CHRISTIE VETOS!

[ryan_j 0]

I will be thankful for small favors. I know that in reality this celebration will be short-lived, because when I look beyond Christie to his successor, what do I see?

 

I see myself getting out of here.

[Parker 213]

If he wins re-election and doesn't sign any new ridiculous anti bills, I see it as a few more years to plan my escape.

 

This fits in with my plan, for I wrote NJ off a long time ago. We move in five years. I can stomach the wait, but it will be tortuous. 

[djg0770 481]

It wasn't a win blah blah blah.

 

If he had signed we would all be screaming for the fat man to sing.

 

I really don't care why he didnt sign, all I care is that he freaking vetoed when many of us feared that he would just refuse to act and the legislation would automatically become law.

 

I still think he's a crony political hack but I guarantee you that if this crap legislation had been on the desk of an NJ gov with a D we would all be praying for a quick death.

[voyager9 3,434]

“One person with one of these guns and incendiary armor piercing bullets could knock down a chemical plant and kill hundreds of people. Chris Christie clearly is courageous for his place in the Republican Party, but not for the residents of New Jersey,” Miller said.[/size][/font][/color]

I think those rounds are on sale at cabella's for 8.99/box. It must be the cheap Russian stuff if it only kills hundreds. The American stuff kills trillions. /s

[ryan_j 0]

You guys who are complaining, I have one word for you: California. They have it much much worse, and it's about to get much much worse. 

 

Yes, we don't have it as good as Vermont, Utah, or Florida but I will take what I get and fight for the rest until I can move. 

 

We still don't have:

 

10 or 7 round mags. Yes, 15 is crappy but it's not 10 or 7.

Mandatory firearm registration. 

Ban on internet/out of state ammo purchases

Ban on detachable magazines

 

We also held this off until mid august when the worst ultimately failed. NY, CT, CO had theirs rushed through. NY passed theirs in the dead of night and they just passed another law in the dead of night. 

 

It's not perfect and it's not what I wanted by a long shot but it's remarkable given what we had to work with.

 

I still want to fight for my right to bear arms outside of my home even though people say it's impossible. I believe we have the momentum to push for this sort of stuff. 

 

But really you can't please everybody! Illinois got SHALL issue CCW and people are still complaining. Jeez!

[Tom609 27]

I read in the iBurlington County Times this morning that Brian Miller brought a "non functioning" 50 cal. Rifle to the state house yesterday to demonstrate some asinine point. Can anyone confirm this? I would like to know what charges he now faces.

[ryan_j 0]

t he freaking vetoed when many of us feared that he would just refuse to act and the legislation would automatically become law.

 

I never thought he would for a second!!! And I was wrong about one thing, him signing the .50cal bill, which I thought he'd do. 

 

But he wouldn't go and be passive. Christie is a take the bull by the horns kinda guy. He acts, even if he acts against us. 

[ryan_j 0]

I read in the iBurlington County Times this morning that Brian Miller brought a "non functioning" 50 cal. Rifle to the state house yesterday to demonstrate some asinine point. Can anyone confirm this? I would like to know what charges he now faces.

 

I hope that a-hole didn't have a FID card. I want to see him spend at least 3 years in prison!!!

[Tom609 27]

From the article...

 

Earlier Friday, gun control advocate Bryan Miller took a disabled .50-caliber sniper rifle to the Statehouse to demonstrate its destructive capacity.

"These are military weapons designed and manufactured to destroy material targets such as chemical plants, refineries, chemical and rail tanks and passenger aircraft, targets that abound in New Jersey," he said. "A potential attack with a .50-caliber weapon could have a catastrophic environmental impact in the Garden State."

[Handyman 5,682]

From the article...

 

Earlier Friday, gun control advocate Bryan Miller took a disabled .50-caliber sniper rifle to the Statehouse to demonstrate its destructive capacity.

"These are military weapons designed and manufactured to destroy material targets such as chemical plants, refineries, chemical and rail tanks and passenger aircraft, targets that abound in New Jersey," he said. "A potential attack with a .50-caliber weapon could have a catastrophic environmental impact in the Garden State."

 

Now they aren't even worried about people anymore - its an environmental issue?

[jm1827 284]

Now they aren't even worried about people anymore - its an environmental issue?

And because the infamus 50 cal has been used in soooooo many other crimes/environmental catastrophes in the past!

[Contrvlr 17]

From the article...

 

Earlier Friday, gun control advocate Bryan Miller took a disabled .50-caliber sniper rifle to the Statehouse to demonstrate its destructive capacity.

"These are military weapons designed and manufactured to destroy material targets such as chemical plants, refineries, chemical and rail tanks and passenger aircraft, targets that abound in New Jersey," he said. "A potential attack with a .50-caliber weapon could have a catastrophic environmental impact in the Garden State."

