Discussion with a PA gun guy

[Howard 538]

So I was at an IDPA match in Easton PA today and was talking with a guy from PA.  I explained that I was not shooting the gun I wanted to today as I did not have enough mags as the ones that came with the gun are out getting pinned as they were 16 rounders and I could not take possession.  He said oh yea I  forgot about NJ laws.  I explained to him the entire FID and P2P and OGAM crap and he was shocked.  I asked him the procedure in PA, he said you go to the gun store and buy a gun, or multiple guns as you want.  Wow, we were both shocked at how it was for each other.  Then he explained that like a woman never goes to the mall without a purse he never goes to the mall without a carry gun on his hip.  Wow, PA sounds almost like a totally different county than NJ

[diamondd817 827]

 I asked him the procedure in PA, he said you go to the gun store and buy a gun, or multiple guns as you want. 

 And there is not blood running in the streets? Must not be possible! 

 

 

PA is a different country, it part of America, like so many other States are. NJ is an oppressive, anti-American, anti-Constitution State.

[mcbethr 42]

That's pretty much it.  I shoot at a range in South Philly and I've seen full-auto Uzis there and HK's with suppressors.  

 

I am considering moving across the river one day... 

[the_stranger 13]

Maybe that's what "America starts here" meant.

 

Had a guy at a gun show in PA last week that would not even sell me a rifle

When he found out I was from NJ. Too many laws in NJ he said.

 

Kills me when I think about the differences, since I live about 1.5 miles from the

Delaware.

[TooBigToFit 2]

So I was at an IDPA match in Easton PA today and was talking with a guy from PA.  I explained that I was not shooting the gun I wanted to today as I did not have enough mags as the ones that came with the gun are out getting pinned as they were 16 rounders and I could not take possession.  He said oh yea I  forgot about NJ laws.  I explained to him the entire FID and P2P and OGAM crap and he was shocked.  I asked him the procedure in PA, he said you go to the gun store and buy a gun, or multiple guns as you want.  Wow, we were both shocked at how it was for each other.  Then he explained that like a woman never goes to the mall without a purse he never goes to the mall without a carry gun on his hip.  Wow, PA sounds almost like a totally different county than NJ

They're worlds better over there, though they have every handgun (dealer and private) sale go through FFLs, with the sale being registered.

 

The company I want to work for is in the Pittsburgh area. Put in an app for them, hopefully I get it. I want to move into the area, for so many reasons more than the 2A (it's actually not a high priority on the list, though it is a big plus).

[mipafox 438]

 

Maybe that's what "America starts here" meant.

 

[diamondd817 827]

 

 

That's friggin awesome!  And so true.

[M1152 713]

 

 

They use to have one on Rt 1 as just as soon as you went over the Bridge and hit Morrisville PA but one of the NJ Governor's  requested it be removed. It was either Florio,  Whitman or McGreedy don't remember which but all about the same IMO

[mipafox 438]

That's the one I used to see.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I remember this same sorta sign on Rt. 78 West, just after the DJBTC toll bridge.  I think Dick Thornburgh had them installed!

[maintenanceguy 510]

After more than 40 years in NJ, my first gun experience outside the state happened this summer.  I carried in 9 states, bought ammo without an FID, almost bought a shotgun at a pawn shop, and nobody got hurt or killed. 

[Vini 0]

 

 

 

Yeah, good neighbors. They make fun of us starting from the welcome sign. 

[Sludog 0]

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines.  I have several friends who moved to PA from NJ and they are miserable. They are not gun owners but they moved because they thought things were better on the other side. Now they wish they could come back but sadly they admit they can not afford to live in NJ. 

[pbkid6974 1]

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines. I have several friends who moved to PA from NJ and they are miserable. They are not gun owners but they moved because they thought things were better on the other side. Now they wish they could come back but sadly they admit they can not afford to live in NJ.

 

its not about need. Is about having the natural born right stripped away in the guise of public safety. You're the kinda guy that let things get so bad here in the first place.

[tom catman 0]

+1 above

[Malsua 1,422]

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines.  I have several friends who moved to PA from NJ and they are miserable. They are not gun owners but they moved because they thought things were better on the other side. Now they wish they could come back but sadly they admit they can not afford to live in NJ. 

 

I suppose you're all for  "common sense" gun laws too?  Like 7 round magazines, one gun a year, and universal gun registration.  You probably also don't see why anybody needs a semi-automatic rifle that is black and looks scary.

