatic firearm.

This crime is punishable in the fourth degree.

A conviction of a fourth degree crime imposes a sentence of up to 18 months in prison.

 

 

this is the answer....

disassembling a 30 round magazine does not negate its ability to function... simply disassembling it does not remove the magazines capability to function... the only thing that would make it not a "large capacity magazine" is to alter it in such a way that it can no longer accept more than 15 round...

 

NJ has already stated this on more than one occasion... and they are clear the intent is to disallow possession of magazines that feed over 15 rounds..

 

 

Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

they are very clear that any temporary condition of compliance is not good enough to them... they state that if it is "temporarily modified" (taken apart for example) is STILL considered a large capacity magazine.... in the literal reading of the definition there is no distinction between temporarily blocked or disassembled because it states its still a large cap mag unless it is permanently modified....

 

they are illegal to have in NJ, per the literal wording..

[1LtCAP 4,264]

so with this all in mind.....is it illegal to recieve the parts for one, then go straight to your gunsmith, and have it permenantly modified to hold 15 or less? as in......would your gunsmith be obliged to turn you in?

[PK90 3,573]

 

Sent from my DROID4

 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i'm guessing that means yes.......or get them modified before bringing them in. but then.....how do those that would enforce the laws know they're modified to only accept the legal limit?

[vladtepes 1,060]

NJ law defined the device as illegal if it can hold more than 15 rounds...

NJ law defined modifications that temporarily adjust the capacity as insufficient..

 

this literal reading to me means the following... it is illegal to have a magazine that holds more than 15 rounds in NJ at ANY time... having the mag blocked temporarily down to 15... having the mag taken apart... etc.. are all temporary conditions.. therefore they do not satisfy the disclaimer about permanently altering the mag...

 

the idea is this...

you can not have any large capacity mag ever.. the ONLY time a large capacity magazine stops being one is if it is permanently altered... permanently altered is unfortunately not defined... so you have to go with logic... logically there are many conditions that are not permanent... a simple wooden block... disassembled.. etc.. is obviously not permanent.. the idea is to disallow large capacity magazines.. so if you use modified ones you are acting at your own risk... when I lived in NJ I always just got my mags from a NJ dealer.... doing that transferred the risk to them..

[1LtCAP 4,264]

that makes sense.........

[olderguy 0]

Absolutely insane. So we have laws which punish without INTENT of a crime that we MAY commit, and further punish for PARTS that we MAY be able to assemble into something scary. Good God the masses who agree with this are unbeleiveably stupid. I'm waiting for the ThoughtPolice to make it illegal to even THINK about purchasing a firearm. It's coming folks. It's coming.

 

They have already convicted a cop in NY for thinking about eating women