Hmm

How in the heck do you demonstrate destructive capacity with a disabled firearm ? You can't, it was brought as a prop

Which guy is the bigger idiot, the anti-gun zealot or the reporter ? TIE

[M1152 713]

It wasn't a win.  Are we better off with the bills he signed into law?  Net 2 against, 1 for.  So essentially we give up more and think its a win?  Wow we should celebrate we didn't get as screwed as we could have. 

It's a win for the antis.  We give up something they give up nothing, and the pro community calls it a win?  SO more rights get trampled and I should say thank you to the RINO POS?  No thanks. That's how we got in this hell hole in the first place. 

 

I'll celebrate when all that's needed to purchase a gun is a background check and proof of age.  Same for carry. 

I’m not partying, I’m just relieved ….  Pardon the pun but we dodged a bullet. To answer your question of course we are no better off and the point is it could have gotten worst.  If you want ”better off” or a CCW you could either wait until the Libertarians take control of both houses (LOL) or pack your bags.   The Dem lawmakers are the ones that put all this shit forward and they aren’t going to do anything to support RTKABA. 

 

So let’s review,  CC shot down the first round and then approved the second round and yesterday finally shot down round 3 which were the most intrusive bills.  The bills he approved were weren’t even in the same league as what got turned back yesterday. Also keep in mind one bill was a good bill for us. IMO we got in this “Hell hole” (as you describe it) because of the Florio AWB. That was the elephant sticking his nose under the circus tent. Now the elephant is even further under the tent thanks to the current Dems.  Florio had nothing else to bring to the table except Tax and Spending so the AWB was no more than smoke & mirrors.  I’m wasn’t a CC fan because he threw his support behind the original AWB but I give him credit for yesterday.  CC was an unknown at that  point in time but his stock just went up in my book for yesterday’s actions.

 

Am I happy with the current laws, absolutely not but like I said it could have went from bad to worst with the stroke of a pen.  The Dems have to be thrilled with this and will probably integrate this into their campaign platform, run on it and use it against him by any means necessary. I think he’s going to get drilled by the Libs on this and I appreciate that he did the right thing and had the balls to shoot it down.  Love his or hate him he is very calculating so as an observer only I’ll be very interested to see how he answers the criticism which you know is coming…  If you want to moan over the passage of the round-2 bills there is nothing I could do about that. Be advised there was a post here earlier this week which was a YouTube vid of an ANJRPC rep stating after CT massacre there were 85 bills introduced by the NJ legislators so and considering we are at now I’ll take it, YMMV.

[PDM 91]

Maybe we'll hear less of the "RINO" crap now.  A far right wing conservative isn't going to win the Whitehouse and sure as hell aint going to win the governorship (or a senate seat) in NJ.  Chritstie is pragmatic and I've always liked him.  We have become way too polarized in this country.  As Christie pointed out the other day, Republicans need to win in order to govern and in order to win in this state they need to occasionally compromise and take moderate positions.  I'm just very, very worried about what happens when Christie leaves office.

[halbautomatisch 60]

It wasn't a win blah blah blah.

 

If he had signed we would all be screaming for the fat man to sing.

 

I really don't care why he didnt sign, all I care is that he freaking vetoed when many of us feared that he would just refuse to act and the legislation would automatically become law.

 

I still think he's a crony political hack but I guarantee you that if this crap legislation had been on the desk of an NJ gov with a D we would all be praying for a quick death.

THIS^^^^^^

 

For those of you who don't think this is a big deal, when was the last time a gun control measure landed on a NJ Governor's desk and was vetoed???????? - yeah, NEVER.

 

If Corzine had won reelection we all might be considering moving to NY right now to escape the horrendous gun laws we would have here in NJ.........they would have been way worse than this vetoed nonsense.

 

I'm not saying Christie is a gun owners new best friend, but he did the right thing on the bills that really mattered the most and should be given credit for doing so.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I still think sweenys bill will be back. And you will see a fid needed to buy all ammo.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[BlueLineFish 615]

I will give him credit for actually using logic. That is rare for a politician

[halbautomatisch 60]

I praise your optimism, but do you really think we would get good judges? Look at his 2 AG picks. We would get liberal, progressive POS judges that don't give a crap about the constitution. The only difference is they would have an R after their name instead of a D.

Well, something to consider, Christie so far has had to nominate judges that he thinks he can get approved by the Democrat controlled Senate,. So your not going to get far right conservative judges nominated, if the Republicans take over, that won't be a problem anymore.

 

 

 

The other thing to remember, even if a judge is not strong pro 2A, but is willing to read our state constitution for what it says rather than what they think it should say, we are going to be much better off.

