Article: Rise of the Warrior Cop

[bhunted 887]

As far as yester-year and today, our avenues and boulevards for the most part, are no longer dirt. In other words, today's society has surpassed the days of Barney Fife and Gomer style. Police, their gear and their tactics need to rise to the occasion. They need to be tougher and stronger than the bad guys as we all need to be.

 

When there are more people involved in the decisions and more tactical tools, there stands to be a higher ratio of problems. Like was said in this thread, everyone is human and humans make mistakes. We can only hope to learn by them.

And I know for one, that I do not like making mistakes. Will I realize I made one? Hopefully... Will I make the same one again? I hope not. But sh-t happens and as long as Murphy's Law is around, mistakes will continue.

 

But in no way, shape or form, should we back peddle our technology or methodology.

We just need to keep learning and perfecting.

 

 

 

 

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[Vlad G 345]

Are you saying the world is less safe now then in the past? The stats disagree.

[bhunted 887]

I'm by no means referring to "the world".... I'm talking here in the U.S....

We are more safe now.... But if I get some the drift in this thread, people think we are over powered... I don't see that. Am I reading it right?

 

Are you saying the world is less safe now then in the past? The stats disagree.

 

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[bravozulu14 0]

Whether it's a SWAT issue, a balance unchecked issue, a para-military issue, a lack of training issue.... whatever it may be,

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/08/third-amendment-violated-nev-police-allegedly-invade-familys-home-to-use-during-swat-call-arrest-two-for-obstruction-when-owner-refuses/

 

this, if true, is revolting. 

[Vlad G 345]

I think regardless of weather you think police forces are overly militarized or not, as a police officer you should take a long hard look at how the population views the police. When they look at a police officer do they see someone that is there to help or someone to avoid? Do they see officer Friendly or do they see the dude spraying kids with pepper spray?

 

The hard truth is that for most folks the police are just the harassment arm of the local government, if not outright enforcers of a increasingly oppressive government. It doesn't matter if it is true or just a perception, you have to ask yourself were that perception comes from.

 

You might get up every morning to uphold the law, but when the law becomes so intrusive that one has a hard time living a daily life without committing a crime, the last thing the population wants to see is a overly armed police. Look at some of the comments made in this thread about how the civilians should shut up about it because they don't understand tactics. I dunno about most people but I talked that way to my employer I'd be out of a job, so ask yourself who you are protecting and serving, the population or your chief and its politician bosses?

 

Look at the vocabulary. You say compliance, we hear infringement of our rights. You say officer safety and we hear over reaction. Is it fair? Probably not, but police officers need to be aware of the image they are projecting via words and actions. By necessity, few people know their local cop anymore and rarely does the cop know the names of the people in his area, population density will do that. If I walk by a parked officer in my neighborhood and I say "hello officer Brian" most of the time I get a jump and a suspicious look just for knowing the mans name. This is the level of detachment growing between the police and those they are meant to protect and serve. Every time you add a layer of body armor, gear, electronics, or a custom built cruiser, your adding another layer to the devide growing between us. You should consider who that serves.

 

Does it serve the population that starts seeing the police as a tool of the increasingly absurd political system? Does it serve to not alienate the police officers from the people he serves? Or does it serves those who would prefer we lived in fear of each other because any division is another method of control. There are cops on this forum that know me personally and know that I have nothing but respect for the job you guys do. But I also occasionally talk to people who happen to be minorities who have grown up thinking of police as nothing more then another mechanism of oppression, and these folks don't live in a ghetto, they are collage graduate professionals who live in half million dollar homes. Increasingly, they are not a minority in that view. If you are a police officer you should think real hard about the effects of this increasing divisiveness and weather you are digging the crevasse deeper or working to bridge it.

 

edited: I had to reformat this because tapatalk went stupid on formating.

[djg0770 481]

You might get up every morning to uphold the law, but when the law becomes so intrusive that one has a hard time living a daily life without committing a crime, the last thing the population wants to see is a overly armed police. Look at some of the comments made in this thread about how the civilians should shut up about it because they don't understand tactics.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

 

 

From the book linked above:

 

The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day.

 

Why?

 

The answer lies in the very nature of modern federal criminal laws, which have exploded in number but also become impossibly broad and vague.

