What This Forum Lacks...

[Vlad G 345]

Why isn't there a balance, Vlad?

 

So you are saying that balance exists only if it matches your ideas? I'm not sure you and I have the same definition of balance.

 

Personally I'm done arguing with you. Not because I feel somehow threatened by your non-arguments, but because I think it is the only way to get you to say less silly things that make us all look like dogmatic closed minded people.

 

 

 

This thread would never have happened in a more freedom-loving state.

 

See .. things like that one, which is beyond nonsense.

[Old School 611]

Okay, here is the voice of another female shooter who used to be involved here. Believe me, I'm not thin-skinned and I don't get insulted easily. I've been through enough life-crap in the last 2 years that would have broken a lot of men.

 

It's this type of attitude that makes me laugh---no, the women who Sandy referred to (I'm one of them) really do NOT want to discuss shoes whether or not they're related to firearms. I'm not insulted by this ridiculous statement, it just lowers my respect for the character of NJGF, which is what made me lose interest.

 

Feel free to return to your debates regarding conservative vs liberal, men vs women, democrats vs republicans, etc.

 

Thanks for stopping by and I for one appreciate your input.

 

There are strong women and strong men.  Congrats for getting through you $hit!

 

Hey I'm married to a Retired Senior Master Sargent so I guess I appreciate and respect strong women...LOL

 

She's a defensive shooter and one day on a dare she stripped my AR a little to detailed than I expected...LOL

 

Thanks again for your input and hang around for some jollies.

[5th4x4 0]

From what I've read here.... there is no shortage of women on NJGF.

[notmetoo 41]

Wow....

Just wow

 

[Sandy 44]

I'm not insulted , Im embarrassed I recommended the forum. You are right that some women would prefer more typical feminine topics than how to sight in your rifle , but you are wrong in assuming that women who ARE interested in talking firearms won't mind the the type of stuff that is in this thread. If you don't want women here , that is fine. It really is.It is too bad since I know quite a few skilled women shooters who love to talk shop but they were all kind of put off by the bickering and generalizations in this thread. You do realize women were put off by the level of bickering. Think about that for a minute guys.

 

Honestly , I don't even know why I care since I have had nothing butpositive experiences within the shooting community here. So obviously the few here don't represent the people I have met face to face. Thank goodness.

 

I just feel a bit bitten by enthusiastically sharing this thread with a large group of women who shoot , are not concerned about Coach holsters , only to have them come here and see it degrade into men arguing with each other and some painting all women with a very broad stroke. The response was pretty much along the lines of " what a bunch of old fashioned a holes " .

 

So , topic over. These women in the group belong to various active FB groups for firearms owners and you honestly see none of this there. Well , some arguing when a hot topic comes up , but nothing along the lines of this.Shoes ? Really ?

[Underdog 1,593]

I'm not insulted , Im embarrassed I recommended the forum. You are right that some women would prefer more typical feminine topics than how to sight in your rifle , but you are wrong in assuming that women who ARE interested in talking firearms won't mind the the type of stuff that is in this thread. If you don't want women here , that is fine. It really is.It is too bad since I know quite a few skilled women shooters who love to talk shop but they were all kind of put off by the bickering and generalizations in this thread. You do realize women were put off by the level of bickering. Think about that for a minute guys.

 

Honestly , I don't even know why I care since I have had nothing butpositive experiences within the shooting community here. So obviously the few here don't represent the people I have met face to face. Thank goodness.

 

I just feel a bit bitten by enthusiastically sharing this thread with a large group of women who shoot , are not concerned about Coach holsters , only to have them come here and see it degrade into men arguing with each other and some painting all women with a very broad stroke. The response was pretty much along the lines of " what a bunch of old fashioned a holes " .

 

So , topic over. These women in the group belong to various active FB groups for firearms owners and you honestly see none of this there. Well , some arguing when a hot topic comes up , but nothing along the lines of this.Shoes ? Really ?

 

It's not about the shoes.  It was brought up as a point to illustrate that the thinking that women who where here are not participating solely because of the perceived "a-holes" on here irritate them enough not to bother and that that is the reason behind it.  That we should focus on making it politically correct for women to come here.  I don't agree.   If you are not on here, it is because it doesn't interest you. In fact, I think that part of it is because you don't like the new sales area, which isn't really new anymore.  You bring and take what you want from this forum.  Just as I do.  I was illustrating tongue-and-cheek that it is not about doing that.. catering to Women's interests, etc.  that it is a forum about gun culture in NJ.  I was also playing on the fact that it is not that important to the forum to find ways to entice you to visit, what is important is focusing on our rights.... saving them.  There are plenty of liberally-oriented people on here that are hurting and undermining the gun culture by being complex individuals that can decompartmentalize and "support" the right to bear arms and yet create policies that take away jobs. That believe in the brain-washing common core in our schools but enjoy shooting their Sig on the weekends.  That view women in such away that they feel that they have to make a feel-good, female friendly GUN FORUM to draw women in.  I disagree.  There is plenty of room for you here, Sandy, if you have the time and you. 