[ReadDude 0]

When I shoot at the range, I normally only put  5 rounds in the magazine. That is because I like to shoot 5 round groups and compare over time and it drains my wallet ever so more slowly. I have absolutely no desire to tell someone else how many rounds to put in their magazine. If they have a need/desire to put 60 rounds in the AR extended mag and dump it in 60 seconds. I'd be happy to help them, but It is is not my place to tell them to save their dough.

 

I also don't believe I have any business telling them how, when or where to buy their means of personal protection, how to put a dog in my car, how I identify my 17 year old in his car, ruin people's lives over stupid juvenile pranks by labeling them as sexual predators, regulate every aspect of someone's real estate, etc..

 

NJ regulations are the worst in the country on a whole range of issues not just 2A, PA is marginally better, but no utopia. That place disappeared about 80 years ago with the New Deal. We are a processed, sliced and diced and boxed-in society today. It is only an issue of degree.

 

BTW, CA in totality is actually much worse than NJ. So we do have the going for us, sigh. We are probably only 2nd worst when it comes to regulation.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

Florida same and it will be 85f today

[Sixtytwo327 14]

After you're done admiring PA's gun laws (and we all do), mention in an offhand manner how you're relieved that in Trenton, our corrupt, leftist, philandering, klepto-maniacal "representatives" led by our bloviating gas-bag-governor still manage to pass a budget every year... then ask how that Harrisburg bankruptcy thing panned out.

 

That'll shut 'em up.   

[HBecwithFn7 296]

When I shoot at the range, I normally only put  5 rounds in the magazine. That is because I like to shoot 5 round groups and compare over time and it drains my wallet ever so more slowly. I have absolutely no desire to tell someone else how many rounds to put in their magazine. If they have a need/desire to put 60 rounds in the AR extended mag and dump it in 60 seconds. I'd be happy to help them, but It is is not my place to tell them to save their dough.

 

I also don't believe I have any business telling them how, when or where to buy their means of personal protection, how to put a dog in my car, how I identify my 17 year old in his car, ruin people's lives over stupid juvenile pranks by labeling them as sexual predators, regulate every aspect of someone's real estate, etc..

 

 

Magazine sizes are a tricky subject, in general, for both sides. The only time a certain mag size truly matters is when one is actually under fire / exchanging fire, and how many are exchanging fire on each side. At that point, it's about ensuring that you don't have to worry about breaking concentration (and fire), needing to reload more often than your opponent. Otherwise, without that pressure, one can reload "at their leisure" as much / as many times as they want.

 

Unfortunately, both sides can use the same argument to facilitate their respective agendas, both as a matter of safety *and* self-defense. The "anti's," who want smaller mags for anyone (except active LE), are reacting I believe to "Newtown" type incidents where someone goes in and sprays fire all over the place. The problem, of course, being, without someone there offering "counter fire" against the "sprayer," it doesn't matter what the sprayer's mag sizes are. If their reloading skills are good enough, they (bad guy) can sit there all day and reload with no fear. Is it truly realistic to believe than an unamred person could approach a bad guy (while they're reloading) and take the gun away? But if someone is there to offer counter fire (i.e. "good guy with a gun"), then it's on, and it comes down to how quickly both sides can reload and how often they need to (and, thus, break concentration/fire). The "pro-2A" folks, of course, want sizes that minimize their need to "reload" in similar home / self defense (or other "target shooting/competition") scenario(s). That, as well as the general fighting against "restriction of 2A rights" issue.  I support that fight in the fullest.

 

I don't think that limiting magazine sizes is going to help combat Newtown like scenarios. I think what will be more of a help there is having more good guys closer by to offer that "counter fire." The sooner a bad guy can be confronted by a good guy, the better.

 

Likewise, don't restrict my ability to defend myself in the process. I can easily see a home defense scenario (2-3 armed invaders breaking in) where 7-10 rounds per reload would be totally insufficient. And, unless the anti's are going to pay for a "private security" firm for me, , I don't think they should be telling me how many rounds I can load. It's my perception of "safety" that matters, not theirs.

[Howard 538]

While what you say above is all true, that is only part of it.  I just bought a gun that comes only with 16 round magazines.  Because of this stupid law I could not take possession of them and my FFL has them waiting to get them pinned to 15 rounds - how F'ing stupid.  So, I have to wait and pay more money because some idiots in Trenton arbitrarily decided that 15 is safe and 16 earns me a cell in state prison.  Further it would be nice if we could have USPSA matches here in the swamps of Jersey that allowed true "limited" competition like free states have.  Further our costs go up because until CO just became stupid, we were the only state with 15 round mag limits so supply was always low and prices high compared to "normal" mags.

[Vini 0]

[HBecwithFn7 296]

 

My apologies.... "Magazine."  Original post edited.