 

In Three Felonies a Day, Harvey A. Silverglate reveals how federal criminal laws have become dangerously disconnected from the English common law tradition and how prosecutors can pin arguable federal crimes on any one of us, for even the most seemingly innocuous behavior. The volume of federal crimes in recent decades has increased well beyond the statute books and into the morass of the Code of Federal Regulations, handing federal prosecutors an additional trove of vague and exceedingly complex and technical prohibitions to stick on their hapless targets. The dangers spelled out in Three Felonies a Day do not apply solely to “white collar criminals,” state and local politicians, and professionals. No social class or profession is safe from this troubling form of social control by the executive branch, and nothing less than the integrity of our constitutional democracy hangs in the balance.

 

While the above volume is directed at Federal laws, I believe that the same morass of laws exists right here in little old NJ.

[bhunted 887]

Vlad, I'll just comment on the first paragraph of your post because there are too many variables in the post.

 

No matter how large or small the force is, the demographic will dictate the way people feel about leo... Most honest citizens have no reason to fear them in most cases. But when in areas of so called oppression, an leo is very rarely anyone's friend in the civilian's eye. It will remain that way as long as there are people who like to insight hate and/or just hate in general.

 

I just had a discussion last week about his. Misery loves company and this goes at any level. It's hard to please people no matter good or bad. In turn, they make everyone miserable around them. The mislead and misinform.

 

Again... It's demographics for the most part. Big cities vs the burbs for instance. In my town, we have a blacked out Humvee and a tactical unit. Outside of parades, I've never seen it in use thank goodness. Along with that are good weapons for the all so misunderstood, "just in case moment"..., I honestly think in my demographic, the only one's hating leo in any capacity are the ones that felt they were done wrong or have done wrong. For the most part, they are/were guilty. And even decades ago, hte were the kids that loved the police and others that thought it was kewl to call us pigs. Call it bad up bringing, lack of education, whatever. If people are not corrected or educated properly, things will never change.

 

One of my in-laws is a good example. Good family, good kid. But the kid was never allowed to view anything police did or learn how to interact with them. After many arguments, I gave up and prayed the kid would grow up smarter than the parents.

 

This is what I mean about variables....

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HDTypos courtesy Apple...

[Vlad G 345]

Call it bad up bringing, lack of education, whatever. If people are not corrected or educated properly, things will never change.

 

 

I agree with you to a point, but consider the education thing from both sides. For every hour of tactical training how many hours are spent on community relations training? For every blacked out armored vehicle how many hours are spent on actually walking the streets and say hello to people?

 

You are correct that town size makes a huge difference, the bigger the place the greater the alienation between the police and the public, but that is exactly why in that situation you have to work harder to have the police officers being viewed as members of the community.  Mostly this doesn't happen. I live in a town where the police department is actually quite decent, they don't harass people, they don't run speed traps, gun permits are relatively quick, etc. Even here I almost never see a police officer simply walking down the street and saying hello to the residents. If I see one walk into a coffee shop, they are in and out and rarely converse with the locals.  I think this is a critical mistake.

 

Combine the above with the increasingly military look of police and the Officer Friendly now comes across a lot more like an occupation force. You say most citizens have no reason to fear them .. but that's not true. It is quite impossible to not break some law today. Be it some obscure building code, some complex gun law, accounting law, tax law, removing the tags from mattresses, whatever.  We now have truly victim less crimes that carry penalties heavier then manslaughter.  I don't know a single person who can stand up and say "I am 100% sure I have never committed a felony, accidentally".  We are at the point where one has to worry about having their business raided over what kind of wood they built a musical instrument from.

 

Lets put this in the context of gun laws. If I am John Q Public driving home from the range and I get in a fender bender, and you are the responding officer and see guns in my now bashed open trunk .. what are the odds I'm going home in the next couple of hours, even if I committed no crime? Worse, what if one of my mags springs is worn and that mag that used to hold 15rd now holds 16rd, even if I don't know it?  I don't know if the responding officer doesn't give a crap and sees the situation for what it is or wants to win cookie points with the chief.  Was my stop for gas legal or not? What if I got out of the car and bought a cup of coffee at 7-11?

 

We are beyond that point now, everyone probably is a criminal via some law they are not even aware of.  In that context it is even more important for police to be viewed as members of the community and for police to truly interact and know their community and not be viewed as armed enforcers for political machines.

[SgtToadette 59]

Very well stated posts, Vlad.

 

[maintenanceguy 510]

Whenever the police are better armed than the citizenry is allowed to be, the balance of power is wrong.  I realize that's not a normal view in most places in our "modern" society.  I'm surprised it's not the common belief here. 