 

So, what is it that is so offensive?  I am not talking about this thread and the Vera range bag.  I am talking about before this thread?  ...Those with strong political views being vocal?   The cop haters?   The progressives (imagine that on a gun forum), or what? 

[High Exposure 5,664]

From what I've read here.... there is no shortage of women on NJGF.

Well played

 

I know a few female shooters. They are dedicated to the cause, CCW wherever they can, train harder than me, are excellent shooters, are outstanding students, have no ego, always have their thinking caps on, and are generally my favorite folks to shoot with.

 

Unlike most men, who generally drop 50 IQ points when you put a gun in their hands, women don't change when armed. They keep the same levelheaded and alert frame of mind they always have. No unnecessary silliness, no macho bullshit. They are brutally honest with themselves and take criticism well, but aren't afraid to tell you to frak off if they think you are BSing them.

 

I think we do women shooters a disservice by have "women only" classes, but I see the need - a perfect example of which is this very thread. It makes me sad....

 

Women are perfectly capable of shooting in any class or comp I have ever been to from basic to advanced. I know a few women I would rather go to war with than most of the men I know. It's the men that seem to have issues with the concept, again, much like this very thread. They get hit on, dismissed as less capable, then the men start showing off or even worse - try to coach the "poor inexperienced little girl" instead of a fellow shooter. When the unasked for offer for help gets turned down then the fashion/cooking/sewing/whatever other mysoginistic crap comments come out and that's it. It's total bullshit and we are all worse off for it.

 

I wish more women would post here, but I understand completely why they don't.

[Gunsrlegal 140]

The whole point is that this is ridiculous. You weren't able to find enough good in this forum? I am not saying women are so shallow that they are into shoes... So, what would make the forum more appealing to you? Change those avatars? No politics? No disagreements? I am saying that those that think they can make it more women-friendly on here are ridiculous in trying to do that to bring you all on board. That is the community-organizing mentality that is hurting us all. If I don't want the opinions of those that are on here, I don't read their posts. If I want to learn about handguns, I go to the handgun section. I'm not worried that Toad will say something that offends me, or that Underdog might make a major mistake and alienate all the women that come to the forum.

You missed my whole point. I don't give a rat's ass about avatars. I expect disagreements. Political discussion is great in the proper forum. It's small-minded "my opinion is the only right opinion" posters who amused me to the point of embarrassment.

 

When I want intelligent discussion I turn to people who I respect. Is there enough good here? Probably. Unfortunately, the good often gets lost and buried under ongoing prattle.

 

What would make NJGF more interesting to me (and probably many others)? Less childlike behavior would be a good start. But that's just my opinion, which means very little because as before, I'm out of here. I don't have the time, patience, or desire to read through the drivel to find the good posts.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I think we do women shooters a disservice by have "women only" classes, but I see the need - a perfect example of which is this very thread. It makes me sad....

 

Some women prefer "women only" classes/instructors for a number of reasons. I took my mom to Heritage Guild a few months ago for the 1st time. As it happens, it was on a Tues., where they had the "Handgun 101 for women only" class. The instructor was a woman, although some of the HG RSOs helped out with the live fire portion of the class.  No men were allowed to listen to the lecture or stand in the port area during the live fire portion. I had to wait in the lounge area for her.

 

Mom loved it. She insists that when I bring my 14 y/o nephew there to take his training, I use the same female instructor.    I get the sense that she was just more comfortable with a female instructor, and accepting "instructional feedback" from a female instructor. Not that she needed much. I understand from the RSO's that assisted that Mom "aced" the course.

 

Anyway,  as stated earlier in the thread, I will be taking my niece training soon as well. We'll see how she does with me as her mentor (she'll be 18 in about a month). I may not do HG because of the "consent" issue I mentioned earlier. We'll see.