 

No more replacing doomed Democratic Senate candidates after the law says it is not allowed, but then not allowing a special election for Governor when it would benefit  Republicans.

 

No more forcing the state to spend a half a BILLION dollars a year (or about $20,000 per student per year) on only 31 urban school districts that have abysmal records for educating children - ever wonder why your property taxes are so high in NJ? This is a major reason, your school district might get $600 per student a year in state aid, while the Abbot districts are getting over $20,000 per student of your tax dollars.

 

These are a couple of some of the more egregious decisions that came from the NJ supreme Court, but the list goes on and on.

[charleslee 44]

Happy, happy, happy!!!

Sgt. Toadette: Love that clip.

[charleslee 44]

Happy, happy, happy!!!

Sgt. Toadette- Love that clip.

[galapoola 102]

I'll take it, let's just not forget who we're dealing with here.

For those of you who missed this 1995 campaign poster, look at the small print at the very bottom                                                                    

[Dan 177]

We might disagree with millers stance....however we cannot deny the fact that the 50bmg rifle is a very effective anti material weapon...and used as such in combat operations......so his statement is accurate....that being said.......when has a criminal in no used one to do any of those acts in nj or the conus?

 

The .338 Remington Ultramag has been and is being used as a very effective anti-personnel round in theaters of war by our military. Should we give that to them also? Lump that in with 5.56, .308... all being used for anti-personnel purposes. Meanwhile here in the USA, we go through millions of rounds per year used in a safe and sporting manner.

 

The same argument applies to any type of common in-use firearm platform in our country that shares heritage with military counterparts.

 

Don't fall into the trap. There are other cartridge types other than the 50BMG that could be used in anti-material capacity with the right kind of round. They start with the 50BMG, then in a few years go after those. This is why they started down the muzzle energy route. Anything over "xxxxx" muzzle energy is illegal. They can start really high now, then every once in awhile lower that bar, thus wiping out whole swaths of cartridge types. It is the same AWB tactics at work. They parade big scary looking black guns in front of uneducated legislators and harp about how "this is only for use in war for killing people and blowing things up".

[plode 0]

Just had this conversation with my wife.......

 

SC... Home 329k built 2007.... Three bedroom 2.5 bath....two car garage etc.... Taxes... 1,638 per year.... I'm paying 12k....for Fugging NJ....bullshite....

 

My friend in FL was renting a place in NJ.  $1300 a month, plus utilities.  

 

He moved to FL, bought a 4 bedroom house in a nice neighborhood, has a 2 car garage, 2.5 baths, an in-ground pool(with huge solar heater on the roof and a waterfall), a massive covered patio with a bar, and the house was built in 2007.  His mortgage is $800/month, and his taxes are $166 a month(2000/year).  

 

We pay $3000 a quarter here in taxes(12K/year...same as you Nickjc) in NJ.  

[mipafox 438]

 

We might disagree with millers stance....however we cannot deny the fact that the 50bmg rifle is a very effective anti material weapon...and used as such in combat operations......so his statement is accurate....

 

 

His statement was that the .50 caliber was designed to destroy chemical plants, refineries, "chemical and rail tanks," and passenger aircraft.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth, and his statement was completely inaccurate.

 

The .50 caliber was designed to put half inch holes in people and thin skinned vehicles. That is what it was designed to do.

[Parker 213]

Just had this conversation with my wife.......

 

SC... Home 329k built 2007.... Three bedroom 2.5 bath....two car garage etc.... Taxes... 1,638 per year.... I'm paying 12k....for Fugging NJ....bullshite....

 

My sister-in-law started the "family exodus." They purchased a home in New Hampshire. She is actively coercing all family members to get out of New Jersey and move up there with them. (I like the idea.) My wife is finally beginning to seen the light. She traveled with my sister-in-law to help her look at homes there and she really liked the area as well.

 

Honestly, I could live in the bush in Maine and be happy. So long as I could get to town for gas, ketchup and gunpowder; I could suffice.

[pjd832 146]

 

 

His statement was that the .50 caliber was designed to destroy chemical plants, refineries, "chemical and rail tanks," and passenger aircraft.

Nothing could be further from the truth, and his statement was completely inaccurate.

The .50 caliber was designed to put half inch holes in people and thin skinned vehicles. That is what it was designed to do.

This !

[PDM 91]

Very well said Nickjc.  We too often see gun rights advocates distorting the facts in order to counter the antis' propaganda.  In the wrong hands. a .50 cal barrett presents a greater risk than a .308 for example.  It has a significantly longer range and signicantly more terminal energy.  Similarly, a 30 round magazine does present more of a risk in the hands of a madman than a 10 round magazine.  Yes, someone with training can swap mags pretty quickly, but having a larger capacity magazine potentially makes a shooter marginally more lethal.  If that weren't the case why would we care about owning normal capacity 20 or 30 round magazines.  They are more effective -- both when used for good or for evil.