 

Back to the original post about the man raided for half a dozen pot plants in his basement.  He was going to come out of his house and go to work at some point.  He could have easily been picked up in lots of other places without needing a swat team and 7 people getting shot.  If a no-knock raid was warranted, a search warrant to find his 6 pot plants could have been gotten after he was peacefully picked up in a traffic stop, getting out of his car at work, or in the Walmart parking lot.  

[jrfly3006 42]

^{So what you  are saying is that LE went out and put together SWAT teams and bought military grade technology to "oppress" the good citizens of this country and be good goons for the legislature that passed the laws:..  because ...you know  It had nothing to do with the drug cartels and street gangs who had similar military equipmennt and training( in both the US and foreign armies)..or the home grown and domestic terrorists who are hell bent on killing people to make a point.....or perhaps the EDP who wired his home to go boom when you  that "all that's necessary is a two man patrol response" walk through the door....nope its all for watching you guys all day and the to swoop in and take your door when you break a law...Let me guess....you guys see helicopters following you around. too..Im sorry but if you  call cops an occupation force and say they are oppressive because they don't walk down streets and say hello..or because they wear military type BDU's..but are nice when they don't run speed traps.....you are way of course...Ive been called many things in 15 years of LE....an occupier or oppresser...never...}

[colnar 0]

@maintenanceguy,: I agree 100%. The problem seems to be less thought is given to low confrontation searches and more to making a scene. This may not been true, but this is the perception that is being created by these actions. When the police can be much better equipped than the civilians it is wrong. It may be different in other countries, but in America we have every right to the same scale of weapons as lawful citizens as the police have.

 

@jrfly3006: I think it was more of the police armed up to defeat the criminals they were facing and it was the politicians who used that opportunity to disarm the populace and use the police to control the public.

[jrfly3006 42]

@maintenanceguy,: I agree 100%. The problem seems to be less thought is given to low confrontation searches and more to making a scene. This may not been true, but this is the perception that is being created by these actions. When the police can be much better equipped than the civilians it is wrong. It may be different in other countries, but in America we have every right to the same scale of weapons as lawful citizens as the police have.

 

@jrfly3006: I think it was more of the police armed up to defeat the criminals they were facing and it was the politicians who used that opportunity to disarm the populace and use the police to control the public.

Right... So who should we blame.. The cops or ourselves collectively for voting such politicians into office?

[Vlad G 345]

Sorry jrfly3006 it is almost irrelevant if you think yourself as an oppressor, a hell of a lot of people consider you as such. The question is why? What broke, because it wasn't always like this.  Can you honestly tell me that most people you interact with are happy to see you, or do they avoid you?

 

It might not even be your actions.

 

We've always had gangs. Gangs in general are symptom of a failed government but that is a different conversation. We've always had drug runners or booze runners or whatever.  And a lot of people are rather sick of listing to the terrorism thing, we've given up a hell of a lot of rights under that guise and lets face it the average police officer doesn't do a lot terrorism fighting anyway.  How often to people blow up their own houses to trap police?

 

It is a big ass country so you can find an incident somewhere that you can use for this logic, but police is now off the top 10 most dangerous jobs. I don't see farmers, roofers, loggers, or fisherman asking me to pay for their protection or give up my rights so they have a safer life. I know if sounds cold to hear that I may not be willing to trade everything for officer safety, but then what is the point of having any rights? I mean police would be a lot safer we we all didn't have guns so lets get rid of civilian gun ownership.

 

I don't think accusing people of being paranoid black helicopter loons helps this conversation. There are a hell of a lot of people out there who view police with suspicion today, who feel that police no longer works for them. Again, truth or unsubstantiated perception, it doesn't matter if you think they are right, it matters that it is happening. Hell, look at this thread alone. Do you really think that everyone here is a loon? Do you think we all wired our houses or grow pot in our basement? Yet almost everyone not a cop thinks that things are out of order.

 

Ultimately we all bare the responsibility for this state of affairs, from voting for idiots, to increasing the divide, from individuals failing to recognized that there people behind the badge and cops who think they want to be soldiers and everything in between.  But we can hide from it and pretend it isn't happening or we can have a conversation without calling each other names and try to figure it out.  Look at the divide in this thread alone, there is a problem that needs to be talked about, even if we don't like that it exists or it will only grow larger.