[Old School 611]

I'm not insulted , Im embarrassed I recommended the forum. You are right that some women would prefer more typical feminine topics than how to sight in your rifle , but you are wrong in assuming that women who ARE interested in talking firearms won't mind the the type of stuff that is in this thread. If you don't want women here , that is fine. It really is.It is too bad since I know quite a few skilled women shooters who love to talk shop but they were all kind of put off by the bickering and generalizations in this thread. You do realize women were put off by the level of bickering. Think about that for a minute guys.

 

Honestly , I don't even know why I care since I have had nothing butpositive experiences within the shooting community here. So obviously the few here don't represent the people I have met face to face. Thank goodness.

 

I just feel a bit bitten by enthusiastically sharing this thread with a large group of women who shoot , are not concerned about Coach holsters , only to have them come here and see it degrade into men arguing with each other and some painting all women with a very broad stroke. The response was pretty much along the lines of " what a bunch of old fashioned a holes " .

 

So , topic over. These women in the group belong to various active FB groups for firearms owners and you honestly see none of this there. Well , some arguing when a hot topic comes up , but nothing along the lines of this.Shoes ? Really ?

 

Good morning!!!!  This is not Facebook!!!   Hello!!!

[Sandy 44]

It's not about the shoes.  It was brought up as a point to illustrate that the thinking that women who where here are not participating solely because of the perceived "a-holes" on here irritate them enough not to bother is the reason behind it.  That we should focus on making it politically correct for women to come here.  I don't agree.  Its not.  If you are not on here, it is because it doesn't interest you.  You bring and take what youS want from this forum.  I was illustrating tongue-and-cheek that it is not about doing that.. catering to Women's interests, etc.  that it is a forum.  I was also playing on the fact that it is not that important to the forum, what is important is focusing on our rights.... saving them.  There are plenty of liberally-oriented people on here that are hurting and undermining the gun culture by being complex individuals that can decompartmentalize the right to bear arms and yet create policies that take away jobs. That believe in the brain-washing common core but enjoy shooting their Sig on the weekends.  That insult women enough to feel they have to make a feel-good, female friendly GUN FORUM to draw them in and get their perspective.  I disagree.  There is plenty of room for you here, Sandy, if you have the time and you wade through the chafe. 

 

So, what is it that is so offensive?  I am not talking about this thread and the Vera range bag.  I am talking about before this thread?  ...Those with strong political views being vocal?   The cop haters?   The progressives (imagine that on a gun forum), or what? 

The only time I have found anything on this forum to be non women friendly it is , ironically , this thread here and the responses it got.

 

The only people arguing over whether or not to make the forum more women friendly are the men. I never suggested it , and I do not ever recall ANY woman ever suggesting it here . I dont want any women oriented topics here , just firearms and political issues that pertain to our freedom. 

 

I know there is room here for me, was not looking for or needing any validation . I have belonged to this forum for almost 3 years. I stopped posting in forums period because they seem to attract people with nothing better to do than argue . Where as more mobile friendly info sharing like social media seems to stick more to the point.

 

If I never even bothered to hop in and voice my distaste for the direction the thread was going , it still would have gone on and on with arguing without even one single female contributing in the convo.

 

I think there are not a lot of women shooters posting here because it is not known to them. I tried to introduce my group to the forum and we were discussing looking into being a sponsor . I doubt that is going to happen at this point ..because of what they read in this thread. Not because the forum needed tweaking to be more woman friendly ..it just did not need to be unfriendly on the first post they read. My bad for linking it . 

[Sandy 44]

High Exposure - I agree with you about women only classes. I realize that they have value as an introduction for women who may feel intimidated or embarrassed , but beyond that I think coed training is way more valuable and realistic. The same goes for martial arts. We have women's seminars but really encourage them to go coed once they get acclimated. I just makes more sense.

[Underdog 1,593]

The only time I have found anything on this forum to be non women friendly it is , ironically , this thread here and the responses it got.

 

The only people arguing over whether or not to make the forum more women friendly are the men. I never suggested it , and I do not ever recall ANY woman ever suggesting it here . I dont want any women oriented topics here , just firearms and political issues that pertain to our freedom. 

 

I know there is room here for me, was not looking for or needing any validation . I have belonged to this forum for almost 3 years. I stopped posting in forums period because they seem to attract people with nothing better to do than argue . Where as more mobile friendly info sharing like social media seems to stick more to the point.

 

If I never even bothered to hop in and voice my distaste for the direction the thread was going , it still would have gone on and on with arguing without even one single female contributing in the convo.