 

We don't need to distort the facts to make our arguments:  While a .50 cal is marginally more "dangerous" in the hands of someone intent on evil, it has legitiamte civilian uses and can be seen to be in "common use" to us SCOTUS's language.  Even more clearly, semi-automatic rifles and normal capacity mags are most definitely in common use for lawful purposes, particularly self-defense.  That is really the end of the analysis.

[voyager9 3,434]

I don't see where in the wiki quotes above it mentions anything about a round DESTROYING a chemical plant. All guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. And the .50 perhaps more so.. But Destroying an industrial building? Either he's confusing that weapon with MANPADs or he's scaremongering.

[Dan 177]

You making an assumption and reading into what I typed and Your missing my point.................................

 

I am ONLY stating the his statement, about the 50BMG Rifle is ACCURATE..........  I am not falling into any trap...  I am not siding with them....  I am not a fudd...  etc...

 

My statement is simply to say that what he said is accurate and if we are to lambaste him, let's do so on facts and not misdirection etc......

 

Do you deny the fact that the type of round for the rifle in question, is NOT used for that purpose on the battlefield, OR, could be used like that in a civilian environ..?

 

I am not questioning the legality of ownership etc...I am merely stating that what he said is correct......... 

 

Yes, I am well aware of ballistics and what can be used for what....however, in the realm of the .50BMG it is more of an anti-material round than personnel...IMO......not that it has not been used for both....

 

 

To that end......  ANY firearm, ANY projectile, ANY hammer, ANY knife, ANY gasoline can...in the hands of evil can kill and destroy....

 

I would love to have one and be able to shoot it etc....however that is the REAL BIG BOY TOY and out of my reach............at this time in my life...

 

Don't worry, I didn't think you turned or are a FUDD. I shouldn't have said "trap".

 

My point is that many firearms in common use today have military counterparts and military uses. Yes we can agree with the anti's that with the right ammo a .50bmg is capable of firing an incindiary AP round through 1/4" steel from 800yards out. Sure. The same is for a myriad of other types of firearms that , along with the right round can accomplish similar feats, with maybe the only difference being they may need 500 yards instead. This is what we need to educate people on. If a terrorist wants to blow up a refinary, the 50BMG is just one of thousands of options to do something like that... firearms or non-firearm related. It is foolish and short-sighted for anti's and legislators to believe that banning law abiding folks from owning a certian type of gun will reduce risks of terrorist attacks on our infrastructure. There are thousands of these types of guns out there now, and it is foolish to think a well planned plot couldn't involve bringing up military-use-only weapons from central america via the Mexico/US border, like a RPG or rocket artillery round. What are we doing about that threat? I'm more concerned with that scenario then a long range target shooter and his $10,000 .50bmg rifle (who is the only type of person that will even fathom complying with a ban, as terrorists don't care about laws). This is the point that we have to drive home for certian.

[mipafox 438]

 

OK with the proper intelligence as well as with the proper scouting......I would submit that you could render a chemical plant, refinery etc... inoperable to a degree with some well placed shots....

 

As an example...........maybe I shouldn't but..take for instance the bulk fuel farm at JFKIA.......full of aviation fuel......hmmmm  some well placed rounds into that facility could do some damage....no?

 

Do some research on oil refineries....    and their operations....there was an advance team of marines as I recall that were specifically trained to advance and capture a refinery in southern Iraq...and one of the the things that you MUST look for is the bleed off flame...if no flame the plant is either shut down properly or being severly over pressured...  thus capable of explosion and full destruction....  look it up...go on its ok....you can do it...

 

 

Don't need to do any research. I lead a team that performed Security Vulnerability Assessments on dozens of DPCC and TSCA/TCPA facilities in NJ after Corzine signed the executive oder accelerating the requirement. Dozens out of a total of 144 that met the requirement in NJ at the time. So, a good chunk of what exists.

 

The guy says they were designed to destroy chemical plants and commercial airliners. That's complete hogwash and alarmist bs.

 

So, would shooting a bulk fuel Tank Farm cause some damage? It certainly could. Well placed rounds at an oil refinery? Doubtful.

 

But, in either case, how many people working at oil refineries or petroleum terminals usually die when there are catastrophic calamities that destroy large portions of the facility? The average number is less than one. Hundreds of civilians? No, more like zero.

 

For a guy that knows so much about these things, you don't do a very good job at "research." And certainly not at picking targets