[colnar 0]

I agree with ValdG. There is something wrong and we are all to blame to some degree or another. We need to figure this out together.

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'm not blaming the police, at least not the individual officers.  We're mostly to blame for wanting the government to take care of us no matter what the cost.  The government will always try to take more and more control of the people.  I don't think it's a conspiracy.  They (our elected leaders) believe we (the people that elected them) are idiots and dangerous and that we need them to think for us and control us.  We have collectively let them do just that.

 

If I was an officer making entry in an unknown situation, I would want the best weapons, best armor, and every technology that would keep me alive.  But with that power comes the risk of hurting or killing people unnecessarily and sometimes killing innocent people or the wrong people.   The militarization of the police has resulted in the deaths and serious injury to lots of innocent people across the country.  Maybe the collateral damage is worth getting these 6 plants out of some guys' basement.  It isn't to me.

[bhunted 887]

Hmmmmmm.... When the police are better armed than the civilians... Hmmmmm.... So you are saying police vs. civilians is the issue? Don't you mean the police vs. the bad guys? Isn't that what we are missing? Aren't they trying to be up one on the criminals? Do we recall Los Angeles or any other scenario where the cops were out gunned? How many arm chair quarterbacks watched that and said the cops can't hit he broad side of a barn? They didn't have the right weapons. So how do we even the score without staying less than or equal to the citizens? Does that even make freaken sense?

 

Ok, so a pot growing turd... Not the best or worse scenario. But without analyzing the whole story, (cause I just don't want to), what makes you think it could not have been worse. Criminals have been known to do worse protecting less.

 

Without going into details, I had a case that involved a major pot growing fugitive that was wanted by the FBI.... Major growing technology, tons of weed, etc. If you saw the sh:t, pardon the expression, he was growing, do you think he would not try out gun a couple uniforms?

 

 

@maintenanceguy,: I agree 100%. The problem seems to be less thought is given to low confrontation searches and more to making a scene. This may not been true, but this is the perception that is being created by these actions. When the police can be much better equipped than the civilians it is wrong. It may be different in other countries, but in America we have every right to the same scale of weapons as lawful citizens as the police have.

 

@jrfly3006: I think it was more of the police armed up to defeat the criminals they were facing and it was the politicians who used that opportunity to disarm the populace and use the police to control the public.

 

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[bhunted 887]

I agree with your first paragraph. But the second part, well.... We live in a vastly populated country that this affects. I do not know the exact stats, but what we hear about might be a very low percentile of serious injuries or deaths. What do you consider a lot compared to our total population? Is or could this be the same concept that even with all the planes in the skies, it's still safer to fly?

 

10 innocents die via Swat vs. 319 million people? 100? 1000? Follow?

Are we just going by what the media says? True statistics? What?

 

I'm not blaming the police, at least not the individual officers. We're mostly to blame for wanting the government to take care of us no matter what the cost. The government will always try to take more and more control of the people. I don't think it's a conspiracy. They (our elected leaders) believe we (the people that elected them) are idiots and dangerous and that we need them to think for us and control us. We have collectively let them do just that.

 

If I was an officer making entry in an unknown situation, I would want the best weapons, best armor, and every technology that would keep me alive. But with that power comes the risk of hurting or killing people unnecessarily and sometimes killing innocent people or the wrong people. The militarization of the police has resulted in the deaths and serious injury to lots of innocent people across the country. Maybe the collateral damage is worth getting these 6 plants out of some guys' basement. It isn't to me.

 

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Typos courtesy Apple...

[Kimber45 3]

Hello all just came across this thread and Iam a bit bothered. It seems like some dont truly understand what's going g on here. The fact is that most of the people that have a disliking for Leo are ones that have done wrong. Iam a corrections officer in a county jail and I have seen alot of messed up stuff.there are so called humans that would not think twice about putting me in the ground if they had the opportunity to do so. These are the same so called humans that would have no problem raping your wife or daughter while they made you watch. Or maybe the gang bangers that to make rank need to kill a cop any cop.....today's Leo face a much broader advisary smarter,more informed and out gunned in most cases....not to mention Joe public snapping away with there cell phones getting only half the story and the media running with it. As Leo there are many guidelines and SOP that need to be followed and many are political bullcrap so Iam sorry if so many feel like the police have too much power or arnt too friendly I disagree. We are not superheros although some days I wish I was...I got into law enforcement to help people without thinking of myself first. My first priority is to protect the public as best I can but the public needs to trust us also.its a two way street. Yes I wear BDUs to work I carry a sidearm I belong to a tactical team and we do have big guns. Its all in the name of keeping the public safe..so please cut us a break...please remember were here to protect you.... thank you.