 

I think there are not a lot of women shooters posting here because it is not known to them. I tried to introduce my group to the forum and we were discussing looking into being a sponsor . I doubt that is going to happen at this point ..because of what they read in this thread. Not because the forum needed tweaking to be more woman friendly ..it just did not need to be unfriendly on the first post they read. My bad for linking it . 

 

Then you really have not gotten the whole point of some of the comments in this thread and you are misinterpreting them.  Maybe they are unclear or poorly written. I didn't agree with where this thread was going early on.  I have the utmost respect for women.  I have brought my wife and her friends to the range and my two nieces, one graduating from Princeton next year. 

[5th4x4 0]

There ya go Pizza Bob! 

The women are posting here now.

 

Ya gotta love a happy ending : )

[Underdog 1,593]

I will flat out state that I don't go on here much anymore because there are too many progressive-minded people on here that either spin subtly or don't have a clue, and because I don't like the the format of the marketing area.  I am bored with aggravating the forum police, and well, frankly, there are no strong conservative women's opinions on here.  I have often wondered which aftermarket sights the women prefer.  I like TruGlo TFO sights, myself.  And, I really do think a Vera Bradley concealed carry case would be awesome. 

[Old School 611]

The only time I have found anything on this forum to be non women friendly it is , ironically , this thread here and the responses it got.

 

The only people arguing over whether or not to make the forum more women friendly are the men. I never suggested it , and I do not ever recall ANY woman ever suggesting it here . I dont want any women oriented topics here , just firearms and political issues that pertain to our freedom. 

 

I know there is room here for me, was not looking for or needing any validation . I have belonged to this forum for almost 3 years. I stopped posting in forums period because they seem to attract people with nothing better to do than argue . Where as more mobile friendly info sharing like social media seems to stick more to the point.

 

If I never even bothered to hop in and voice my distaste for the direction the thread was going , it still would have gone on and on with arguing without even one single female contributing in the convo.

 

I think there are not a lot of women shooters posting here because it is not known to them. I tried to introduce my group to the forum and we were discussing looking into being a sponsor . I doubt that is going to happen at this point ..because of what they read in this thread. Not because the forum needed tweaking to be more woman friendly ..it just did not need to be unfriendly on the first post they read. My bad for linking it . 

 

I am the ULTIMATE believer in gender equality so I must treat you not as lady but as I would anyone else on this forum.

 

#1 you're eloquent!

 

#2 you're a "cry baby"

[Sandy 44]

I will flat out state that I don't go on here much anymore because there are too many progressive-minded people on here that either spin subtly or don't have a clue, and because I don't like the the format of the marketing area.  I am bored with aggravating the forum police, and well, frankly, there are no strong conservative women's opinions on here.  I have often wondered which aftermarket sights the women prefer.  I like TruGlo TFO sights, myself.  And, I really do think a Vera Bradley concealed carry case would be awesome. 

I prefer the Hi Viz sights with a red front and green backs. A lot of people with older eyes seem to appreciate the contrast between the front and rear sights.  I actually do not know Vera Bradley ...but I generally stay away from any pricey branding or give aways as to what is in my bag . My camera bag does not say it is a camera bag , and my range bag is a hiking back pack  

[Underdog 1,593]

Thank you for sharing.  I will have to check out those sights.  My camera bag is a diaper bag from LL Bean, actually a backpack.  They don't make them anymore.  I can carry everything except my 70-200 lens.  My range bag is something from Lowes. 

[Old School 611]

Thank you for sharing.  I will have to check out those sights.  My camera bag is a diaper bag from LL Bean, actually a backpack.  They don't make them anymore.  I can carry everything except my 70-200 lens.  My range bag is something from Lowes. 

 

Backpacks are nice for range bags because they are nondescript.  Just be careful that they are adequately padded.

 

+1 for the Hi-Viz sights.  For indoors a must!

[Sandy 44]

Thank you for sharing.  I will have to check out those sights.  My camera bag is a diaper bag from LL Bean, actually a backpack.  They don't make them anymore.  I can carry everything except my 70-200 lens.  My range bag is something from Lowes. 

 I actually got a camera bag from Andy here ..it actually fits the 70-200 comfortably , along with a spare body and all other lenses/speedlights.

[Sandy 44]

Thank you for sharing.  I will have to check out those sights.  My camera bag is a diaper bag from LL Bean, actually a backpack.  They don't make them anymore.  I can carry everything except my 70-200 lens.  My range bag is something from Lowes. 

And if you want to try the Hi Viz sights shoot me a PM and I can meet you at the GFH range.