[mikelets456 78]

After you're done admiring PA's gun laws (and we all do), mention in an offhand manner how you're relieved that in Trenton, our corrupt, leftist, philandering, klepto-maniacal "representatives" led by our bloviating gas-bag-governor still manage to pass a budget every year... then ask how that Harrisburg bankruptcy thing panned out.

 

 

 

That'll shut 'em up.

I do like the gun laws in PA but I do like the 3% income tax better than the almost 8% I paid in NJ. I PAY 70% less for car insurance, less for private school and property tax. The better freedoms are an added bonus.

 

However, due to over reach from the federal government, it will be a moot point very soon. We need to all hang together or assuredly hang alone....Ben Franklin.

[mcbethr 42]

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines. 

 

Eh, What's funny is that I love my 15+1 round Beretta, but my Kel Tec with a capacity of 10 has been doing nightstand duty.  So I understand about capacity, but the problem is that capacity will never be enough for our legislators.  15 then 10. Then 7 then 5 then 2 than 1 then none.  I'd rather be able to choose what is right for me than have that choice forced upon me.

[mipafox 438]

 

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines.  I have several friends who moved to PA from NJ and they are miserable. They are not gun owners but they moved because they thought things were better on the other side. Now they wish they could come back but sadly they admit they can not afford to live in NJ. 

 

 

I agree 100%.

 

I think you should pass a law to protect NJ residents from themselves so they can't move to PA and be miserable.

[mipafox 438]

 

Yeah, good neighbors. They make fun of us starting from the welcome sign. 

 

 

We don't put EMS in jail when they cross the river to answer a call on the other bank of the river and police find an HP rolling around on the floor of their gunless car.

[vladtepes 1,060]

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines.  I have several friends who moved to PA from NJ and they are miserable. They are not gun owners but they moved because they thought things were better on the other side. Now they wish they could come back but sadly they admit they can not afford to live in NJ. 

 

 

I moved from NJ to PA...

 

I make as much or more money than I made in NJ...

cost of living is far less (in NJ I paid $825 for a small 1 bedroom apartment, in PA I pay $850 and have a very large 2 bedroom townhouse with a deck and a garage/basement)

People are never really in a rush and are generally nicer..

There are some "drug issues" as there are anywhere... but for the most part crime is nonexistent... there are people that still leave doors unlocked.. 

government makes more sense in most cases... I had to register my vehicle I purchased.. it took literally 5 minutes and I wasnt required to fill out any forms or anything crazy.. in and out in less than 5 minutes with a signature..

Obviously very pro gun... pro freedom in general.. 

 

there are maybe a couple things I miss about NJ... but they are few and far between and I could NEVER imagine moving back...

I am certainly not miserable in any way...  

[Night Prowler 0]

As much as I love shooting, I would never move from NJ to PA because of their lenient gun laws. I don't need to walk with a gun on my hip and don't have the need to walk in a gun shop and buy 4 pistols at a time or the need for large capacity magazines. I have several friends who moved to PA from NJ and they are miserable. They are not gun owners but they moved because they thought things were better on the other side. Now they wish they could come back but sadly they admit they can not afford to live in NJ.

I wouldn't call PAs gun laws lenient. Without a CCW in PA the handgun laws are very similar to NJ, to and from the range no deviation. They have the same background checks as we do except its instant. I was in a gun shop in PA one time and saw a guy denied a pistol from an arrest from 25 years ago. Their system is efficient and painless. Think about our application for handguns here. You apply for your permits and pass that check. Go to buy a handgun and run a check again. Ogam to prevent what? If I end up flipping out and decide to go on a shooting spree I'm going to buy a new handgun and not use the ones I have? The whole problem with NJ is its moronic, everything about it.

[Sludog 0]

I wouldn't call PAs gun laws lenient. Without a CCW in PA the handgun laws are very similar to NJ, to and from the range no deviation. They have the same background checks as we do except its instant. I was in a gun shop in PA one time and saw a guy denied a pistol from an arrest from 25 years ago. Their system is efficient and painless. Think about our application for handguns here. You apply for your permits and pass that check. Go to buy a handgun and run a check again. Ogam to prevent what? If I end up flipping out and decide to go on a shooting spree I'm going to buy a new handgun and not use the ones I have? The whole problem with NJ is its moronic, everything about it.

The forum members that are always whining and crying how bad NJ is and how great PA is will for gun ownership will disagree with you and probably be ripping your comments apart real soon.  Although they will have a lot to back up how much more gun friendly PA is. 

If moving to PA works for people and their families they by all means do it and live long and prosper. To the people who can't move or are to afraid to move please spare us the constant complaining and bitching. Stir up some courage get a damn Uhaul and move already.