[Soju 153]

Anyone ever notice how all the blue uniforms and blue and white police cars that were once the standard seem to be all black now? Notice how what would once have just been a normal conversation often becomes a request for ID or a lecture? Ever hear something like "just comply if you've done nothing wrong"?

 

Well that seems to be the directions things are going, and I can only imagine it is by design. As someone else pointed out, there is no longer a balance of power. There is a monopoly on it. And it isn't on the side of the citizens.

 

Until there is some actual accountability, equal enforcement, and no more of this hypocritical attitude that certain people should be able to do things but others absolutely cannot without being a criminal, you will continue to see the divide becoming larger. 

 

Look at the post above mine. I'm honestly not sure if it is satire or not.

 

Its all in the name of keeping the public safe

 

"Don't question us, it is for public safety"

 

Yes I wear BDUs

"I work in a prison, but I need to be in jungle camouflage"

 

 

 

the people that have a disliking for Leo are ones that have done wrong

"I don't know who you are, but you are already a criminal to me and will be treated as such."

 

.please remember were here to protect you

"I know you didn't ask, but I'm going to need to protect and serve the crap out of you unless you prove your innocence."

[jrfly3006 42]

Anyone ever notice how all the blue uniforms and blue and white police cars that were once the standard seem to be all black now? Notice how what would once have just been a normal conversation often becomes a request for ID or a lecture? Ever hear something like "just comply if you've done nothing wrong"?

 

Well that seems to be the directions things are going, and I can only imagine it is by design. As someone else pointed out, there is no longer a balance of power. There is a monopoly on it. And it isn't on the side of the citizens.

 

Until there is some actual accountability, equal enforcement, and no more of this hypocritical attitude that certain people should be able to do things but others absolutely cannot without being a criminal, you will continue to see the divide becoming larger. 

 

Look at the post above mine. I'm honestly not sure if it is satire or not.

really?...all black police cars.. I know theyre so scary looking.. That color screams constitutional violations in progress.. But then again so do the all black Lincoln town cars picking up people at the airport

[jermz1987 243]

LOL these threads make me laugh sometimes. Its always goes the same. 

 

1. Someone Posts a Topic with a link or story that has something to do with shining a negative light on law enforcement.

 

2. Some people agree. 

 

3. Then the cops on the forum step in to try and justify or explain why something the way it is. 

 

4. Then someone says something Offensive about cops for no reason.

 

5.  People go to name calling..

 

6. Then the thread is locked. 

[Handyman 5,682]

Most of the people who would offer an alternative viewpoint have been permantely banned from nj gunforum, havent you noticed how loud the crickets seem?

Those of us who weren't banned just don't give a crap anymore. Have a great week, everyone.

[checko 180]

LOL these threads make me laugh sometimes. Its always goes the same. 

 

1. Someone Posts a Topic with a link or story that has something to do with shining a negative light on law enforcement.

 

2. Some people agree. 

 

3. Then the cops on the forum step in to try and justify or explain why something the way it is. 

 

4. Then someone says something Offensive about cops for no reason.

 

5.  People go to name calling..

 

6. Then the thread is locked. 

^^^this

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

No offense but I'd venture to say 97+/-% would drop a steamy chalupa in their tactical pajamas as opposed to possessing the skill set to come from a dead sleep to firefight in the seconds it took for the entry team to have them proned out at gunpoint.....

 

And swat teams don't identify themselves as Leo upon entry?

 

 

the other night I was messing around with my guns... I had a Saiga 12 next to the couch... it happen to have the drum sitting it it (12 rounds) with 6 rounds of 00 buck and 6 slugs in it.... just sitting there.. it just so happened to be out.. I can tell you with complete certainty that if someone kicked in my door.. even if they were yelling police.. I may not have any idea who they are or what is going on.. the shock might take over.. I might sit there and piss myself.. or I might dump that entire drum in their direction assuming it is some insane home invasion... the notion of the police raiding me is totally foreign since I am a law abiding citizen... I am sure if I raised the gun.. or fired.. I would be mowed down in a hail of gunfire..but with 12 rounds of 12 gauge coming the other way it would be a bad day for all.. 