[seamusSU 0]

Backpacks are nice for range bags because they are nondescript. Just be careful that they are adequately padded.

 

Just look for a backpack with a built on laptop sleeve. I use one and it's perfect

 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

 

[Golf battery 1,223]

Now i was at sjsc range last week and i had a good conversation with a young lady that was at the pistol range. We talked about gun laws Self defense shooting and a few other things. I tried to convince her not to be shy about idpa or uspsa. She said she knew of the forum and was a dabbler here. She has not registered yet. I wish she would. She could add some insight. We talked about the glocks she had and other pistols. I believe her name was krista ? Also talked about mental health checks and other stuff. So if youre out there krista? Nows the time for us to hear from you.

[Gunsrlegal 140]

First, I would like to apologize for certain parts of my earlier posts. I should not have painted NJGF with a wide brush---people vary online just as they do in "real life." I have a lot of respect for many members, some of whom I am proud to call friends.

 

+1 for using a laptop backpack as a range bag. Some of the newer backpacks are made of very lightweight materials, which sounds good, but the bag tends to sag if you're carrying ammo. The "old fashioned" laptop backpacks seem to work best, at least IMHO.

[vladtepes 1,060]

That is complete nonsense. It is so bad, it almost hurts. There are a lot of liberal gun owners, serious gun owners at that. I know some personally. They just happen to NOT tell you they are liberal because they are worried that they will be judged as mentally defective people, as you have just done.

 

If you want more inclusion, stop repeating stereotypes, stop dividing the entire world as right or left, conservative or liberal, with no interest crossover. Humans are far more complex that then that, and if you don't like being stereotyped the first step is to stop doing it to others.

 

 

 

 

FFS, and you wonder why women would be insulted to hang out here.

 

 

[off topic] just thought I would throw this out there since it came up.. when it comes to social issues... gay marriage... legalization of marijuana.. and so on I tend to be VERY liberal.. [/off topic}

[HBecwithFn7 296]

+1 for using a laptop backpack as a range bag. Some of the newer backpacks are made of very lightweight materials, which sounds good, but the bag tends to sag if you're carrying ammo. The "old fashioned" laptop backpacks seem to work best, at least IMHO.

 

That, and I'd prefer having a bag that doesn't blatantly advertise what might be in it. (i.e., BARETTA, SIG-SAUER, GLOCK, etc. etc.) all over it....

[remixer 1,645]

What is wrong with a coach range bag?  I personally would love to see one.

 

It would mean Shooting sports are being accepted by main stream companies.
 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Well, this certainly illustrates the law of unintended consequences. A thread that was intended to open people’s minds to making the firearm community more inclusive has had the polar opposite effect. Instead of starting where we were, and moving forward, we now find ourselves back at square one.

 

I want to thank those that understood the intent of the thread and desperately attempted to take the blinders off those whose every waking thought is motivated by a narrowly defined view of the world, through a wholly political mindset. One that has no room for inclusiveness of anybody’s views that don’t mirror their own.

 

Instead of an opportunity to grow our ranks, we have alienated the very people we sought to include. We are our own worst enemy. If we are divisive within our own community, how can we ever hope to present a unified face to our opponents? If we can’t be tolerant of people who have different views than our own, but share our love of firearms and shooting, how can we ever hope to overcome the political machine, made up of people from all walks of life, that confronts and confounds us at every turn?

 

Sandy, I want to apologize for dragging you into this morass of stupidity. You were my shining example of what we might expect of other women shooters swelling our ranks. Do any of you realize how effective Sandy was when she testified in front of the Assembly Law & Public Safety Committee last year with her 6 year old daughter at her side? Multiply that effectiveness a hundredfold if we were to become more tolerant and inclusive of people who may not share our views on other subjects, but whose love of firearms and shooting has motivated them to stand up and be counted.

 

I want to apologize to the forum at large for creating the very thing I was seeking to abolish and moving us a large step backward in the process. But perhaps the silver lining in this very dark cloud is that at least now we know where we stand. Until we can open our minds to a politically active community based on the one love we all share, while ignoring all other issues, there is no hope for a cohesive firearms community in NJ, or the country.

 

I respectfully ask that a moderator close this thread. It has done enough damage.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Jon 264]

Such a shame, Bob. This had great potential. To any women, minorities, homosexuals, progressives, or any other group that I am personally blind to who come across this thread, do not let the few bad apples here spoil it for you. I feel that the core group of people who post here, specifically those who get together from time to time, are great people who would love for nothing more than to include you.