 

the truth is I understand the notion of raiding a house.. but if you are wrong even once... and cause the loss of a citizens life... or cause an unjust firefight.. then unfortunately you lose the right to do that shit IMO... you can't go around smashing into peoples houses and be wrong.. there is NO excuse for that... %100 sure or nothing... if you tell me you can never be %100 sure? then guess what.. find them on the street.. I support LEO completely... but do not under any circumstance support behavior that puts law abiding citizens at risk...

 

"sorry didnt mean to smash in your door at 3am... shoot at you.. and then hold your 13 year old kid at gun point... turns out the streets are numbered funny here.. and we were looking for the house next door.." sometimes sorry doesnt fix it.. 

[maintenanceguy 510]

I know a couple of officers who were on an entry team where a drug house was raided.  Only, it wasn't the right house.  Informant got the directions wrong and the detective didn't do his due diligence to follow up on the details.  Apparently there is a lot of work involved in verifying an informant's informant before a warrant can be requested.  None of that was done.

 

The police raided the house next to the drug house by mistake.  Lady was home with her two little kids.  She put up a fight, swat team broke her arm.  The entry team realized immediately that this isn't a drug house and they're standing around looking at each other wondering what to do now.  Detectives were in "oh sh!t" mode - all they could find was insulin syringes in the fridge.  Home owner was able to provide her prescription - with her one good arm.  Detectives, not willing to admit they made a mistake, charged her with for having the needles for her insulin.  Little kids went to DYFS, mom went to jail.

 

There was an undisclosed settlement.  Nobody knows the details.  The investigation into what went wrong took more than 30 days.  Union contract says that any discipline has to be brought within 30 days of the incident.  No disciplinary action for the detective that made the mistake.  not even a letter in his file.

 

Neither the raid nor the settlement ever made it to the news.  Nobody knows what happened except for the officers involved, and the lawyers on both side, and the few of us that have heard the story from those that were there.  So how often does this sort of thing happen that we don't hear about it?  Who knows but too often.

[djg0770 481]

Union contract says that any discipline has to be brought within 30 days of the incident.  No disciplinary action for the detective that made the mistake.  not even a letter in his file.

 

Waiting for the 5-0 to comment on this.  Accurate or BS?

[RUTGERS95 890]

I know a couple of officers who were on an entry team where a drug house was raided.  Only, it wasn't the right house.  Informant got the directions wrong and the detective didn't do his due diligence to follow up on the details.  Apparently there is a lot of work involved in verifying an informant's informant before a warrant can be requested.  None of that was done.

 

The police raided the house next to the drug house by mistake.  Lady was home with her two little kids.  She put up a fight, swat team broke her arm.  The entry team realized immediately that this isn't a drug house and they're standing around looking at each other wondering what to do now.  Detectives were in "oh sh!t" mode - all they could find was insulin syringes in the fridge.  Home owner was able to provide her prescription - with her one good arm.  Detectives, not willing to admit they made a mistake, charged her with for having the needles for her insulin.  Little kids went to DYFS, mom went to jail.

 

There was an undisclosed settlement.  Nobody knows the details.  The investigation into what went wrong took more than 30 days.  Union contract says that any discipline has to be brought within 30 days of the incident.  No disciplinary action for the detective that made the mistake.  not even a letter in his file.

 

Neither the raid nor the settlement ever made it to the news.  Nobody knows what happened except for the officers involved, and the lawyers on both side, and the few of us that have heard the story from those that were there.  So how often does this sort of thing happen that we don't hear about it?  Who knows but too often.

with multiple leo family members, you'd be surprised how many 'mistakes' happen.  That said, people make mistakes but it's how you handle the mistakes that counts

[Combat Auto 174]

Here is a true story which is a great metaphore for some of the themes didcussed above:

 

A close friend of mine was pulled over while driving recently for speaking on his cell phone - no other trafic violation (find a law to be broken to fit every citizen); the Officer let him go without a ticket when he showed the Officer his PBA card (the elite "police-class" withs special privilages).

 

Everyone on this board LEO/civilian alike knows this goes on all the time.

[carl_g 568]

The superior who called in this raid should be charged. A nightime raid based on a tip from an angry ex-girlfried for a couple pot plants?? Does the nature of the accusation really deserve a navy seal-like raid? They obviously had a search warrant. Couldn't they have watched his house and picked him up when he left and then executed the search?